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post #3391 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 05:05 PM
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This was all i could get for now
LL
LL
LL

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post #3392 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post

Here are some First Pic's of my new 683's. (Hope this works)

[IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG]





Ah, screw it....it didn't work.

You have upload the pictures somewhere online, say www.photobucket.com and then copy/paste the link in the [img]*[/img] tag. Links off your PC won't work.
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post #3393 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 07:42 PM
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Hey guys, I was looking at the 683s and they seem to be a great speaker. I was just wondering if anyone here is running an Anthem PVA-7 with them in there set-up. Right now I have an older set of Paradigm Monitor 5s in the front and want to upgrade soon. Bad thing is ,if I want to demo any speakers its a 3 hr trip one way. Any opinions would be great!!!
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post #3394 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post



This was all i could get for now

You'll be much happier once you get rid of that Paradigm center and get something that will be a true sonic match.
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post #3395 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TastyHiHatWork View Post

You'll be much happier once you get rid of that Paradigm center and get something that will be a true sonic match.

Mebbe. The 600 series centers are nowhere up to the performance of the main speakers.

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post #3396 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 08:10 PM
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PSBMAN:

Nice speakers sir! What are you using for speaker cable?
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post #3397 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey_Man View Post

My limited experience with B&W speakers make me wish I could afford them. I heard the 800 series at the local stereo shoppe before it closed. It made my klipsch reference series sound like poop. The imaging was unreal.

B&W sounds awesome for music but are they overkill for HT?

It really depends on how fat your wallet is. If it's going to sound great in audio, there's no reason why it shouldn't in HT. Moreover, whether it's worth it to spend that much for the improvement in HT sound is very subjective and personal.
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post #3398 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post

I'm a little confused. You say the Onkyo TX-SR805 is very limiting, but than say that you doubt that the DAC's are better in the Pioneer because the Onkyo is supposed to sound nice.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that. English is not my native language..
I meant very limiting compared to the "faults" (if any) the Pioneer introduces as a digital transport
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post #3399 of 19244 Old 11-11-2008, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megasat16 View Post

What makes you say ths 800D are not the real 800 series speaker? These are one of the most beautifully designed and astounding speakers in the 800 series as far as I know. You want to fill in for what I am missing here?

Again, I can see I didn't express myself good enough here.
I didn't mean that the B&W 800-series in black isn't real B&W 800-series speakers in all aspects. I just feel that that the black color makes them look cheap and ordinary and that the speaker completely looses the feeling of quality, class and what makes them look so special and B&W 800-series like.

It's like bying a white Ferrari - it's just not the same thing as the classic red colored ones.
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post #3400 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

PSBMAN:

Nice speakers sir! What are you using for speaker cable?


Thanks!

I'm using Ultra Link Advanced Performance Bi-wire cables.

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post #3401 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TastyHiHatWork View Post

You'll be much happier once you get rid of that Paradigm center and get something that will be a true sonic match.


Ya, the HTM61 is next on the list. Before Christmas. I hope it sounds as good as the Paradigm CC-390.

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post #3402 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 07:03 AM
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Is the HTM61 that bad of a center? Would i be better off with the Paradigm CC-390?

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post #3403 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post

Ya, the HTM61 is next on the list. Before Christmas. I hope it sounds as good as the Paradigm CC-390.

lol i just feel like the paradigm is a much better center. Yes the HTM61 would be a better sonic match, but would it be as good....i think you might find some dissapointment
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post #3404 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigred7078 View Post

lol i just feel like the paradigm is a much better center. Yes the HTM61 would be a better sonic match, but would it be as good....i think you might find some dissapointment


I was afraid of that. I really like the Paradigm. But i've never had a matching center for any of my fronts. I think it's just a matter now of wanting everything from the same line. I'll get the 685 as rears after x-mas.

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post #3405 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post

I was afraid of that. I really like the Paradigm. But i've never had a matching center for any of my fronts. I think it's just a matter now of wanting everything from the same line. I'll get the 685 as rears after x-mas.

Consider the following for the center: 685, HTM7, another 683 (if it will fit standing up).

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post #3406 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 11:24 AM
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The HTM61 is the only speaker of good quality that I have had in my life that I can only classify as bad, and it isn't even remotely close to the DM683 regarding sonically matching. There is even a review in one online magazine that states the same, and backs it up with measurements showing the HTM61 to be completely different sonically than the DM683s. The DM683 is open and detailed, while the HTM61 is closed and muffled with no detail compared to DM683 and other good center channel speakers. I just had to get rid of it because it completely ruined the sound of my HT compared to the DM683s running phantom center.

Then I bought the HTM4S and the sound is almost identically sonically as the DM683, even though the HTM4S is even more detailed. The HTM4S actually increases the HT-experience, while the HTM61 completely ruined it.
Maybe the HTM7 is the middle way price- and performance wise, but I don't know since I haven't compared it with the other two at home.

But I strongly recommend against buying the HTM61, it's a waste of money and you'll never reach the potential of your HT which you have laid the building blocks for with the excellent choice of front speakers you have made.
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post #3407 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 12:11 PM
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Well........

That sucks. How much is the HTM4S retail? I heard that the HTM7 is not all that hot either. I might just keep the Paradigm.

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post #3408 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSBMAN View Post

Well........

That sucks. How much is the HTM4S retail? I heard that the HTM7 is not all that hot either. I might just keep the Paradigm.

I have the following as a bedroom set-up:

DM604, 2 each
LCR6 S2, 1 each
ASW3000, 1 each
NAUTILUS HTM2, 1 each
CCM 817, 4 each

The HTM2 is very similar to the HTM4S, and I don't remember it costing that much. I use it as part of a dual center set-up with the HTM2 on top and the LCR6 on bottom. All the B&W lines seem to blend well w/o any hand-off or other problems that you would sometimes hear with using different brands of speakers or using same brand but different lines in a HT set-up.

That's too bad about the poor reviews of the HTM61, but it's good info. to know.
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post #3409 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 01:23 PM
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That's why i love this thread. Information and we can all talk to each other about our gear.....good or bad. I''ll look into the HTM2.

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post #3410 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 04:43 PM
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I have an HTM61 between my 683s in my sound treated theater and I think they sound great together. You've got to audition them in your home in order for you to know if they are right for you PSBMAN.
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post #3411 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 04:47 PM
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I guess it would be ideal to have at least 2 or 3 center's from the Different B&W lines to see which one would work best for me. I can't wait to see the look on my dealer's(great guy by the way) face when i ask for a few grand worth of center's to demo.

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post #3412 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 05:04 PM
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Well I called the dealer closest to where I live here in Canada, and he told me that a pair of 683s go for $1700 can. It seems to me I saw a few people were getting them for around $1400, am I wrong or just getting took???
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post #3413 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 05:35 PM
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The MSRP in Canada i believe is 1799.00. I got my pair for 1500.00 which is around 17% off. I was happy with the dealer i decided to deal with, a great guy and knows his stuff. IMO finding a dealer you can trust is half the battle. I called him up and asked for a fair price, as i know he needs to make money too. I took the price he offered and he knows he's the guy i'm going to give my future upgrades to. I'm still on the fence about the center, but i'm going to get the 685's as rear's and an amp at some point down the line. If your serious about picking up a pair, go in with the coin and show him your serious. I will bet money he will come down a bit more.
Also keep in mind that i CALLED him and asked nicely if he would talk pricing over the phone as it was a long drive for me to get there. I was very impressed that he took my word only that i was going to buy them. He ordered them for me and the rest is history.
Most dealers won't do that. I think you'll have better luck just going in and talking to them....if it's not too far away.

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post #3414 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DucatiDad View Post

I have an HTM61 between my 683s in my sound treated theater and I think they sound great together. You've got to audition them in your home in order for you to know if they are right for you PSBMAN.

Ditto for me. Extremely happy with my 683 fronts and htm61. I will say that when I start listening to 2 channel music in 7.1 surround then switch to 2 channel...oh yeah, big difference...and not a good difference. With a movie in surround...life is good...real good!
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post #3415 of 19244 Old 11-12-2008, 10:51 PM
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FYI: here is the review I wrote about:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/108bw/

It's a test of a complete system with 683, HTM61, 685 and a B&W sub.

This review concludes with the exact same thing I experienced with the HTM61. Too bad I didn't read this review before AFTER I bought it and had realized it was so bad compared to the DM683 alone set up with mm accuracy in a likesided triangle with the resulting seamless stereoperspective where the speakers could not be localized and all instruments and elements in the soundfield placed accurately in between (this also includes voices nailed in the middle in movies)
which of course is only valid if I sit in the sweetspot, and thats why I had to get the HTM4S.

"At the Movies
I'd like to say that this aspect of the B&W's performance was glitch-free, but it was not. The final result, as you will see, turned out fine, but not with the configuration I had planned on.

The problem was the HTM61 center channel speaker. Despite the pedigree offered by its FST midrange, it blended poorly with the left and right 683s. Its sound was thicker, duller, and less open—a characteristic that was different depending on whether I was seated on-axis or off to the left or right by about 30-degrees (it was also different in the two directions). This not only reduced dialog intelligibility but also significantly reduced the "jump factor" of the whole system in full surround mode. Yes, the HTM61 was stand mounted below the screen, which placed it less than two feet from the floor/ But that position has worked well with innumerable center channel designs that have lived there before.

What the measurements will show remains to be seen, but a few basic in-room measurements indicated nothing obviously defective about our sample of the HTM61.

When I substituted the similarly priced Revel Concerta C12 for the HTM61 the soundstage and clarity opened up considerably. In fact I lived with that setup for a couple of weeks as I reviewed other gear and movies on the system.

But that setup was hardly appropriate for this review. So when I got down to serious business I tried something else. The vital front channels and the subwoofer, of course, had to be all B&W. So I pulled one of the 685s from surround duty and pressed it into service as a center channel. But this did leave me without a matched set of B&W surrounds. So I used a pair of Revel M12s, a very similar two-way, stand mounted design, as substitute surrounds (and only slightly pricier than the 685s, at $698/pair). This did not, in my judgment, affect the overall sonic performance of the system significantly, and I had already determined that the 685s can do an excellent job as direct-radiating surrounds. "


Comments on the measurements they made (the curves are in the review)

"The averaged response of the HTM61 (violet curve, Figs. 3a and 3b) shows a significant dip from about 2kHz to 7kHz, making the speaker a poor spectral match for the left and right 683s. While bench-test results don't always correlate with listening tests, they do here. The lack of presence and voice intelligibility I heard could almost be predicted by the frequency response. However, the HTM61 is more uniform from 66Hz to 1.6kHz (+/-1.3dB) than the 683, even though the two speakers use the same midrange driver."
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post #3416 of 19244 Old 11-13-2008, 12:06 AM
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First of all there are no DM683 or DM685, there are only 683 and 685.

HTM61 is a very good center channel speaker. It needs burning, after that you may match it with 804s.

I had an 683's matched with HTM61 they were great, and than I used Htm61 with 703's. They were great too. Now I am matching them with 804s, and still great.

All silly things said about the HTM61 is a legend. They are not true. Just go and listen, you will see the difference.

In the review, all the complaints about the htm61 sounded like unburned speaker.
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post #3417 of 19244 Old 11-13-2008, 01:27 AM
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I have never auditioned B&Ws, are they comparable to wharfedale's opus line?

GamerTag= Phaleronic
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post #3418 of 19244 Old 11-13-2008, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altanpsx View Post

First of all there are no DM683 or DM685, there are only 683 and 685.

HTM61 is a very good center channel speaker. It needs burning, after that you may match it with 804s.

I had an 683's matched with HTM61 they were great, and than I used Htm61 with 703's. They were great too. Now I am matching them with 804s, and still great.

All silly things said about the HTM61 is a legend. They are not true. Just go and listen, you will see the difference.

In the review, all the complaints about the htm61 sounded like unburned speaker.

How can you call this a legend??? There are even good measurements that clearly show the problems with this speaker!

It's seems to me that you haven't compared it to a really good center channel speaker in your own setup. If you had you wouldn't come to this conclusion. I am extremely cautious about speaker placement, and measure, calibrate and experiment with different placements to get the most immersive experience. A compromise in speaker placement is never acceptable, a habit I have gotten from when I had a dedicated stereo setup with the 802Ds.
I believe I got the most from HTM61, it was used for a month, and although there was a very slight improvement in sound it was never up to the levels I demand for a supplement to the 683's. I even tried the HTM61 with an Electrocompaniet AW400 monoamp to see if high-end power could improve its performance to somewhat acceptable levels. The HTM4S really destroyed it straight from the box without any kind of burn-in.

After seeing a lot of pictures of different setups here, I can see that many of you doesn't have correct speaker placement at all so I suspect many of you haven't placed the 683s perfectly like you should, and therefore doesn't hear how much worse the HTM61 is if you turn it off and try phantom center (when sitting in sweetspot of course)
If the sound gets any kind of worse when switching between phantom center and center, like less clear dialogue, smaller soundfield or something, then the center channels actually lessens the experience. (Important that you actually turn the center off in the receiver setup, and not use something like "stereo mode" or something)
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post #3419 of 19244 Old 11-13-2008, 03:30 AM
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I call this as a legend because I am using it, and I do not have any of this issues.

No other measurment is better then my ear to me, and trust me I know how to place my speakers.

There is no wonder HTM4s can destroy htm61. HTM4S 4-5 times expensive.

I really wonder if you ever used 683, and htm61 (not dm683 or dm685).


Just believe in your ears, all the reviews, and all the experience is junk. Only your ears will tell the truth.
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post #3420 of 19244 Old 11-13-2008, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altanpsx View Post

I call this as a legend because I am using it, and I do not have any of this issues.

No other measurment is better then my ear to me, and trust me I know how to place my speakers.

There is no wonder HTM4s can destroy htm61. HTM4S 4-5 times expensive.

I really wonder if you ever used 683, and htm61 (not dm683 or dm685).


Just believe in your ears, all the reviews, and all the experience is junk. Only your ears will tell the truth.

This isn't an "issue". This is just how HTM61 is.
The only thing one can get from what you say is that you are very happy with it, which is good for you. But it's still a bad center channel speaker compared to similary priced good ones. I'm not saying that you can't be happy with HTM61, only that you'll loose a lot of the HT experience compared to a good center channel speaker, and that if you can choose there are much better alternatives on the market (which cannot be said about the 683s)

The comparison to HTM4S (which costs 3 times more in Norway, not 4-5 times) is reasonable because the performance difference is much larger (I would say unnormally large) between HTM61 and HTM4S than between the 683s and three times more expensive speakers.

I had a complete setup with:

B&W 683 in front (for half a year, now I'm using B&W 805S)
HTM61 (now HTM4S)
B&W 685 back
SVS PC13-Ultra

Yamaha RX-V1800
Electrocompaniet AW400 monoamps for the fronts
Slimdevices Transporter for music
Kimber Kable Monocle XL HT-cables

I can assure you that the 683's probably never get as good electronics as this to drive them (my old B&W 802D setup electronics exept the pre-amp, the AW400 costs more than 6 times the price of the 683's here in Norway), and the sound was shockingly good for a speaker at this price after truly getting them positioned perfectly.

A bad picture of my old setup:

LL
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