B&W Owner's Thread - Page 364 - AVS Forum
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post #10891 of 19254 Old 04-10-2012, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by e84cooper View Post

For all you 685 owner and using them as front left and right what are you using as a receiver? I'm thinking onkyo 818 or pioneer elite

G'day Mate I'm using an Denon 1908 with the B&W 684 fr --- 685 sides the 62 centre and the small ASW 608 and all together an awsome set so any new Denon would do the job fine
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post #10892 of 19254 Old 04-10-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Theresse View Post

Thanks. I just talked to the owner of the store and he said he thinks the 8" will give it a boost of bass but that it really depends on the listener whether it's enough to bother with the upgrade. He did say he'd be willing to take the 6" ones back if I wanted though, which was great of him. I may not, but will research further whether or not it may be worth it since I have absolutely no control of bass from the receiver (darn it)!

So that's really my next question in general (wish I could get a few responses here) - whether or not it'll make a notable difference.

Thanks again!

Buy an integrated amp. Connect the zone 2 outs on the MRX 500 to the aux(or any line level) input on the amp. Connect the speaker leads for zone 2 to the integrated amp. The volume,balance and tone controls on the amp will affect zone 2. Plenty of used integrated amps on ebay,no need for high end to drive two in-ceiling speakers. You will also have the option of connecting any source to the amp and playing it in zone 2 while the MRX 500 plays something else in the main zone.
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post #10893 of 19254 Old 04-10-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresse View Post

Thanks. I just talked to the owner of the store and he said he thinks the 8" will give it a boost of bass but that it really depends on the listener whether it's enough to bother with the upgrade. He did say he'd be willing to take the 6" ones back if I wanted though, which was great of him. I may not, but will research further whether or not it may be worth it since I have absolutely no control of bass from the receiver (darn it)!

So that's really my next question in general (wish I could get a few responses here) - whether or not it'll make a notable difference.

Thanks again!

I have the CCM616 for surrounds in my media room and the CCM618 for surrounds in the great room. In 5.1 music the 8" have definitely more bass. Good choice for a zone 2, I think you will pleased.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #10894 of 19254 Old 04-11-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I have the CCM616 for surrounds in my media room and the CCM618 for surrounds in the great room. In 5.1 music the 8" have definitely more bass. Good choice for a zone 2, I think you will pleased.

Thank you. Are your 8" speakers able to have bass controlled though? Cause I know the 6" ones sound very bassy when there's the option of adding bass via the controls.
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post #10895 of 19254 Old 04-11-2012, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Buy an integrated amp. Connect the zone 2 outs on the MRX 500 to the aux(or any line level) input on the amp. Connect the speaker leads for zone 2 to the integrated amp. The volume,balance and tone controls on the amp will affect zone 2. Plenty of used integrated amps on ebay,no need for high end to drive two in-ceiling speakers. You will also have the option of connecting any source to the amp and playing it in zone 2 while the MRX 500 plays something else in the main zone.

Hmmm...definitely an intriguing idea. I wonder what would cost more and risk more in terms of the chances the bass won't improve enough? Paying $100 extra for the upgrade to 8" speakers plus the labor of having the holes in the plaster ceiling enlarged (in hopes nothing gets so ugly that I have to have the ceiling re-patched there and re-painted there) OR buying an integrated amp for a good price and having total control of bass for sure... Is hooking up the integrated amp as simple as placing it under the TV with the rest of the components? What about when I want the same program that's playing on the living room speakers? Will there somehow be a way for both receiver and amp to be hooked up? Can you recommend a brand to find used, or a brand that's new and decent but not too expensive?

Thanks very much!

p.s. I don't remember if it was here or on another thread - I was really tired when I read it last night - but I read a post on this forum in which the poster was having a good ol' time judging others who want more bass. I think that's like judging someone who likes a different color - it's ridiculous. I see his point in a very small sense but the reality is that everyone's ears are different and he's making the assumption that everyone who likes bass has poor ears and/or is ignorant. I PROMISE you, in ANY contest re. having a musical ear, I could beat him any minute of the year with a panel of judges. I could probably also outplay him with a variety of instruments. Humans tend to like bass for reasons that some scientists say goes back thousands of years. There are also types of music to consider. There are also a variety of cultures who want more bass because of the style of music they listen to. Maybe I'm being defensive (well, yes, clearly) and taking what he said out of context (I admit I should re-read it when my eyes are more than half open) but it came across as SO absurd and pretentious and presumptuous. My kitchen speakers sound great for some types of music but lack bass for other kinds - particularly when listening to jazz re. the bassist. For violin music they sound wonderful. They're also competing with the speakers in the room near by which are larger and more bassy by nature. They were bought not just for their clear sound but because of the perfect combination of bright highs and beautifully bassy lows when sampled and also re. reviews. But those examples were based on having bass control from their receivers, which I overlooked. Ugh - okay done ranting.
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post #10896 of 19254 Old 04-11-2012, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ap1 View Post


Can you really prove it? Didn't you ever think why dealers never have CM9 and 683 in the same showroom?

Actually just about every dealer near me (Modia, BB, etc.) have the 600 and the CM in the same showroom. Do I need pics to prove it?
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post #10897 of 19254 Old 04-11-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tmaschm View Post

Actually just about every dealer near me (Modia, BB, etc.) have the 600 and the CM in the same showroom. Do I need pics to prove it?

More importantly, I just asked the guys at BB to move the speakers into the same room so that I can A/B them. I also brought in my own music.

If you ask nicely, and seem serious about making a purchase, no one minds moving two speakers for a sale.

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post #10898 of 19254 Old 04-11-2012, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Theresse View Post

Hmmm...definitely an intriguing idea. I wonder what would cost more and risk more in terms of the chances the bass won't improve enough? Paying $100 extra for the upgrade to 8" speakers plus the labor of having the holes in the plaster ceiling enlarged (in hopes nothing gets so ugly that I have to have the ceiling re-patched there and re-painted there) OR buying an integrated amp for a good price and having total control of bass for sure... Is hooking up the integrated amp as simple as placing it under the TV with the rest of the components? What about when I want the same program that's playing on the living room speakers? Will there somehow be a way for both receiver and amp to be hooked up? Can you recommend a brand to find used, or a brand that's new and decent but not too expensive?

Thanks very much

If you leave the amp set to the input(on the amp) the MRX 500 is connected to,it will play whatever the MRX 500 is sending to zone 2. On ebay you can find a 100 watt per ch. Pioneer,Sansui,Yamaha,Kenwood etc. integrated amp for a couple hundred bucks or less. It's more a matter of age,condition and sellers feedback than brand. Do not buy a NAD integrated amp;it's very good stuff but their tone controls have a small range,might not give you the boost you want. Also be sure you're not buying something that came out of a rack system. Audiogon will have better stuff but cost more. As I said before,you really don't need high-end to drive a pair of ceiling speakers,but realize at their best they won't sound as good as a pair of good bookshelf speakers. Any chance of hiding a small sub in the room? And yes,the amp can go above,below or next to the MRX 500. The proximity of the amp is only limited by the length of the patch cord.
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post #10899 of 19254 Old 04-14-2012, 03:25 PM
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After about a month of replacing the Polk Monitor 40 fronts with a pair of LCR60 S3 (to match the LCR 600 S3 center), here are my impressions:

-the Polks have a much more forward and aggressive sound. They play louder and a bit lower than the LCR60s. For movies and games, they're great.

-conversely, the LCR60s do not play as loud and are not as aggressive. I have to turn up my Onkyo TX-NR3008 five notches from where I normally played the Monitor 40s for the equivalent loudness. But what you lose in depth and aggression, you get back in musicality, accuracy, and more definition. When I play tracks from the more aggressive bassy sound of "Dr. Stewart" from F-Zero GX to more musical and vocal tracks like "Hills of Radiant Winds" from NIER, there is no comparison. I hear details in music that are covered up by the more bassy and "clumsy" tone of the Monitor 40s.

-the Monitor 40s have been moved to surround duty (while the previous RTi-4 surrounds have been moved to the front shelves for DSX/PLIIz height duty) where their aggressive sound gives away opponents' footsteps while playing online shooters

If you want more in your face aggressive sound, get the Polks. If you are a more critical listener who is willing to give up a bit of bass and loudness for accuracy, get the B&Ws.
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post #10900 of 19254 Old 04-15-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Those, who buys CM series instead of 68x for half of the price. These are "lifestyle" speakers, where look is a major selling point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

Can you really prove it? Didn't you ever think why dealers never have CM9 and 683 in the same showroom?

Every dealer i've been to, including bestbuy, had the CM's right next to the 600's. I heard the CM9 and 683 side to side and they do not sound the same at all. The 683's sounded forward and thin. It had detail, but the thin sound i didn't like. The CM9's had tons of detail and a texture to the sound the 683's didn't have. It was much more full, smoother and rich. It was neither too forward or too laid back, it had a little warmth to the sound that made dialog in movies stand out over the 683's thiness. And the CMC2 is a way better center. This is what i heard. Everybody is different.

People tend to prefer the 683's because as i said, the sound is more forward compared to CM9's. The CM doesn't have this forwardness, it has a little bit of warmth, and i think some some mistake this as having no detail and lacking something compared to the 683's. But that isn't true. The CM's have plenty of detail while being a little warm at the same time from what i've listened to. Im afraid to use the word "warm." People always decribe them as warm, and they somewhat are, but not too much so. It also depends, again from i've listened too, on the movie/music, and electronics.

Yes the CM's are also made to look good, but they sound great too. Perfect combination. With that said, i don't think you can go wrong with either the 683's or CM9's. Just pick what sound you prefer. My taste is more with the CM9's.

home theater addict
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post #10901 of 19254 Old 04-15-2012, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

They actually sounded very similar to me. I bet it would be hard to distinguish if you weren't A/Bing them.

I think that goes for all speakers.

home theater addict
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post #10902 of 19254 Old 04-15-2012, 09:24 AM
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hi think to buy all pl series just for home theater is it ok for home theater?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/monitor-audio-pl300-av



or go for bw nautılus 802,center htm 1 surround 805 nautılus subwoofer pb 1 which set better for home theater?
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post #10903 of 19254 Old 04-15-2012, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by barasn View Post

hi think to buy all pl series just for home theater is it ok for home theater?

http://www.whathifi.com/review/monitor-audio-pl300-av



or go for bw nautılus 802,center htm 1 surround 805 nautılus subwoofer pb 1 which set better for home theater?

I do not know prices in you country, but I suspect B&W will cost you twice more than MA. But if you determined to get good sound, B&W 800 series is better choice.
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post #10904 of 19254 Old 04-15-2012, 04:13 PM
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Seems like overkill for HT.
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post #10905 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 05:31 AM
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"Originally Posted by e84cooper
For all you 685 owner and using them as front left and right what are you using as a receiver? I'm thinking onkyo 818 or pioneer elite"

I'm using NAD T747 and it's really going well. It doesn't have all the connectivity of an Onkyo, Denon or Marantz, but it has a true great sound.
If I would to change it, it would be, probably, for a Marantz 7005. The new Aventage 1010 is also great, but with it reaches 1% of distortion with less power than NAD 747. Same here with Onkyo 709 or 809.
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post #10906 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 07:47 AM
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Man, I got to get me some of these

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/byb...ect-speaker--6
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post #10907 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sofast1 View Post

Man, I got to get me some of these

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/byb...ect-speaker--6

I know! I just ordered 2 pairs!

What the heck?
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post #10908 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Seems like overkill for HT.

What does, the 800 series???

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post #10909 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 03:53 PM
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Yes the 800 series.
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post #10910 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Yes the 800 series.

Interesting.

I upgraded from a Technics speaker system (can't remember the model numbers right off but the mains were towers) to a Paradigm Reference system consisting of Paradigm Reference Studio 100v2's and a Studio CCv2 up front then to the 802 Diamonds and HTM2 Diamond and the difference in performance in each upgrade was astonishing and the Paradigms were pretty darn good if I do say so myself. The entire soundstage opened up each time even on DVD, clearer, more focused and a much larger preceived, immersive wall of sound. The HTM2 absolutely destroyed the performance of the Studio CC for example as did the Paradigms to the Technics before that.

We are all different of course but I personally don't buy the argument that because DVD's use compressed audio and Blu-ray movies aren't 96/24 (that's typically only seen in concert Blu-rays) that spending any more than modest amounts of cash on home theater gear (as opposed to a 2 channel audio only rig) is a waste because you will not hear improvements. Speakers are responsible for what we hear more than the receiver or SSP/amps simply because so few speakers would be completely neutral imparting no character of their own on the sound so to me at least it just makes sense to put the largest part of the budget into the speakers. Heck I would wager the room has more effect on the overall sound we actually hear than even the receiver or SSP/amps.

You would seem to disagree however and I completely respect that.

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post #10911 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 07:17 PM
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Most of the material I hear in HT sound tracks are dialog in the center and ambient sounds or the musical soundtrack in the LR and sometimes in the rears.

A set of speakers designed for reference music playback seems to be underutilized if playing HT.
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post #10912 of 19254 Old 04-16-2012, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post


Interesting.

I upgraded from a Technics speaker system (can't remember the model numbers right off but the mains were towers) to a Paradigm Reference system consisting of Paradigm Reference Studio 100v2's and a Studio CCv2 up front then to the 802 Diamonds and HTM2 Diamond and the difference in performance in each upgrade was astonishing and the Paradigms were pretty darn good if I do say so myself. The entire soundstage opened up each time even on DVD, clearer, more focused and a much larger preceived, immersive wall of sound. The HTM2 absolutely destroyed the performance of the Studio CC for example as did the Paradigms to the Technics before that.

We are all different of course but I personally don't buy the argument that because DVD's use compressed audio and Blu-ray movies aren't 96/24 (that's typically only seen in concert Blu-rays) that spending any more than modest amounts of cash on home theater gear (as opposed to a 2 channel audio only rig) is a waste because you will not hear improvements. Speakers are responsible for what we hear more than the receiver or SSP/amps simply because so few speakers would be completely neutral imparting no character of their own on the sound so to me at least it just makes sense to put the largest part of the budget into the speakers. Heck I would wager the room has more effect on the overall sound we actually hear than even the receiver or SSP/amps.

You would seem to disagree however and I completely respect that.

You don't have to tell me twice. If I could own 802 diamonds I would.
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post #10913 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post

Most of the material I hear in HT sound tracks are dialog in the center and ambient sounds or the musical soundtrack in the LR and sometimes in the rears.

A set of speakers designed for reference music playback seems to be underutilized if playing HT.

But that's the beauty of it. If you don't have a separate dedicated music rig you also reap the benefits of the better speakers when actually listening to music be that stereo CD played back in stereo or using a surround mode i.e Dolby PLIIx, dts Neo, Logic 7, THX Ultra, etc. or better yet listening to SACD, DVD-A or Blu-ray audio.

Concerning the dialog in movies, you are right, most comes from the center and I found it pays dividends to have the best speaker you can for the center to allow the dialog to come through effortlessly and not get lost in the surround mix without having to permanantly boost the centers volume level or the need to have the remote in hand during the movie to raise and lower the volume in order to properly hear the center. Been there, did that especially with my Technics setup.

For my setup I actually wanted a 3rd 802 Diamond (as a single it wasn't much more than the HTM2 plus it's stand) but because my tv sits on a 20" stand that was not reasonable because I would have had to put the speaker off to the side of the tv and fairly close to to either the left or right speaker.

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post #10914 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 07:03 AM
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I don't see ever listening to SACD, DVD-A or Blu-Ray. Those are niche formats but I can see an audiophile going for them.

I sit down primarily for TV and movies. Rarely will sit down for listening just to music, though I do have an Airplay setup in my Denon receiver so I could listen but if I were more serious about listening to music under optimal conditions, I'd have a CD (or SACD, DVD-A, Blu-Ray Audio player as well as discs encoded in those formats). And certainly better speakers.

So my speakers are playing TV and movie soundtracks 99% of the time.
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post #10915 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 02:56 PM
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Hey guys,

New to the forum, 1st post, but been around checking it out for a while now.

Just bought a pair of 684s & HTM62 powered w/ Denon AVR-2112CI. Currently using 2 DefTech Pro600s for rears from the Pro600 5.1 box setup w/ Pro800 sub. I will be adding a pair of 685s rears, 686s sides and haven't decided on a sub yet, possibly MartinLogan dynamo 500/700 or Epik Legend.

I use my setup for 70% games, 20% HT, and 10% music...yes, I know those percentages don't match w/ why I chose speakers that are better for music, but I listened to DefTech supertowers 8020/8040 which are supposed to be better for HT/games, but they seemed muddy and lacked clarity compared to the B&Ws. Another reason is I am also a musician (Schecter guitars, Mesa Boogie 100w Roadster w/ oversized 4x12 rectifier cab, MXR pedals w/ voodoo labs pedal switcher, furman conditioner, db 2x15ch eq, and bbe maxcom compressor) and I love the clear highs, warm mids and even distinct mid-bass/bass w/ these 684s.

I'm moving into a new house soon and the HT/music room will be about 12wx25l, so my question is what sub would you guys pair w/ my current setup? My price range is $500-$800, I like to "feel" the bass in movies, games and music, though I don't listen to a lot of bass-heavy music even though I still want to feel even hard rock bass.

Sorry for the long post, but just wanted to be clear on my current setup and needs.

P.S. I posted in the B&W thread to get advice from ACTUAL owners of these great speakers
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post #10916 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by seanyx11 View Post

Hey guys,

New to the forum, 1st post, but been around checking it out for a while now.

Just bought a pair of 684s & HTM62 powered w/ Denon AVR-2112CI. Currently using 2 DefTech Pro600s for rears from the Pro600 5.1 box setup w/ Pro800 sub. I will be adding a pair of 685s rears, 686s sides and haven't decided on a sub yet, possibly MartinLogan dynamo 500/700 or Epik Legend.

I use my setup for 70% games, 20% HT, and 10% music...yes, I know those percentages don't match w/ why I chose speakers that are better for music, but I listened to DefTech supertowers 8020/8040 which are supposed to be better for HT/games, but they seemed muddy and lacked clarity compared to the B&Ws. Another reason is I am also a musician (Schecter guitars, Mesa Boogie 100w Roadster w/ oversized 4x12 rectifier cab, MXR pedals w/ voodoo labs pedal switcher, furman conditioner, db 2x15ch eq, and bbe maxcom compressor) and I love the clear highs, warm mids and even distinct mid-bass/bass w/ these 684s.

I'm moving into a new house soon and the HT/music room will be about 12wx25l, so my question is what sub would you guys pair w/ my current setup? My price range is $500-$800, I like to "feel" the bass in movies, games and music, though I don't listen to a lot of bass-heavy music even though I still want to feel even hard rock bass.

Sorry for the long post, but just wanted to be clear on my current setup and needs.

P.S. I posted in the B&W thread to get advice from ACTUAL owners of these great speakers

I have 683's and chose a Rythmik F15HP. I actually had a HSU VTF 3.4 for about two months and decided to sell it and get the Rythmik. My only experience is hearing these as well as a Rythmik FV15HP.

I cannot recommend Rythmik enough. The sound quality is superb. They blend right in with my B&Ws and sound totally integrated with them. It's like the great sound quality of my B&Ws now extends down a lot lower. They also have lower cost options as well that will fit your budget, but I ended up paying a bit more for mine than I originally intended and don't regret it one bit.

You will hear a lot of talk about SPL/output in sub research, but how they actually sound seems to be overlooked. If you are looking for tight, controlled sound, Rythmik is great for that.
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post #10917 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 03:24 PM
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I loved the 683s too, great speakers, though my 684 were better matched to my receivers output...anyway, I had looked a little at rhythmik as well, I noticed that even the F12 is rated down to 14hz which seems a bit exaggerated to me considering even your F15HP is rated the same. But, nonetheless, they seem to be very well built subs. I wish I had a place where I could listen to one before buying, which is why I was leaning toward the ML dynamo which I was able to listen to paired w/ my exact setup at the magnolia center local to me.

The F12 is a bit more of my speed I think (and price range ) I don't mind spending a bit more than my budget, but I want to know that money is going to a product that will perform, obviously...
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post #10918 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 03:32 PM
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I just saw the frequency response plot and if it is, in fact, an actual plot, then I'm impressed to say the least that a 12" driver will hit such low numbers.

What do you think of the Epik Legend? At $499, it seems to be a great sub and would (according to data) be close in performance to the rhythmik f12, though not quite as low.
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post #10919 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanyx11 View Post

I loved the 683s too, great speakers, though my 684 were better matched to my receivers output...anyway, I had looked a little at rhythmik as well, I noticed that even the F12 is rated down to 14hz which seems a bit exaggerated to me considering even your F15HP is rated the same. But, nonetheless, they seem to be very well built subs. I wish I had a place where I could listen to one before buying, which is why I was leaning toward the ML dynamo which I was able to listen to paired w/ my exact setup at the magnolia center local to me.

The F12 is a bit more of my speed I think (and price range ) I don't mind spending a bit more than my budget, but I want to know that money is going to a product that will perform, obviously...

From how I understand it, the servo controlled amp allows all of their subs to have more or less the same frequency range, but the larger drivers and larger amps will give you more juice. Their ported subs are tuned around 20 Hz to further emphasize around there for HT and such.

I heard the vented and sealed back to back and they were very similar, with the edge in tightness and clarity going to sealed.

I think you'd be very happy with an F12. F15 is only $100 more and will give you a bit more air movement.
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post #10920 of 19254 Old 04-17-2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

From how I understand it, the servo controlled amp allows all of their subs to have more or less the same frequency range, but the larger drivers and larger amps will give you more juice. Their ported subs are tuned around 20 Hz to further emphasize around there for HT and such.

I heard the vented and sealed back to back and they were very similar, with the edge in tightness and clarity going to sealed.

I think you'd be very happy with an F12. F15 is only $100 more and will give you a bit more air movement.

That makes sense...I am definitely looking at sealed for the extra tightness and lack of "noise" from the port that some subs can emit.

The extra $100 for the F15 seems worth it to me and would probably be what I would end up going with if I go with the rhythmik over ML, Epik, etc.

I appreciate the suggestions
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