KEF Owners Thread - Page 314 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #9391 of 9420 Old 11-28-2016, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
They're fine for Q100's! I know people but much larger and heavier speakers on them, so don't worry. If 10k trusts them with a pair of $1500 speakers that are bigger, you can trust them with Q100's that weigh less and cost 1/4 as much.
thanks ken...
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post #9392 of 9420 Old 11-28-2016, 03:55 PM
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How would the CI160ER match with Q100 (fronts and surrounds) as Atmos speakers?
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post #9393 of 9420 Old 11-28-2016, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
I imagine some folks writing reviews on Amazon.com may be accustomed to muddy speakers! The "Tangerine Waveguide" on the KEF tweeters does wonders for taming any hint of brightness and helps with off-axis dispersion a good bit.

How do you like them?
They are very smooth, but I think I spoke too soon, they may be giving me some ear fatigue listening off angle. Just to demo until I get stands, I placed them on a table to the left of my computer desk. Not sure how to explain, but the tweeter does some weird things to my ears that way....hopefully it gets better with time...I have about 20 hours. They aren't too harsh on my ears listening in front.

Also, are the mount hooks on the back meant for mounting or just to secure while sitting on a stand? When I pick them up by the hook, the cabinet protests with some sound under stress.

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post #9394 of 9420 Old 11-28-2016, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tushar Chandra View Post
Thanks for the recommendations, Ken!

The room is 36 x 18, however it is a combined living/dining room so we don't use more than 1/2 of it for listening to music/home theater. I'm guessing this is at the borderline between a reference 1 and a 3. What do you think?

While we will be using it as a home theater system as well, I'm in 2 minds regarding the center channel. So perhaps I will start with a 2.1 setup and then later decide if I need to go to 3.1.
As an owner of the Ref 1 with 4C center I'm not sure about the overwhelmed comment. That's not a true statement. The 2C is the match to the REF 1s. The 4C is just an awesome center and I would pick it first if funds permitted.

The 4C does not overwhelm the 1s in sound or looks (looks IMO). It is the most important speaker in a surround set-up.

I could have went REF 3 and 2C or REF 1 and 4C. I choose the later for the larger center. It has been an awesome experience with the center and a good sub.

You also don't need a 16 inch sub or nothing with these speakers. My room is quite not as large as yours (open concept-kitchen, dining and living)That's just not true. I'm using JL Audio Fathom 12 with these speakers and its great in a pretty good sized space. Prior was a REL.

I'm all for 2.1 but I hate phantom speakers personally and you have two world class centers at your fingertips. Once you have experienced them you will probably not want to go back to phantom.

Good Luck. Sounds your moving down a great path.

Rick

Last edited by Mr.SoftDome; 11-28-2016 at 08:42 PM.
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post #9395 of 9420 Old 11-28-2016, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by conan481 View Post
How would the CI160ER match with Q100 (fronts and surrounds) as Atmos speakers?
They'll be fine. Of course the Ci160QR might be better as they're engineered to match the Q series, but being ceiling speakers I doubt you'll have any problem at all.

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post #9396 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 03:27 AM
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About to pull the trigger on KEF R300 !! (Rosewood )

Still some part of the mind goes towards more costly R500... and less costly LS50.

Raise your hands to support me to pick the middle one - the R300 - I liked this very much when I done audition; and also I believe its a good step up from my current Q300s.

I'm aiming the new ones to be with me for long long time.. that's why I was looking even at R500s which is out of my budget..

As of now, Marantz PM7004 will be powering them. For now, these will be only for music, planning to take it for movie duties also once I'm able to change my old avr to a newer one which has front L/R pre-outs. Currently I'm using Pioneer Andrew Jones FS52 and center, surrounds for movies. I may sell these pioneers also to get a KEF R200s/ and good sub later.

I don't have a sub now, but Iam planning to get an SVS SB1000 / SB2000 next year.

The final price offered after much negotiation is:
R300 - USD 1300
R500 - USD 1900
LS50 - USD 1100

Thanks!

Last edited by Noble Jose; 11-29-2016 at 03:49 AM. Reason: updated info
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post #9397 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 06:46 AM
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Wow. You are getting some incredibly good prices there.

I am seriously biased, so dismiss what I am about to write.

When I was shopping I visited the dealer specifically looking for R300 because my son had just picked up a pair of Q300 from Accessories4Less.com for reasonable cost. They were better than the iQ10's he had given me the year before, and about as good as my old Hafler 200's. I wanted better because...I'm the dad. My son was with me when we went to this dealer I'd never heard of to audition the R300. They were out of them, saying they'd recently sold the last pair in stock. However, the salesman said they could setup the R500 to sound similar by running through an AVR with Audyssey, setting the low end to a little higher than what the R500 can really do and just disconnect the sub and put the lower port plug in.

We were just so impressed with the speakers that I wanted to order a pair of R300 on the spot. My son said they were definitely better than his Q300. But the salesman wasn't done. He connected the R500 to an NAD C375BEE integrated, no bass management and port plug out. My son and I sat alone in that room for another 45 minutes playing anything we could think of that we knew from his and my "internal playlist." We were absolutely blown away. The R500 was just in a totally different league than the Q300, and presumably the R300 too but there's no way I could at that time cough up the $2600 for those. Now the salesman offers me the demo model R500 with full factory warranty for the same price as new R300. For the sake of a couple of tiny nicks that you have get close to find, I bit.

These R500 continue to fascinate me. There is more bass in these than a small floorstander has any right to have. I often demo my speakers with the subwoofer off and then turn it on and that surprises many people. Probably 90% of the music I listen to never engages the sub at any noticeable level, so more often than not I put the receiver in analog bypass mode and send full range signal to the R500's. I do have optimal placement from the rear walls, about 18" to the back of the speakers, and that helps. My son comes over often and continues to comment about the profound difference between his and my speakers. (I recently got him a pair of Q500 so it's subsided a little.) And I know there's more in these as I upgrade my source from an NAD T758 to a quality integrated in the future.

The price you have there for a pair of R500 is only $100 more than I paid for 2 year old demo models. You would NEVER regret getting those over the R300. It's the LS50 or those now and a tough choice, but think of it this way: If you got the LS50 you absolutely need a subwoofer for far more of the music and 100% of the movies, but you have $800 in your pocket to upgrade or add one. With the R500 it's not so important to have a sub for everything, and they just sound so full compared to standmount speakers. Buy the R500.

OK, so now you have my long-winded thoughts on the matter. Dismiss my overly biased opinion.

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post #9398 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 12:18 PM
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If you auditioned the R300s, R500s and LS50s, which did you prefer? Good subs can add LF extension to the LS50s, but for most music it's not required -- they'll track a jazz bass very convincingly. The LS50s are very capable speakers, and you can always add subs if you're into pipe organ music or HT.
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post #9399 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 12:46 PM
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What do you think of using center channel speaker for surround and rear speakers?
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post #9400 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dbphd View Post
If you auditioned the R300s, R500s and LS50s, which did you prefer? Good subs can add LF extension to the LS50s, but for most music it's not required -- they'll track a jazz bass very convincingly. The LS50s are very capable speakers, and you can always add subs if you're into pipe organ music or HT.
I'll agree the LS50 is great for music and movie dialogue. Bass isn't the strong suit, though much music doesn't need a sub or full range speaker. The R300 and R500 both go a little deeper, the R500 especially so. The LS50 resolves better, a more defined soundstage too. I've auditioned the LS50 many time now in different rooms with different sources. They are very good yet quite different than the R series, though all still are distinctively "KEF." For my needs, my ears, it was R500 and they still wow me. For someone else, it'll be a different speaker.

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post #9401 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 01:23 PM
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What do you think of using center channel speaker for surround and rear speakers?
Bigger than it needs to be, though both the Q series and R series are true 3-way. However, the R200c and R600c are rear ported, deep and quite heavy. They wouldn't work so good as surrounds. As rears they'd work if away from walls a bit. The Q200c and Q600c aren't ported, instead use a passive radiator. They'd work anywhere if you can deal with the bulk.

For whatever reason I don't know, both the Q800ds and R800ds are setup by KEF for a higher LF range than similar bookshelf speakers. Center speakers seem to go lower. Why do you ask, are you considering them over the dipole surrounds? It's not hard to switch them to bipole.

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post #9402 of 9420 Old 11-29-2016, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Bigger than it needs to be, though both the Q series and R series are true 3-way. However, the R200c and R600c are rear ported, deep and quite heavy. They wouldn't work so good as surrounds. As rears they'd work if away from walls a bit. The Q200c and Q600c aren't ported, instead use a passive radiator. They'd work anywhere if you can deal with the bulk.

For whatever reason I don't know, both the Q800ds and R800ds are setup by KEF for a higher LF range than similar bookshelf speakers. Center speakers seem to go lower. Why do you ask, are you considering them over the dipole surrounds? It's not hard to switch them to bipole.
So the R200c would not work on a book shelf since they are rear ported
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post #9403 of 9420 Old 11-30-2016, 10:11 PM
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Is anybody using KEF REFERENCE 1s as L/R in a 5.x.x configuration? What surrounds / heights are good matches in your opinion?

Room is rather small, no sub (yet), the REFERENCE 1s are hooked up to an Arcam AVR850. This combo energizes the room quite easily.

I am thinking of using R100s as surrounds and the T301 as overheads (Atmos) but am not sure if they are a good match to the REFERENCE 1s.

Thanks for your input / opinions.
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post #9404 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 06:44 AM
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I am thinking of using R100s as surrounds and the T301 as overheads (Atmos) but am not sure if they are a good match to the REFERENCE 1s.
I'm using a pair a Kef E301s as rear surrounds with Kef Reference speakers as part of a 7.2.4 setup. I also considered the T series but found I could actually fit an E301 instead. I am happy with the decision and think the E series might sound better together with your Refs than the T series would. The E series uses the same (though not the same level) Uni-Q driver which should result in a better timbre match which I believe it does.

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post #9405 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 06:47 AM
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The better choice to my mind would be the Ci200RR-THX, and just put them in a box. If you look back a few pages in this thread, I believe @hatlesschimp had built boxes for them and plans to use them as rear surrounds.
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post #9406 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
The better choice to my mind would be the Ci200RR-THX, and just put them in a box. If you look back a few pages in this thread, I believe @hatlesschimp had built boxes for them and plans to use them as rear surrounds.
You mentioned the T-Series, but Ken is right - given the choice and the space - get the Ci200RR-THX speakers. I've also got those and they are incredible performers for ATMOS. I'd use them all around except I didn't have room in all places to mount them.

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post #9407 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
The better choice to my mind would be the Ci200RR-THX, and just put them in a box. If you look back a few pages in this thread, I believe @hatlesschimp had built boxes for them and plans to use them as rear surrounds.
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post #9408 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 10:04 PM
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Thanks everyone.

Actually I had (and still have) four of the Ci200RR-THX performing Atmos duty in my home setup in Germany. My wife uses that setup while I am working in Hong Kong. I love those and we have had them integrated very well into the ceiling.

Hmmm. You guys got me thinking. Maybe I should go for them again. Unfortunately I cannot have them integrated nicely in my rented apartment, as the ceiling cannot be modified. But maybe @hatlesschimp can take an order for a couple of boxes? Do they also come in piano white gloss? :-D

Ok, let me sleep on it. Maybe I'll have a pair of those for the Atmos duty. But I cannot possibly use them as surrounds due to limited space. So that questions is still on the table. Let me have a look at the E301s-Series.

Thanks for the recommendations and opinions everyone.
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post #9409 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 10:07 PM
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Thanks everyone.

Actually I had (and still have) four of the Ci200RR-THX performing Atmos duty in my home setup in Germany. My wife uses that setup while I am working in Hong Kong. I love those and we have had them integrated very well into the ceiling.

Hmmm. You guys got me thinking. Maybe I should go for them again. Unfortunately I cannot have them integrated nicely in my rented apartment, as the ceiling cannot be modified. But maybe @hatlesschimp can take an order for a couple of boxes? Do they also come in piano white gloss? :-D

Ok, let me sleep on it. Maybe I'll have a pair of those for the Atmos duty. But I cannot possibly use them as surrounds due to limited space. So that questions is still on the table. Let me have a look at the E301s-Series.

Thanks for the recommendations and opinions everyone.
I can make them for you in what ever finish you want. Its just postage that may make it difficult.
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post #9410 of 9420 Old 12-01-2016, 10:15 PM
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Big performance difference between E301 (stand type or desktop?) and Reference 1. Huge, in fact.

Is there no way to have someone local to you build boxes or get slim stands for something like the R100? Possibly X300AW?

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post #9411 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 09:46 AM
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I just picked up a pair of Q500s for front speakers and so far so good. What should I get next, a center or sub? I have the very budget Sony 5.1 speakers for the center and rears right now.


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post #9412 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 10:21 AM
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I just picked up a pair of Q500s for front speakers and so far so good. What should I get next, a center or sub? I have the very budget Sony 5.1 speakers for the center and rears right now.


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Also, should I just stop using the budget center and just have the towers do that work?


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post #9413 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 10:38 AM
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Also, should I just stop using the budget center and just have the towers do that work?


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My advice is to get the Q200c next. The Q500's will do a decent job on their own but the Q200c will make a huge difference as I discovered when I added one to my Q100 mains I've never had to reach for the remote to turn the volume up during quieter scenes since adding the center. I was using a JBL loft 20 center before swapping it out for the Q200c, very noticeable difference.

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post #9414 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modenacart View Post
I just picked up a pair of Q500s for front speakers and so far so good. What should I get next, a center or sub? I have the very budget Sony 5.1 speakers for the center and rears right now.


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Tough situation. Normally I'd say if you're using the speakers primarily for home theater and you've already got some sort of center speaker, get a good sub next. In this case, I don't know how long it would take for you to save up enough to get a center speaker after spending on a subwoofer and no telling how long the Q200c (or Q600c) will be on sale pricing.

If primarily music, definitely get the center now. The cost of the center is a finite amount. The cost of a subwoofer is variable, depending upon your room size and shape, placement, required power and features, and other people it may affect. The more you spend on a sub (up to about $2500 where a new SVS PB16 Ultra is priced), the more you get and it doesn't have to match any other speakers.

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post #9415 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 01:01 PM
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My new Q100s are revealing...hearing new things in music, but sometimes it seems like some parts of the track are in the background and not as forward....maybe it's the also new AMP (Paradigm PW AMP).

I don't have much experience with hifi, but I'm understanding alot. Not sure why people say all dacs are the same....I hear differences between.

Yamaha RX-V479 - I thought this was the most detailed AMP I've heard. I heard details popping out in music, but maybe this is not correct/exaggerated....don't know. Returned because I needed subwoofer EQ.

Marantz NR-1506 - Did not hear the same details popping out like the Yamaha. I like the SubEQ, but was not happy with Audyssey for music in my room. Too bright and as I played with various Audyssey modes & turned-off, I noticed parts of bass notes missing. This confused me, wasn't sure what was correct. Returned.

Paradigm PW AMP - haven't had much time to test, I like, but also don't hear the same details poppint out like the Yamaha.

NAD 7050 - haven't had the chance to test with the KEF. I like, but seems underpowered on occasion compared to the Paradigm.
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post #9416 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 07:37 PM
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I can make them for you in what ever finish you want. Its just postage that may make it difficult.
That's great! I might come back to you on this! :-)
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post #9417 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KenM10759 View Post
Big performance difference between E301 (stand type or desktop?) and Reference 1. Huge, in fact.

Is there no way to have someone local to you build boxes or get slim stands for something like the R100? Possibly X300AW?
I was considering T301 as top speakers (Atmos), and E301 was suggested also to consider.

As surrounds, my original thoughts were also R100s.

Did anybody pair the R100 as surrounds with the L/R REFERENCE speakers?

Thanks again, everyone.
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post #9418 of 9420 Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM
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That's great! I might come back to you on this! :-)
This video will give you an idea of what Im doing at my joint.
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post #9419 of 9420 Old Today, 07:20 AM
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Does anyone own the muon? Pretty pricy.


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post #9420 of 9420 Old Today, 07:34 AM
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Muon or Muo? If the $225,000 Muon, I don't even know of a dealer who has ever had them in for even a brief demo.

Those are clearly aimed at people with more money than sense. An aluminum cabinet could easily be dented or scratched, and almost impossible to fix. They may sound great, though I'd bet other speakers in that price range could beat it handily. There's a lot of cost in that cabinet.

KEF R500, R200C, R100, SVS SB2000 sub, NAD T758 receiver, Pro-Ject RPM1 TT w/ Sumiko Pearl, Bluesound Vault2, Sony BDP-S480 BlueRay player, Samsung UN55JU6500F 4K LED TV, KEF M500 headphones, Sony CDP-CE500 CD changer.
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Kef , Kef Audio , kef blade 2 , Kef Bookshelf Speaker , Kef C4 Subwoofer Black , Kef Center Channel Speaker , Kef Ls50 2 Way Speaker System , Kef Q100bl Bookshelf Speaker , Kef Q700wa Floorstanding Speaker , kef reference 3 , Kef T Series Floor Stand Pair



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