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post #14401 of 19231 Old 07-29-2013, 12:17 PM
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The "axis" is an imaginary line from the center of the tweeter, perpendicular to the baffle (front face of the speaker. assuming it is the tweeter since it is the most directional)
So imagine a laser beam shooting from the tweeter, straight out. "On-axis" would mean your head would be in-line with the laser beam. Really high frequencies are like a laser beam, and low frequencies are like the light from flourescent tubes (multi-directional).
The freqs from a tweeter can literally shoot right past you or over your head if you are too far off-axis, depending on the design of the speaker of course.

***I suppose the laser beam analogy would be more conical from the tweeter and not as linear, but you get the point!

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post #14402 of 19231 Old 07-29-2013, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

It's not toe-in, per se.  It is whether you are on axis or not.  On axis is usually brighter and toe-in or toe-out reduces that.
Thanks Kal, that's what I remember...
So I shoot the 804D down the hall, with just a hint of toe-in, such that the line of the tweeter goes slightly wider than my ears rather than directly at my ears.. the 804D was measured to have a exciting upswing in the treble by a UK rag not longer, and that has also been my experience..
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post #14403 of 19231 Old 07-29-2013, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by danielo View Post

I ended up with about 50% toe-in between direct and aimed at ears. The signal now crosses behind th MLP ill probably fiddle a little more over the next few weeks. Daniel.

50% toe-in tat seams execive what for I thought 30% was max?
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post #14404 of 19231 Old 07-29-2013, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

50% toe-in tat seams execive what for I thought 30% was max?

There can never be an exact percentage as you don't know how far the speakers are apart and how far from the plane made by the speakers vertically to the listener, i.e. the distance from the speakers to the listener are. This is why I suggest listening and not abiding by any exact number.

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post #14405 of 19231 Old 07-29-2013, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post


when you speak of " on axis" are speaking of the triangle formed from front left and right speaker to the main listening position?

my problem with the triangle is in a home theater environment.... because there is also a calculation for the seating distance dependent on the size of the screen you are using...

Bill

Nope.  On-axis means that the speaker axis (particularly, the tweeter) is aimed directly at the main listening position.  Has nothing to do with the actual angle which, as you say, is dependent on distance.


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post #14406 of 19231 Old 07-29-2013, 05:13 PM
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I am 8.75 feet away from the front and I toed in by ear :)

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post #14407 of 19231 Old 07-30-2013, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

50% toe-in tat seams execive what for I thought 30% was max?

Again thanks for the many replies on this, got some interesting new hints esp. during ht/audyssey setup is something i didn't think about.

I guess i was unclear i mean 50% between no toe-in and directly aimed at MPL. In real numbers i would say about 15% maybe, The end result is that the 'laser beams' would cross about 1 - 2 meters behind the MPL instead of hitting the ears.

I agree that testing is best and ill continue to fiddle a little making markets on the floor to keep track of things. Like stated already its so easy with the 802D2's on the casters.

Also keep in mind i am happy with the sounds now i think the biggest problems where already solved i had mostly with the htm2d correct placement/angle solved that.

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post #14408 of 19231 Old 07-30-2013, 12:49 AM
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I follow below guide for positioning


http://audiophysic.de/aufstellung/beispiel_e.html
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post #14409 of 19231 Old 07-30-2013, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I am 8.75 feet away from the front and I toed in by ear smile.gif

You must have some dam strong ears! Lol ( sorry )
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post #14410 of 19231 Old 07-30-2013, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


Again thanks for the many replies on this, got some interesting new hints esp. during ht/audyssey setup is something i didn't think about.

I guess i was unclear i mean 50% between no toe-in and directly aimed at MPL. In real numbers i would say about 15% maybe, The end result is that the 'laser beams' would cross about 1 - 2 meters behind the MPL instead of hitting the ears.

I agree that testing is best and ill continue to fiddle a little making markets on the floor to keep track of things. Like stated already its so easy with the 802D2's on the casters.

Also keep in mind i am happy with the sounds now i think the biggest problems where already solved i had mostly with the htm2d correct placement/angle solved that.

Daniel.

The more general way to describe toe-in is to use degrees with no toe-in (speakers aimed straight, perpendicular to their common plane) as 0deg.   


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post #14411 of 19231 Old 07-30-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View PostYou must have some dam strong ears! Lol ( sorry )

Yes they are very big as well!

 

I don't get it Ah! Ah!

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post #14412 of 19231 Old 07-30-2013, 01:23 PM
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Not a B&W owner, but for those who don't know and might be interested Genelec has a great iPhone app which will calculate the angle for toeing-in (sp?) speakers. I think it costs $0.99. I've used it and it works great! Don't know if it's available on Windows or Android...
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post #14413 of 19231 Old 07-31-2013, 04:55 AM
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Hi all

I'm currently looking to build my HT around Onkyo and B&W in a 7.1 setup.

Sadly I'm not very technically into audio and the whole setup 'thing', but I hope some of you can help me out.

The L/R speakers will be the B&W 684, the center a B&W HTM61 and the four surround speakers will be in-ceiling due to space and other issues and for these ones I'm looking at the CCM362.

Can anyone tell me if those four in ceiling speakers will be good for the job and will they be able to keep up with those L/C/R? I just need them to create a surroundbubble so I hope they're strong enough...

In addition, with this setup, what sub do you all recommend? Is the best choice a sub from B&W itself or is there a better alternative?

I know, many many questions biggrin.gif
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post #14414 of 19231 Old 07-31-2013, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert170881 View Post

Hi all

I'm currently looking to build my HT around Onkyo and B&W in a 7.1 setup.

Sadly I'm not very technically into audio and the whole setup 'thing', but I hope some of you can help me out.

The L/R speakers will be the B&W 684, the center a B&W HTM61 and the four surround speakers will be in-ceiling due to space and other issues and for these ones I'm looking at the CCM362.

Can anyone tell me if those four in ceiling speakers will be good for the job and will they be able to keep up with those L/C/R? I just need them to create a surroundbubble so I hope they're strong enough...

In addition, with this setup, what sub do you all recommend? Is the best choice a sub from B&W itself or is there a better alternative?

I know, many many questions biggrin.gif

In celing for surround duty should be Ok for movies. If you are are serious about surround music, I would try to accomodate standalone speakers like 685 (yes, they can be mounted on walls).

I wouldn't even think about B&W when I choose subwoofer. Lok at SVS, HSU and alik - much better value for the money.

I strongly suggest to consider 683 as fronts. They are much better than 684, for not much more money and closer match for HTM61 center.
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post #14415 of 19231 Old 07-31-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert170881 View Post

Hi all

I'm currently looking to build my HT around Onkyo and B&W in a 7.1 setup.

Sadly I'm not very technically into audio and the whole setup 'thing', but I hope some of you can help me out.

The L/R speakers will be the B&W 684, the center a B&W HTM61 and the four surround speakers will be in-ceiling due to space and other issues and for these ones I'm looking at the CCM362.

Can anyone tell me if those four in ceiling speakers will be good for the job and will they be able to keep up with those L/C/R? I just need them to create a surroundbubble so I hope they're strong enough...

In addition, with this setup, what sub do you all recommend? Is the best choice a sub from B&W itself or is there a better alternative?

I know, many many questions biggrin.gif

If you are looking to match the front in terms of drivers, then you need to be looking at the CCM663. If you are doing 5 channel then perhaps the CCM683 instead of two sets of CCM362. If you are planning on 7 channel then you should go in-wall or free standing as ap1 suggests. I second the choice to go to the 683 if you have room and budget. If you plan a B&W sub, then I would look at at least the ASW610XP or bigger depending on room size.

B.
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post #14416 of 19231 Old 07-31-2013, 12:36 PM
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Thank you all for the quick and good replies! I'll look into it guys.
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post #14417 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 09:28 AM
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Not sure if this is the right tread for my issue and help needed but here it goes. I purchased 5 B&W speakers, 2 605 s2 and 2 601s2 and a cc6s2, after getting these home I realized the amp in one 605 does not turn on, I checked the fuse and its not blown. The subs in the other 605 sound blown, they rattle and don't hit low. I pulled the subs from the other 605 and swapped them and both of those sound blown too frown.gif. I have a half ass sub so I calibrated the speakers to run like a bookshelf and it seams the mid/woofers are not functioning properly. They sound like they are not going below 2000 hz, absolutely no bottom end. the only good news is the tweeters sound great.

The 601 book shelf's only one woofer works, the other woofer seams stuck. IT won't flex in our out but appears to look great, any suggestions ? good news is both of the tweeters sound great.

The center works and sounds great.

My equipment is a Marantz 1403 receiver at 50 watts. I know its a little low on power but I tested it against all the other Marantz at Magnolia and It held up fine with all the B&W speakers on demo. I double checked all connections and tried anouther speaker to verify that it was not the receiver.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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post #14418 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 10:40 AM
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I am thinking on upgrading my MK S150 speaker system for a B&W 803 system. In this part of the world I am able to get a demo model for the LCRs at 20%.
The center channel is an HTM2. Is this a fair deal? I heard that for brand new you can normally get at 10 % discount. However, the demo units have only been used for about 3 weeks so they still haven't completely break in. What do you think?

Christian

My DVD and Blu Ray collection

JVC RS65, ST 130, B&W 803 Diamonds mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center channel,B&W 805 Diamond surrounds, B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem D2v, Parasound Halo A51+A21,Oppo BDP 103,PS Audio Power Plant Premier,Darbee Darblet
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post #14419 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_bling View Post

Not sure if this is the right tread for my issue and help needed but here it goes. I purchased 5 B&W speakers, 2 605 s2 and 2 601s2 and a cc6s2, after getting these home I realized the amp in one 605 does not turn on, I checked the fuse and its not blown. The subs in the other 605 sound blown, they rattle and don't hit low. I pulled the subs from the other 605 and swapped them and both of those sound blown too frown.gif. I have a half ass sub so I calibrated the speakers to run like a bookshelf and it seams the mid/woofers are not functioning properly. They sound like they are not going below 2000 hz, absolutely no bottom end. the only good news is the tweeters sound great.

The 601 book shelf's only one woofer works, the other woofer seams stuck. IT won't flex in our out but appears to look great, any suggestions ? good news is both of the tweeters sound great.

The center works and sounds great.

My equipment is a Marantz 1403 receiver at 50 watts. I know its a little low on power but I tested it against all the other Marantz at Magnolia and It held up fine with all the B&W speakers on demo. I double checked all connections and tried anouther speaker to verify that it was not the receiver.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I would take them back. As is, they are 10 years old and if you check the parts (assuming they are still available), are probably way more expensive than fixing all those bad speakers is worth. It sounds like the speakers have been abused, so I would have concerns about the other speakers even if they appear "okay."

The parts website is: http://bwgroupsupport.com/parts/price-avail

B.
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post #14420 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

I am thinking on upgrading my MK S150 speaker system for a B&W 803 system. In this part of the world I am able to get a demo model for the LCRs at 20%.
The center channel is an HTM2. Is this a fair deal? I heard that for brand new you can normally get at 10 % discount. However, the demo units have only been used for about 3 weeks so they still haven't completely break in. What do you think?

Sounds fair assuming they are 803D2 and HTM2D.

B.
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post #14421 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Sounds fair assuming they are 803D2 and HTM2D.

B.

They told me and seem to be the latest model...

Christian

My DVD and Blu Ray collection

JVC RS65, ST 130, B&W 803 Diamonds mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center channel,B&W 805 Diamond surrounds, B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem D2v, Parasound Halo A51+A21,Oppo BDP 103,PS Audio Power Plant Premier,Darbee Darblet
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post #14422 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_bling View Post

Not sure if this is the right tread for my issue and help needed but here it goes. I purchased 5 B&W speakers, 2 605 s2 and 2 601s2 and a cc6s2, after getting these home I realized the amp in one 605 does not turn on, I checked the fuse and its not blown. The subs in the other 605 sound blown, they rattle and don't hit low. I pulled the subs from the other 605 and swapped them and both of those sound blown too frown.gif. I have a half ass sub so I calibrated the speakers to run like a bookshelf and it seams the mid/woofers are not functioning properly. They sound like they are not going below 2000 hz, absolutely no bottom end. the only good news is the tweeters sound great.

The 601 book shelf's only one woofer works, the other woofer seams stuck. IT won't flex in our out but appears to look great, any suggestions ? good news is both of the tweeters sound great.

The center works and sounds great.

My equipment is a Marantz 1403 receiver at 50 watts. I know its a little low on power but I tested it against all the other Marantz at Magnolia and It held up fine with all the B&W speakers on demo. I double checked all connections and tried anouther speaker to verify that it was not the receiver.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
My Question where did you buy these speakers,plus you need much better receiver to push BW's speakers.
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post #14423 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_bling View Post

Not sure if this is the right tread for my issue and help needed but here it goes. I purchased 5 B&W speakers, 2 605 s2 and 2 601s2 and a cc6s2, after getting these home I realized the amp in one 605 does not turn on, I checked the fuse and its not blown. The subs in the other 605 sound blown, they rattle and don't hit low. I pulled the subs from the other 605 and swapped them and both of those sound blown too frown.gif. I have a half ass sub so I calibrated the speakers to run like a bookshelf and it seams the mid/woofers are not functioning properly. They sound like they are not going below 2000 hz, absolutely no bottom end. the only good news is the tweeters sound great.

The 601 book shelf's only one woofer works, the other woofer seams stuck. IT won't flex in our out but appears to look great, any suggestions ? good news is both of the tweeters sound great.

The center works and sounds great.

My equipment is a Marantz 1403 receiver at 50 watts. I know its a little low on power but I tested it against all the other Marantz at Magnolia and It held up fine with all the B&W speakers on demo. I double checked all connections and tried anouther speaker to verify that it was not the receiver.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Did you check them before paying money? I suspect they were sold as-is, right? In that case you are screwed. It will be a lesson for you - next time never buy used gear without thorough testing of it by yourself.
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post #14424 of 19231 Old 08-03-2013, 09:40 PM
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long story short version, I called the gentleman that sold me the speakers and explained that they did not work properly. I met him the next day and he refunded me all the money and then said keep the speakers. He did not have to do this as I f$*% up and did not demo them properly. I never heard the bookshelves and center and the 605 were not hooked up properly so I assumed they worked correctly. bottom line is I own all of them thanks to an honest man. biggrin.gif

The Marantz 1403 has 50 watts, this was more than enough to push the B&W towers at bestbuy. Im sure they can handle alot more but this is what I got to work with.

Does anyone have any suggestions on why the mid/woofers are all bad ? or am I possibly doing something wrong ? any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #14425 of 19231 Old 08-04-2013, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_bling View Post

long story short version, I called the gentleman that sold me the speakers and explained that they did not work properly. I met him the next day and he refunded me all the money and then said keep the speakers. He did not have to do this as I f$*% up and did not demo them properly. I never heard the bookshelves and center and the 605 were not hooked up properly so I assumed they worked correctly. bottom line is I own all of them thanks to an honest man. biggrin.gif

The Marantz 1403 has 50 watts, this was more than enough to push the B&W towers at bestbuy. Im sure they can handle alot more but this is what I got to work with.

Does anyone have any suggestions on why the mid/woofers are all bad ? or am I possibly doing something wrong ? any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Dr.bling I work in BestBuy part time and 1403 Marantz receiver is a weak receiver,sure you hear something but no soundfield if you going to buy some bookshelves then go with the M-1 and if can't afford BW's speakers and put the right receiver or amp or processor you are wasting your time,if you are cheap then I wasting my time writing to you,when im working at BestBuy I don't sugar coat with costumers,so even if buy 600 series in the store with hold package you better have 5 grand to spend.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Dr.bling I work in BestBuy part time and 1403 Marantz receiver is a weak receiver,sure you hear something but no soundfield if you going to buy some bookshelves then go with the M-1 and if can't afford BW's speakers and put the right receiver or amp or processor you are wasting your time,if you are cheap then I wasting my time writing to you,when im working at BestBuy I don't sugar coat with costumers,so even if buy 600 series in the store with hole package you better have 5 grand to spend.
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post #14427 of 19231 Old 08-04-2013, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Dr.bling I work in BestBuy part time and 1403 Marantz receiver is a weak receiver,sure you hear something but no soundfield if you going to buy some bookshelves then go with the M-1 and if can't afford BW's speakers and put the right receiver or amp or processor you are wasting your time,if you are cheap then I wasting my time writing to you,when im working at BestBuy I don't sugar coat with costumers,so even if buy 600 series in the store with hole package you better have 5 grand to spend.
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post #14428 of 19231 Old 08-04-2013, 06:45 AM
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Has anyone used their 803ds with a parasound halo A21? Does it have enough power to drive them?

Christian

My DVD and Blu Ray collection

JVC RS65, ST 130, B&W 803 Diamonds mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center channel,B&W 805 Diamond surrounds, B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem D2v, Parasound Halo A51+A21,Oppo BDP 103,PS Audio Power Plant Premier,Darbee Darblet
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post #14429 of 19231 Old 08-04-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by gonzalc3 View Post

Has anyone used their 803ds with a parasound halo A21? Does it have enough power to drive them?
Yes sir
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post #14430 of 19231 Old 08-04-2013, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Dr.bling I work in BestBuy part time and 1403 Marantz receiver is a weak receiver,sure you hear something but no soundfield if you going to buy some bookshelves then go with the M-1 and if can't afford BW's speakers and put the right receiver or amp or processor you are wasting your time,if you are cheap then I wasting my time writing to you,when im working at BestBuy I don't sugar coat with costumers,so even if buy 600 series in the store with hold package you better have 5 grand to spend.

Well I have a onkyo 803 with a little more ass that i'm going to try today, but i still got a feeling its the speakers and not the receiver. Still hoping someone on here may have some experience with blown b&w or at least have some useful tips on how to get these speakers working. Chine, I dont think my wife would call me cheap but i do have 3 kids so im usualy broke. biggrin.gif
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B W , Bowers And Wilkings 685 Speakers , carver cm-1090
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