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m3rcy's Avatar m3rcy 01:30 PM 01-08-2011
The replacement driver unit is ZZ13358- 543.00 each. Is it worth paying or should I try to find a replacement unit from another manufacture? Does anyone know of a place in the New York area that can recone speakers?

Emig5m's Avatar Emig5m 02:47 PM 01-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by handruin View Post

I just got my CM9s hooked up and the audio dealer let me take home both the CMC and CMC2 to demo for my center channel. So far I actually like the CMC better than the CMC2. I'm finding the CMC2 to be too boomy/bassy in my environment which is distracting me from enjoying movies. The dialog vocal seem really throaty and deep. At about twice the price of the CMC, I'm not sold on it for my environment. Has anyone else compared the two together? I don't know if it's just that I'm not familiar with a decent center channel that I find the larger CMC 2 to be distracting? I even had the center channel sitting out on top of my entertainment center, so it wasn't boxed inside a shelf. The unit I'm demoing was a return from a different customer. I wonder if there was something wrong with the speaker which is why they also returned it. I listened up close and could tell all the speakers were functioning and it doesn't look damaged.

I actually thought the same thing with the CMC2 at Best Buy but I chalked that up to being a system that was thrown together with no regard to tweaking with god knows what settings where messed with by customers playing around. Totally different than my HTM3S which is just about as clean, clear, and airy as you could ever imagine. But the CMC2 at Best Buy was exactly like you explained "boomy/bassy -- dialog vocal seem really throaty and deep".
Emig5m's Avatar Emig5m 02:49 PM 01-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JN99 View Post

I've been looking to upgrade my 683s, which I absolutley love, with 804s for awhile now. I just don't want to spring for the cost of the new 804D so I have been looking at the used market.

I have recently come across a pair of 804n and can get them for much less than I am finding 804s going for. However, I am not at all familiar with the sound of the n series like I am the s. I have owned a pair of 805s and still have the 683 as mentioned. A the time I bought the 683 I opted to pass on the 804 as the upgrade in sound seemed greater than the cost to me and saved some money for electronics at the time as well. Still, they were the ones I wanted to one day buy.

So my question to those of you that have actually listedned to them both, is how different are they, 804n vs 804s? If you can describe how you think they sound different that would be appreciated too. Will they still be a considerable upgrade to the 683? I found the 804s gave just a little bit more of everything I liked in the 683 but still find the 683 to be an excellent speaker, especially for the price. I definitely don't want to move into the 804n and find out I like them not only less than the 804s but also less than my 683.

Thx

Someone on another forum mentioned that they always hated the n804 but thought the 804S was much MUCH better than the n804. If I run across the post again, I'll post the link back here. BTW, I was also a 683 owner that jumped up to the 804S.
handruin's Avatar handruin 04:57 PM 01-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Could be something wrong. Do you have an AVR with an EQ and graph function? Perhaps you can see something wrong with the charts. If you don't try an SPl meter and see if something is wrong with a tweeter.

My receiver is an Onkyo TX-SR608. I used the microphone and tried the Audyssey calibration. After that not yielding a notable improvement I played around with levels and cutoff frequencies, but still wasn't happy with the end result. The speaker was on loan from the audio place, so I only had a few days to demo in-home. Using an SPL meter sounds like a good idea, but I don't have time or access to one. You're right, there could be something wrong with it. The unit I took home to demo was actually from another customer who returned it. I asked why, and the guy wasn't sure. He may not have been involved with that customer, so I don't think he was trying to guide me one way or another.

I ended up buying the CMC today after spending 3 days listening to the two units. My audio place does a trade-up if I ever decide to upgrade down the road.
handruin's Avatar handruin 05:03 PM 01-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

I actually thought the same thing with the CMC2 at Best Buy but I chalked that up to being a system that was thrown together with no regard to tweaking with god knows what settings where messed with by customers playing around. Totally different than my HTM3S which is just about as clean, clear, and airy as you could ever imagine. But the CMC2 at Best Buy was exactly like you explained "boomy/bassy -- dialog vocal seem really throaty and deep".

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice this. It could very well be my environment as much the same being true for your experience at BestBuy. I sorta notice the same thing at the audio place by thought it was just the placement. When I told my sales guy I thought the CMC sounded a bit better he was surprised. :-) The one thing I did notice during my demo between the CMC and CMC2 is that the CMC2 was louder at the same volume level on my receiver. I have to boost the CMC2 by 6dB on the center channel to make the volume even between my CM9s and CMC. It's also possible the speakers need some more time acclimating and breaking in. I've put the foam plugs in all three for now to see if I like them this way. I only have room to pull them about 16" away from the wall.
dsg2003gt's Avatar dsg2003gt 05:41 PM 01-08-2011
i dont think you can listen to these speakers properly in best buy. i heard them today and they really didnt sound any good. they sounded like a sony htib.
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 06:26 PM 01-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by handruin View Post

I just got my CM9s hooked up and the audio dealer let me take home both the CMC and CMC2 to demo for my center channel. So far I actually like the CMC better than the CMC2. I'm finding the CMC2 to be too boomy/bassy in my environment which is distracting me from enjoying movies. The dialog vocal seem really throaty and deep. At about twice the price of the CMC, I'm not sold on it for my environment. Has anyone else compared the two together? I don't know if it's just that I'm not familiar with a decent center channel that I find the larger CMC 2 to be distracting? I even had the center channel sitting out on top of my entertainment center, so it wasn't boxed inside a shelf. The unit I'm demoing was a return from a different customer. I wonder if there was something wrong with the speaker which is why they also returned it. I listened up close and could tell all the speakers were functioning and it doesn't look damaged.

Have you checked the polarity of the CMC2? Could you have mistakingly connected the + to - terminal and - to +?

If you reported that the HTM61 sounded bad I would agree. I like all the CM series although they are lacking in bass IMO.
handruin's Avatar handruin 10:09 PM 01-08-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Have you checked the polarity of the CMC2? Could you have mistakingly connected the + to - terminal and - to +?

If you reported that the HTM61 sounded bad I would agree. I like all the CM series although they are lacking in bass IMO.

Yeah I made sure it wasn't reversed. I connected and disconnected several times while comparing.
Maccur's Avatar Maccur 12:05 AM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by JN99 View Post

I've been looking to upgrade my 683s, which I absolutley love, with 804s for awhile now. I just don't want to spring for the cost of the new 804D so I have been looking at the used market.

I have recently come across a pair of 804n and can get them for much less than I am finding 804s going for. However, I am not at all familiar with the sound of the n series like I am the s. I have owned a pair of 805s and still have the 683 as mentioned. A the time I bought the 683 I opted to pass on the 804 as the upgrade in sound seemed greater than the cost to me and saved some money for electronics at the time as well. Still, they were the ones I wanted to one day buy.

So my question to those of you that have actually listedned to them both, is how different are they, 804n vs 804s? If you can describe how you think they sound different that would be appreciated too. Will they still be a considerable upgrade to the 683? I found the 804s gave just a little bit more of everything I liked in the 683 but still find the 683 to be an excellent speaker, especially for the price. I definitely don't want to move into the 804n and find out I like them not only less than the 804s but also less than my 683.

Thx

I've had Nautilus 804 speakers in a stereo-only setup for 10 years now and have no urge to replace them. I did look at the 804S speakers when the first came out five years ago or so, but I failed to notice a difference when I hooked up a set on loan from my dealer. I had them in my home for about a week, but there didn't seem to be a difference (could be that my old ears just couldn't hear the details). The system I had at the time was a Cal Audio CD player connected to a Classe CAP-101 integrated amp.
LaNooch's Avatar LaNooch 09:58 PM 01-09-2011
Hey everyone,

I just picked up some 683s to start my collection and I had a couple of questions I hoped you might be able to shed some light on:

1. Is it strongly recommended that you buy a B&W sub or will other subs be acceptable?

2. Since I'm just starting out and only have a 2.0 system as of now and plan on getting a subwoofer soon, will an amplifier be necessary or should a decent AVR be able to drive the speakers and sub without problems? (such as a Pio 1120 or VSX-32)

Thanks for the help!
SeattleHTGuy's Avatar SeattleHTGuy 10:13 PM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaNooch View Post

Hey everyone,

I just picked up some 683s to start my collection and I had a couple of questions I hoped you might be able to shed some light on:

1. Is it strongly recommended that you buy a B&W sub or will other subs be acceptable?

2. Since I'm just starting out and only have a 2.0 system as of now and plan on getting a subwoofer soon, will an amplifier be necessary or should a decent AVR be able to drive the speakers and sub without problems? (such as a Pio 1120 or VSX-32)

Thanks for the help!

1) love but most of their subs are not good value. They sound pretty good but seriously, you can do far better with some of the direct to consumer stuff. Think SVS, Hsu, Epik, or look in to the used market.

2) you should do fine with a solid main line AVR.
ap1's Avatar ap1 10:15 PM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaNooch View Post

Hey everyone,

I just picked up some 683s to start my collection and I had a couple of questions I hoped you might be able to shed some light on:

1. Is it strongly recommended that you buy a B&W sub or will other subs be acceptable?

2. Since I'm just starting out and only have a 2.0 system as of now and plan on getting a subwoofer soon, will an amplifier be necessary or should a decent AVR be able to drive the speakers and sub without problems? (such as a Pio 1120 or VSX-32)

Thanks for the help!

1. You can do better (price/performance) with Internet direct brands like HSU, SVS or Rythmik Audio.

2. 683s like power. You need receiver that can handle 4 Ohm load. Mid range pioneers are not the right choice for that role. Look at Denon 3311, Onkyo 3008, Yamaha A2000. You need that type of receivers. Also you can use external power amp with VSX-32.
LaNooch's Avatar LaNooch 10:18 PM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

1) love but most of their subs are not good value. They sound pretty good but seriously, you can do far better with some of the direct to consumer stuff. Think SVS, Hsu, Epik, or look in to the used market.

2) you should do fine with a solid main line AVR.

Thanks for the input. That's kind of what I had been thinking after doing some research here, but I wanted to get some other people's opinions that have more experience than I do. I've been bouncing back and forth between the Pioneer SC-35 with it's ICE amp and the VSX-32, but I'll probably go with the 32 and put the difference towards a decent sub.
LaNooch's Avatar LaNooch 10:23 PM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

1. You can do better (price/performance) with Internet direct brands like HSU, SVS or Rythmik Audio.

2. 683s like power. You need receiver that can handle 4 Ohm load. Mid range pioneers are not the right choice for that role. Look at Denon 3311, Onkyo 3008, Yamaha A2000. You need that type of receivers. Also you can use external power amp with VSX-32.

I was thinking that I could pair the VSX-32 with an Emotiva UPA-5. Does that sound about right as far as power is concerned?
tesseract67's Avatar tesseract67 10:25 PM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaNooch View Post

Hey everyone,

I just picked up some 683s to start my collection and I had a couple of questions I hoped you might be able to shed some light on:

1. Is it strongly recommended that you buy a B&W sub or will other subs be acceptable?

2. Since I'm just starting out and only have a 2.0 system as of now and plan on getting a subwoofer soon, will an amplifier be necessary or should a decent AVR be able to drive the speakers and sub without problems? (such as a Pio 1120 or VSX-32)

Thanks for the help!

1. I use an ID sub with my 602S3's running full range, the B&W subs just don't deliver for the price, IMO.

2. As stated, get a receiver or amp that is comfortable with 4 ohm loads.
tesseract67's Avatar tesseract67 10:35 PM 01-09-2011
SeattleHTGuy's Avatar SeattleHTGuy 11:32 PM 01-09-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaNooch View Post


I was thinking that I could pair the VSX-32 with an Emotiva UPA-5. Does that sound about right as far as power is concerned?

OK, now you've done it. If you doubt your AVR, absolutely go get an external amp. Just make sure you get an AVR that has Pre-outs. Yes, most B&Ws love tons of power but it is abnormal to see a 683 shut down an AVR. The UPA-5 will do great with your 683s but I'd hold off buying the Emo until your actual ears are potentially disappointed. I have heard great things about Ice-D Pioneer amps and still firmly believe that a good mid range AVR will meet your needs.

Understand I am a complete wack job for power with 3 XPA-1s an XPA-5 and still may like a few extra watts. so.... Get your AVR first before you get additional amps. Listen to the room, the speakers, and your EQ system...... Then go upgrade power.

Hope I make sense here.
Fanaticalism's Avatar Fanaticalism 07:09 AM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post
OK, now you've done it. If you doubt your AVR, absolutely go get an external amp. Just make sure you get an AVR that has Pre-outs. Yes, most B&Ws love tons of power but it is abnormal to see a 683 shut down an AVR. The UPA-5 will do great with your 683s but I'd hold off buying the Emo until your actual ears are potentially disappointed. I have heard great things about Ice-D Pioneer amps and still firmly believe that a good mid range AVR will meet your needs.

Understand I am a complete wack job for power with 3 XPA-1s an XPA-5 and still may like a few extra watts. so.... Get your AVR first before you get additional amps. Listen to the room, the speakers, and your EQ system...... Then go upgrade power.

Hope I make sense here.
The Pioneer he has does not deliver stated power into two channels and falls off like a rock to less than 50% with all channels driven.
LaNooch's Avatar LaNooch 09:42 AM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post
OK, now you've done it. If you doubt your AVR, absolutely go get an external amp. Just make sure you get an AVR that has Pre-outs. Yes, most B&Ws love tons of power but it is abnormal to see a 683 shut down an AVR. The UPA-5 will do great with your 683s but I'd hold off buying the Emo until your actual ears are potentially disappointed. I have heard great things about Ice-D Pioneer amps and still firmly believe that a good mid range AVR will meet your needs.

Understand I am a complete wack job for power with 3 XPA-1s an XPA-5 and still may like a few extra watts. so.... Get your AVR first before you get additional amps. Listen to the room, the speakers, and your EQ system...... Then go upgrade power.

Hope I make sense here.
Yep, making sense. It's interesting, though, to read the link that tesseract67 posted above, although the VSX-1019 is a step below the VSX-32. The plan is to eventually add power to get the full range, but for now I wanted to make sure I wasn't throwing money away on an AVR that wouldn't get the job done.
BillyBlueHat's Avatar BillyBlueHat 09:47 AM 01-10-2011
Given the way a sub works it really doesn't matter what brand of sub you go for as long as the performance/quality matches that of your speakers. Not much point having a great set of speakers and a poor sub or the other way round if you get my drift.
imlou's Avatar imlou 12:39 PM 01-10-2011
Hi All,

New to the forum and new to owning B&W speakers. Previously I own the Zeppelin Mini . So over the holiday I purchased the 684, 686 and HTM62 (no sub) as my first mid-range speaker set, budget wise this was the best choice for me (however after reading through 100s of pages from this thread it might not have been the optimal choice). The store also was able to give me a pretty decent package deal for the set (1846cdn before 13% taxes) so was pretty happy with that. The speakers are connected to an Onkyo TX-SR608.

Here is the room configuration:
12x12 room with no wall on the left side.
9ft ceiling.
PS3 as the only source connected to the receiver.
L/R/C are 8ft from seating position (confirmed Audyssey measurements).
HTM62 is placed at the lowest shelf on the tv stand due to the size.
Surrounds are directly beside the couch directed at the couch - have a wall behind the couch.
Floors are hardwood with relatively thick rug infront of the tv and speakers (useless info I think but just wanted to put it out there).

I ran Audyssey right when they were configured and been in the process of breaking them in (was told 15hrs) - so been gaming, music and blu-raying all this time. What I'm noticing so far is the volume on the Onkyo needs to be cranked up to about 50+ to get good volume for music (analog through ipod, I know this is not the best option) and blu-rays. During move playback the speech volume is a little lower than what I would like. The Audyssey setting for the speaker configuration was +2db on the center and 40Hz, Surrounds are at 50Hz and 0db, Fronts are set to Full Band.

Is there something I can do to adjust speech so it doesn't get lost in the action? I think I definitely have some more playing around, but would love to get some advice and suggestions from the pros.
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 02:20 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by imlou View Post

Hi All,

New to the forum and new to owning B&W speakers. Previously I own the Zeppelin Mini . So over the holiday I purchased the 684, 686 and HTM62 (no sub) as my first mid-range speaker set, budget wise this was the best choice for me (however after reading through 100s of pages from this thread it might not have been the optimal choice). The store also was able to give me a pretty decent package deal for the set (1846cdn before 13% taxes) so was pretty happy with that. The speakers are connected to an Onkyo TX-SR608.

Here is the room configuration:
12x12 room with no wall on the left side.
9ft ceiling.
PS3 as the only source connected to the receiver.
L/R/C are 8ft from seating position (confirmed Audyssey measurements).
HTM62 is placed at the lowest shelf on the tv stand due to the size.
Surrounds are directly beside the couch directed at the couch - have a wall behind the couch.
Floors are hardwood with relatively thick rug infront of the tv and speakers (useless info I think but just wanted to put it out there).

I ran Audyssey right when they were configured and been in the process of breaking them in (was told 15hrs) - so been gaming, music and blu-raying all this time. What I'm noticing so far is the volume on the Onkyo needs to be cranked up to about 50+ to get good volume for music (analog through ipod, I know this is not the best option) and blu-rays. During move playback the speech volume is a little lower than what I would like. The Audyssey setting for the speaker configuration was +2db on the center and 40Hz, Surrounds are at 50Hz and 0db, Fronts are set to Full Band.

Is there something I can do to adjust speech so it doesn't get lost in the action? I think I definitely have some more playing around, but would love to get some advice and suggestions from the pros.

I would use one of the 686's as a center and see if that helps. IMO the HTM62 is one of your weakest links. The other is likely too little power from the receiver.
jblow's Avatar jblow 02:23 PM 01-10-2011
I'm seeking recommendations on a decent receiver to pair with a new B&W 685 system...

Currently, I'm considering the Pioneer VSX1120, Marantz SR5005, or possibly a Onkyo (though have not had the opportunity to demo any Onkyos with the B&Ws) - interested in perspectives on which may be better suited to the 685s. This will be ~ 50/50 music and theater in a relatively small basement space (10'x12'). Magnolia is the nearest B&W shop in the area - listened to the 685s on Pioneer VSX30 (no VSX32 or VSX33 on demo at the time), Marantz SR5005 and NR1601, and Denon 1611 -- the Marantz SR5005 provided a discernably fuller sound on the bottom end relative to the others. I suspect that the switching set-up in the demo room may have played a part, but appreciate any opinions with these pairings or potentally others to consider. Thanks in advance!
ap1's Avatar ap1 02:28 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by imlou View Post

Is there something I can do to adjust speech so it doesn't get lost in the action? I think I definitely have some more playing around, but would love to get some advice and suggestions from the pros.

Put your HTM62 on TOP shelf under TV and angle it up, so that it points to your head when you sit on a couch. Also you can change speaker trim for center channel 1 - 2 dB up.

Other thing to mention - 684/686 is not the best combination. You could do much better with 685 all around (including center) plus subwoofer.
ap1's Avatar ap1 02:31 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jblow View Post

I'm seeking recommendations on a decent receiver to pair with a new B&W 685 system...

Currently, I'm considering the Pioneer VSX1120, Marantz SR5005, or possibly a Onkyo (though have not had the opportunity to demo any Onkyos with the B&Ws) - interested in perspectives on which may be better suited to the 685s. This will be ~ 50/50 music and theater in a relatively small basement space (10'x12'). Magnolia is the nearest B&W shop in the area - listened to the 685s on Pioneer VSX30 (no VSX32 or VSX33 on demo at the time), Marantz SR5005 and NR1601, and Denon 1611 -- the Marantz SR5005 provided a discernably fuller sound on the bottom end relative to the others. I suspect that the switching set-up in the demo room may have played a part, but appreciate any opinions with these pairings or potentally others to consider. Thanks in advance!

685s are very easy to drive, so any receiver will do it. Choose one based on features set.
imlou's Avatar imlou 03:23 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Put your HTM62 on TOP shelf under TV and angle it up, so that it points to your head when you sit on a couch. Also you can change speaker trim for center channel 1 - 2 dB up.

Other thing to mention - 684/686 is not the best combination. You could do much better with 685 all around (including center) plus subwoofer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

I would use one of the 686's as a center and see if that helps. IMO the HTM62 is one of your weakest links. The other is likely too little power from the receiver.

Thanks for the input, I started to read this thread after the purchase and have read enough that indicates so. I wish I had read most of the posts before hand . However when I purchased the set the 686s were selling at 189 each and when I purchased the other speakers 684 and HTM62 the 686s were pretty much thrown in. So financially it was my only option, since the 685s were going for $700+ a pair and the wife would've shot that idea down very quickly. As mentioned the 685s would be better all around, is it because it's a 3-way type of speaker with FST and all, but if this option was looked at - wouldn't the Onkyo 608 still have issues powering the speakers?

Due to sizes and financial constraint I might be stuck with what I have, which is a lot better than what I had previously (small polk audio speakers) - I still enjoy the sounds from the speakers very much (guess my ignorance is bliss) but just trying to improve with what I have. I just hope my issues are not similar to saving world poverty.
MUDCAT45's Avatar MUDCAT45 04:40 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by imlou View Post

Thanks for the input, I started to read this thread after the purchase and have read enough that indicates so. I wish I had read most of the posts before hand . However when I purchased the set the 686s were selling at 189 each and when I purchased the other speakers 684 and HTM62 the 686s were pretty much thrown in. So financially it was my only option, since the 685s were going for $700+ a pair and the wife would've shot that idea down very quickly. As mentioned the 685s would be better all around, is it because it's a 3-way type of speaker with FST and all, but if this option was looked at - wouldn't the Onkyo 608 still have issues powering the speakers?

Due to sizes and financial constraint I might be stuck with what I have, which is a lot better than what I had previously (small polk audio speakers) - I still enjoy the sounds from the speakers very much (guess my ignorance is bliss) but just trying to improve with what I have. I just hope my issues are not similar to saving world poverty.

Is it possible to trade the HTM62 for 685's and pay the difference of about $300? Possibly a CMC which is about $200 above the HTM62.
imlou's Avatar imlou 07:31 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Is it possible to trade the HTM62 for 685's and pay the difference of about $300? Possibly a CMC which is about $200 above the HTM62.

I'll email the store and see what the cost would be and if they would allow a trade up. Based on the spec sheet on B&W the CMC and HTM62 have very similar specs, sorry for my ignorance but what would make the CMC better?
bryangreen's Avatar bryangreen 11:17 PM 01-10-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by imlou View Post

I'll email the store and see what the cost would be and if they would allow a trade up. Based on the spec sheet on B&W the CMC and HTM62 have very similar specs, sorry for my ignorance but what would make the CMC better?

Nothing but the fit and finish.
AudioN00b's Avatar AudioN00b 12:48 AM 01-11-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by imlou View Post


I'll email the store and see what the cost would be and if they would allow a trade up. Based on the spec sheet on B&W the CMC and HTM62 have very similar specs, sorry for my ignorance but what would make the CMC better?

If I recall the CM series has a better crossover than the 6 series.
Tags: B W , Bowers And Wilkings 685 Speakers , carver cm-1090
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