what are some common speaker brands that get sold in the back of white vans? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 100 Old 11-10-2006, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Share your amusing story here.

I was once approached and offered a pair of Kirsch(can't remember exact name) speakers? Unfortunately for me, the mere $50 I had was not enough for those magnificant $2,000 pair of speakers
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post #2 of 100 Old 11-10-2006, 09:45 PM
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http://www.scamshield.com/Feature.asp?id=1
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/4/9/224439/1810
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speakers
http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/...aker_scams.htm

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post #3 of 100 Old 11-10-2006, 09:46 PM
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Audiofile
Acoustic Monitor
Acoustic Response (not to be confused with the company Acoustic Research, which involved the famous and respected Henry Kloss, who went on to found KLH and Cambridge Soundworks), Acoustic Image, Acoustic Lab Technology
Denmark (not to be confused with Denon)
Dogg Digital, Digital Dogg Audio (reportedly very popular on eBay)
Dahlton
Dynalab (not to be confused with Dynamat)
Epiphany
Grafdale
Digital Pro Audio, Pro Audio, Digital Audio, Digital Audio Professional Speaker Systems, Digital Audio Skyline Digital Research
Epiphany Audio
Omni Audio
Protecsound
Pro Dynamics
Paradyme (not to be confused with Paradigm)
PSD (jokingly referred to as Paid Scam Drivers). Not to be confused with PSB.
Theater Research ,are among the most popular white van speakers...

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post #4 of 100 Old 11-10-2006, 10:05 PM
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Damn, I thought the white van guys were selling stolen speakers that are actually good brand names. This is really bad!
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post #5 of 100 Old 11-10-2006, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droht View Post

Damn, I thought the white van guys were selling stolen speakers that are actually good brand names. This is really bad!

I was thinking, for $50 I would get 2 nice looking giant wooden boxes that I'm sure I can find something to do with, and 6 kickass super strong magnets that I know I can find something to do with.
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post #6 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madeupfacts View Post

I was thinking, for $50 I would get 2 nice looking giant wooden boxes that I'm sure I can find something to do with, and 6 kickass super strong magnets that I know I can find something to do with.

If you think they will give you something that will be worth more than $50 (or what ever you paid), then think again. There is a reason, these are called "Scam".
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post #7 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madeupfacts View Post

I was thinking, for $50 I would get 2 nice looking giant wooden boxes that I'm sure I can find something to do with, and 6 kickass super strong magnets that I know I can find something to do with.

Dewd, those magnets aren't strong enough to hold a shopping list to a refrigerator door...

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aka TRIAD DUDE

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post #8 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Dewd, those magnets aren't strong enough to hold a shopping list to a refrigerator door...


Im single... small shopping list here

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Just make sure your toys are over 18.


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post #9 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 08:38 AM
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Of course the answer is - they are not common speakers. Come on - Paradyme, Acoustic Response? It's actually laughable at how our greed makes us humans miss these obvious clues.
FYI - Technically, this is not a scam ... it is a Con. No one was forced to buy these $20 pieces of junk. Every purchase was driven by greed on the buyers part - trying to take advantage of an unethical situation. Then they get all indignant when it turns out to be a rip off. You gotta love the emotional swing of it all.
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post #10 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 10:27 AM
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Exactly - all the most successful cons are based on the mark's own greed. TANSTAAFL.

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post #11 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 10:41 AM
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I have noticed that they are really using craigslist alot now. Its annoying. I see them try to sell their crap about once a month in sacramento, usually outside of Fry's.
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post #12 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 10:50 AM
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You mean my Panasoanic receiver is bogus and my Paradyme speakers aren't very good?
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post #13 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 11:09 AM
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What! You got an original Panasoanic?! Wow, I'd trade both of my Soniy Trinton TV's and my NADD 7420EP receiver for just one Pansoanic receiver.

Seriously, these $2800 Triton's have way too much blue tint. I knew I should have written down the tag of that ##%$ Van!
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post #14 of 100 Old 11-11-2006, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaystarCEO View Post

What! You got an original Panasoanic?! Wow, I'd trade both of my Soniy Trinton TV's and my NADD 7420EP receiver for just one Pansoanic receiver.

Seriously, these $2800 Triton's have way too much blue tint. I knew I should have written down the tag of that ##%$ Van!

Are they DCS certified?
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post #15 of 100 Old 11-13-2006, 05:59 PM
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10 years ago, I was walking from the bank where I worked, out to my car on a lunch break, and the white van pulled up. "Dude! You want some speakers?" I was incredulous, but uneducated. Eventually I talked him down to $200 for the pair and brought them home. As a decided non-audiophile I was quite happy. They were big, loud, sounded as good as I expected (a little better than FM radio/boombox quality) and I did not feel ripped off.

The internet has come a long way since then in educating people like me in their purchases and helpful sites like this one have guided me in purchasing my new Axiom system. Finally I am replacing my big black Acoustic Monitor speakers but I have no hard feelings. I got a lot of use out of them. Not a bad outcome for a con/scam victim.
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post #16 of 100 Old 11-13-2006, 06:57 PM
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Ya mean the Moniter Audio speakers and Rollex watch I got for 6 bucks is fake???
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post #17 of 100 Old 11-13-2006, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik in sac View Post

I have noticed that they are really using craigslist alot now. Its annoying. I see them try to sell their crap about once a month in sacramento, usually outside of Fry's.

dude

the people on craigslist are usually victims of the scam trying to recover some of their cash, it aint the white van people themselves

and yes i laugh when people post that crap on craigslist, especially when they say crap like "i bought this $3029.00 (LOL REAL MSRP!!!) 5.1 surround setup but then i uhh... i... I WON A WHOLE NEW 5.1 SETUP!! so i dont need these, they are yours for the low price of $1000!"

i really really really hope no one falls for those
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post #18 of 100 Old 11-14-2006, 11:34 AM
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post #19 of 100 Old 11-14-2006, 12:51 PM
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The Great International White Van Speaker Scam

By brettd in News
Sun Apr 11, 2004 at 04:39:07 PM EST
Tags: News (all tags)
An interesting scam has resurfaced in the last few years, taking the world by storm. It is at least a decade old scam, remarkably well organized, bordering on mafia-like proportions. There are many slight variations, but the scam is mostly the same- two guys, in a white truck(hence the name) approach you in a mall or store parking lot. Perhaps at a stop light, or they wave at you frantically as you drive down the highway. "Hey buddy, wanna buy a set of speakers?" Sounds absurd, but all manner of people fall for it all across the world.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






The scam works as follows. Two guys, often wearing nice uniforms, possessing realistic looking invoices, business cards, and many of the trappings of a legitimate business, try to sell sets of speakers out of a van; it's white, because those are usually the cheapest to rent. The vans are often unmarked but occasionally have professional-looking graphics on the side which could be nothing more than temporary sticker or magnet signs. They will set up in a mall parking lot, at gas stations, large chain store lots or, alarmingly, ATM/bank parking lots. As stores and police departments catch on, techniques have shifted towards trying to hook people at stop lights or by waving them down on high traffic two-lane roads.

They look for luxury cars or other signs of disposable income. They look for young men, by themselves(especially without girlfriends or wives). They can be extremely aggressive and intimidating. Don't bother with made up excuses, simply say "No". If you say you don't have cash, they'll helpfully offer to follow you to the nearest ATM(why anyone in their right mind would allow themselves to be followed to an ATM is beyond me). If you're about to walk away, they'll get in your face, ask what price you would pay for them(or what your daily withdrawl limit is), and then "cave in" to that price.

The premise is that they are audio system installers; stories usually involve supposed jobs installing home theater systems or sound systems in bars, resteraunts, theaters, or often the local sports arena. They claim someone("the warehouse", for example) or "the computer" messed up and they got "extras". Another popular line is that "speakers are usually sold in pairs, but these are studio speakers!" Even more dubious, they want to unload them "before they get back and the boss finds out"; it is a common theme that they're "just broke hard working guys" and they hate their boss, for the sympathy angle. If nothing else, their willingness to tell a stranger they want to steal company property should raise warning bells all by itself, and remember folks- if the story were true, buying stolen goods is illegal anyway.

The speakers appear to be decently made, in part because most people wouldn't know what to look for in a good speaker if it said "Hello" and bit them, and much of what makes for a good speaker is hidden from view or difficult for the layman to evaluate. Such as:

Are wires inside soldered, or using spade connectors?
Is there internal dampening materials?
Is the cabinet properly sized, reinforced, and made of sufficiently strong material to not excessively resonate?
What materials are used in the speaker cone, the surround?
Is the crossover(the electronics which seperate high and low frequency sounds for the different sized speaker drivers) properly designed?
Often the company or model names involve common numbers like "5.1", a reference to 5.1 channel surround sound, and the speakers have impressive sounding names that either attempt to coin in on established, respected companies, or essentially made up at random using common audio terminology in an attempt to be generic. A sampling of the many, many names that I have come across on various websites and web forums where people have reported getting scammed or approached:

Audiofile
Acoustic Monitor
Acoustic Response (not to be confused with the company Acoustic Research, which involved the famous and respected Henry Kloss, who went on to found KLH and Cambridge Soundworks), Acoustic Image, Acoustic Lab Technology
Denmark (not to be confused with Denon)
Dogg Digital, Digital Dogg Audio (reportedly very popular on eBay)
Dahlton
Dynalab (not to be confused with Dynamat)
Epiphany
Grafdale
Digital Pro Audio, Pro Audio, Digital Audio, Digital Audio Professional Speaker Systems, Digital Audio Skyline Digital Research
Epiphany Audio
Omni Audio
Protecsound
Pro Dynamics
Paradyme (not to be confused with Paradigm)
PSD (jokingly referred to as Paid Scam Drivers). Not to be confused with PSB.
Theater Research
They often come in fancy boxes, carrying sticker price tags(since when did goods from a warehouse carry price stickers?) of anywhere from $1000 to $2000 per speaker. Yes, that is a LOT of money for a speaker.

Your eyes glaze over at the pricetag, and ignore any cheap construction which would set off immediate warning bells (such as a paper speaker cone, or a very light and flimsy enclosure). There certainly wouldn't be a 'glitch at the warehouse' regarding the quantity, at these prices (yet another warning sign!) But, they've got invoices. They've got sticker price tags. They probably have any number of brochures and supposed reviews by major audiophile magazines. Our driver/installers are remarkably well equipped for a sales presentation, aren't they, and since when did brochures come laminated?(yet more warning signs). They've even got a website address for the manufacturer (which has been set up by the ringleader of the scam) and a phone number for the factory where they will happily tell any caller that, yes, those units retail for $2,000 per speaker.

If they think you're an easy mark, these guys are your new best friends, and they want to just make some fast money. What do you know, they'll sell you them for "only" a fraction of the price. They'll let you "drive a hard bargain", ultimately going no lower than about $125 to $200. Your ego is swelling; you've bargained them down to what you think is an insanely low price. Your mind is racing, ignoring the fact that you are buying goods you know nothing about; nothing but greed fills your mind. From people you no nothing about. In a parking lot. Literally off the back of a truck.

If you're wishy-washy and nervous, looking easily intimidated, they'll go into high-pressure mode. They may use intimidating body language, get angry, notch up the sympathy play, and so on. This is actually good, particularly if you're in the parking lot of a bank or ATM; you're afraid they were trying to rob you, right?

You're getting incredibly cheap speakers- or worse, wood boxes that look like speakers, with bricks in them- which you won't discover until you try to plug them into your sound system(which you should never do without checking the impedance of the speaker, to make sure it doesn't short out your amplifier). If they're actually speakers, construction will be cheap with poorly made components and cheap materials throughout. They might even sound half OK to the average person. Sit that same person in front of a real set of $200-$400 speakers, point out the differences, and they'll be left wondering how they could be so stupid.

Despite the fact that anyone who falls for this routine gets exactly what they deserve, (unless of course they were intimidated or felt threatened) don't let this happen to you. Don't let it happen to your friends, family, or coworkers. It's as simple as tomorrow saying to a friend "hey, there are these guys selling speakers out of the backs of vans in mall parking lots, they look like they're a steal but they're crap. Don't fall for it!" These operations move from region to region, moving on once local authorities, newspapers and radio stations catch on, which takes a while.

Some people give up there, and throw them in the attic or the trash. However- just as there are people who are utterly lacking in morals selling the stuff, there are plenty of people who will try to at least recoup their loss, or even worse, make a profit. Here in Boston, these speakers have recently started appearing on the community website Craigslist, as people who have been suckered into buying them realize what they got, and try to get -anything- for them. The degree of honesty the poster displays varies from "I got suckered, does anybody want these" to a near replay of the original scam.

What to do? Well, not much, except spread awareness of the scam. They're not doing anything illegal with the sale itself, so they need to be caught on other grounds. For one, anyone selling goods on private property is liable to get into a lot of trouble with the store owner, so there's an easy trespassing charge; this is why many of the operations have moved to flagging down people on the road or at stoplights. You can try playing along- look interested, maybe take a business card, make a note of the plates on the van- and say you'll think about it while you go and shop or after you check out their website or call the factory. Instead- walk straight to the store customer service desk, mall security, or call the police. Even if the cops have little to to work with, they can be very creative in finding something wrong; air freshner hanging from your rear view mirror? Illegal use of equipment, believe it or not. The first thing the officer will ask for will be identification (and if they're holding fake IDs, they'll probably get arrested for that alone). Perhaps you'll be lucky in that one of these shady characters will have an outstanding warrant. The police officer can also run the plates on the van(during which it will probably be discovered that the van is a rental or lease), and so on. All of that information will be of use to others who got scammed one it is in the police department's records.

The problem is that many police departments have given up trying to go after these fly by night companies, mostly because they're shady, but not illegal "enough". They need to be caught doing other things- trespassing(ie, trying to sell on private property without the owner's permission), assault(ie, physically intimidating or threatening you), speeding or reckless endangerment(such as leaning out the window and trying to flag down cars), etc. The best strategy, if you are scammed, is to go after the scam artists for violation of your state's consumer laws. Such laws, however, often have many clauses which are designed to protect legitimate businesses from unreasonable customers, but instead provide loopholes for scam artists(these include most commonly time limitations and whether you attempted to get a refund). You can also complain to your district attorney, and generally TV stations love to set their "consumer watchdog" reporters on this sort of stuff.

These speakers are made or resold through a complicated reseller network. Some of the many company names involved, consisting of companies in the US, Canada, England, France, Germany, and Australia:

Audio Wood Products
Century Distributors PTY LTD
Dynalab
Global Audio Network
JAM Entertainment/JAM Enterprises, now known as Kelfi Distributors
Millennium Speakers
Omni Audio or Omni Audio Products
Orca Distributors
Republic Distributors, Inc. (parent of Omni and Dynalab) or Republic Distributors Of Canada or Republic Distribution GmbH
Sound Illusion Production
There is at least one class action lawsuit and reportedly one lawfirm has already received a judgement of about $45,000 against Audio Wood Products for failure to pay a company which supplied cloth for the speaker grills.

Remember, folks. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is!
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post #20 of 100 Old 11-14-2006, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Dewd, those magnets aren't strong enough to hold a shopping list to a refrigerator door...

I bought some Biad speakers off a white van. They ROCK!!!

John
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post #21 of 100 Old 11-14-2006, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I bought some Biad speakers off a white van. They ROCK!!!

:-) No they are Tryad's! :-)

This thread is hilarious.

I've had 3 separate people brag to me about how great these speakers they bought in a parking lot for $50 are. One of them being an NFL player. When they tell me what brand they are, it takes everything in me not to laugh in their face. I don't have the heart to tell them about white van speakers.


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post #22 of 100 Old 11-14-2006, 07:29 PM
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A few years ago I was at my son's little league game when I saw two guys selling speakers out of a van. One of the mom's at the game was so excited she was running through the stands telling people about the great deal she was going to get and encouraging others to go check them out. She actually got in her car, went to the ATM to get cash, then came back and bought the speakers. Greed + ignorance is a very powerful combination.

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post #23 of 100 Old 11-14-2006, 09:09 PM
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About 5 years ago I paid $250 for a pair of these speakers. I propbably got the 1st generation of speakers called Acoustic Monitor 3300 Series. LOL, thats all I can do now is laugh about it. No offense but everytime I hear about this happening I lmao. Taught me a lesson though. The first time I googled "white van speakers" and seen what came up, I felt so stupid, I had to laugh. Truly one of the biggest boners I have pulled in my life. Just hilarious.
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post #24 of 100 Old 11-15-2006, 05:37 AM
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A friend of mine at work once bought white van speakers. They aren't bad either... good for partys because they are quite loud with decent bass (actually they sound somewhat like CerwinVega's... whatever that says about CV's). Point is my friend paid $125 for the paid (Cad) and was happy with them until he purchased a new 5.1 set (Energy). As far as he was concerned the $125 was well spent... I can't say as I'd argue with him either.

I had my own White Van experience, but graciously declined their enticing offer. Greed is powerful and I can't say I wasn't somewhat enticed to see what they had to offer.
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post #25 of 100 Old 11-15-2006, 06:14 AM
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DoggDigital seems popular in the parking lot


http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...6_1594crx.aspx
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post #26 of 100 Old 11-15-2006, 06:26 AM
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Quote:


A friend of mine at work once bought white van speakers. They aren't bad either... good for partys because they are quite loud with decent bass (actually they sound somewhat like CerwinVega's... whatever that says about CV's). Point is my friend paid $125 for the paid (Cad) and was happy with them until he purchased a new 5.1 set (Energy). As far as he was concerned the $125 was well spent... I can't say as I'd argue with him either.

To be honest, that's typical of what I hear from people after they find out about this . The thing here to know is that the easiest way to sell something is not to properly demonstrate it's value in a direct comparison , but rather to appeal to peoples greed in that they are buying a speaker that actually could sell for many times what you are getting it for. I heard someone else call it "the illusion of value" and couldn't agree more. Companies have been selling out of the backs of mags with these claims for many years , the differance is that a BROWN van brings them to you. Many companies will advertise something as costing much more when they know they are going to reel you in just by dropping the artificially high price (like car companies), no one thinks you are going to pay what they put on the advertising sheet for those white van speakers. I've seen people choose speaker "a" at $600 over speaker "B" at $800 in a blind comparison but then get conflicted because speaker "B" can be bought for $600 as well. For me, it's a no brainer, buy the one you prefer, but for many the illusion of saving money clouds their judgement.
"

I think it would be generally more useful if everyone new to these forums is reminded that they are constantly being marketed to and pitched by people who post their affiliations and many others who do not. This is all part of marketing and advertising and you, the consumer, are the targets.
Noth...
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post #27 of 100 Old 11-17-2006, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockemsockem View Post

:-) No they are Tryad's! :-)

This thread is hilarious.

I've had 3 separate people brag to me about how great these speakers they bought in a parking lot for $50 are. One of them being an NFL player. When they tell me what brand they are, it takes everything in me not to laugh in their face. I don't have the heart to tell them about white van speakers.

Please he be a Eagle's Player and not a Cowboy
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post #28 of 100 Old 03-17-2007, 07:54 AM
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Been seeing this one a lot lately - Matrix Audio Concepts. Don't they look familiar? They even tricked up a website:

matrixaudioconcepts.com
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post #29 of 100 Old 03-17-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I bought some Biad speakers off a white van. They ROCK!!!

If Triad had any name recognition whatsoever , someone would use "Traid Speakers," a common misspelling. And John...do your Biads rock as much as your NTH speakers??

I had some dumb friends in my musician days who thought they were buying a "hot" TV off the bacl of a white step van. The printed name on the box said "Slyvania." When they got home and opened it, there was a bare picture tube and a cement block.

Sheep were made to be shorn.

Paul Scarpelli
aka TRIAD DUDE

It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

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post #30 of 100 Old 03-17-2007, 09:39 AM
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Back in the late 80's my friends and I were approached by The White Van selling speakers. I grew up in Daytona Beach and my friends and I had just gotten finsihed surfing and were hanging out along the beach. In Daytona cars can drive and park and the beach and these guys were going u and down the beach trying to pull their con.

The interesting part, at least to me, is that my friends and I do not fit the profile mentioned above in any way. 16-17 years old, sitting on the beach in wet boardshorts with surfboards and beachcruiser bicycles. Yeah, like we had any money, but I guess they figured we would be an easy mark - stupid kids...

The descriptions of their MO match my experience with them exactly.
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