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Sasha M's Avatar Sasha M
03:39 PM Liked: 10
post #18631 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 42
Joined: Jun 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasseAddict View Post

I think the failure in the material is related to exposure to direct sun light. I don't know the exact name for the material used, but there's been lots of things such as PVC pipe, ductwork and others things that failed that used the same grey material. I doubt you can get any support from a liability stand point, it's been many years since this issue surfaced. The good news is if you avoid direct sunlight replacement speakers should last a long time.

See Ya,
Steve

So if the replacement drivers use the same material without change, and I cannot change the placement of the speakers in my apartment, I'm basically out of luck. And despite knowing about the issue for years, they still ship replacement drivers with the same material.
Just to explain how sensitive this material is, one of the speakers sees direct sunlight for only minutes, in the early evening, and for only less than 2 months in a year (and not every day is sunny here), and for only the last 4 years, never before, and always with the grille on - yet, apparently that's been enough to kill it.
ClasseAddict's Avatar ClasseAddict
03:53 PM Liked: 20
post #18632 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 171
Joined: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasha M View Post

So if the replacement drivers use the same material without change, and I cannot change the placement of the speakers in my apartment, I'm basically out of luck. And despite knowing about the issue for years, they still ship replacement drivers with the same material.
Just to explain how sensitive this material is, one of the speakers sees direct sunlight for only minutes, in the early evening, and for only less than 2 months in a year (and not every day is sunny here), and for only the last 4 years, never before, and always with the grille on - yet, apparently that's been enough to kill it.

I understand what you are saying, and it's a shame you are having the problem. IMHO I don't think the grills help, sunlight is sunlight for this situation. In addition, sunlight that bounces off something else might also be an issue. In regards to replacement drivers...I think they were made at the same time, so same material. If these speakers were 5 years old they would be in warranty. I'm not not sure of the vintage of these speakers but suspect they are over 15 years old. As a minimum it would be nice to have a trade in option/credit towards new speakers to make the problem go away. However I don't see it happening...at some point products end their life cycle.

See Ya,
Steve
Sasha M's Avatar Sasha M
04:42 PM Liked: 10
post #18633 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 42
Joined: Jun 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasseAddict View Post

I understand what you are saying, and it's a shame you are having the problem. IMHO I don't think the grills help, sunlight is sunlight for this situation. In addition, sunlight that bounces off something else might also be an issue. In regards to replacement drivers...I think they were made at the same time, so same material. If these speakers were 5 years old they would be in warranty. I'm not not sure of the vintage of these speakers but suspect they are over 15 years old. As a minimum it would be nice to have a trade in option/credit towards new speakers to make the problem go away. However I don't see it happening...at some point products end their life cycle.

See Ya,
Steve

They're about 13. Yup, with the thought that had I only bought a different model - a different color, in fact - at the same time, they would be just fine going for another 13...
Definitely makes me feel like not buying B&Ws to replace these :-/
The Murderousone's Avatar The Murderousone
06:01 PM Liked: 24
post #18634 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 291
Joined: Jun 2009
Brain Kahn from hometheater said this:

"In comparison with the 800 Diamonds, the smaller and much less expensive 805 Diamonds provide much of the flagship's performance. The larger 800 of course has significantly more bass extension and impact and the midrange was even more refined. The 805 Diamonds, coupled with a competent subwoofer, such as Bowers & Wilkins' own DB-1, will get you performance much closer to the flagship 800 Diamond than the disparity in price would suggest."


I would like to hear your comments on this?
wse's Avatar wse
06:08 PM Liked: 376
post #18635 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 7,045
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View PostBrain Kahn from hometheater said this: "In comparison with the 800 Diamonds, the smaller and much less expensive 805 Diamonds provide much of the flagship's performance. The larger 800 of course has significantly more bass extension and impact and the midrange was even more refined. The 805 Diamonds, coupled with a competent subwoofer, such as Bowers & Wilkins' own DB-1, will get you performance much closer to the flagship 800 Diamond than the disparity in price would suggest." I would like to hear your comments on this?

Try it yourself and compare for small rooms probably better solution as the 800D need room to grow!


Berland's Avatar Berland
07:12 PM Liked: 13
post #18636 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 77
Joined: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre.goyette View Post

My question is, what are the optimal parameters for the DB1 ? The manual (which is rather poor) implies some settings if you have it paired with other B&W components but seems to leave it at that. I haven't yet had a chance to check out the SubApp.
 

 

- Use the DB1 SubApp!

 

Global settings:

- Adjust input to match speakers (75dB) (Audyssey-enabled AVR receivers have a test sound to measure correct output level; you have one for mono or stereo - according to which input you are using). 

- Low pass filter; ignore this setting if you have a processor/AVR; see elements under Presets for details

- Setting (configure trigger or preset-switch via trigger 1/2) to your likings

 

Presets:

- Input mono/stereo; according to what input you are using. Keep in mind both stereo and mono input can be used and switched between by selecting preset

- System EQ (I use flat, some like Impact for movies... what every you prefer)

- Low-pass filter = out (you disconnect everything relating low-pass filter in the DB1; and use surround processor/avr for these settings

- Level... flat (0) is a good plan.

 

Room-correction:

- Connect microphone; and run calibration (8-steps); keep in mind that the measurement points should be fairly close; else the correction will not be able to adjust for more than the main "peak". I usually run calibration with all 8 steps with microphone placed fairly close in my main listening position. <== NB! point microphone up! Any other direction and you have failed ;) Top of microphone should be at ear level in your main listening position.

 

 

 

If you run Audyssey or similar room-calibration; please make sure to re-run this post DB1 room-correction procedure.


Jon Middleton's Avatar Jon Middleton
07:59 PM Liked: 77
post #18637 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 344
Joined: Sep 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post

Brain Kahn from hometheater said this:

"In comparison with the 800 Diamonds, the smaller and much less expensive 805 Diamonds provide much of the flagship's performance. The larger 800 of course has significantly more bass extension and impact and the midrange was even more refined. The 805 Diamonds, coupled with a competent subwoofer, such as Bowers & Wilkins' own DB-1, will get you performance much closer to the flagship 800 Diamond than the disparity in price would suggest."


I would like to hear your comments on this?

I don't doubt it. It doesn't take much size to play the midrange and HF. The tweeter is the same, but the midrange driver covers a greater range in the 805 vs the 800. It may sound similar, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Try it yourself and compare for small rooms probably better solution as the 800D need room to grow!

It would have to be a very small room before I'd buy anything but the 800D2's.smile.gif
Skrill's Avatar Skrill
10:15 PM Liked: 41
post #18638 of 20011
06-10-2014 | Posts: 558
Joined: Jun 2001
I am thinking of buying some second hand 803Ns. In the pics sent the labels in the backs (where the binding posts are) look different than others I have seen. Did the 803Ns labels change over the course of the production.

In short - I am asking if these look legit.




Berland's Avatar Berland
04:11 AM Liked: 13
post #18639 of 20011
06-11-2014 | Posts: 77
Joined: Apr 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrill View Post

I am thinking of buying some second hand 803Ns. In the pics sent the labels in the backs (where the binding posts are) look different than others I have seen. Did the 803Ns labels change over the course of the production.

In short - I am asking if these look legit.



This looks legit and fine. Same as I have on my B&W Nautilus SCM1 speakers (currently used as surround rears).


Skrill's Avatar Skrill
07:17 AM Liked: 41
post #18640 of 20011
06-11-2014 | Posts: 558
Joined: Jun 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post

This looks legit and fine. Same as I have on my B&W Nautilus SCM1 speakers (currently used as surround rears).

Thank you for the assistance.

just for reference -- this is the other type of label I have seen on Nautilus speakers.


Skrill's Avatar Skrill
10:24 PM Liked: 41
post #18641 of 20011
06-11-2014 | Posts: 558
Joined: Jun 2001
So I picked up these Nautilus 803s. They looked and sounded great. Supposedly owned by a grandfather that passed years ago, and basically left gathering dust since.

They sound amazing in my room -- and a big upgrade to my CDM-9NTs (which are for sale BTW).

I attached a picture -- but it looks like the transit cap has never been removed. Is that bad? Any harm to the speaker by running them with the transit cap on? I assume I should remove it (by backing out the phillips screw) correct?

Any help/advice is appreciated.
Attached: IMG_20140612_000931.jpg (179.2 KB) 
Cal68's Avatar Cal68
03:50 AM Liked: 56
post #18642 of 20011
06-12-2014 | Posts: 571
Joined: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrill View Post

I attached a picture -- but it looks like the transit cap has never been removed. Is that bad? Any harm to the speaker by running them with the transit cap on? I assume I should remove it (by backing out the phillips screw) correct?

Any help/advice is appreciated.
I don't think that leaving the transit caps on would have caused any damage to the speakers. Unknowingly, the transit caps were on my speakers for two years because the guys from the A/V store who delivered and set them up in my basement forgot to remove them. I called B&W when I discovered they had been left on and they assured me that no harm would have been done. However, I have since removed them from my speakers.

Enjoy your 803's. They are great speakers. I have a pair myself!

Cal68
wse's Avatar wse
10:39 AM Liked: 376
post #18643 of 20011
06-12-2014 | Posts: 7,045
Joined: Mar 2008
Great resource it seems many of them get 4 1/2 stars!

http://hometheaterreview.com/multi-c...iers-reviewed/
colparker
04:09 PM Liked: 0
post #18644 of 20011
06-12-2014 | Posts: 1
Joined: Jun 2014
Hi all

Now that I have finally ready every page in this thread, I feel I am ready to contribute!

First, a bit about me. I fell in love with home cinema about 10 years ago while in my 20's. Working as an IT engineer for a media company who master DVDs, I got a call from a sound engineer who was having a problem with his computer. As I entered the studio, the engineer was busy working on the effects for one of the Disney animations, at full volume. The quality of the sound coming from those Genelec speakers stopped me in my tracks! My jaw just dropped open, I couldn't move. The effect of the sparkle and twinkle from the wizards magic wand was so precise, so delicate, so sublime, I have been chasing that quality ever since.

A couple of months later I had maxed out my credit cards and bought some Bowers and Wilkins 700s. I still have them. They were the best speakers out of all of the ones I auditioned at the time by far. Obviously they didn't compare to the sound of a professional studio, but over the years I have been trying everything I can to get them close.

Originally I bought a Denon 3805 amp which I used the auto calibration from. It wasn't great. More recently I upgraded that to a Yamaha 3010. The YPAO on that was also massively disappointing. Very vague. No more than 1 or 2 dB adjustment and always with a small Q. Problem is, I never knew where to start with manual equalisation.

Then I discovered Room Equalisation Wizard (REW). What a difference! At first I was only using it with a Radio Shack SPL meter and calibration file. That was good enough for a while, but buying a proper calibrated microphone (Umik) finally made them sing. I was always a bit apprehensive about using too much EQ, (pure must be better, right?), but when I saw the level of the extent of the EQ adjustments required to get a flat response I was amazed. 20db cuts in some of the low frequencies were recommended by REW. That really stopped the boominess.

To compare the difference before and after REW I used a signal generator to create a sine wave of each frequency of the parametric EQ in my amp. I played them like an album, from 40hz to 16khz. With YPAO EQ enabled there were HUGE jumps in volume. After I switched to manual all tracks sounded pretty much the same. (admittedly after DAYS of learning and tweaking REW).

I also added some crude room treatment. Basically a shower rail between the top of my rear speakers. On it I have a hung some old, thick jumpers, and over that a plain rug to disguise it. Not great, but stops the higher frequencies bouncing of the rear wall well enough to tighten up vocals.

I am pretty happy with my setup. At least I was until recently when I added an SVS SB2000. That has inflamed my upgraditus! The speaker are 10 years old now. It must be time for some new ones...

I arranged an audition of the 800 diamond series at my local dealer. Demo'd both the 805s and 804s driven by both a £2000 receiver and £10,000 power amp. We watched a couple of movies and also listened to some of my favorite files on flac. How disappointing! The 804 did sound better then the 805's in the mid and low end but I have to say neither of them blew me away. Switching to the bigger amp made no difference at all.

I had considered maybe the shop hadn't set the kit up correctly, but we tried different sources; blu ray and media player, and also different amps. Don't get me wrong, they sounded good. But not much that better than mine. The top end didn't have the same sparkle as my setup, despite the diamond tweeters. Mid range was more detailed, but not by much.

I really wanted to be as amazed by them as I was that first day I walked into the sound studio. They SHOULD be a lot better, right?

I am wondering if it simply because my home system is now calibrated to well, a default setup without any equalisation just won't compare. Problem is, I REALLY want some new toys to play with! I just can't justify paying £7,000 for speakers that *might* not be much better.

I guess after all that, I am asking if anyone has experience of a similar upgrade!

Or could recommend other speakers
fokakis1's Avatar fokakis1
09:29 PM Liked: 39
post #18645 of 20011
06-12-2014 | Posts: 177
Joined: May 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by colparker View Post
Hi all...
Thanks for sharing. "Better" is a relative term, especially at the prices of the speakers you are auditioning. I've heard many B&W and I find the Diamonds to carry the "sparkle," and then some.

Keep chasing that sound you heard at the studio. Enjoy the journey in the meantime.
Chise's Avatar Chise
05:45 AM Liked: 95
post #18646 of 20011
06-14-2014 | Posts: 1,293
Joined: Dec 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by fokakis1 View Post
Thanks for sharing. "Better" is a relative term, especially at the prices of the speakers you are auditioning. I've heard many B&W and I find the Diamonds to carry the "sparkle," and then some.

Keep chasing that sound you heard at the studio. Enjoy the journey in the meantime.
Mostly everybody on this forum like to chase that sound.
Badmonbuilt's Avatar Badmonbuilt
07:14 AM Liked: 10
post #18647 of 20011
06-14-2014 | Posts: 30
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figured i would display the setup, now build the subs and get some power amps
Attached: entertainmentcenter.jpg (72.5 KB) 
postrokfan's Avatar postrokfan
10:37 AM Liked: 503
post #18648 of 20011
06-14-2014 | Posts: 2,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmonbuilt View Post
figured i would display the setup, now build the subs and get some power amps
So, you actually did it! How does it sound?
Badmonbuilt's Avatar Badmonbuilt
01:43 PM Liked: 10
post #18649 of 20011
06-14-2014 | Posts: 30
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I like it alot, the mid bass the 685s lacked is now present and I don't feel I lost any clarity. I do think the htm61 center needs to be placed lower or maybe angle it down slightly. With it being close to the presence speakers it's hard to hear the height difference from effects like rain and helicopters.
postrokfan's Avatar postrokfan
02:16 PM Liked: 503
post #18650 of 20011
06-14-2014 | Posts: 2,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmonbuilt View Post
I like it alot, the mid bass the 685s lacked is now present and I don't feel I lost any clarity. I do think the htm61 center needs to be placed lower or maybe angle it down slightly. With it being close to the presence speakers it's hard to hear the height difference from effects like rain and helicopters.
I can't tell from your picture but I would pull the HTM61 center all the way forward and definitely angle it down toward the listening position.
Badmonbuilt's Avatar Badmonbuilt
03:33 PM Liked: 10
post #18651 of 20011
06-14-2014 | Posts: 30
Joined: May 2014
it is right now i think its just to close to the front presence so it takes away the effects on the height (685s). I will try more of a angle or find a way to put it under the tv.
citsur86's Avatar citsur86
09:55 PM Liked: 13
post #18652 of 20011
06-15-2014 | Posts: 118
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Hey all just purchase my first pair of Bowers and Wilkins speakers today. I bought two 684s and they sound great!
Attached: image.jpg (196.7 KB) 
McStyvie's Avatar McStyvie
12:19 AM Liked: 78
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06-16-2014 | Posts: 884
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Congrats cit!!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
citsur86's Avatar citsur86
11:10 AM Liked: 13
post #18654 of 20011
06-17-2014 | Posts: 118
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So I am curious if I should Bi-Wire these or just keep the bridge that came with them since I am not using any additional amps. I purchased Audioquest X2 speaker cable and have that running from my receiver to these two front speakers (B&W 684 S1s). What is the consensus for those that have Bi-wired or haven't, or those who know about it in detail regarding whether these speakers will sound even better with the bi-wiring or not.
wse's Avatar wse
11:51 AM Liked: 376
post #18655 of 20011
06-17-2014 | Posts: 7,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So I am curious if I should Bi-Wire these or just keep the bridge that came with them since I am not using any additional amps. I purchased Audioquest X2 speaker cable and have that running from my receiver to these two front speakers (B&W 684 S1s). What is the consensus for those that have Bi-wired or haven't, or those who know about it in detail regarding whether these speakers will sound even better with the bi-wiring or not.
Does not make any difference!
citsur86's Avatar citsur86
02:14 PM Liked: 13
post #18656 of 20011
06-17-2014 | Posts: 118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
Does not make any difference!
That seems to be the majority consensus. I've tried to do some research into this, even getting into the physics of it at some points. As a formal electrical engineering student turned IT guy, I have to agree with you. I do not see how it is scientifically possible that running separate speaker cable from the same receiver output to two different inputs is any different than basically running one speaker cable from the receiver output to both inputs. If anything, I would argue the latter way would provide better sound due to a lower chance of signal interference or degradation as a result of a decreased amount of speaker cable being run all together.

That being said, the engineer in me wants to try it anyways :-)
Jon Middleton's Avatar Jon Middleton
07:35 PM Liked: 77
post #18657 of 20011
06-17-2014 | Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
That seems to be the majority consensus. I've tried to do some research into this, even getting into the physics of it at some points. As a formal electrical engineering student turned IT guy, I have to agree with you. I do not see how it is scientifically possible that running separate speaker cable from the same receiver output to two different inputs is any different than basically running one speaker cable from the receiver output to both inputs. If anything, I would argue the latter way would provide better sound due to a lower chance of signal interference or degradation as a result of a decreased amount of speaker cable being run all together.

That being said, the engineer in me wants to try it anyways :-)
The engineer in you should summarily discard the biwiring option.
baranowski's Avatar baranowski
06:42 PM Liked: 18
post #18658 of 20011
06-18-2014 | Posts: 386
Joined: Aug 2012
Maybe Patrick could finally she'd some light on why B&W recommends biwiring in the owners manual.

Bill
postrokfan's Avatar postrokfan
08:41 PM Liked: 503
post #18659 of 20011
06-18-2014 | Posts: 2,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post
Maybe Patrick could finally she'd some light on why B&W recommends biwiring in the owners manual.

Bill
Biamping could be beneficial but biwiring would offer no improvement.
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson
08:55 PM Liked: 142
post #18660 of 20011
06-18-2014 | Posts: 28,494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranowski View Post
Maybe Patrick could finally she'd some light on why B&W recommends biwiring in the owners manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Biamping could be beneficial but biwiring would offer no improvement.
Yeah but we want to hear what the "official" line is.
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