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post #9181 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
What, no grills on the speakers when the nephew is loose?

I also appreciate the protection that the waveguide offers in addition to it's intended purpose. Oddly enough, the grills are on my R series by default. I can (and do) remove them with one hand when it's just me listening to music. For "general use" (TV watching), the grills are ON. I understand the on-off thing is more of a chore with "mechanically attached" grills.

Glad for you that you got yer groove back.
Me too! It was the second big project I tackled after getting our bedroom finished. Priorities messed up, I know.

In all honesty, I prefer the look grills off. And it's easier to wipe them down with a cloth after then deal with grubby prints on the grill material. Plus they're buried somewhere in the storage room.

I was at my local brick and mortar store recently picking something up, went into they're KEF room where the R's are on display. I said to myself, "one day." When we redo the house and make one of the rooms a formal dinning room or sitting room, I'm thinking a set of LS50's or R100/300's would be great! Around here, the LS50 has already been given the WAF seal of approval.
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post #9182 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 10:37 AM
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Whereas the grill cover of my rosewood R600C is quite handsome, that of the 204/2C is much less so. I may be tempted to go coverless. Our 75 pound American Field Lab has shown no interest in any of the speakers, so it might be safe. Wonder about dust, though.

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post #9183 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by callas01 View Post
My limited experience with the LS50 and the Q series, for mostly HT use I'd go for the Q series as they'll play louder and have more output, esp in your large-ish room, where I'm sure you're going to want to push the volume for a more realistic HT experience. The LS50 has a low sensitivity and the higher sensitivity of the Q's and added output of the extra woofers will be better for a better HT experienced JMO.
I have dual subwoofers so the low end would be no problem. I am running Rotel amp 200w per channel.
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post #9184 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
Whereas the grill cover of my rosewood R600C is quite handsome, that of the 204/2C is much less so. I may be tempted to go coverless. Our 75 pound American Field Lab has shown no interest in any of the speakers, so it might be safe. Wonder about dust, though.

db
I have thought about that. I use a Swiffer duster on mine. I suppose if I had to around the tweeter, I could use some duster in a can. Just have to use some caution.

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post #9185 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I can only go by what my son said to me when I gave him a pair of Q500's to "upgrade" from his Q300 pair. He said that not only he, but his fiancé commented unsolicited that "the new speakers sound so much cleaner." Her words, and she's no audiophile. They've got a gargantuan PB2000 sitting there next to the Q500's. It's a remarkable step up from the diminutive Q100. I listened and really think the larger cabinet does a good job of letting the Uni-Q do its job easier.

I've heard the Q900 and people who own them love them. I didn't, and probably for the same reason my dealer didn't stock them or the Q700 until they went on sale so cheap. When I'd asked them a year ago why they had only the two bookshelf and the Q500 floorstander, the salesman said the ABR's on the larger ones seemed to add too much unwanted reverb (flatulence was the word he used) as compared to the tighter Q500. The larger ABR's can, for some ears, deliver deeper bass but for others it's tough on the decay of bass, making it seem less "tight and punchy" as the Q500 can do.
Thanks for your input. The Q500 sounds like a good bet. I'm thinking about getting those in front with a Q200 center. For my rears, I want to get a pair of Q100s, but in our living room, there's no good place to put the rear left. It would be awkwardly placed near a walkway. Does anyone have experience with the in-wall Ci series? I'm wondering if the 5.25" Ci130QS would compare well to the Q100s.
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post #9186 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HVAC Guru View Post
Me too! It was the second big project I tackled after getting our bedroom finished. Priorities messed up, I know.

In all honesty, I prefer the look grills off. And it's easier to wipe them down with a cloth after then deal with grubby prints on the grill material. Plus they're buried somewhere in the storage room.

I was at my local brick and mortar store recently picking something up, went into they're KEF room where the R's are on display. I said to myself, "one day." When we redo the house and make one of the rooms a formal dinning room or sitting room, I'm thinking a set of LS50's or R100/300's would be great! Around here, the LS50 has already been given the WAF seal of approval.
I love my R's for all-around use in my 5.1 system, but if I were setting up for 2 channel music I'd have the new LS50 active speakers. One pair of those, a Bluesound Node and a good turntable = heaven.
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post #9187 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshock View Post
Thanks for your input. The Q500 sounds like a good bet. I'm thinking about getting those in front with a Q200 center. For my rears, I want to get a pair of Q100s, but in our living room, there's no good place to put the rear left. It would be awkwardly placed near a walkway. Does anyone have experience with the in-wall Ci series? I'm wondering if the 5.25" Ci130QS would compare well to the Q100s.
My experience with the in-wall or in-ceiling speakers is limited, but I would offer that you might be better to consider the Ci160QS instead. It's really closer in actual performance in a wall to the Q100 in its cabinet.

How about a sketch of the room so we can understand the dilemma?

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post #9188 of 10734 Old 10-17-2016, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by seiji View Post
I have dual subwoofers so the low end would be no problem. I am running Rotel amp 200w per channel.
I don't mean output by extension, I'm saying a larger wall of sound, bigger speakers, more drivers, larger wall of sound. Towers can be pushed harder and allow you to play louder also. IME

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post #9189 of 10734 Old 10-18-2016, 07:02 AM
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Hi All,

I currently have a 5.1 system (denon x2200w, klipsch r-25c, klipsch r-24F, klipsch r15m, klipsch r112sw) setup in my medium sized dedicated HT but wanted to make it a 7.1 setup. I've been looking around for 2 additional surround speakers and saw that KEF had a sale on their q100s. Was wondering how the q100s were and would they be better as rear surrounds (currently my klipsch 15m) or side surrounds - or if it does not really matter. Or would it be more wise to jump to the q300s...any info would be appreciated!
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post #9190 of 10734 Old 10-18-2016, 07:09 AM
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My cousin had the exact same front speakers and still has the center and R-14M surrounds...with his new PSB Imagine T s. They blend OK but he's now on a mission to get all PSB.

For you the Q100 would be about all you need, but for $100 more to jump up would be even better. For kicks, put the Q300 where the R-24F is now and listen to them for 2.1 stereo. I think you'll soon be plotting how to replace the R-24F with a pair of Q500.
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post #9191 of 10734 Old 10-18-2016, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
My cousin had the exact same front speakers and still has the center and R-14M surrounds...with his new PSB Imagine T s. They blend OK but he's now on a mission to get all PSB.

For you the Q100 would be about all you need, but for $100 more to jump up would be even better. For kicks, put the Q300 where the R-24F is now and listen to them for 2.1 stereo. I think you'll soon be plotting how to replace the R-24F with a pair of Q500.
I agree! The kef will not get as loud but will sound so much better.

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post #9192 of 10734 Old 10-18-2016, 10:07 PM
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Got the Q100s and powering them with an Insignia Stereo receiver. I'm not impressed. I own HD600s and these speakers are not blowing me away. How do I know they're functioning correctly?
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post #9193 of 10734 Old 10-19-2016, 05:17 AM
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I'm assuming you have Sennheiser HD600 headphones. Those are a high quality full-range headphone and will produce a range of frequencies far beyond what ANY (not just Q100) bookshelf speakers can produce. It's just not a fair fight.

Have you removed the port plug for a little more bass response? Assuming you have, your seating position and the physical location of the speakers, the room acoustics and whether or not you are using a subwoofer all play a part in how your speakers sound. I'm sure they are working correctly, it is probably a matter of those conditions which could afford getting the most out of them. How about a photo of the installation and a sketch of dimensions? What kind of space is it, and what kind of floors, walls and furnishings are there to affect sound?

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post #9194 of 10734 Old 10-19-2016, 07:07 AM
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Thanks all for your replies so far. I ended up getting a like-new pair of Q2ds for side wides (still deciding on rear wide). However, I want to make these bipole instead of dipole and I believe it's pretty easy.

Here is the left driver:


Right Driver:


Diagram (sorta):


Both speakers are identically wired (so there's no "Left" and "Right" Q2ds).

This is how the crossover is wired (I'm ignoring the input and bottom driver):
MF1- Red (Stripe)
MF1+ Red
HF1+ Blue

MF2- Green (Stripe)
MF2+ Green
HF2+ Yellow
It looks like HF1- and HF2- (Black) are interconnected.

It is a bit confusing but as far as I know, I simple have to swap the cables in the Left "L" driver:
1. Swap MF- and MF+: Red (Stripe) to MF+, Red to MF-
2. Swap HF- and HF+: Black to HF+, Blue to HF-

Is that correct?
No one has any input? I actually contacted KEF but I received the expected response to not modify the speakers since the "crossovers are designed for dipole". Designed or WIRED? The only confusing part is the interconnect between the tweeters. That's really puzzling.
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post #9195 of 10734 Old 10-19-2016, 07:27 AM
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I would like to help you but just don't know enough about the circuitry to be a reliable source.

The place to go with your question might be the DIY section here or over on Audioholics where there's a number of good engineers willing to help.

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post #9196 of 10734 Old 10-19-2016, 11:32 AM
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Ok Looks like I might have got mine wrong as swapped wires on HF one side and Mid the other!

If Monitor Audio can put in a switch for Dipole/ Bipole operation don't see why not on Kef. The problem is on the later iq8ds which is 2 way and feeds different roll off to each mid/bass unit so one is mid only and the other is mid/bass.

So pics of xover of internet to see what went where, and figuring the phasing of the HF with the black wire.






I seem to remember re-soldering the connections on the Xover board as the tags were different sizes on the speakers (Xover accessed by removing bass unit)

HF first just swap Blue from + to - and Black from + to - That puts both in phase.

MF Should be ok to swap Red + to - and Red/Blk from - to + (I swapped the greens the other side ! will have to redo!)
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post #9197 of 10734 Old 10-19-2016, 04:36 PM
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Nice work, from the looks of it! Let us know how it sounds once you get the speakers back up & running.

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post #9198 of 10734 Old 10-19-2016, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by aviaction View Post
Ok Looks like I might have got mine wrong as swapped wires on HF one side and Mid the other!

If Monitor Audio can put in a switch for Dipole/ Bipole operation don't see why not on Kef. The problem is on the later iq8ds which is 2 way and feeds different roll off to each mid/bass unit so one is mid only and the other is mid/bass.

So pics of xover of internet to see what went where, and figuring the phasing of the HF with the black wire.

I seem to remember re-soldering the connections on the Xover board as the tags were different sizes on the speakers (Xover accessed by removing bass unit)

HF first just swap Blue from + to - and Black from + to - That puts both in phase.

MF Should be ok to swap Red + to - and Red/Blk from - to + (I swapped the greens the other side ! will have to redo!)
Thank you for the response! The tags are different but I'm more comfortable with soldering the tags itself I think

Do I need to make this change on both left/right drivers, or just on one (left driver)? Did you solder the 1/2 crossover?

EDIT: After rereading your reply, it seems you simply swapped the L drivers only. You did it on the crossover, whereas I am planning to do this on the speaker itself. I'll try this tomorrow and post results tomorrow!

Last edited by exm; 10-20-2016 at 04:48 PM.
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post #9199 of 10734 Old 10-20-2016, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
My experience with the in-wall or in-ceiling speakers is limited, but I would offer that you might be better to consider the Ci160QS instead. It's really closer in actual performance in a wall to the Q100 in its cabinet.

How about a sketch of the room so we can understand the dilemma?
Sounds like bookshelves in the rear are out for me, wife approval factor of 0. My tears of sadness did nothing to change her mind. So the Ci160QS more closely match the Q100 you say? What makes it a better match than the Ci130QS if you don't mind? The Ci130 seems to have more similar specs, like the 5.25" driver, sensitivity, frequency response, etc.
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post #9200 of 10734 Old 10-20-2016, 05:00 PM
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I had bought 4 of the Ci200QR back around the beginning of the year. They are stated to be an 8"/200mm driver. Well, I think they're more optimistic with measurements of the ceiling/wall mount speakers than they are the traditional cabinet style. When I measured, the driver proved to be far closer to being a 6-1/2" rather than 8", as I suspected. I think the rather wide hard plastic surround is being considered part of the dimension, and expect they do the same with the smaller ones.

Whatever you like. I'd rather go up one and perhaps have to trim the settings back a little than be frustrated that I can't get enough out of it.

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post #9201 of 10734 Old 10-21-2016, 01:51 AM
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I think Bipole work better with todays sound formats. Especially as now gone Atmos.
Also setup up progs don't detect the out of phase units.
Will have to revisit mine to rectify speaker phasing and work out which side is best to change, so correct phase compared to other kefs.
Whether this can be made switchable as on Monitor Audio surrounds.

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post #9202 of 10734 Old 10-21-2016, 11:01 AM
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Done!

Here's the before:



And here's the after:


It works great! Here are a few notes:
1. I've done this only on 1 driver: the "1" (Left) one
2. The original cabling has a large and small tag. I simply clipped the large tag on the small connector (no soldering necessary) and soldered the small tag on the large connector. Swapped Red/Strip and Red as well as blue and black.

Hope this helps anyone who wants to do this in the future. The Q2ds are very nice looking and sounding speakers, and the LF driver at the bottom is unique.
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post #9203 of 10734 Old 10-21-2016, 01:16 PM
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Well getting ready to try Atmos in my home for the first time. I hope these KEF Atmos modules work. I really wasn't sure about putting these on my Reference 1 but I think I will adjust providing they work. Got the LS50 for rears yesterday and I am waiting for my JL Audio sub delivery any minute and I can get cracking on set-up.

If I get half of the Atmos experience in home I had at audition I will be thrilled.

Too bad not a walnut finish on the module but it looks okay I think..

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post #9204 of 10734 Old 10-21-2016, 04:06 PM
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How high is your ceiling and how far from the speakers will you sit? The R50 modules were (technically speaking) designed to be used atop the floorstanding R series. Your stands appear to be shorter than even my R500, but angles are everything. As long as the triangulation puts the reflected sound where you need it, you should be happy. Congrats on all the new KEF speakers!

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post #9205 of 10734 Old 10-22-2016, 07:22 PM
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A Reference 204/2C was installed this afternoon to replace my R600C. The R600C is a very nice speaker, but the 204/2C is a spectacular speaker. It is everything I had hoped it would be, so transparent that you would not guess you're listening to three speakers, just a continuous seamless soundstage with the Reference 107/2s. I've played a variety of music: jazz, baroque, large orchestrations, as well as movies, and in every case, the sound has been superb. The intelligibility of dialog is beyond reproach.

The speaker was as the seller described: excellent, in fact it's like new. A major surprise is how well the ISO-Acoustic L8R430 stand supports the large speaker. It's not at all unstable. Nevertheless, I plan to add a second stand to distribute support.

db
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post #9206 of 10734 Old 10-22-2016, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
A Reference 204/2C was installed this afternoon to replace my R600C. The R600C is a very nice speaker, but the 204/2C is a spectacular speaker. It is everything I had hoped it would be, so transparent that you would not guess you're listening to three speakers, just a continuous seamless soundstage with the Reference 107/2s. I've played a variety of music: jazz, baroque, large orchestrations, as well as movies, and in every case, the sound has been superb. The intelligibility of dialog is beyond reproach.

The speaker was as the seller described: excellent, in fact it's like new. A major surprise is how well the ISO-Acoustic L8R430 stand supports the large speaker. It's not at all unstable. Nevertheless, I plan to add a second stand to distribute support.

db
Glad that worked out. Now on the lookout for 207/2s?
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post #9207 of 10734 Old 10-23-2016, 02:27 AM
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Glad that worked out. Now on the lookout for 207/2s?
I think I'll stick with the 107/2s. We recently replaced our aging projector with a new HW45ES, twice the brightness and much greater contrast. I played bits of Casino Royale tonight. The combination of audio and video is striking. LCR integration seems perfect, and with a 100" screen I'm a happy camper.

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post #9208 of 10734 Old 10-23-2016, 04:14 AM
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Ok reviewed Mods on Kef Q2DS today.
Reverted back to original wiring on Xover.
Then changed wires on Speaker unit for Mid and HF
I swapped Green with Green/Black on MF and Yellow with Black on HF.
I remembered the reason I swapped green originally is due to phasing of the speaker.
So have rewired and checked absolute phase and this is 100% correct. (using Test CD)

I would suggest swapping connections on the other speaker and reverting the side you have done because if you just swap at speaker terminals the bass unit will be out of phase.
Hope this helps


Infocus SP8600 DLP, Yamaha RX A3040 + Roksan KMA2/3 (fronts), Yamaha BD S1067 Blu Ray, Toshiba ET-35 HD, Kef 203/1 Main, 202C Center, Q2DS Surround, HTS 2001 Rear Surround and FP, RP, 2x Kenwood SW-X1 12" Subs fitted DLS DS3004BP plate amps.
Vinyl - Technics SL1210, Goldring 1020GX, Rotel RQ870BX
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post #9209 of 10734 Old 10-23-2016, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
A Reference 204/2C was installed this afternoon to replace my R600C. The R600C is a very nice speaker, but the 204/2C is a spectacular speaker. It is everything I had hoped it would be, so transparent that you would not guess you're listening to three speakers, just a continuous seamless soundstage with the Reference 107/2s. I've played a variety of music: jazz, baroque, large orchestrations, as well as movies, and in every case, the sound has been superb. The intelligibility of dialog is beyond reproach.

The speaker was as the seller described: excellent, in fact it's like new. A major surprise is how well the ISO-Acoustic L8R430 stand supports the large speaker. It's not at all unstable. Nevertheless, I plan to add a second stand to distribute support.

db
I'm using the same center with older Reference 4s. Absolutely love the 204/2C. Would love to upgrade the Ref 4s, but I really can't seem to justify spending the $$$ on absolutely awesome speakers (the Ref 4 that is).
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post #9210 of 10734 Old 10-23-2016, 04:07 PM
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Ok reviewed Mods on Kef Q2DS today.
Reverted back to original wiring on Xover.
Then changed wires on Speaker unit for Mid and HF
I swapped Green with Green/Black on MF and Yellow with Black on HF.
I remembered the reason I swapped green originally is due to phasing of the speaker.
So have rewired and checked absolute phase and this is 100% correct. (using Test CD)

I would suggest swapping connections on the other speaker and reverting the side you have done because if you just swap at speaker terminals the bass unit will be out of phase.
Hope this helps

Interesting. So you basically swapped the cables for the "2" drivers instead? I listened to the speakers and it sounds great, but I haven't "tested" it. I guess technically my speakers are all out of phase?

When you mention "bass speaker", you're referring to the downfiring speaker?
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