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Schadenfreude's Avatar Schadenfreude 10:30 PM 03-30-2007
Quote:


From what I have read at least, and in speaking directly with dealers, the audible difference beween your 803 N and the newer 803 S is not worth spending the money for the upgrade.

Upgrading to a used 802 N - IMO is worth the upgrade, especially if your music genre is more geared toward jazz and concertos, etc. I have read that the 803 N & S are better with Rock N' Roll, but the 802 Ns have a fuller presentation and are stronger in the base tones IMO. Used pairs seem to be selling in the low to mid $5,000 range for a pair. Especially for the price, I would definitely want a used pair of 802 Ns as opposed to the $5,500 list 803 S.

While I would be inclined to agree with you, many have upgraded from the N to the S series and felt it was worth it.

daxhughes's Avatar daxhughes 02:08 PM 04-01-2007
I am in the process of buying the 703's for L/R and am uncertain what to do about the center channel? I see the HTM7 but it has a different "look" and thus probably "sound" around its mid-driver. I think it is called the "surround". I am convinced that the 703's sound better than the 704's because of the mid-driver.

I noticed the HTM3s has a mid-driver similar to the 703's. I cannot afford to go to the 800 series on everything so what about mixing the 703's with the HTM3s and have the DS7's for my two rears. Is it necessary or will the HTM7 be fine without hardly a notice in tonal difference?

I have an SVS PB-Ultra sub and my receiver is a Denon 4806CI

Thanks,

Dax
Jonomega's Avatar Jonomega 04:20 PM 04-01-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxhughes View Post

I am in the process of buying the 703's for L/R and am uncertain what to do about the center channel? I see the HTM7 but it has a different "look" and thus probably "sound" around its mid-driver. I think it is called the "surround". I am convinced that the 703's sound better than the 704's because of the mid-driver.

I noticed the HTM3s has a mid-driver similar to the 703's. I cannot afford to go to the 800 series on everything so what about mixing the 703's with the HTM3s and have the DS7's for my two rears. Is it necessary or will the HTM7 be fine without hardly a notice in tonal difference?

I have an SVS PB-Ultra sub and my receiver is a Denon 4806CI

Thanks,

Dax

It depends on how much movie watching you do and how critical the center channel is to you. The best thing you can do is audition both models in your home to determine whether one is "not enough" or the other is "overkill". I do tend to find the 700 series center speaker to be quite lacking and I like the 800 series WMTW centers better.
WestCoastD's Avatar WestCoastD 05:39 PM 04-01-2007
I noticed in today's Sunday, Los Angeles Times, pull-out ad section for Ken Cranes, they are liquidating just about everything (TV's, speakers, receivers, etc.,..), to make room for new model stock. I noticed they list B&W 704's (@ $497.00 each), some are demo's and some brand-new remaining stock. Looks sort of intriguing if you ask me (especially for new ones).
http://www.kencrane.com/
tweeterex's Avatar tweeterex 05:46 PM 04-01-2007
Quote:


I noticed the HTM3s has a mid-driver similar to the 703's. I cannot afford to go to the 800 series on everything so what about mixing the 703's with the HTM3s and have the DS7's for my two rears. Is it necessary or will the HTM7 be fine without hardly a notice in tonal difference?

There's a new redesigned model 600 series center coming out in July with an FST mid (3 way).
parry's Avatar parry 09:44 PM 04-01-2007
I heard they are coming with a new SUB that will be a bit less expensive and less powerful than PV1 and more than AS20. ANyone has info on that?
DisTreSs's Avatar DisTreSs 01:47 AM 04-02-2007
Thx for all the replies to my questions guys!

I will not be upgrading my speakers since I think getting a good amp will increase the fun I can still get out of my 803N's. The 803D's would be out of my pricerange anyway even if I would sell my current 803's so I won't go that route.

It is very unfortunate about the glue. I know I should have brought it up earlier but I was just so happy after getting these at 30% off that I didn't want to burst my own bubble I guess
Is there any way that this can easily be fixed or would this imply complete speaker and driver disassembly? I will post some pictures to make everything a bit more clear.
Again, I'm not entirely sure if it is completely necessary since they still sound great. I don't think sound is impacted at all by any of this, but still... I like playing them without the cloth so from an optical standpoint, it would be better not to have the glue visible. I'm even wondering whether it would be possible to remove the glue with some kind of dissolvant that would not damage the driver (if this is possible at all...).

Another thing that I am wondering about now is whether this would have been constructed like this in the B&W factories? It looks more like someone (the dealer) had these speakers serviced in some way, no???

The Ayre amps are unfortunately still a bit too costly. So if anyone has any more suggestions that would improve on my current receiver, it would be appreciated.

Thx for all the great help!
beden1's Avatar beden1 08:44 AM 04-02-2007
I have been using a Pioneer Elite receiver (7 channels x 130 watts). To go with my new 803D speakers, I also just bought a used Classe CAV-150 - 6 channels x 150 watts amp. This amp appears in like new condition. It is able to be bridged, or bi-amped to power the 3 front speakers (300 watts per channel bridged). I am going to use it to power my three front speakers, and will use the receiver to power the rear surrounds. If you do some searching on the internet and/or Ebay (I got mine through a dealer on AudioGon), you should be able to find a quality amp used and save some money. For me, I decided it was best to look for either a powerful 3 channel or a 6 channel amp, and one that would double in power driving from 8 ohm down to 4 ohm speaker demands.
Iostream's Avatar Iostream 09:48 AM 04-02-2007
Moving from (at the time) an Integra receiver (6x105W) to a Rotel amp (2x200W) made a huge difference in opening up my Nautilus 804s. I still used the receiver for the surround speakers, but the amp made it possible to listen to music in pure direct mode without the subwoofer on. Bass was suddenly present, and more controlled, soundstage opened up a bit, and the whole thing sounded a bit more coherent. It was the best upgrade I could have made for the money.
beden1's Avatar beden1 10:11 AM 04-02-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iostream View Post

Moving from (at the time) an Integra receiver (6x105W) to a Rotel amp (2x200W) made a huge difference in opening up my Nautilus 804s. I still used the receiver for the surround speakers, but the amp made it possible to listen to music in pure direct mode without the subwoofer on. Bass was suddenly present, and more controlled, soundstage opened up a bit, and the whole thing sounded a bit more coherent. It was the best upgrade I could have made for the money.

I was thinking of adding my Aragon 24K pre-amp that I used in a previous setup for when I listened to 2 channel stereo. But, you have me thinking now about using the Pure Direct function on my Pioneer Elite receiver. Does this virtually bi-pass the receiver's electronics for a direct signal from say the CD player to the amp?
Iostream's Avatar Iostream 10:50 AM 04-02-2007
The point of pure direct modes is to bypass all signal processing in the receiver. This should include all bass management, eq, tone control, etc. While a good quality pre-amp will be better than pure direct on a receiver, I find the difference very hard to justify the cost.
DisTreSs's Avatar DisTreSs 02:54 AM 04-03-2007
Anybody any input on a Rotel RB1070 (can get it used for 700 US$, listprice 1000$ here in Belgium) for stereo reproduction on the 803N's?
Would it be a significant improvement over the amps in the Denon 3801 or should I hold off until I can get something even higher up the ladder?
petergaryr's Avatar petergaryr 05:08 AM 04-03-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisTreSs View Post

Anybody any input on a Rotel RB1070 (can get it used for 700 US$, listprice 1000$ here in Belgium) for stereo reproduction on the 803N's?
Would it be a significant improvement over the amps in the Denon 3801 or should I hold off until I can get something even higher up the ladder?

I'd say go for it. That's the route I went (used it with a Denon 2805). Even if eventually you wanted something more powerful for the mains (and the 803N could certainly benefit from it), you could always use the RB1070 to power the rear channels.

In my case, I liked the RB1070 so much, I eventually bought the RC1070 and an RCD 1072 to create a separate "music only" system.
ribbit's Avatar ribbit 05:27 AM 04-03-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisTreSs View Post

Anybody any input on a Rotel RB1070 (can get it used for 700 US$, listprice 1000$ here in Belgium) for stereo reproduction on the 803N's?
Would it be a significant improvement over the amps in the Denon 3801 or should I hold off until I can get something even higher up the ladder?

700 US$ is a bit expensive for a USED RB1070. over here, a NEW 1070 is around 700+ US$.
DisTreSs's Avatar DisTreSs 05:41 AM 04-03-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribbit View Post

700 US$ is a bit expensive for a USED RB1070. over here, a NEW 1070 is around 700+ US$.

Unfortunately electronics are always more expensive over here...
If you compare list prices, you'll see what I mean and if you want to translate that into a used price I suppose the 700$ I would pay for a used amp would come down to 490$ in your case...

So if 490$ would seem like a good deal to you guys, then I would consider it (after having auditioned it ofcourse).

On the other hand ribbit, if you would like to buy me the amp in the US and bring it over here, don't let me hold you back! I will gladly pay you 700$ for the new one then
DisTreSs's Avatar DisTreSs 05:59 AM 04-03-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

I'd say go for it. That's the route I went (used it with a Denon 2805). Even if eventually you wanted something more powerful for the mains (and the 803N could certainly benefit from it), you could always use the RB1070 to power the rear channels.

In my case, I liked the RB1070 so much, I eventually bought the RC1070 and an RCD 1072 to create a separate "music only" system.

You make a good point... if I ever intend to upgrade further, I can still use the Rotel for surround amplification...

Now the only possible donwside I'm thinking of right now is that I won't be able to use the Rotel while decoding AC3 audio seeing as I'd be using the external outputs for the fronts. I can't check it right now since I'm at work, but I don't suppose the receiver outputs the unamplified signal at all times to those connections and I'll have to make a selection on the receiver (similar to the 'ext in' option)?
If this is the case than I'll be limited to either choosing the external outputs and therefore stereo reproduction (since I have no other seperate amps right now) or use the Denon's amps if I want to listen to surround sound...
On the other hand, it would be extremely illogical from my viewpoint if Denon has done it this way, so I'll guess they are outputting at all times... I'll just have to quickly check tonight
Jake Sm's Avatar Jake Sm 06:10 AM 04-03-2007
they are outputting at all times.
DisTreSs's Avatar DisTreSs 06:45 AM 04-03-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Sm View Post

they are outputting at all times.

Thx for putting my mind at ease so soon Jake
jkirby's Avatar jkirby 09:41 AM 04-04-2007
anyone here use Emotiva amps to power B&Ws? am thinking of getting the 602 S3 (already have the 600 LCR for center) and some old B&Wi's for surrounds..
ril850's Avatar ril850 09:48 AM 04-04-2007
Hey guys,
I'm new to AVS and doing some reading/searching on the particular gear I own. I'm glad to see this thread.
I have some 602 s3, LCR 60 S3 and some 601's for surround. I use these for 60% movies and 40% music. I 'm using my Denon AVR-3805, my question is would I benefit from bi-wiring my speakers? What can I or can not expect to gain from doing this? I know I may open up a can of worms by bringing on this debate.
wgriel's Avatar wgriel 12:58 PM 04-04-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by ril850 View Post

Hey guys,
I'm new to AVS and doing some reading/searching on the particular gear I own. I'm glad to see this thread.
I have some 602 s3, LCR 60 S3 and some 601's for surround. I use these for 60% movies and 40% music. I 'm using my Denon AVR-3805, my question is would I benefit from bi-wiring my speakers? What can I or can not expect to gain from doing this? I know I may open up a can of worms by bringing on this debate.

imo, you won't get anything from bi-wiring except in the most unusual circumstances.

However, it's pretty cheap to try and it certainly won't hurt anything, so if you feel inclined go ahead.

Bill
QueueCumber's Avatar QueueCumber 01:05 PM 04-04-2007
There are a lot of bi-curious posters on these fora. Heheheh...
daxhughes's Avatar daxhughes 03:38 PM 04-04-2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am considering buying the B&W 703 series speakers but I have heard there may be better speakers for movie watching out there. The 703 series center does not get high marks.

I listen to little music. mostly TV and movies.

i have an svs pb ultra sub and a denon 4806ci receiver.

Any suggestions on what type of speakers would sound really good?

my price range for the whole system (no sub needed) is around 7000.

Of course my major issue is clear vocals from the center channel and crisp sound from the rest of the speakers.


thanks for your suggestions.
pbarach's Avatar pbarach 05:09 PM 04-04-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxhughes View Post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am considering buying the B&W 703 series speakers but I have heard there may be better speakers for movie watching out there. The 703 series center does not get high marks.

If speakers are good for music (i.e., good dynamic range, relatively flat and extended speaker response, reasonably good dispersion), they ought to be good for movies, too--unless someone prefers the shrill highs, bloated midrange, and overemphasized-flabby-subwoofer kind of sound that you find in most movie theaters.
Jonomega's Avatar Jonomega 05:59 PM 04-04-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by daxhughes View Post

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am considering buying the B&W 703 series speakers but I have heard there may be better speakers for movie watching out there. The 703 series center does not get high marks.

I listen to little music. mostly TV and movies.

i have an svs pb ultra sub and a denon 4806ci receiver.

Any suggestions on what type of speakers would sound really good?

my price range for the whole system (no sub needed) is around 7000.

Of course my major issue is clear vocals from the center channel and crisp sound from the rest of the speakers.


thanks for your suggestions.

I would be tempted to just get 804s and HTM3s to have a nice front stage. Is the budget for 5,6, or 7 speakers? 804s and HTM3s would cost roughly $5500-$6500 so I guess the remaining budget for surrounds would depend on your dealer.
daxhughes's Avatar daxhughes 08:16 PM 04-04-2007
that is a good idea. I could get some fairly sheap surrounds and upgrade down the road. Those 803'swith that HTM3s would be a good investment
daxhughes's Avatar daxhughes 08:17 PM 04-04-2007
are there cheaper surrounds that would sound decent with the 803s and HTm3s center
chunkisagoonie's Avatar chunkisagoonie 08:31 PM 04-04-2007
Quote:
BTW, I started my B&W foray with two 703s, two 705s, an HTM7 and an ASW750. Those 703s were definitely terrific sounding speakers, which is why I bought that surround setup. Little did I realize how pathetically matched that HTM7 was compared to the 703s.

That has always been my biggest criticism with the 700 Series. The HTM7 is barely adequate even for 704's. I'm still to this day not quite sure what B&W was thinking. But what do you do? Spend $2,500 for a HTM3S to team up with a $2,200 pair of speakers?

My other gripe is the lack of a dedicated, lower stand for the HTM7. Instead, the HTM7 shares the same stand used for the 705/CM1, which sits way too high to be feasible with the majority of room setups.
daxhughes's Avatar daxhughes 08:46 PM 04-04-2007
do the 803s sound that much better than the 703? i am thinking about buying 803s and an HTM3S and going cheaper on the surrounds for now.

I have heard the 703's but not the 803s. Can you tell a difference?


Any suggestions for some surrounds at a steal price that sound decent???
Iostream's Avatar Iostream 09:02 PM 04-04-2007
The 803s sound that much better and then some... For that matter, the 804s sound that much better... As for cheaper surrounds, I have been using LM-1s as rear surrounds with nautilus 804 and HTM-1. Sure, the SCMs would be better, but not enough for me to upgrade. Perhaps if I listened to multichannel music frequently I would feel differently. VM-1s or LM-1s go for ~$350/pr.
For what it is worth, the LM-1 is no slouch of a speaker. I also use a pair with an AS-1 subwoofer for my computer audio setup, and I am quite pleased with them for musical performance. I may upgrade them at some point soon since I spend ~8-12 hours a day listening to music in there, but they will simply be moved to my bedroom system. For $350/pr you cannot do too much better in wall mountable.
Tags: B W , Bowers And Wilkings 685 Speakers , carver cm-1090
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