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post #5851 of 18822 Old 01-08-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post

If I didn't buy the 804S/HTM3S when I did, there's no way I'd spend $5000 more for the 804D/HTM2D. With those prices, I'd have to go with the smaller 805D/HTM4D.

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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post

803 Diamond £7,500 per pair (US $12,000)
805 Diamond £3,750 per pair (US $6,000)
HTM2 Diamond £3,950 each (US $6,300)

Indeed. Thats why I am perfectly happy to purchase the 80xS series units at a demo-used-bstock discount. The come with the full warranty - so if there is an electrical/driver problem, those will get fixed. The cabinets are rock solid other than 2 cosmetic issues that one will never see unless dusting the cabinets for prints.

So I'm having 2x803S, 2x805S, and 1x HTM3D for under $10k (with the 25% b-stock discount), as opposed to waiting and getting 2x803D, 2x805D and 1x HTM2D for about $22k (assuming 10% off sale). I know there is no way the new line is over 2x better than what I'm in possession of now.


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Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

Odd really. Most people are rather offset by the tweeter which is described as "shrill" at first.

What you might be experiencing in the slightly "rounder" mid section B&W's have. They are warmer in the middle, which makes them louder there. This MIGHT be what make it sound muddy to you.

What amp are you using to drive the 803's?

Might I suggest listening to a single instrument like a piano, a female voice, or solo guitar and form your opinions this way. I'm partial to Diana Krall myself.

I suspect it may be the fuller midrange. As I had mentioned, I'm hearing things in the mid range I'd not been able to hear before: voices that have more gravel to them for example, which were more uniform with the Infinity RS-3001 units. The ratio of mid to high is shifted, and its a matter of me getting accustomed to the new balance. If need be, I can always color things up a bit with equalization if I really feel the need, but the fact that my 3 fronts and 2 surrounds now have the same color/timbre is where the value is for me.. that and they are so freaking beautiful, which played no small part in my purchase decision. (which reminds me, once I'm certain I'm keeping them in the next few days, I'll need to post my speaker-porn photos)

Two days ago I undertook some more focused critical listening. I pulled out some music I was familiar with, some classical and hard rock and listened to the passages via my Senheisser headphones and via the speakers, and that told me the speakers were doing what they should. Typically its the headphones sounding much better than speakers, but in this case, the sounded the same. Its the bright nature of the Infinity bookshelf speakers that I'm missing.
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post #5852 of 18822 Old 01-08-2010, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

In 2002 I bought the original 802N's for $7200. ($8000 MSRP)

That's 11.3% inflation per year! Reasonable? I think not. Especially since the high end market has bottomed out so hard.

Like I said, B&W should have made an 800 line and a 900 line and kept them seperate. They are leaving a lot of us out in the cold.

I would tell everyone to write B&W and let them know your thoughts on the new pricing structure. But something tells me they would laugh in our face.

Like with anything else, you let them know by spending...or in the case not spending and not buying the newer speakers. Once these are released, if they see sales going down in the 800-series, then they may take action and re-align prices, but I doubt there will be something new between the CM and 800, as the 700-series has been discontinued.
Back when I purchased mine, I told the dealer if there was an 804D for $1000 more in price per speaker, then I'd consider it, but that would just be replacing the S tweeter with the D tweeter. But since these new 800-Diamond speakers have new tweeters with better magnets, changes to the mid and bass drivers, new crossovers and binding-posts, that all plays together for the higher price.
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post #5853 of 18822 Old 01-08-2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphasia View Post

They seriously need something to go in between the CM-series and the new 800-series. Unless they do I can imagine people going somewhere else with thir money since there are a quite a few alternatives in that range, especially for a full surround setup. With the entry point at $6000 its a seriously expensive setup.

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Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

Sanus
Revel
Wilson
Come immediately to mind.
And the list goes on and on and on.

They really need to make these 900 series and leave the 800 alone. Or rename the old 800s as the new 700 series. They are pricing themselves out.

I did a little math, and the price of the 800 series is rising at a rate triple of inflation. They must think they are Rolex.

There certainly will be more consideration for "alternatives" given the new 800 prices, but you have got to be kidding about Wilson! Wilson Audio speakers have risen way more comparatively the past few years, and are much more expensive than B&Ws overall. The new Sashas cost about double what the new 800 Diamonds cost, just to put it in perspective. Consumers may be looking for alternatives to B&W (or perhaps just the 800 Diamond series) because of the new costs, but they certainly won't be running to Wilson if price is the issue!

Your little inflation "math" also doesn't fly since the prices we're talking are for the NEW models, not the old ones. A 802N does not equal a 802D which does not equal a 802 Diamond, and a 805S certainly does not equal a 805 Diamond.

Having said that, I'm not a fan of the new 800 Diamond prices either, though what really irks me are the design changes. The silver "bezels" around the drivers just cheapens the overall look of the 800 series to me, reminding me somewhat of car audio. Not a fan of the "silver bullet" either, but that's relatively minor. I was toying with the idea of possibly "upgrading" my 805Ss to 805 Diamonds for my rears so that it may sonically match better with the diamond tweeters in my 802D fronts. But having seen the new design, I'm completely turned off it, and certainly I highly doubt any sonic improvement as a rear speaker could justify the $6K price tag in any case. But even if the price wasn't so steep, looks matter, and the new design touches seem like a downgrade to me.
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post #5854 of 18822 Old 01-08-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post

Press Release with more info and prices:

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/med/Li...mond_UK_PR.pdf

800 Diamond £18,500 per pair (US $29,000)
802 Diamond £11,500 per pair (US $18,400)
803 Diamond £7,500 per pair (US $12,000)
804 Diamond £5,750 per pair (US $9,100)
805 Diamond £3,750 per pair (US $6,000)
HTM2 Diamond £3,950 each (US $6,300)
HTM4 Diamond £1,950 each (US $3,100)

That's a bit more than was posted earlier:

800: $24,000.00/pair USD
802: $15,000.00/pair USD
803: $10,000.00/pair USD
804: $7,500.00/pair USD
805: $5,000.00/pair USD
HTM2: $5,000.00ea USD
HTM4: $2,750.00ea USD

Guys...don't want to qibble over a few Euro's but the numbers that were orginially quoted are correct (Based on my dealer and my calculations). Who ever did the exchange coversion is slightly off. The rate in the B&W press release is in Euro's despite the fact the company is in the U.K. (Where the British Pound is still in use). The current excahnge rate is one Euro is equal to 1.4273 U.S.D. (http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html#).

I think what is really driving the price change is the exchange rate. The US dollar is generally being killed by the Euro due to our rising debt. So B&W is trying to hedge by inflating the prices to cover the variation in excahnge rates for the next year or so.

However, I will agree they are changing poterntial buyers purchasing decisions with this price increase. I personally was considering a pair of the HTM4S (because of my bookshelf application) prior to B&W's redsign on to the HTM4D. At $5500 for a pair of the D's versus $3300 for the "S" I'm rethinking that thought and considering the CT 7.4's, a step down for sure in apperance, but sound is similar and I may not be able to detect a $2200 difference in sound but I will feel the difference in my bank account.

Thanks,
Ed

Mid 2010 Mac Mini>B&W 805Di> Rotel RSX-1560> Harmony 890> iPad (4th gen.)
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post #5855 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post

I haven't seen this posted but here are some new B&W products:

MM-1 Computer Speakers
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=4503

P5 Mobile Hi-Fi Headphones
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=4534

What's interesting is that I'm in need of new PC speakers, as my JBL Media 3 speakers from '98 aren't working that great, and my Sony headphones ($250 from '96) are starting to fall apart.
I wonder when the MM-1 and P5 will be avaliable and what the prices are.

After looking at some news stories for CES this week, it looks like the MM-1 computer speakers will be $450-500 and the P5 headphones about $250-300.

Since I'm in need of new PC speakers and headphones, I might look at getting the MM-1, but get a "normal" pair of headphones for under $100. I'll have to contact my dealer and see when they can get them and what their price will be.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallif...pe=allchandate

http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/10/01...eakers.at.ces/
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post #5856 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 08:07 AM
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I just bought the the HTM4s, i would like to know any special on the original jumper?

Need replace other one for improve the performance?

Thanks for help
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post #5857 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalGriffin View Post

Sanus
Revel
Wilson
Come immediately to mind.
And the list goes on and on and on.

They really need to make these 900 series and leave the 800 alone. Or rename the old 800s as the new 700 series. They are pricing themselves out.

I did a little math, and the price of the 800 series is rising at a rate triple of inflation. They must think they are Rolex.

On top of the current price raise, they already did an almost 10% price raise last summer here in sweden. And now they will be just a tad too expensive.

At times i wish i would have taken the step to get 804s and HTM3 instead of the 703's, but with the current pricing it kindof hard to justify the upgrade compared to when buying new. Had i had 6xx-series i would have jumped. There are loads of demo-ex's of tyhe 804s for a rather good price, but only in different wood veneers, cherry and rose, etc, but i like the black ash, but they are seldom seen in the stores, if ever.
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post #5858 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 03:37 PM
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Well... they're insane. Pricing of new 800 series makes me . I was too late to grab 703s. As I don't accept popular idea of 'English design made in P.R.C.' I decided to wait little bit longer (= saving money) and purchase 804s. Once again I'm not quick enough for famous UK company.

As I won't ever buy ex-demo/b-stock loudspeakers (especially at this price level) all I have to say: bye bye B&W! I'll spend my money somewhere else.

And £3,750 for small bedroom speaker? Yeah - right!
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post #5859 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 06:25 PM
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A few months ago I bought a small two channel system for our living room, the Marantz pm 8003 amp, Marantz 5003 cd player and some Paradigm Atom Monitor v6. The Atoms sounded too small and lacked bass, so I exchanged them for the Studio 10 v5. The Studio 10's have alot of tweeter hiss which I would like to get rid of. I was thinking of trying the CM-1, has anyone compared the two?
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post #5860 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 06:52 PM
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New series is looking good.






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post #5861 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 07:54 PM
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First of all, terrific site and thread. Not a whole lot out there that bests this thread for B&W information and advice.

I'm a new, really accidental , B&W owner.

I finally convinced the wife, after our 10+ year-old shelf system bit the proverbial dust, to let me build a real home theater system.

Initial budget: $500. (I know, but don't laugh, not yet.)

I've been into car audio for years, but this was my first foray into home theater. I figured I would end up with a blu-ray HTIB, and looked high and low for a decent one, but found them all lacking. The wife liked the HTIB idea, but the more I shopped, the more I determined that a component setup would be best. I just had to figure out how to get the most for my $500 budget.......

The audio gods must have been smiling on me, as this is what I've gathered:
  • Harman/Kardon AVR254 - $220 open-box buy at Best Buy
  • Second Samsung BD-1600 Blu-Ray player - $100 open box at Best Buy

Now, the B&Ws were located, surprisingly, on a local "garage sale" website, and were just a few miles from my house:
  • Three LCR6 S2s, in pristine condition (almost) - $325
  • One ASW 2500 10" subwoofer in perfect condition - $250

So, for a grand total of under $900, I got the core of a respectable HT system. So I blew the budget, the wife understands a good deal when she hears one.



I'm now in the market for some DM601 S2s for my rears, for a 5.1 system. I may eventually add another pair for the 7.1 setup.

However, as the pics show (sorry for the poor image quality), I'm limited in how much imaging and placement I can do in my current house and living room. I truly believe that "armoire" is French for "small TV for husband". The ASW is hiding behind the LCR on the right.

We'll hopefully be in a new, larger house by Spring. A larger living room or dedicated game/media room would be ideal.....

Anyhow, just wanted to introduce myself and tell you all how great the thread is.

Thanks for the space.

--Ryan
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post #5862 of 18822 Old 01-09-2010, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btf1980 View Post

New series is looking good.

When I saw those images posted to the B&W site a few days ago, I thought "Yeah, you'd have to now be rich enough to live in a place like that to afford the new speakers". lol

But I wonder if there's any reason the black-metal bullets in the FST was replaced with a silver-metal looking one. Is it only for looks or does it effect the sound?
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post #5863 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post

When I saw those images posted to the B&W site a few days ago, I thought "Yeah, you'd have to now be rich enough to live in a place like that to afford the new speakers". lol

But I wonder if there's any reason the black-metal bullets in the FST was replaced with a silver-metal looking one. Is it only for looks or does it effect the sound?

Just a wild guess... I would say that there won't be much difference in the sound between the old D series and the new Diamond series. I'm sure some will be able to hear the improvement in certain situations with certain music. Marketing will make sure that everybody hears a "night and day" difference.

The 804 and 805 Diamonds are the real story. These should provide a perfect match for those with the D series looking for smaller speakers for surrounds and rears.
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post #5864 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieU View Post

Just a wild guess... I would say that there won't be much difference in the sound between the old D series and the new Diamond series. I'm sure some will be able to hear the improvement in certain situations with certain music. Marketing will make sure that everybody hears a "night and day" difference.

The 804 and 805 Diamonds are the real story. These should provide a perfect match for those with the D series looking for smaller speakers for surrounds and rears.

Agreed. 805D certainly gives those "on the fence" about supreme sound reproduction a chance to take part.

Consumers will complain about anything that goes up in price. These are the Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bentley or Porsche of the Audio Industry. Now the whole 800 series has bling.

Just wait for the other guy who wants to upgrade and grab up his 2009 and older 800 series.. Or find a dealer who has a good upgrade plan.

McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
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post #5865 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 08:34 AM
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I can't get past the new bling, all those silver rings are distracting, especially the one around the flow port. For the most part the grill will cover but it still leaves the ring around the tweeter. I wonder if it can be swapped with a spare from the 802D? The new styling is not HT friendly.

The 800D series were more solid, brawnier looking speakers. These new ones look a little metro. When it comes to styling B&W is definitely a European company.
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post #5866 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 09:00 AM
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post #5867 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

The 800D series were more solid, brawnier looking speakers. These new ones look a little metro.



I have to say I agree completely! They do look a little limped-wrist, especially compared to the previous incarnation. They should have kept that "bling"-style with the CM series where it belongs.

No offense to anyone, but the CM series seemed to me to appeal to the "younger", "metro" crowd that are into "lifestyle" and design, but whom also want quality speakers. The 800 series to me were for people who were serious about the sound, but also wanted a tasteful, though not dull and boring, look. Now the new 800s seem a little too "ghetto-fabulous" to me.
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post #5868 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KyaDawn View Post



I have to say I agree completely! They do look a little limped-wrist, especially compared to the previous incarnation. They should have kept that "bling"-style with the CM series where it belongs.

No offense to anyone, but the CM series seemed to me to appeal to the "younger", "metro" crowd that are into "lifestyle" and design, but whom also want quality speakers. The 800 series to me were for people who were serious about the sound, but also wanted a tasteful, though not dull and boring, look. Now the new 800s seem a little too "ghetto-fabulous" to me.

LOL you guys crack me up.

Ghettofabulous and Bling are "in" and you both indicate to forum or at least me that you're losing your sense of youth.

I am a young audio nut! and I will inherit the Audio of today's speakers and electronics. How else will they stay in business if they don't convice me that I need a set of 20K speakers?? Because that is what I really need, right!!?

If company stagnates itself with one model it will die. They always have to evolve and be everchanging to draw in new clientel. Think Ford would be around if the kept the Model T all these years?

Anyways to each his own, and I can understand that you may not like the latest edition. Hey there is alot more to worry about, ipods still hold gigabytes of crappy compressed music.. and I might even play some of it through those 802Ds! MWahahahaha

McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
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post #5869 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyaDawn View Post



I have to say I agree completely! They do look a little limped-wrist, especially compared to the previous incarnation.

Is there any point in airing your homophobia in an audio forum? If you don't like the way the speakers look, fine, that's your opinion.

AT&T U-Verse Northeast Ohio

Denon x4000, Samsung LED TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, etc.
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post #5870 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oOOBillO0o View Post

LOL you guys crack me up.

Ghettofabulous and Bling are "in" and you both indicate to forum or at least me that you're losing your sense of youth.

I am a young audio nut! and I will inherit the Audio of today's speakers and electronics. How else will they stay in business if they don't convice me that I need a set of 20K speakers?? Because that is what I really need, right!!?

If company stagnates itself with one model it will die. They always have to evolve and be everchanging to draw in new clientel. Think Ford would be around if the kept the Model T all these years?

Anyways to each his own, and I can understand that you may not like the latest edition. Hey there is alot more to worry about, ipods still hold gigabytes of crappy compressed music.. and I might even play some of it through those 802Ds! MWahahahaha

Yeah, maybe it's symptomatic of my mid life crisis. I personally prefer the old look of the D series better. For two channel I could probably warm up to the new look, but for HT use the silver is just asking to shimmer.

It would be nice if B&W offered an HT trim package.

I'm pretty sure you can still by an F350 in all black though. Now imagine they wrapped the lights, door handles, windows etc. in silver bling.
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post #5871 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Raldeby View Post

Except of course for the "official unofficial spokesman" PULLIMANN, who is tireless in his pursuit of spreading the B&W love to any and all and for make benefit glorious nation of B&W.

Now THAT'S funny!

Sounds good!
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post #5872 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Yeah, maybe it's symptomatic of my mid life crisis.

I don't think you're too far gone or otherwise, you'd be lining up for these puppies!
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post #5873 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Is there any point in airing your homophobia in an audio forum? If you don't like the way the speakers look, fine, that's your opinion.

Perhaps a misleading choice of words. Would "fey" be more appropriate?

But "homophobia"?! Please, is there any point in airing your rainbow-flag waving hysteria in an audio forum? And not everyone with a limp-wrist is gay, some may just have orthopedic issues!
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post #5874 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 06:54 PM
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The silver-ring on the new 800-Diamonds are not nearly as wide or noticeable as the ones on the CM. I think it gives the 800-Diamonds a more "modern" look. A ghetto "bling" look would be MUCH more pronounced. I'm thinking that when my dealer gets them in, that I might drive up and try out the 804D and see if I can tell a difference between those as the 804S. But even if I were to hear a MAJOR difference, I'd still keep my 804S/HTM3S for years to come. The next audio component I was looking to replace my was Adcom 5-Disc CD player, maybe with something like a Marantz Reference Series (15S2, 11S2, KI Pearl).
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post #5875 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by KyaDawn View Post

I don't think you're too far gone or otherwise, you'd be lining up for these puppies!

I have a 1/3 deposit down on a 7 channel B&W speaker system consisting of 802Ds/HTM2D up front. My dealer says he has been holding the 802Ds for me and has had to tell other sales guys my pair are off limits. He will let me upgrade for the price difference as they wont have any problem selling the existing line, and of course if they didn't keep an HTM2D reserved to match then the decision becomes a lot easier.

So now I have a choice to make: go for the new tech with the added bling, or stay with the previous gen. tech and my preferred styling. It's a tough choice because I value both aspects.
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post #5876 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

I have a 1/3 deposit down on a 7 channel B&W speaker system consisting of 802Ds/HTM2D up front. My dealer says he has been holding the 802Ds for me and has had to tell other sales guys my pair are off limits. He will let me upgrade for the price difference as they wont have any problem selling the existing line, and of course if they didn't keep an HTM2D reserved to match then the decision becomes a lot easier.

So now I have a choice to make: go for the new tech with the added bling, or stay with the previous gen. tech and my preferred styling. It's a tough choice because I value both aspects.

That's a tough choice. Probably the best way to proceed is to demo the new 802 Diamonds first as well as the new HTM2 Diamond to see if you like the sound better, and if it's worth the price differential. If so, personally I would go for performance. Overall, the silver rings are not a HUGE difference, the overall shape and form is still the same, and of course, you can keep the grilles on. No such luck for the tweeter, though maybe a little "magic marker" would help if you're going with the piano black!

At the same time, what are you going with for the surrounds? If it means "upgrading" from the 805S to the 805 Diamond, that in itself is pretty steep!
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post #5877 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 07:27 PM
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post #5878 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyaDawn View Post

...Overall, the silver rings are not a HUGE difference, the overall shape and form is still the same, and of course, you can keep the grilles on. No such luck for the tweeter, though maybe a little "magic marker" would help if you're going with the piano black!

At the same time, what are you going with for the surrounds? If it means "upgrading" from the 805S to the 805 Diamond, that in itself is pretty steep!

Assuming the tweeter ring does shimmer, I was wondering if a spare from the 802D might fit. Other than finish they look identical.

You might think this heresy but I went with CWM8180s for the four surrounds as I really had no choice for the two rears, and the side surrounds allowed for better furniture placement. I bought the back boxes though, they are already installed.
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post #5879 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
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For those of us who don't like the increase in price in the new 800-Diamond line, here is something to think about.....

Since most (if not all) other B&W speakers are now made in China, partly to keep cost under control, what would you think if the 800-Diamond Series were also made in China, thus lowering the price? Would it be worth it to not spend as much, but then knowing they are not "Made in England"?

Just something to think about.
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post #5880 of 18822 Old 01-10-2010, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Yeah, maybe it's symptomatic of my mid life crisis. I personally prefer the old look of the D series better. For two channel I could probably warm up to the new look, but for HT use the silver is just asking to shimmer.

It would be nice if B&W offered an HT trim package.

I'm pretty sure you can still by an F350 in all black though. Now imagine they wrapped the lights, door handles, windows etc. in silver bling.

you can get the Harley Davidson Edition F350..



or modify your own..




McIntosh Labs! What am I listening to?
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