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post #9391 of 19130 Old 09-04-2011, 06:00 PM
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You can get the price down. I was going to buy a pair of CM9'S for $2300 at HiFi store. You won't get that deal at Best Buy but good deals are out there. Truth is, it's a buyers market and that does not only refer to the housing market.
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post #9392 of 19130 Old 09-06-2011, 09:47 AM
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Would like to know if you think this is a fair price.

cdm 7nt's, cdm 1nt's, cdm cnt.. 8/10 audiogon scale.. ~$1500

Thx
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post #9393 of 19130 Old 09-06-2011, 02:53 PM
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I posted on B & W facebook page if they would bring bach the HTM1 center or something similiar hope they respond.

more respones to them would help
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post #9394 of 19130 Old 09-06-2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4bama View Post

I posted on B & W facebook page if they would bring bach the HTM1 center or something similiar hope they respond.

more respones to them would help

Good idea, keep us informed if they do respond. I don't have a facebook account but it's an interesting experiment for those that do and would also be interested in seeing the speaker return.

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post #9395 of 19130 Old 09-06-2011, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bud B View Post

Hi postrokfan,

Thanks for the response.
I checked the Outlaw out but it is a "Down Firing" Sub and I live on the second floor of an Apartment Bldg.
I may want to stick with front loaded Subs.

Bud B

If you can go up a little bit more to $500 + shippping, check out the Rythmik FV12 ported, the Epik Legend, and the HSU VTF-2 MK 3. None of these are downfiring and they are all 12". I'm a B&W 601 user who has a Mirage Prestige S10 (10" woofer), and I'm currently looking to upgrade to something like one of those or a even a little better. I've just come to the conclusion that a good pair of B&W bookshelf speakers deserves a better sub to fill in with equally good bass sounds to complement what the speakers can put out at the rest of the frequency range.

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post #9396 of 19130 Old 09-06-2011, 06:57 PM
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I am still working on my HT plans, had some additional thoughts, and was looking for some more B&W speaker feedback. I'm looking at something like 19x23x9 for the room. I was wish-listing for 802 for L/R with a HTM2 center and 805 for the other channels. I'm questioning though if that's overkill for me.

My main use case for the room with be movie watching. Second will be video games. Third is TV shows or sports. A distant fourth would be music. I honestly don't see myself using the room for dedicated music listening. My use case will amost always be something video-based with multi-channel audio and DTS Neo:X or similar channel expansion algorithm applied.

That being said, I'm wondering why to bother with spending up for the 802 L/R as I won't be really be playing back dedicated 2 channel sources. Instead, I'm thinking a full matched array would serve me better and provide a better experience for less. That would be using 805 all the way around. I still may need a dedicated center due to speaker height. On the stand, I think the 805 will be too high. So, I would step the center down to the HTM4 to match the rest of the array of 805. The other option would be to use an 805 but rig up a shorter stand. I think the HTM4 would integrate easier though.

I'd then add 2 subwoofers to the room, possibly the DB1. Since the rest of the speakers are all matched, it makes crossing over to the sub very simple. However my array starts, I'd work towards 11.2 for the long term. That would be 1 HTM4, 10 805, and 2 DB1 (or other sub choice).

I think this would make for exceptional sound staging when full on multi-channel listening is what really matters to me. I'm curious if anyone agrees with that sentiment or if you have other feedback on my thought process. Thanks!
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post #9397 of 19130 Old 09-06-2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post

I am still working on my HT plans, had some additional thoughts, and was looking for some more B&W speaker feedback. I'm looking at something like 19x23x9 for the room. I was wish-listing for 802 for L/R with a HTM2 center and 805 for the other channels. I'm questioning though if that's overkill for me.

My main use case for the room with be movie watching. Second will be video games. Third is TV shows or sports. A distant fourth would be music. I honestly don't see myself using the room for dedicated music listening. My use case will amost always be something video-based with multi-channel audio and DTS Neo:X or similar channel expansion algorithm applied.

That being said, I'm wondering why to bother with spending up for the 802 L/R as I won't be really be playing back dedicated 2 channel sources. Instead, I'm thinking a full matched array would serve me better and provide a better experience for less. That would be using 805 all the way around. I still may need a dedicated center due to speaker height. On the stand, I think the 805 will be too high. So, I would step the center down to the HTM4 to match the rest of the array of 805. The other option would be to use an 805 but rig up a shorter stand. I think the HTM4 would integrate easier though.

I'd then add 2 subwoofers to the room, possibly the DB1. Since the rest of the speakers are all matched, it makes crossing over to the sub very simple. However my array starts, I'd work towards 11.2 for the long term. That would be 1 HTM4, 10 805, and 2 DB1 (or other sub choice).

I think this would make for exceptional sound staging when full on multi-channel listening is what really matters to me. I'm curious if anyone agrees with that sentiment or if you have other feedback on my thought process. Thanks!

Your initial wish list is very similar to my current setup, in a room of very similar size (yours is a bit larger in fact) - my screen is on the wide wall to minimize side wall reflections. My current config (new Diamond series) are 802 s L/R, HTMD2 center, 803's surrounds, and stand mounted 805's as rears - subs are two JL Audio 113's

Short of being able to upgrade to 800's, this is a keeper system for some time to come. I toyed with the notion of selling the 803's a few weeks back for 805's, along the overkill lines you fomenting about, but I've since backed off that idea - things sound too good to screw around.

However, I do listen to a fair amount of two channel and multichannel music, a scenario you don't envision (I will say that the Diamond series, along with the new Classé SSP800 I've recently installed, compel one to rediscover music listening!)

Still, the impact I hear from the 802's is far more dynamic and visceral than I've heard with any other setup I've owned or heard, even for film soundtracks. While I'm sure it's possible to get quite close with 805's crossed to subs, my experiments in the past always found that perfect blend to be trickier to achieve than going full range, if it is in the budget. I really wish I could fit a third 802 for the center, but my 9 foot ceiling and screen height don't allow it.

Nonetheless, the entire Diamond series is spectacular, so you would be hard pressed to feel you've erred. I've not heard it, but some have noted the DB1 is perhaps not the best value in the world of subs, so you might be able to find similar performance with other brands, and allocate some of that money to the front soundstage.
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post #9398 of 19130 Old 09-09-2011, 04:10 AM
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Hi cel4145,

Quote:


If you can go up a little bit more to $500 + shippping, check out the Rythmik FV12 ported, the Epik Legend, and the HSU VTF-2 MK 3. None of these are downfiring and they are all 12". I'm a B&W 601 user who has a Mirage Prestige S10 (10" woofer), and I'm currently looking to upgrade to something like one of those or a even a little better. I've just come to the conclusion that a good pair of B&W bookshelf speakers deserves a better sub to fill in with equally good bass sounds to complement what the speakers can put out at the rest of the frequency range.

Thanks for the response..I will check these out...I am still looking or I should say "Hearing" LOL!

Have a Great Day,

Bud B
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post #9399 of 19130 Old 09-10-2011, 02:24 AM
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Hi! I am new here. Just got into the B&W frenzy after auditioning various speaker brands. I came to the conclusion that B&W best fits my 'needs' and I am pretty much set to either go for a pair of CM8's or CM9's as fronts. I can take both pairs home to try out what best fits my listening environment.
Now I'm looking for a matching receiver. I like the ease of a multichannel receiver and can get a great offer on one of the last NAD T747's. Would this be sufficient to drive either of the CM speakers? Will bi-amping help in this case? Primary focus is music.
Or, should I just drop the idea of a multichannel receiver and go for a $1000 stereo amp? If this leads to a dramatic improvement I might consider such an alternative.
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post #9400 of 19130 Old 09-10-2011, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmeets View Post

Hi! I am new here. Just got into the B&W frenzy after auditioning various speaker brands. I came to the conclusion that B&W best fits my 'needs' and I am pretty much set to either go for a pair of CM8's or CM9's as fronts. I can take both pairs home to try out what best fits my listening environment.
Now I'm looking for a matching receiver. I like the ease of a multichannel receiver and can get a great offer on one of the last NAD T747's. Would this be sufficient to drive either of the CM speakers? Will bi-amping help in this case? Primary focus is music.
Or, should I just drop the idea of a multichannel receiver and go for a $1000 stereo amp? If this leads to a dramatic improvement I might consider such an alternative.

Time and time again whenever I've dropped down from using a separate power amp to a receiver I've noticed the difference in performance, even when using Cerwin Vegas that are ultra efficient (102dB 1w/1m) and not even considered true hi-fi speakers the difference was there. Current... current... current... can never have too much on tap IMO. I'd drop down to using a AVR with pre-outs and a Emotiva amp before I ever went with a bigger audiophile name brand receiver without a separate amp. Whether it be low end, mid-range, or higher-end speakers, the difference was always there for me...
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post #9401 of 19130 Old 09-11-2011, 09:22 AM
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Do any of you B&W guys know any thing about the 802 matrix series 3? I have a chance to purchase some for under $700 bucks, is that a good deal? Any one know how they sound compared to any of the B&W speakers of today? Like, is there any of the current models you would compare the lower end too, or the midrange or tweeter? I am considering purchasing them for use in my2 channel system and if they sound good enough I may end up buying a center and using them in place of my def techs for ht.
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post #9402 of 19130 Old 09-11-2011, 08:49 PM
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I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-A2000 AVR. First upgrade in 11 years for the receiver. I am powering a 5.1 system. Fronts, center and surrounds are B & W VM1’s, Def Tech PF15 Subwoofer. I liked them so much years ago, I have another 5 in the basement system. Looking to do a little updating and am looking at the 684 and 683’s. Leaning more towards the 683’s from reading posts and have auditioned them at my local BB. Would love to go a little higher end CM’s or 800 series but there has to be limit in the financial end. Hypothetically I get the 683’s, and use them as my fronts with Center and surrounds as VM1’s? Since I will have different speakers, how will the sounds match? Everyone talks a lot about speaker matching, can anyone provide any input before I go through the process of bringing them home and find out they are really bad together. Or do I just need to test’em out. I do a lot of HT but I am starting to listen to a lot of music again and I am just not getting the sound I think should be coming out of the VM1’s. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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post #9403 of 19130 Old 09-11-2011, 09:02 PM
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post #9404 of 19130 Old 09-11-2011, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Oooof, I'm tempted....and he's local...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....TM1D-black-ash
Heck, you've gone this far, why not go all the way?

If you're gonna be a bear, be a GRIZZLY BEAR!
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post #9405 of 19130 Old 09-11-2011, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post
Heck, you've gone this far, why not go all the way?

If you're gonna be a bear, be a GRIZZLY BEAR!
Well, the drivers and crossover are all different, so I don't think I want to mix up the front soundstage...I'd have to redo my front rack as well.

STILL, one more bowling ball...
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post #9406 of 19130 Old 09-11-2011, 10:07 PM
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Well, the drivers and crossover are all different, so I don't think I want to mix up the front soundstage...I'd have to redo my front rack as well.

STILL, one more bowling ball...
While the driver motors have been changed in the new 800 series, based on the measurements of the 802D and 800 Diamond, it seems that the only significant difference, (relatively speaking) in the performance of these two speakers is in the FR balance. Their sensitivity, impedance plots, cabinet resonances (or lack there of), are all VERY similar. Even the general trends in the FR are remarkably similar. In the range covered by the new and old diamond tweeter, they both have the same peak at 10K, followed by the dip at 5.5K and a smaller rise at 4K. Raise the overall treble level 1dB on the 802D, and it would be virtually interchangeable with the 800 Diamond. Likewise, raise the midrange level 1-2dB in the 802D and lower the bass by 2-3dB, and you essentially get the graph for the 800 Diamond.

Here's a little photoshop magic to illustrate the very minor differences between these two speakers. Red plot is 800 Diamond, with a trasparent layer of the 802D over top. The bass / mid / treble have been shifted up or down to match the 800 Diamond plot.



Considering the similarities between the 800 Diamond and the 802D, there is a good chance that the center you are looking at would still share the family characteristics of your current speakers, and you could adjust for any differences in the "voicing" with the EQ in your Classe.

Just a thought ....
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post #9407 of 19130 Old 09-12-2011, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post
While the driver motors have been changed in the new 800 series, based on the measurements of the 802D and 800 Diamond, it seems that the only significant difference, (relatively speaking) in the performance of these two speakers is in the FR balance. Their sensitivity, impedance plots, cabinet resonances (or lack there of), are all VERY similar. Even the general trends in the FR are remarkably similar. In the range covered by the new and old diamond tweeter, they both have the same peak at 10K, followed by the dip at 5.5K and a smaller rise at 4K. Raise the overall treble level 1dB on the 802D, and it would be virtually interchangeable with the 800 Diamond. Likewise, raise the midrange level 1-2dB in the 802D and lower the bass by 2-3dB, and you essentially get the graph for the 800 Diamond.

Here's a little photoshop magic to illustrate the very minor differences between these two speakers. Red plot is 800 Diamond, with a trasparent layer of the 802D over top. The bass / mid / treble have been shifted up or down to match the 800 Diamond plot.



Considering the similarities between the 800 Diamond and the 802D, there is a good chance that the center you are looking at would still share the family characteristics of your current speakers, and you could adjust for any differences in the "voicing" with the EQ in your Classe.

Just a thought ....
Good work!

John Atkinson also said the 802D and 800 D were very similar.
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post #9408 of 19130 Old 09-12-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Oooof, I'm tempted....and he's local...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....TM1D-black-ash

That's a danm good price. Cosmetically it will not match with your gloss blacks but I am dying for someone who actually owns a HTM2 Diamond to be able to give a direct comparison to the HTM1D and you would be able to do an actual A/B at home. I say go for based on that alone

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post #9409 of 19130 Old 09-12-2011, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Oooof, I'm tempted....and he's local...

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....TM1D-black-ash

LOL, I was literally at this guy's house this morning, I bought the HTM2 off of him (it's another one of his Audiogon listings)!!!!

I saw the HTM1D in person about 6 hours ago, although I wasn't paying a lot of attention to it since I was picking up it's much more "affordable" little cousin! The guy was very professional, and has a seriously sick setup in his living room. He moved away from B&W 802D to Wilson Sashas x 4 plus the Watch center channel, and it is a most impressive setup, easily over 100k in electronics in one room. Would definitely buy from him again.
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post #9410 of 19130 Old 09-12-2011, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atorak View Post

LOL, I was literally at this guy's house this morning, I bought the HTM2 off of him (it's another one of his Audiogon listings)!!!!

I saw the HTM1D in person about 6 hours ago, although I wasn't paying a lot of attention to it since I was picking up it's much more "affordable" little cousin! The guy was very professional, and has a seriously sick setup in his living room. He moved away from B&W 802D to Wilson Sashas x 4 plus the Watch center channel, and it is a most impressive setup, easily over 100k in electronics in one room. Would definitely buy from him again.


Sounds like a great transaction over all, now give the poor guy some possitive feed back DUDE
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post #9411 of 19130 Old 09-12-2011, 01:40 PM
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Which is the better speaker and why in your opinion? Can the 803s even be compared to the nautilus 802?
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post #9412 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Time and time again whenever I've dropped down from using a separate power amp to a receiver I've noticed the difference in performance, even when using Cerwin Vegas that are ultra efficient (102dB 1w/1m) and not even considered true hi-fi speakers the difference was there. Current... current... current... can never have too much on tap IMO. I'd drop down to using a AVR with pre-outs and a Emotiva amp before I ever went with a bigger audiophile name brand receiver without a separate amp. Whether it be low end, mid-range, or higher-end speakers, the difference was always there for me...

Would pairing the NAD T747 with a (used, 4 year old or so) NAD C272 power amplifier result in a great improvement with either the CM8 or CM9?
Another option would be to buy a used Rotel RSX-1550, which should be a big step up from the NAD T747.
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post #9413 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 07:51 AM
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I am continuing my theater planning. While I had hoped for 800’s, I don’t think my budget will allow it initially.

I thus have the option of keeping my CDM-9NT/CNT/SNT set-up or upgrading to something less expensive than the 800’s. That would be the CM series. I suspect I would find today’s CM line as an improvement to my CDM line.

As my focus is home theater and gaming, dedicated music listening is a distant concern for my room. For that reason, I’d prefer to match speakers as closely as possible. Identical speakers would be ideal or at least matched drivers. I really want to match LCR at a minimum to avoid a horizontal center.

There are a few CM configurations I’m considering. This would be for a 9 channel system in a larger room (20’ x 24’ x 9’).

1. Use CM5’s all the way around.
2. Use CM8’s all the way around.
3. Use CM9’s all the way around (likely out of budget).
4. Use CM8’s as LCR and CM1’s for other channels.

I can accommodate the full size speakers for the non-LCR channels by building columns to elevate them. The full CM5 array does make for easier installation though.

If I did CM8’s as LCR, then the CM1 with the 130 mm midrange matches better than the CM5 for the other channels. Am I right to assume I’d get a better soundstage and seamlessness using the cheaper CM1 vs the better CM5 due to the matched drivers? There’s no bookshelf in the line with the 150 mm midrange that the CM9 uses.

I’m not sure if there’s a benefit to all CM8’s vs all CM5’s. I’d be using subwoofers crossed over at 80 Hz in either case. Do the bass drivers on the CM8’s make any difference operating from 80 Hz to 350 Hz vs just letting the 165 mm midrange on the CM5 run all the way down to 80? Is the sound really going to be richer, fuller, and more robust with the 3-way design picking up that relatively small frequency range over the 2-way?

This question is my big debate right now. I don’t need full range 2 channel for music. So is there any major benefit that the full range floor-standers provide over the bookshelves? I had the CM8’s on my mind because the cost of CM5’s plus stands is very close to the CM8’s, so why buy stand if you can buy better speaker with the same dollars…
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post #9414 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamioutlaw04 View Post

Which is the better speaker and why in your opinion? Can the 803s even be compared to the nautilus 802?


I've heard people say that they sound totally different because of some further designs elements on the 802's, it's hard to beat 2 8" woofers in a separate compartment. I have listen to the 803n some years ago, but I was really in love with 802n that I had also listen to on the same day, which whipped out any memories of So I'm pretty much useless to your question, but the 802 is a hell of a speaker having a pair in my own home.

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post #9415 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 02:31 PM
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[quote=JaremyP;20943467]I am continuing my theater planning. While I had hoped for 800's, I don't think my budget will allow it initially.

[quote]

I have the same speaker setup as you do & have made some changes which you may wish to consider. Whist my focus is music the same will apply to movies.

Upto a couple of years ago I had a Pioneer AX4i driving all the speakers. I decided to upgrade my CDP and amplifier. I chose the Wyred4Sound STI500 to use for the main channels and the CD. The Pioneer was still used for HT with The STI500 in HT mode driving the mains. The improvement in sound was phenomenal. I now have a Yamaha 3900 for the HT amp (still with the STI500) and cross to a sub at 60hz for movies. I also found turning off the center gave a better sound.
Conclusion is that a better amp makes these speakers excellent.

I haven't heard the CMs but am doubtful that this change would be significant comparing the amp change. I am looking at sometime possibly going to the 802s but they are cost prohibative in NZ. I will probably import from the US & save 40%

Gear: Yamaha 3900,Wyred4Sound STI500 Oppo BDP83, Bryston CD1, B&W CDM9NT -CNT -1NT (NMT) Soundscpe 8's

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post #9416 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 02:38 PM
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I've heard people say that they sound totally different because of some further designs elements on the 802's, it's hard to beat 2 8" woofers in a separate compartment. I have listen to the 803n some years ago, but I was really in love with 802n that I had also listen to on the same day, which whipped out any memories of So I'm pretty much useless to your question, but the 802 is a hell of a speaker having a pair in my own home.

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Thanks for that response the nautilus 802 look great but I don't know if worth the hassle of selling my 803s to get the n802. If u sold me your htm3s then I would definitely keep the 803s

By the way if anyone is interested I have a htm2 Iam selling on eBay right now it's in great condition.
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post #9417 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 03:25 PM
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Thanks for that response the nautilus 802 look great but I don't know if worth the hassle of selling my 803s to get the n802. If u sold me your htm3s then I would definitely keep the 803s

By the way if anyone is interested I have a htm2 Iam selling on eBay right now it's in great condition.

What rears do you have..If I had a smaller space, I would do a trade.


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post #9418 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 04:05 PM
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What rears do you have..If I had a smaller space, I would do a trade.


Djoel

I have a pair of ds3 surrounds.
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post #9419 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 04:29 PM
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You would Trade what ?
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post #9420 of 19130 Old 09-13-2011, 05:17 PM
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You would Trade what ?



Well if I had to live in a smaller apt, I would trade my 802n for some balance cash course...


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