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post #1261 of 18824 Old 05-29-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by petergaryr View Post

Even played quietly (I consider 75 db as measured via an SPL meter "quiet"), they produce a well balanced sound. I'm still surprised when I read posts in other threads claiming that these are "bright". Very detailed high end, yes. Very detailed, clear midrange, yes. Distracting or harsh? Hardly. I often wonder under what conditions and connected to what equipment these other posters have listened.

I so agree with this. The CMs are pleasingly neutral in terms of treble energy. I have compared with different speakers and the CM's have the most natural sounding treble out of many speakers, including my previous Epos, Energy, Mirage and even other models of B&W. Initially, I was actually disappointed that there wasn't that treble sparkle that I was used to in other speakers and headphones I monitor with (AKG K701) that I found them kind of dull, but as I listened more and evaluated them on their own, I found their sound to be just right, detailed and lush. I especially like how it renders vocals, which is kind of strange seeing some of the measurements that it has a 5dB dip around 2Khz

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post #1262 of 18824 Old 05-29-2007, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by goe2112 View Post

Peter,
I have followed your postings on your speakers. Although, I have another series set of B&W speakers, I appreciate your time in evaluating and taking time to write about them. Your time and effort helps others. I'm glad your happy with your purchase.
Thanks again.

Glad to be of help. If you've followed all the posts, you probably know I had to buy these "unheard", since my dealer didn't have them in stock and had to do a special order.

At least now there are several of us who have the CM7s and can provide some actual user experience with them.

I'll throw in my usual disclaimer: I have no affiliation with B&W or any dealer or distributor, other than being a satisfied owner!
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post #1263 of 18824 Old 05-29-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

I so agree with this. The CMs are pleasingly neutral in terms of treble energy. I have compared with different speakers and the CM's have the most natural sounding treble out of many speakers, including my previous Epos, Energy, Mirage and even other models of B&W. Initially, I was actually disappointed that there wasn't that treble sparkle that I was used to in other speakers and headphones I monitor with (AKG K701) that I found them kind of dull, but as I listened more and evaluated them on their own, I found their sound to be just right, detailed and lush. I especially like how it renders vocals, which is kind of strange seeing some of the measurements that it has a 5dB dip around 2Khz

I think that's the value of the "break-in" period (or whatever we want to call it).
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post #1264 of 18824 Old 05-31-2007, 12:16 PM
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I own the CM1s and I am lookign to add a subwoofer any suggestions.. should i stay w. b&w even tho they dont make CM sub that matches my CM1? Also, how much do I need to spend on a sub in order to keep the quality the same??
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post #1265 of 18824 Old 05-31-2007, 12:46 PM
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SPL or DD series subs from Velodyne if you are looking for musicality and a good blend.

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Maybe someday in the future we will be able to quantify perceived Sound Quality .
(But not today....)

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post #1266 of 18824 Old 06-01-2007, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Rosaymaan View Post

I own the CM1s and I am lookign to add a subwoofer any suggestions.. should i stay w. b&w even tho they dont make CM sub that matches my CM1? Also, how much do I need to spend on a sub in order to keep the quality the same??

Well, I don't have the CM1s but I've tried the CM7 with both a Velodyne CHT12 and an SVS PC+ sub. Both worked quite well (if you set the crossover low, like around 40 Hz if possible).
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post #1267 of 18824 Old 06-04-2007, 09:42 AM
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Well, just took delivery of a ASW750 sub. Heavy brute. Im gonna play with it for a few days, then rerun the YPAO and mix with placement, but i think its pretty much set now.
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post #1268 of 18824 Old 06-04-2007, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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if you set the crossover low, like around 40 Hz if possible

Usually below 60.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #1269 of 18824 Old 06-04-2007, 05:27 PM
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Last thursday I won an auction on eBay for a mint pair or CDM 9NTs. I paid $1,975. Assuming they are mint and that I use a good amp, do any of you think I will be dissapointed? One reviewer said they beat the Nautilus 805s at $1,000 each, and in some ways outperform the Nautilus 804s at $1,750 each and approach the performance of the Nautilus 803s at $2500 each. (It was written when those were all current models). Apparently I have purchased $3,500 speakers in mint condition for $1,975. I feel ridden with guilt.
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post #1270 of 18824 Old 06-04-2007, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresno1232001 View Post

Last thursday I won an auction on eBay for a mint pair or CDM 9NTs. I paid $1,975. Assuming they are mint and that I use a good amp, do any of you think I will be dissapointed? One reviewer said they beat the Nautilus 805s at $1,000 each, and in some ways outperform the Nautilus 804s at $1,750 each and approach the performance of the Nautilus 803s at $2500 each. (It was written when those were all current models). Apparently I have purchased $3,500 speakers in mint condition for $1,975. I feel ridden with guilt.

I have difficulty believing the review. I believe the CDM 9NT ($2600 new/pair) is replaced by the new 703 ($3000/pair). When I bought my N804 I compared it directly with the 703 and the N804 was better in every way. Forget about any comparisions to the 800 series, enjoy your speakers for what they are

As for price, it seems very high. I bought my N804 pair brand new with warranty for $2700 from a dealer more than two years ago. You can get mint N804 for 2000-2200 at audiogon (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1185812048) and mint 703s for even less so $1975 for the older model seems fairly high even for mint (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1185240542).

Sorry I don't want to come out very negative, but just giving my honest opinion.
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post #1271 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 09:22 AM
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Thanks for the opinion. A pair of Nautilus 805s sold for ~$1775 on ebay a couple weeks ago. I'm thinking that the 703 might be a step down from the CDM 9NT "even though" the CDM 9NT is "the older model". The current 805S is $2,500 new. The CDM 9NT was $2,600 new/pair, as you say. The 805S is a bookshelf speaker and it's hard to believe that it is as good as the CDM 9NT was, for essentially the same money. I can believe that your N804 is better than the 703, but the Q is, "Is the CDM 9NT the same as the 703?". Note that when you bought your N804 it cost less than the 703 ($2,700 for N804 and $3,000 for 703). Now, both used and mint, the N804 costs more. Actually, the MSRP on the N804 was $3,500/pair, so new, it was more than the 703 at $3,000/pair. How did you ever get that huge discount on the N804 new, $800 off? Maybe it is that almost unheard of deal you got that is making my purchase look expensive.
The UPS store in the Dallas area told the seller last Thurs. that they would have the right packing materials on Friday. Then Friday they emailed me that they didn't come in and would on Monday 6-4-2007 and they would ship then. No word from them yet on Tues 6-5. I paid with Paypal and we have several flights daily Fresno to Dallas, so I'm confident I'll get a resolution.
Here's the review of the CDM 9NTs: http://timefordvd.com/hardware/revie...speakers.shtml
BTW, I have mighty Allison Ones as my front mains now, and it is hard to believe that ANY speaker can sound better. They are $5,300 a pair now. Whichever sounds better, Allison Ones or CDM-9NT, will go in the front and the others will become my rear surrounds.


I have difficulty believing the review. I believe the CDM 9NT ($2600 new/pair) is replaced by the new 703 ($3000/pair). When I bought my N804 I compared it directly with the 703 and the N804 was better in every way. Forget about any comparisions to the 800 series, enjoy your speakers for what they are

As for price, it seems very high. I bought my N804 pair brand new with warranty for $2700 from a dealer more than two years ago. You can get mint N804 for 2000-2200 at audiogon (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1185812048) and mint 703s for even less so $1975 for the older model seems fairly high even for mint (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1185240542).

Sorry I don't want to come out very negative, but just giving my honest opinion.[/quote]
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post #1272 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresno1232001 View Post

Thanks for the opinion. A pair of Nautilus 805s sold for ~$1775 on ebay a couple weeks ago. I'm thinking that the 703 might be a step down from the CDM 9NT "even though" the CDM 9NT is "the older model". The current 805S is $2,500 new. The CDM 9NT was $2,600 new/pair, as you say. The 805S is a bookshelf speaker and it's hard to believe that it is as good as the CDM 9NT was, for essentially the same money. I can believe that your N804 is better than the 703, but the Q is, "Is the CDM 9NT the same as the 703?". Note that when you bought your N804 it cost less than the 703 ($2,700 for N804 and $3,000 for 703). Now, both used and mint, the N804 costs more. Actually, the MSRP on the N804 was $3,500/pair, so new, it was more than the 703 at $3,000/pair. How did you ever get that huge discount on the N804 new, $800 off? Maybe it is that almost unheard of deal you got that is making my purchase look expensive.


A deal is as good as you perceive it to be. There will always be someone who gets a better deal, if you feel good about the purchase, thats good enough

The 703/CDM9nT in my experience has more bass than the N805, N804, 805s, but the 800 series had better treble in my opinion. The speaker you got should be mighty fine nevertheless. As long as it is truly mint condition, and everything works as it should, i'd say you have a good chance of being satisfied with the amount you paid and the quality you will get. Could you have paid less? Sure, but thats always true.

From what I have seen on Audiogon, mint N805 goes for 1200$. Ebay might have slightly higher prices.

Enjoy your speakers!
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post #1273 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

The measurement at S&V are pretty bad, huge suckout at 2Khz for every model, which is quite strange.

There's a big difference between the CM1 measurements done at audioholics (comparing both the impulse and in-room). The audioholics shows a much more even response. I wonder why the discrepancy.

Audioholics
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...s-and-analysis

S&V
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html

Here are measurements from the anechoic chamber at the NRC. They seem to correlate with the SV measurements, a dip at 2 kHz and hump in the upper bass. It's easy to see why people like the CM1.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/mea...eakers/bw_cm1/
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post #1274 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Alcasid View Post

Here are measurements from the anechoic chamber at the NRC. They seem to correlate with the SV measurements, a dip at 2 kHz and hump in the upper bass. It's easy to see why people like the CM1.

yeah I saw that. It seems the measurements at Audioholics are flawed. So much for "pursuing the truth in audio and video".

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post #1275 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 01:44 PM
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Thanks for the comments. Now I feel better, but that massive guilt feeling is returning. I'm going from stereo to 4.1 or 5.1 and so I'll be buying either the new Onkyo TX-NR905 receiver or maybe a big Emotiva 200 WPC amp. Reviewers say the BW CDM 9NTs really sound better with plenty of power. It seems that BW and Rotel are the same company somehow, and that they sound great together. So maybe I swallow hard and buy Rotel muscle. Since we can't go out and drive anymore in the U.S., I don't mind putting money into this hobby. With the info you all have provided, I'll keep all the packing material and sell the 9NTs on Ebay if they really dissapoint. It's the PITA factor there that bothers me. BTW a mint pair of black Nautilus 805s went fast for $1775 on eBay two weeks ago and that sort of led to my admittedly high bid on the 9NTs. The seller says mint and he just has rave evaluations on ebay. He's sold a lot on there. It's amazing to me that the N804s were $3,500/pair new and now are mint on Audiogon at $2100, as I am told above. N805s were $2,000 new and now are mint on Ebay at $1775. I think the buyer of those at $1775 and me with the 9NTs at $1975 probably both overpaid a little, but so be it. Anywho, I am fortunate that these will be my rear surrounds, not my front mains if they could be a lot better.
BTW, I read for six weeks on the net, researching speakers. I heard some Dali Icon 2's at a custom installer, and he was willing to sell me them used for a grand. They are bookshelves, and not much base, but the mids and highs were impressive with an Arcam amp. Female vocal especially. Then he let me hear the next step up in Dali's, a floorstander with a woofer or two. They sounded horrible!
I recently heard at a dealer a famous British competitor to B and W, floorstanders at ~$1300 with one woofer and two woofers at $1500/pair. The bigger ones were clearly better in A-B comparison. Then I went back 3 weeks later and heard those big ones play an Aix Records DVD-A I took in. OH GOD, they sounded cheap. Constrained and constricted, like cheap little speakers playing in little, narrow cabinets, which is what they are. Just awful. People are paying $1500 for that?? Geez. I sure hope the 9NTs at $2600/pair new are a LOT better than that. I recommend that you all look at www.allisonacoustics.com and see the Allison Ones. I bought mine in 1976 from Harvey Sound on W. 45th St. in New York. Allison is back in business, the Ones are in somewhat narrower but deeper cabinets now, same drivers, and a little more refined furniture. (Mine are 40 3/8" tall, 19 1/16" wide (!) and 10 1/8 deep. The current ones are 41.31 tall, 15.75 wide and 11.25 deep). Two tweeters, two mids and two 10" woofers in each cabinet. At over 19" wide, mine impress visually and then just enthrall you sonically. Not a lot of dealers, but if you want to just hear fantastic speakers, hear them. MSRP $5300/ pair but Ill bet they can be had for $4000. If you have that to spend, you owe it to yourself to hear them.
And try an Aix Records DVD-A. See my raves over on the Surround Sound formats site here on avsforum. People try them and then they post raves. They are dual disks, DVD-A on one side and DTS 5.1 on the other. You will hear what your system can do for the first time ever. Just stunning fidelity. www.aixrecords.com.


The 703/CDM9nT in my experience has more bass than the N805, N804, 805s, but the 800 series had better treble in my opinion. The speaker you got should be mighty fine nevertheless. As long as it is truly mint condition, and everything works as it should, i'd say you have a good chance of being satisfied with the amount you paid and the quality you will get. Could you have paid less? Sure, but thats always true.

From what I have seen on Audiogon, mint N805 goes for 1200$. Ebay might have slightly higher prices.

Enjoy your speakers![/quote]
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post #1276 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 02:11 PM
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In the US, Equity International distributes Rotel, B&W, Classe. They all do have some synergy, but does not limit you to only these 3 companies.

At the worst, you can sell back your speakers for almost no loss, and try again. There are too many speakers out there, and you may not land your finger on the "Correct" one in your lifetime. You just have to try your best with what resources you have at the moment.

I have Rotel electronics and have nothing bad to say about them. I have enjoyed them and they have been good to my speakers.
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post #1277 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 02:40 PM
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Get em home and listen to em, then decide if you are happy with them or not. You'll probably be happy with the sound. Perhaps you might find some few things that are better in the 804, if you do a direct comparision. But why?


I went with the 703's and a fullblown htm7, ds7, asw750 setup for my home theatre. Even got a pair of 685's as the back surround. Im pretty darn happy with em all. Would i have been happier with 804s, perhaps, for two-channel, for HT, i dunno. Would i have been really happy with the 803D, you bet. But somewhere one has to draw the line. I actually thought of going with 804s as i also listen to alot of two-channel, but i usually watch movies more dedicated, and has music on behind when i do other stuff. So i decided to get a good compromise.

A set of 800-series with the rest 700-series (center, surrounds)would have been, hmm, abit akward. And if i go 800-series, i'll go all the way to 803D or so, and then a matching center is required, with the D-trebble and all. And just about as expensive as my whole current setup, including electronics. But someday.


One can spend alot on speakers, even get obsessed and just go one step higher, one step higher, but somewhere the law of dimishing returns start to enter the equation, and your budget/performance ratio will set the limit. I've heard better, as my friend has a studio, but then, a studio is build for sound, my living room isnt. Room treatment usually leaves ALOT to be desired when comming up into these price-ranges.

ps. not that anyone like me that actually get a setup like that and a Rotel RB-1080 and Yamaha RX-V2600 on top of that is'nt obsessed, just not excessively... yet.... ds
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post #1278 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 09:43 PM
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Thank you for the comments. I think I'll be fine with the 9NTs as rear surrounds. You are right that you can escalate forever. I think first class electronics will do more for me now than to spend more on speakers. I'm using a great Tandberg 2075 stereo receiver made by your neighbors in Oslo, Norway. That was the big receiver they made with 75 WPC. Still looks, smells, feels and sounds the way it did when I bought it with the Allisons in 1976. Paid $1,099 for it, a lot then. BTW, the gorgeous Allison Ones cost me $360 each new in '76, (now $5,350/pair) and that influenced my thinking now WRT how much to spend on rear surrounds. I cringe at spending more than $2,000/pair when the Allisons cost $720/pair.
I sounds like you have a very nice system. That you bought that much B and W is a tribute to them. Glad to hear you are happy with Rotel too. Maybe Rotel and Arcam are competitive. Rotel has a towering name. One seems to really get a lot for his money with Emotiva. I have not seen a comparison of Emot. v. Rotel sound-wise, but people love their Emotivas. Their top amp at 200 WPC X 7 weighs 130 lbs., I believe. Their site today says they are sold out of it till August. It's $2900 or something, cheap for such a brute. And they bundle their amps with their pre-amps in package deals that further save money.
Also, BTW, the owner and Chief Engineer of Aix Records, Dr. Mark Waldrep, told me he has 805s as his rear surrounds at home- not sure if N805 or 805S's. Since he has those, I thought the apparently better-sounding 9NTs would be good for my surrounds. He has 802s (!) or 801 (?)s in his studio. I think we march up to $20,000 or $30,000/pair with those. Again, try a couple Aix DVD-As. I tell which are my favorites over on "surround sound formats"-Aix thread. Since DTS 5.1 on one side, you don't even need a DVD-A player, just a DVD player.

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Originally Posted by Aphasia View Post

fresno1232001. Get em home and listen to em, then decide if you are happy with them or not. You'll probably be happy with the sound. Perhaps you might find some few things that are better in the 804, if you do a direct comparision. But why?


I went with the 703's and a fullblown htm7, ds7, asw750 setup for my home theatre. Even got a pair of 685's as the back surround. Im pretty darn happy with em all. Would i have been happier with 804s, perhaps, for two-channel, for HT, i dunno. Would i have been really happy with the 803D, you bet. But somewhere one has to draw the line. I actually thought of going with 804s as i also listen to alot of two-channel, but i usually watch movies more dedicated, and has music on behind when i do other stuff. So i decided to get a good compromise.

A set of 800-series with the rest 700-series (center, surrounds)would have been, hmm, abit akward. And if i go 800-series, i'll go all the way to 803D or so, and then a matching center is required, with the D-trebble and all. And just about as expensive as my whole current setup, including electronics. But someday.


One can spend alot on speakers, even get obsessed and just go one step higher, one step higher, but somewhere the law of dimishing returns start to enter the equation, and your budget/performance ratio will set the limit. I've heard better, as my friend has a studio, but then, a studio is build for sound, my living room isnt. Room treatment usually leaves ALOT to be desired when comming up into these price-ranges.

ps. not that anyone like me that actually get a setup like that and a Rotel RB-1080 and Yamaha RX-V2600 on top of that is'nt obsessed, just not excessively... yet.... ds

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post #1279 of 18824 Old 06-05-2007, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresno1232001 View Post

Now, both used and mint, the N804 costs more. Actually, the MSRP on the N804 was $3,500/pair, so new, it was more than the 703 at $3,000/pair. How did you ever get that huge discount on the N804 new, $800 off? Maybe it is that almost unheard of deal you got that is making my purchase look expensive.

I got my N804 the same weekend the dealer got his first shipment of the new (now not so new) 800 series and he was trying to get rid of his old stock. It was funny because they had boxes of speakers everywhere in the store. Actually I paid even less than the asking 2700 as I bought an Arcam receiver and some kimber cables and a a richard grey power plant.

I do agree with the other posters that the 804 lacks serious bass (who knows maybe with enough power?), but I have a Velo DD12 subwoofer so bass is not an issue

I feel like the highs and mids of the N804/804S are just on a different league in terms of crystal clear smoothness. I just can't get used to the tweeter of any other B&W speakers series--they all seem very rough or scratchy for lack of a better word.

I am sure the CDM 9NTs are fantastic speakers--actually I walked into the store (soho, nyc) planning to listen to the CDM bookshelves as I read good reviews about them and didn't know the 700 series had come out and replaced them. I was about to put down 3000 for the 703s but as I was hesitent, the dealer cut me a deal on the N804.
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post #1280 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 11:06 AM
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Can someone explain how to easily spot the difference between Nautilus 804 (old serie) and the newer 804S. There is a lot of confusion on the used market, as people advertise their speakers as Nautilus 804S, or N804S. A good bargain price on 804S is not such a good deal if in the end, they were N804.
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post #1281 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 11:09 AM
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Difference between 804s och N804
I looked at the difference on the B&W site. The N804 has the B&W logo at the botton in silver finnish. The 804s has a small black square with silver B&W in it.
The 804s also uses the Rohacell basses, which means it also uses carbon fiber on the outside instead of a paper kevlar mix. Last but not least, look at images and the lowest bass and the port. On the N804 you have a circle, than straight lines down to the smaller cicle on the port. On the 804s, the lines are smooth and curved from the large circle along the bass down to the smaller circle around the port.



Pricing Levels
To put things into abit of perspective. Around here we have a single supplier of B&W speakers for the whole country. And we also have a 25% VAT. Which means are prices are rather high. I would love to have your pricing levels here.

To say that you need to put down 3K for the 703's, thats what the 704's cost around here. A pair of new 804s would have costed me $5250.
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post #1282 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gagnon77 View Post

Can someone explain how to easily spot the difference between Nautilus 804 (old serie) and the newer 804S. There is a lot of confusion on the used market, as people advertise their speakers as Nautilus 804S, or N804S. A good bargain price on 804S is not such a good deal if in the end, they were N804.

The N804 tweeter is pushed back by about 0.5-1". THe 804s tweeter grille is flush with the front baffle.

N804 comes in Red Cherry, 804s comes in Rosenut.

If you see Red Cherry, it is automatically N804. If you see the tweeter pushed back it is an N804.

Also if you read the nameplate on the rear of the speaker...
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post #1283 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 11:37 AM
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Wow. That was quick ! Thanks a lot.
I think the easiest difference to spot is the black part between the lowest bass and the port.

As for pricing, the problem is not confined to Sweden. Here in Canada, 704 are 3200$ CDN and 703 are 4400$ CDN. With the actual exchange rate, these translate to approx. 3000$ USD and 4200$ USD, respectively. And I live 70 km away from the border.
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post #1284 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 02:38 PM
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I'll soon find out if my CDM 9NTs have rough and scratchy tweeters. They left Dallas last night and will be here soon. I have found that www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers is an absolute gold mine of information. Last weekend I read and printed out 62(!) owner reviews of the 9NTs. You see in these that the tweeters can be bright and irritating if you use the wrong amps, receivers and/or CDs. People recommend "warm" sounding amplification with them. Since you apparently A-B'd your N804s with the 703s and not with the 9NTs, I suggest you take a look at those. The 703s were $3,000/pair and the 9NTs were $2600/pair, so one indeed might think the 703s woud be better than the 9NTs, but that may be a rash assumption.
Review #9 of the 9NTs: "In my auditions, I could not justify purchasing the N804, as the CDM 9NT kept up note for note". Review #16: "Rock and Roll buffs will probably not be well-served by the CDM-9NT, since they tend to sound brash with compressed material, but for classical and jazz listeners, this speaker has an almost perfect combination of virtues and few noticable flaws". Review #17: "I would prefer it over the 804s. The best sound for classical music". Review #31: "I didn't notice a vast difference in sound as I did in the price between the 9NT and the 804". But yet, in Review #25: "A major failing of these speakers (9NT) was their lack of smoothness. Have a listen to the Nautilus 804, hear the difference? More coherent, less noise and very smooth with just as much if not more detail than the 9NT". Different people are hearing different things it appears.
You are right about the prices used for N804s. I just found someone in Sacramento, Calif. selling a pair for $2,200 OBO on www.audiogon.com. The dark cherry finish. That is a 175 mile drive from me and I could get them home in the trunk in two trips. Hence, no shipping and no tax. I am tempted to buy them now before the 9NTs even get here! You have me on the edge here. With a $900 price difference when new, the N804 SHOULD sound better than the 9NTs. The gentleman in Sweden should note that $2200/pair price for these 804s on Audiogon since they were over $5,000 new there.
Something I noticed in actually listening to speakers: A manufacturer will produce a terrific sounding bookshelf speaker with great mids and highs, and then try to produce a full-range floorstander by just adding a cheapish woofer or two. THAT can be a disaster. It was with the Dalis I heard. The consumer would be far happier with the bookshelf and then a great subwoofer. Your total outlay may be a little more, but who wants cheap, dirty, irritating base just ruining everything when for a little more money you could have great base and the great mids and highs of the bookshelf? I suggest this as a guiding principal, if I may be so bold.

I feel like the highs and mids of the N804/804S are just on a different league in terms of crystal clear smoothness. I just can't get used to the tweeter of any other B&W speakers series--they all seem very rough or scratchy for lack of a better word.
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post #1285 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 03:01 PM
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Speaker reviews are always highly subjective. You will also find that people tend to favor what they own, and come up with justifications for why it was better than something else they couldn't purchase for some reason. The truth is, the CDM9NT is a great speaker. I have not heard the new 700 series, but I have no reason to doubt that they too are great speakers. I do own the N804 and they are also great speakers. It all comes down to personal preference and budget.
I was somewhat surprised to find that I preferred the era Design 4 to several B&W speakers costing much more for my computer setup. In the end, my budget wont change, but the B&W offerings were a bit bright in nearfield. The same B&W speakers didn't have that harshness when used at more traditional listening distances, so it is all a matter of application and tastes.
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post #1286 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 03:44 PM
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I was somewhat surprised to find that I preferred the era Design 4 to several B&W speakers costing much more for my computer setup. In the end, my budget wont change, but the B&W offerings were a bit bright in nearfield.

Interesting.... I and a few others I know , have had a few problems deciding between Design5's and CM1's

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post #1287 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 04:27 PM
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Fresno,
You will like the CDM9NT's. I had the 7NT's for a few years. I used an Outlaw monoblock pair and then a Krell Kav250A. The tweeters are clear as a bell but can get a little bright in a very reflective room. Nothing to worry about. Enjoy.
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post #1288 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 04:49 PM
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Here's a quote from a review of the N804 on audioreview: Review #21: "These speakers (N804) seem to me to have an even more pronounced midbass hump than the 7NT's I have owned, and not really any more extension or accuracy than the CDM 9NT's which are $1K less. Other than a much nicer cabinet and slightly cleaner top end, you are getting little or no upgrade from the CDM NT series. To be objective, I auditioned right up the food chain through the 803's to the new Signature 800's, and here is my verdict. The 804's for some reason are not executed well at their $3500 price point. Something was left out as the 803's mark a huge jump in realism, imaging, bass definition, and bass extension for $1,500 more". "... I must recommend either jumping to the 803's or looking at other speakers, or even buying the CDM 9NT's which sound almost identical for less money." "My purchase decision was not the 803's but instead the Monitor Audio Gold Reference 60's which I think bring more pinpoint imaging and depth, color-free midrange, and bass extension at a much lower street price than the 803's which rarely seem to be discounted". (Paragraph). Ok, I'll now cease and desist quoting reviews re the N804 v. CDM 9NTs. It looks like Akhter and I should both sell our speakers and beat the bushes for used 803's at great prices- Fresno1232001..


I feel like the highs and mids of the N804/804S are just on a different league in terms of crystal clear smoothness. I just can't get used to the tweeter of any other B&W speakers series--they all seem very rough or scratchy for lack of a better word.
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post #1289 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 04:59 PM
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I feel like the highs and mids of the N804/804S are just on a different league in terms of crystal clear smoothness. I just can't get used to the tweeter of any other B&W speakers series--they all seem very rough or scratchy for lack of a better word.

That tweeter (with differant tubes) has decended now into other series in their line-up.

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post #1290 of 18824 Old 06-06-2007, 06:33 PM
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Re the Monitor Audio Gold Reference 60's which are mentioned in the review of the N804's above, which I quoted, I just read 18 reviews of those MA 60's on audioreview. Owners say that, at MSRP of $4000, they compare very well with B&W N803's at $5000 MSRP. One guy griped about fit and finish, and then didn't like the sound as time went by. But most seem to like them at least as well as N803's. So maybe the holy grail for a lot of us is to find a pair of used MA 60's at around $2,000. In effect, get $5,000 N803's for $2,000. (Er, not holy grail.. maybe "worthy objective").
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