B&W Owner's Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by parry View Post

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I'm in a Hi-rise condo and would like to setup a mini theatre type system with my 42" Plasma TV. Does anyone recommend any combination? I was think the 5.1 with M1's and the AS-2 sub. compact and small. but unfortunately, there are no reviews anywhere to be found. Anyone has experience with those?

and what type of a receiver would match properly with them..

Any store recommended that offers the best pricing? Thx



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Old 03-17-2007, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

In all honesty, for an 8 ft run, 16 gauge zip cord from Home Depot would work just fine.

Personally, however, I am using a 14 gauge flat from Radio Shack which tucks nicely under the baseboard.

Why not go for the best and spring for the Home Depot 12-gauge ?

[...which is what I use. I'm not persuaded that spending hundreds or thousands on speaker cables is a productive use of my A/V dollars].

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Old 03-17-2007, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lem View Post

Not to start a discussion about cheap vs. expensive speaker wires, but what gauge wires should I be looking to get for my pair of 804s and HTM3s center? We are talking about 8 ft or so runs

TIA

Does that mean you want to use home depot wire or do you want to actually see what the speakers can do and want a good wire recommendation?
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Why not go for the best and spring for the Home Depot 12-gauge ?

[...which is what I use. I'm not persuaded that spending hundreds or thousands on speaker cables is a productive use of my A/V dollars].

Depends on the system and the speakers. B&W Nautilus, for example, is brutal on cheap wire like bettercables, bluejeans, home depot, radioshack et al. With a lower end system (i.e. speakers at or less than US$ 2000) they're typically fine (but then at that price point you're more budget than performance conscious.) I was recently exposed to this very stark fact at my dealer a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:01 AM
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I've looked at bluejeanscable site. I have 300w going to each speaker and since I'm electronically challenged I just wanted to make sure I had heavy enough gauge between amp and speaker so as not to cut anything off. This is primarily a HT application. Looking for any and all recommendations
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81 View Post

For me, the B&W Nautilus 804(D) is the best speaker I have heard under 10k for my purposes...........

Never heard of that model.

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Old 03-17-2007, 09:18 AM
 
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Never heard of that model.

I can't really talk about it
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:25 AM
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Hmmm

"It is worse still to be ignorant of your ignorance."
-- Saint Jerome (374 AD - 419 AD)

My Home Theatre
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Old 03-17-2007, 01:10 PM
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I can't really talk about it

!!
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:25 PM
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I'm in Toronto but I often travel to New York. I have never heard them yet. What is fpm's?
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I can't really talk about it

Huh, Hmmm indeed...making mods are we?

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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Old 03-18-2007, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81 View Post

Depends on the system and the speakers. B&W Nautilus, for example, is brutal on cheap wire like bettercables, bluejeans, home depot, radioshack et al. With a lower end system (i.e. speakers at or less than US$ 2000) they're typically fine (but then at that price point you're more budget than performance conscious.) I was recently exposed to this very stark fact at my dealer a couple of weeks ago.

Perhaps you were the victim of a trick? Try as I might, I can't find any unbiased, blinded test results that show 12 guage wire at Home Depot sounds worse than 12 guage wire that is hyped and promoted by the overpriced audio wire companies. Can you point to any unbiased research? Thanks.

Here's some I found that shows evidence of no difference.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#anhonest
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81 View Post

Depends on the system and the speakers. B&W Nautilus, for example, is brutal on cheap wire like bettercables, bluejeans, home depot, radioshack et al. With a lower end system (i.e. speakers at or less than US$ 2000) they're typically fine (but then at that price point you're more budget than performance conscious.) I was recently exposed to this very stark fact at my dealer a couple of weeks ago.

care to elaborate?!
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

care to elaborate?!

yeah, especially since the Nauts come prewired with special wiring from the factory all bundled and, as far as I know, cannot be disconnected from the Naut without some trouble.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bar81 View Post

Depends on the system and the speakers. B&W Nautilus, for example, is brutal on cheap wire like bettercables, bluejeans, home depot, radioshack et al. With a lower end system (i.e. speakers at or less than US$ 2000) they're typically fine (but then at that price point you're more budget than performance conscious.) I was recently exposed to this very stark fact at my dealer a couple of weeks ago.

I was in the market for expensive cables to power my mains and I was looking at companies like Audioquest and Transparent. The cables had a very nice appeal to them, but when i home tested them with my speakers - 803S, I found no difference at all! This was in comparison to cheapo Lightning Audio cables that were probably 14 gauge. IF there were any differences to be heard i could not hear it on my 803S and RSX-1057.

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Old 03-19-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post

I was in the market for expensive cables to power my mains and I was looking at companies like Audioquest and Transparent. The cables had a very nice appeal to them, but when i home tested them with my speakers - 803S, I found no difference at all! This was in comparison to cheapo Lightning Audio cables that were probably 14 gauge. IF there were any differences to be heard i could not hear it on my 803S and RSX-1057.

I guarantee you that someone who believes in (and I use that word advisedly, due to its religious implications ) expensive speaker wire is going to tell you that either you have tin ears, your electronics aren't good enough to show how much better expensive cables are, those brands of cable weren't the right ones for your speakers, you didn't listen long enough to hear the difference, didn't listen to the right kind of music to hear the difference, you didn't have the "system synergy" to make those expensive cables sound noticeably better, etc, etc.

I doubt if you're going to get general agreement on any of the audiophile web forums that any suggested, expensive "tweak" makes no audible difference. Partially this is because of the principle of cognitive dissonance, which describes the psychological discomfort one experiences at holding two incompatible thoughts. Such as, "I paid $3000 for these speaker cables, and they sound just like the 59-cents-a-foot wire I bought at Home Depot." The dissonance is resolved by acquiring new beliefs or altering the old ones, e.g., "I can hear a difference!" ...or, "That forum gave me worthless advice, so I'm not posting there any more."

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Old 03-19-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I guarantee you that someone who believes in (and I use that word advisedly, due to its religious implications ) expensive speaker wire is going to tell you that either you have tin ears, your electronics aren't good enough to show how much better expensive cables are, those brands of cable weren't the right ones for your speakers, you didn't listen long enough to hear the difference, didn't listen to the right kind of music to hear the difference, you didn't have the "system synergy" to make those expensive cables sound noticeably better, etc, etc.

I doubt if you're going to get general agreement on any of the audiophile web forums that any suggested, expensive "tweak" makes no audible difference. Partially this is because of the principle of cognitive dissonance, which describes the psychological discomfort one experiences at holding two incompatible thoughts. Such as, "I paid $3000 for these speaker cables, and they sound just like the 59-cents-a-foot wire I bought at Home Depot." The dissonance is resolved by acquiring new beliefs or altering the old ones, e.g., "I can hear a difference!" ...or, "That forum gave me worthless advice, so I'm not posting there any more."

good read and laugh
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

good read and laugh

Thanks! I would add that I love to read these forums, Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, etc. I view the subjective reviews as interesting opinions , some more informed than others. Ultimately, however, I use my own ears to make my purchase decisions. Whether or not my ear is tin or golden, it doesn't really matter since I'm the one that does the listening. I wouldn't buy any components before auditioning them unless I knew that I could return them.

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Old 03-19-2007, 12:13 PM
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As for speaker wire, B&W recommends a speaker cable that with impedance figure of 0.1ohm or less. For my purposes, I chose bluejeanscable 12 gauge with a run of 30 feet, which gives me around 0.05 ohm figure (rated at 16 ohms/1000ft) which is more than good enough.

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Old 03-20-2007, 07:17 AM
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So I'm finally thinking about adding rear speakers to my set up. I have had a pair of DM602's for nearly 9 years and an ASW 675 for some years. The folks at my local shop have told me that 601's are all I should consider, but I think there must be more options than that.

The biggest limitation is that my seating position is only about two inches from the rear wall (the room is only 12ft front to back) so my speakers will be beside me rather than behind. I don't know how that'll effect the sound or my options.
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Old 03-20-2007, 09:03 AM
 
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Well, the reflections off the back wall are your biggest problem, both for the rears and the front. Any way you can rearrange your room so that your seat is a little bit into the room (i.e. arrange it lengthwise)?
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:51 AM
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Dear Fellow B&W Owners;

Let me ask again for some info on speaker reapair.

I have an ailing original 801 tweet.

Surely SOMEONE has had their speakers repaired at some point.

PM if you like.

thanks,



-30-

Film Is NOT DEAD -- it is the Gold Standard against which all other formats are measured

Support ORIGINAL ASPECT RATIO
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Bar81 View Post

Well, the reflections off the back wall are your biggest problem, both for the rears and the front. Any way you can rearrange your room so that your seat is a little bit into the room (i.e. arrange it lengthwise)?

Hmmmm..... I'll have to see if there is anyway to reroute the coax for the TV, but I doubt that'll be possible. How far away from the rear wall should my seating position be?

That issue aside, I've notice some people on this board have mixed VM1's with DM602's. I would think that would be easier for me to mount, but I'm not sure if they'll match well enough. Of course, with my rooms audio "challenges" I might not notice the difference.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I guarantee you that someone who believes in (and I use that word advisedly, due to its religious implications ) expensive speaker wire is going to tell you that either you have tin ears, your electronics aren't good enough to show how much better expensive cables are, those brands of cable weren't the right ones for your speakers, you didn't listen long enough to hear the difference, didn't listen to the right kind of music to hear the difference, you didn't have the "system synergy" to make those expensive cables sound noticeably better, etc, etc.

I doubt if you're going to get general agreement on any of the audiophile web forums that any suggested, expensive "tweak" makes no audible difference. Partially this is because of the principle of cognitive dissonance, which describes the psychological discomfort one experiences at holding two incompatible thoughts. Such as, "I paid $3000 for these speaker cables, and they sound just like the 59-cents-a-foot wire I bought at Home Depot." The dissonance is resolved by acquiring new beliefs or altering the old ones, e.g., "I can hear a difference!" ...or, "That forum gave me worthless advice, so I'm not posting there any more."


What would you consider "Expensive" Speaker Wire?
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs View Post

So I'm finally thinking about adding rear speakers to my set up. I have had a pair of DM602's for nearly 9 years and an ASW 675 for some years. The folks at my local shop have told me that 601's are all I should consider, but I think there must be more options than that.

The biggest limitation is that my seating position is only about two inches from the rear wall (the room is only 12ft front to back) so my speakers will be beside me rather than behind. I don't know how that'll effect the sound or my options.

I had a similar seating situation. I didn't want the speakers 6" from my head, so I decided to use ceiling mounted speakers. I use B&W CCM65's as surrounds (with 703's in front, ASW675, and HTM7). I'm perfectly happy with these as surrounds.

-Reid
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by B&W700guy View Post

What would you consider "Expensive" Speaker Wire?

I can't give you a precise dollar figure. However, I believe that, given reasonable connection lengths, you won't hear much (if any) difference beginning somewhere not too far north of what what 12-gauge zip cord costs at Home Depot.

I know I'm going to start an argument when I say this, so I might as jump in with boot feet and add that the only reasonable way to test this is to use electronics, speakers, signal sources, and listening material well known to the listener, and then to do ABX testing. In this way, the only difference will be speaker cable A versus speaker cable B. Some of the listening samples during ABX testing should involve relatively long periods of listening through each of the cables, in order to give listeners sufficient exposure to each cable in order to detect any difference when the cables are switched.

You could also use software such as Audio DiffMaker. However, although it would tell you if there is any difference between an identical signal passed through one speaker cable as compared to another, it won't tell you if the difference is audible.

If you want to say that you hear differences between 8-foot runs of 59-cent/foot and $800/foot speaker cable (just to pick arbitrary numbers) and you haven't done testing of this kind, my answer would be that nobody can argue with your subjective experience, but in the absence of any controlled hypothesis testing, I would question whether your detection of a difference would be reliably replicated by other people.

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Old 03-21-2007, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

I can't give you a precise dollar figure. However, I believe that, given reasonable connection lengths, you won't hear much (if any) difference beginning somewhere not too far north of what what 12-gauge zip cord costs at Home Depot.

I know I'm going to start an argument when I say this, so I might as jump in with boot feet and add that the only reasonable way to test this is to use electronics, speakers, signal sources, and listening material well known to the listener, and then to do ABX testing. In this way, the only difference will be speaker cable A versus speaker cable B. Some of the listening samples during ABX testing should involve relatively long periods of listening through each of the cables, in order to give listeners sufficient exposure to each cable in order to detect any difference when the cables are switched.

You could also use software such as Audio DiffMaker. However, although it would tell you if there is any difference between an identical signal passed through one speaker cable as compared to another, it won't tell you if the difference is audible.

If you want to say that you hear differences between 8-foot runs of 59-cent/foot and $800/foot speaker cable (just to pick arbitrary numbers) and you haven't done testing of this kind, my answer would be that nobody can argue with your subjective experience, but in the absence of any controlled hypothesis testing, I would question whether your detection of a difference would be reliably replicated by other people.

The only reason I asked is.... the Home Depo cable is Crap, you mentioned it in the last post and you mentioned it again. I ran their 12 and 10 gauge. After 6 months I noticed my system sounding flat and Edgy. I started messing around with my system. After a few weeks I pulled apart the conduit and Checked on the speaker wires. I found sections of wire that turned black! The cable oxidised in the poly jacket. After that exercise I went out and spent about $500.00 in speaker cables. You can say I spent too much, but, I spent more Time/Dollars fu#*ing around tring to figure out what happened to my system, then enjoying it.

Great investment..........
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Old 03-21-2007, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B&W700guy View Post

The only reason I asked is.... the Home Depo cable is Crap, you mentioned it in the last post and you mentioned it again. I ran their 12 and 10 gauge. After 6 months I noticed my system sounding flat and Edgy. I started messing around with my system. After a few weeks I pulled apart the conduit and Checked on the speaker wires. I found sections of wire that turned black! The cable oxidised in the poly jacket. After that exercise I went out and spent about $500.00 in speaker cables. You can say I spent too much, but, I spent more Time/Dollars fu#*ing around tring to figure out what happened to my system, then enjoying it.

Great investment..........

Sorry you had some bad experience with your Home Depot cable. Mine (I used zip cord, not anything they sold that was labeled "speaker wire") has not oxidized in its jacket. I know for a fact because after using it for 2 years I cut into the wire because I needed shorter runs after moving. The copper wire was...copper-colored. There was no sign of any oxidation at all. The ends of the wires, inserted into the speaker binding posts, haven't noticeably changed color, either. You must live in the swamp

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Old 03-21-2007, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post

Sorry you had some bad experience with your Home Depot cable. Mine (I used zip cord, not anything they sold that was labeled "speaker wire") has not oxidized in its jacket. I know for a fact because after using it for 2 years I cut into the wire because I needed shorter runs after moving. The copper wire was...copper-colored. There was no sign of any oxidation at all. The ends of the wires, inserted into the speaker binding posts, haven't noticeably changed color, either. You must live in the swamp

No, I don't live in a swamp. But I live across the street from the beach. Many people on this website have had this problem, maybe bad cable batches, or, it could be that your cave is very cold and dry; maybe you should take up Mummification?
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Old 03-21-2007, 10:10 PM
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Anyone know of a good *short* stand for an HTM7? The bottom of my screen is 23" off the floor, so I need a stand which raises the speaker around 10" off the floor (so the 23" FS-700 isn't gonna work, unless I can take a hack saw to it).

-Reid
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