Official MK - Miller & Kreisel Thread?!? - Page 146 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4351 of 4364 Old 03-26-2017, 02:25 PM
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Coming on nicely.
Going to sound fantastic.


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post #4352 of 4364 Old 03-31-2017, 10:53 PM
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I'm enjoying listening to some CDs on my S150MKII / X12 system tonight. I recently updated with some new speaker and subwoofer cables. For some reason the new subwoofer cables seem to work better with the auto power feature on the X12. It was somewhat finicky on my old cables and I'd often find a sub still on long after the system had been shut down, often the next day. It seems to be very consistent now.

I did a new MCACC (room correction on Pioneer SC-77) calibration after installing the new cables and some repositioning. I've continually struggled with my system sounding to bright or brittle. Well, after the calibration it still sounded that way both with the EQ on and EQ off. I found an old THX equalizer document that suggested minimizing EQ above 1000 Hz, using it primarily and sparingly for reducing peaks. Well, I found that MCACC detected a dip at 8000 Hz and was boosting 3.5 dB there. I decided to try cutting it back some and I am rather amazed at the results. I certainly wasn't expecting cutting a dB or two at 8000 Hz to make much audible difference. I can't believe how much the bass warmed up as a result. Trombones, tubas, bass cellos, and bass notes on grand pianos have all come to life. It is sounding a lot closer to the way these instruments sound in a movie theater with a good sound system. I've always wanted that warm bass sound, but I never previously seemed to be able to find the combination that gave it without sacrificing clarity in the treble. I'm still experimenting some to find the best combination, and I'm still frustrated that there isn't a more objective way of doing this. All I want is to get my system sounding as much as possible like the sound engineer's system. I want to hear it the same way they did when they played it back after final mixing.

Anyway, with the new speaker cables I'm finding that MCACC is measuring the top octave (16k) as being 7dB louder than the octave below it (8k). I know the microphone is picking up room reflections which affect this, but even so I am surprised by the top octave being so much higher than the one below it. I didn't see it before I got the new cables, and I think it's because my previous cheapo speaker cables were rolling off the higher frequencies.
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post #4353 of 4364 Old 04-03-2017, 03:19 PM
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Official MK - Miller & Kreisel Thread?!?

Get rid of the Sony. Drop in an Anthem. Your MK's deserve far better.


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post #4354 of 4364 Old 04-05-2017, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmagnus View Post
Get rid of the Sony. Drop in an Anthem. Your MK's deserve far better.


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Who has a Sony?
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post #4355 of 4364 Old 04-05-2017, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
Who has a Sony?


My mistake. Pioneer.


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post #4356 of 4364 Old 04-05-2017, 10:13 PM
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^ Well, I got the Pioneer Elite SC-77 because it was the best THX controller/receiver I could find at the time (the SC-79 didn't warrant the extra cost). It is rated for 240W continuous per channel at 1 kHz, 4 ohm, 1.0 % THD (also THX Ultra 2) which I think is greater than the Anthem MRX 1120 (I can't find the 4 ohm specs for the Anthem, but the Pioneer beats it on the 6 and 8 ohm specs). Two years after got the SC-77 I purchased the S150/X12 system specifically to have a good THX Ultra 2 speaker system to go with it. It doesn't seem to break a sweat playing at reference level, which is louder than I can stand it. All the speaker level settings are attenuated (not boosted) to bring them to THX reference volume. I usually set the volume down 7.5 dB to 15 dB for what sounds like a normally loud theatrical presentation.

It seems like I've had this or a similar conversation before in this thread, back when I first bought the M&Ks.

As far as the struggle with bright and brittle sound, it is exactly the same thing I heard when I auditioned the S300 speaker system before buying the S150s. I've thought it was a room issue since I auditioned the S300s in living room more similar to my own, and the S150s in a wide room with no close side walls. Knocking the 8kHz band down a couple of dB seems to take care of it. It's just something I hadn't tried before.
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post #4357 of 4364 Old 04-08-2017, 02:28 AM
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The MK's are revealing speakers. Our experience with the Pioneers hasn't been the best.

We will often match Anthems with MK products and get great results every time. Try a Denon 7200wa as they are great value for money at the moment.


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post #4358 of 4364 Old 04-08-2017, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
As far as the struggle with bright and brittle sound, it is exactly the same thing I heard when I auditioned the S300 speaker system before buying the S150s.
I have MP300 in a partly treated room (front wall 1' deep with Rockwool) and plenty of thick curtains and fabric furniture. I run an Arcam AVR390 (as a processor) into an Arcam P7 power amp. My speakers are anything but bright and brittle; very smooth sounding up to and beyond reference. I use Dirac, but for some listening I switch this off, so it's not because room eq is smoothering the treble either, so it makes me wonder if it's a room/amp issue in your case.

FWIW Richmagnus has heard my set up (the MP300 were his ex display speakers ), so can concur.

I previously used MP150 for my LCR (now recycled as my Atmos channels). These had a 'thinner' sound, but back then my room wasn't treated bar a large rug, though were driven by the same power amp and an older Arcam AV8 processor. They still didn't sound overly bright to me though.

FWIW my P7 is rated 230 watts into 4ohms ALL channels driven, which is probably a difference between an AVR output (I expect it will drop considerably ALL channels driven). MKs seem to relish having plenty of power to drive them.

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet". William Shakespeare 1615

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post #4359 of 4364 Old 04-09-2017, 01:05 AM
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^ Thanks. I don't mean to imply any of the dryness and brittleness (for lack of knowing any better way to describe it) is the result of either the S150s or the S300s. There have been various differences in my auditions of speakers including different sources, amps, receivers, and listening rooms. The S300s were never a realistic proposition for me due to size and budget. However I traveled about 1500 miles from home to audition the S150s, and the dealer also had the S300s set up in his living room, so I thought I should take advantage of the rare opportunity to check them out. Most of the dealers in the United States are custom installers, and I found it very rare that anyone was set up to demo any of the speakers at all. There also happened to be a Best Buy/Magnolia store near the dealer I visited that had an older S150 setup in a theater room that I was able to demo. Neither of them had any of the tri-pole surround speakers set up.

At the Magnolia store I just listened to the movie they had playing, but I was using a CD I'm familiar with to demo at the dealer. It contains orchestral music that I've found to be very revealing when played 2 channel. The thin, brittle, dry sound becomes very evident on this and one other CD that I have. The 100+ piece orchestra with some unique instruments just sounds weak and dry. Low notes on the grand piano, bass trombone, tuba, bass cello, etc. seem weak and dry when they should be bold and rich. This is much less noticeable on other music and multi-channel movies. I've heard some of the music from the CD played through a theater speaker system and it doesn't sound this way. It also sounds rich with some headphones. Anyway, I was surprised to find that simply reducing a boost that my Pioneer's room correction system was setting at 8kHz apparently went a long way toward fixing this. I've also found that it makes movies sound closer to what I'd expect them to sound like in movie theaters with the best sound systems. The Pioneer's room correction system is apparently setting for a perfectly flat response including room reflections, and I'm learning that it may be best to exclude the room reflections at higher frequencies. Fortunately the Pioneer lets me adjust most of the room correction criteria myself. My purpose of posting about it here was in case it might help anyone else.

I'm not planning on replacing my receiver anytime soon, unless I discover it is a real problem. I tried to compare it with Yamaha, Onkyo, (and I believe Denon, 4 brands total) before purchasing. The demo setup at the two Best Buy/Magnolias were certainly not the best, but the Yamaha and the Pioneer sounded the best. In retrospect, knowing what I know now, I might have given more consideration to Denon. I'd probably give less consideration to Pioneer now since they've been purchased by Onkyo. Based on the questions I've seen come up in the Pioneer forums, I've found the new manuals to be rather lacking. I think Onkyo is the only option left for a THX receiver now. My next upgrade will probably be a video display.

The S150s are extremely clear and revealing. Dialog is as clear as I've heard it anywhere on any system or speakers, including theaters. However I often find myself listening to details of the orchestral music in movies. Maybe I've just learned to listen better, but it seems like the M&Ks have made it considerably easier to listen to specific subtle details and layers of movie soundtracks. I did have a few frustrations with the grills on the subwoofers for a while, but those have been fixed now and they sure integrate wonderfully with the S150s.
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post #4360 of 4364 Old 04-09-2017, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmagnus View Post
The MK's are revealing speakers. Our experience with the Pioneers hasn't been the best.

We will often match Anthems with MK products and get great results every time. Try a Denon 7200wa as they are great value for money at the moment.


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I have legacy MK s150s x 3 and SURT200M2 surrounds and I have NEVER heard my speakers sound as great as when I hooked them up to the Denon x7200wa receiver. Quality amp power along with Audyssey XT32 room correction.
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post #4361 of 4364 Old 04-09-2017, 01:37 PM
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Is Ken ever going to release the new subs?

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post #4362 of 4364 Old 04-17-2017, 12:28 PM
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Hello
What is the different between "Miller and Kreisel SS-150 THX" and "M&K MPS1525M2"

The saller says

"This a similar design to the SS150-THX but in the Professional line"

Is that correct. Is M&K MPS1525M2 better than SS-150 THX???
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post #4363 of 4364 Old 04-17-2017, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remains81 View Post
Hello
What is the different between "Miller and Kreisel SS-150 THX" and "M&K MPS1525M2"

The saller says

"This a similar design to the SS150-THX but in the Professional line"

Is that correct. Is M&K MPS1525M2 better than SS-150 THX???
Here is the product information on those speakers. http://web.archive.org/web/200706091...om/mps1525.htm
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post #4364 of 4364 Unread Today, 09:50 AM
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I've been looking for a pair of S-5000's for a while and most I see listed have worn foam pieces critical to the design. I've seen replacements for the S-150 but that foam is quite different. Does anyone know where I can find a correct replacement?
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