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Old 01-07-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by richmagnus View Post
Hi Kris, I would say go for it. The new S150mk2's are a better speaker than the originals but will sound much better than your present center. They are voiced to match the old 150's. They have improved drivers and feature the new PRO tweeters. The cabinet construction is also to a higher standard.
Thank you @richmagnus .

Btw, any thoughts on the receiver power and any potential risks? Onkyo NR1010 is rated at 140 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven (I guess useless stat) but more importantly Max Dynamic Power @ 8 Ohm = 160W and @ 4 Ohm = 270W. With all 5 speakers being 4 Ohm (S150s / 851s) and 2 speakers being 8 Ohm (550s), do I need to worry about any potential damage to receiver or speakers themselves? I hear M&Ks are pretty power demanding and don't like to be under-powered…
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mkkris View Post
Hi,
New member of AVS forums and a 9-year proud owner of M&K speakers. Have a couple of questions and looking for an advice…

The following is my current setup:
* pair of M&K S-150 THX (the original one) as Left and Right channels
* pair of M&K LCR851; one as Center channel and one as single rear surround channel (6.1)
* pair of M&K SS-550THX as left and right surrounds
* sub: M&K MX125M2
* A/V receiver: Onkyo TX-NR1010


Yes, I know, not a matching set but picked these up brand new for a great price at a local electronics store when they were being discontinued. Was blown away by their sound and just could not pass it up.

Over years, they have been sounding great. They especially came alive after I switched from Denon AVR2807 to Onkyo NR1010 few years back but that's another story…

I have been entertaining an idea to get a single S150 MK II speaker for a center channel and take the LCR851 (currently center) and move it back; go from 6.1 to 7.1 sound. The idea is not necessarily 1 extra speaker but to make the Center channel match with Left and Right, hoping to improve the sound.

Questions:
1. Will the fact that Left and Right channels are 1st gen S150s and Center will be S150 MKII, make it sound worse than current setup? Will it improve things; worth enough to spend $1500?

2. Understand that MK speakers require lots of power. Will adding an extra S150 speaker cause problems with the Onkyo receiver?

3. Looking at the system as a whole, do you think it is too mismatched? Current performance doesn't bother me but perhaps it is because I don't know any better / have no reference point?

Appreciate candid feedback.

Regards,
kris
While upgrading the center channel will not hurt, I would recommend you upgrade to a power amp and use the Onkyo as a processor. Your MK's will thank you (even the 851 center speaker).

I do not think your speakers are mismatched as a lot of the original MK's were 'voiced' so that they work with each other. Yes in an ideal world the front LCR speakers would be identical but you will get a MUCH better improvement on current performance if you went with a power amp to power the whole system and an 'incremental' increase in performance with another S150 which will not 'really' be the same as your current L/R anyway as it has slightly different drivers and tweeter.

So for all intent and purposes, you will still not have 'identical' speakers on the front LCR anyway if you bought a MKII S150 as it would still mean that the existing L/R S150's will have a slightly different in tonal character.

I have used a 750 THX center with my S150 L/R and it still sounded good to me. When I went with a power amp, the performance went up and I have never looked back and will now always have a power amp driving the system.

You've already recognized that the system 'came alive' with a change in receiver. It will do so again when you go with a power amp.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:47 PM
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The S150mk1's do indeed benefit from an increase in power. The mk2 variant are not as power hungry. I ran S150mk2's LCR and a pair of S150T's off an Anthem MRX 710 in a big listening room. No issues till we were +6db above reference. If you can source a mk1 S150 that would be the better way to go and then add a power amp at a later date as the mk1 will be much much cheaper and saved funds could fontina power amp. I would still upgrade your centre as it provides nearly 80% of what you hear in a movie and the dialogue. The S150mk2 will be fine as a centre and easier to drive.

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Old 01-07-2015, 05:12 PM
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Great feedback @mahm and @richmagnus , thank you. I have not considered adding an external amp but heard that it does produce great results. Now I want to do both, get an amp and S150 for center. Thanks a lot for convincing me to spend more $$$!
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Old 01-07-2015, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mkkris View Post
Great feedback @mahm and @richmagnus , thank you. I have not considered adding an external amp but heard that it does produce great results. Now I want to do both, get an amp and S150 for center. Thanks a lot for convincing me to spend more $$$!

It will be worth the expense. Good luck.

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Old 01-08-2015, 06:20 AM
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When it comes to M&K speaker and amplifiers, there are a couple things to be cognizant of.

Yes, Ken always designed his speakers with a 4ohm nominal impedance. I asked him about this once and his rationale was that, assuming a competently designed amp to begin with, you literally get more output (dynamic headroom) out of it at the lower impedance (as much as 3dB, depending on a bunch of factors)....and at the end of the day every extra dBSPL counts. In the pro space where Ken played most, this was a non-issue where a few thousand bucks of Bryston (or whatever) is the norm.

For consumers, over the years, this has always been a point of consternation, mainly that receivers (in general) cant swing current like they can voltage and thus low impedance speakers are to be avoided like the plague. Perhaps. But consider than something like an MPS2510 has an efficiency greater than 90dB and things become less black and white. Compared to a hypothetical but very typical 2-way 6-incher which usually weigh in at a scant 85dB, the M&K is affording your amp/receiver as much a 6dB headroom. That is HUGE. So while you might say that a receiver has to work harder into the low impedance, chances are that conversely its being asked for less output period (as compared to a less efficient speaker).

So while quality amplification ALLWAYS pays dividends with ANY speaker, I dont feel that M&Ks should be singled out as "needing" it any more than any other speaker. In fact, I would say that the myriad of low efficiency speakers out there, irrespective of impedance, are the ones which really need the 200lb amps since they are going to suck the headroom right out of them.

Sure, if someone wants to give me stack of Brystons I wont complain and be most grateful, but back in the real world I've been using my trio of 3.5ohm (not a typo) MPS2510s on an Onkyo TX-SR805 receiver for many many years with, I deem, exquisite results and no ill effects. Granted, Onkyo really hit one out of the park with the 805 in terms of amp topology, but the point stands.

Last edited by Sunsanvil; 01-12-2015 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:50 AM
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The S300's are 93db efficient.

Marantz AV7702, Anthem Statement A5,Lyngdorf TDAi 2170, MK Sound MPS 300 LCR,MK Sound S300T's, MK Sound V12 x 2,Oppo 103,Sonos ZP90,Qnap TS112 NAS,PanasonicTXP50GT60.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:04 AM
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@mkkris ,
I'm a little late to the party in responding to this but I would like to share with you my experience with using M&K speakers with a receiver and later a power amp. My theater has gone through several iterations as far as preamp/power amp combinations goes. Here it is in chronological order:
1)Denon AVR-988 only (sounded great at the time)

2)Denon AVR-988 with Emotiva XPA-3 (didn't realize what I was missing with my LCR's)

3)Denon AVR-988 with Outlaw 7075 (Lost a little something with this amp to be honest)

4)Integra DTR-9.9 with Outlaw 7075 (Other than the Denon by itself, my least favorite combination but still sounded good)

5)Marantz SR5005 with Outlaw 7075 (Marantz had a warmer sound than the Integra which is what I liked. Still not what I wanted though, due to the small amp I stupidly purchased)

6)Marantz SR5005 with Rotel RMB-1075 (Much more powerful amp. Could really feel the difference in the LCR's)

7)Sherbourn PT-7030 with Sherbourn PA 7-150 (The processor weighs the same as the Rotel 5 channel amp. The amp is ridiculously heavy at 70 lbs. The absolute best my system has ever sounded, period. The amp is only rated at 150 wpc/8 ohms and 220 wpc/4 ohms, but I was hearing things from my 550 surrounds that I had never heard before. This amp was perfect for my 19x12 theater. I think 150 wpc is awfully conservative. It has, I think, 90,000 uF of capacitance so that may be part of the reason it sounds much more powerful than that.)

8)Marantz SR5008 with Sherbourn PA 7-150 (Sherbourn preamp sounded slightly better in my opinion but I needed feedback with IRule and the 7030 wouldn't allow it so I switched, again. Marantz is still great and the power amp is of course, a beast.)

I guess the point is, in my experience, a quality amp is going to make your M&K's sound much, much better. There may not be a big difference in subtle music passages or scenes where there aren't a lot of action, but having the power when it is needed, makes a huge difference in the listening experience.
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:39 PM
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Thanks @Sunsanvil , very informative.
@JVoth , glad you posted this. Appreciate it. I was looking into XPA-3 as a possible candidate.
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:26 AM
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Hello ,
Its been a year sense I've checked in on the AVS site...And yes, I'm late on this...
I have a similar experience with power and M&Ks.. I purchased Five B-1600s and a couple MX 70 B SF a year or so before everything went dead at M&K..(I also have a MX 125 SF sub that was my last purchase but I like the twin 70s better)..
Power was a Marantz 7500...Very pleased. Sounded solid, and listening to video concerts (Jeff Beck etc...) was a joy. Played loud, clear, and it thumped... We used to invite a few couples over and sit around and do some partying while listening to the system...It was a good theater system also, but I'm just not into that movie sound as much as I like the stadium sound/live performance/studio sound ....Then I made a big mistake. I upgraded to a Denon 4250 'Flagship". It now sounds like a cheap system. Lifeless, thumpless, and "all run together sound". I sent it back and tried another...Same thing. As far as movies...Its great, but throw a CD in it (Oppo 103) and it goes south quick. I'm planning on doing SOMETHING. But not quite sure what to do. A couple separate amps maybe, but I'm gun shy now....
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Old 01-14-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greensub View Post
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>avfans</strong> <a href="/forum/post/16118562"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><b><span style="color:#0000FF;">M&amp;K 5.25" Polypropylene mid/woofer - Z50 MK TV (8 Ohm)</span></b><br><br><img alt="" src="http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w292/hiviuser/Multi-Channel%20AV%20Setup/MK%20Monitor%20Speakers/Woofer%20and%20Tweeter/MKWooferZ50MK8Ohm-01.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><img alt="" src="http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w292/hiviuser/Multi-Channel%20AV%20Setup/MK%20Monitor%20Speakers/Woofer%20and%20Tweeter/MKWooferZ50MK8Ohm-02.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><img alt="" src="http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w292/hiviuser/Multi-Channel%20AV%20Setup/MK%20Monitor%20Speakers/Woofer%20and%20Tweeter/MKWooferZ50MK8Ohm-03.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"><br><br><img alt="" src="http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w292/hiviuser/Multi-Channel%20AV%20Setup/MK%20Monitor%20Speakers/Woofer%20and%20Tweeter/MKWooferZ50MK8Ohm-08.jpg" style="border:0px solid;"></div>
</div>
<br><p>Thanks for the photos... The Z50 TVC (the one with the shielding can) only goes in the powered versions according to my paperwork, the passive gets the Z50 TV (no shielding can). Also the S-150P only has one 4 ohm Z16, the 2 8 ohm tweeters are Z11's so I don't think the amplifier affects those, just the woofers. The 2510P gets all 3 Z16's, the S-150P just one. I have seen the old M&amp;K professional series info listing the 2510P with 3 Z16's and the 2510 passives only getting one Z16 like the S-150 (that would make the S-150 and the MPS-2510 identical in all respects) I've been making the MPS-2510's with all 3 being Z16's (I do have the 8 ohm Z11's, but have only used them for the SW-150) they do have the same crossover points regardless of the trans. line. Maybe Chris Hagen will be able to provide the specifics.<br>
 </p>
<p>EDIT*** immortal sound messaged me the other day after asking Ken (Kriesel) about this... as I mention above and elsewhere... my info at the time was derived from paperwork from VIFA (not M&amp;K)... it must have gotten messed up somewhere between the two companies (or between VIFA and my old company). Anyways, Ken is now "on record" as stating that both powered versions (S-150P &amp; MPS-2510P) are identical with all 3 tweeters being Z16 transmission line versions of the tweeter, not as I've stated above. So in review, this would mean that all passive versions (150 or 2510) would have one (center) Z16 transmission line and two (top &amp; bottom) Z11 non-transmission line tweeters (resistance ratings are correct as stated and explained). While both powered versions use only Z16 transmission line tweeters (ohm ratings as previously stated).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Dave (Deep Surplus)</p>
i am wondering if anyone has this m&k 5 1/4 woofer available for purchase. i need a Z50 TVC....thanks much. kindly,moviesoundlover
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:22 PM
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Hello,

Quick question on M&K MX125M2 sub.

How good is the M&K sub comparing to today's latest offerings from for example SVS? Looking at their Cylinder Subwoofers, even the entry-level PC-2000 seems to have significant more power (500 Watts vs. M&K's 150 Watts) and much better frequency response (16-260Hz vs. M&K's 20-200Hz). Will SVS perform significantly better (i.e. faster transient response, deeper bass that you can feel, louder, etc...)?

Thanks
-kris
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:51 PM
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The push/pull design of the M&K subs give them a unique sound versus SVS, HSU, and other Internet-direct companies. When I reviewed the X12 I loved it because it delivered tight and deep base and was extremely accurate. The slamming of a car door sounded exactly like a car door slamming...not a reproduction. You really have to hear it to appreciate it. All that being said, the offerings from SVS and HSU (two that I have direct experience with...I own one of each and use them in my setup) are better values overall though when you throw price into the equation. In fact, the HSU VTF-15H MK2 is arguably the best subwoofer I've ever owned when you take all factors into consideration...sound, build quality, customization, and of course, price. At $899 plus shipping (about $100), it's a screaming deal for under $1000.
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Old 01-15-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
The push/pull design of the M&K subs give them a unique sound versus SVS, HSU, and other Internet-direct companies. When I reviewed the X12 I loved it because it delivered tight and deep base and was extremely accurate. The slamming of a car door sounded exactly like a car door slamming...not a reproduction. You really have to hear it to appreciate it. All that being said, the offerings from SVS and HSU (two that I have direct experience with...I own one of each and use them in my setup) are better values overall though when you throw price into the equation. In fact, the HSU VTF-15H MK2 is arguably the best subwoofer I've ever owned when you take all factors into consideration...sound, build quality, customization, and of course, price. At $899 plus shipping (about $100), it's a screaming deal for under $1000.
Thank you Dave for your $0.02, really appreciate it.

Yes, I have been drooling over X12 but it is way outside of what I want to spend. I can justify spending $1k (and even go as high as $1500) for a noticeable improvement over MX125M2 but I want to make sure it will be a significant improvement; not just a minimal one. $1500 isn't really burning a hole in my pocket right if you know what I mean and if I'm to spend it, I want to make sure it is a good investment...

As far as M&K subs, anything in under $1500 range that will come close to VTF-15H? I think I already know the answer though...

-k
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Old 01-16-2015, 06:53 AM
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Not that I know of unless you can find one used, but I doubt it.

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Old 01-16-2015, 07:08 AM
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Official MK - Miller & Kreisel Thread?!?

I've swapped out my Paradigm Sub1 for a pair of the new MK V12's. (Not X12's). Stunning. The best bass I have owned. These are also better than my old MK MX125's.

Marantz AV7702, Anthem Statement A5,Lyngdorf TDAi 2170, MK Sound MPS 300 LCR,MK Sound S300T's, MK Sound V12 x 2,Oppo 103,Sonos ZP90,Qnap TS112 NAS,PanasonicTXP50GT60.

Last edited by richmagnus; 01-16-2015 at 07:33 AM.
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