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post #18691 of 19918 Old 06-22-2014, 05:18 PM
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Let me see 7 x 150 lbs I will need back surgery after that!
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post #18692 of 19918 Old 06-22-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
There is absolutely an improvement with the spikes (with the sharp or the rubber end.) The casters are only supplied to make it easy to wheel the speakers into place, but are not intended to be a permanent solution. They are a better mechanical interface with the floor than the casters. 2. They allow for the kind of adjustments that are both necessary and impossible with casters.

What kind of sonic changes can you expect to hear? The noise floor drops, soundstage becomes more three dimensional because you can properly align left and right channels, images achieve better focus and stability, improved leading edge attack, better bass slam, etc. Nothing trivial.

Patrick
Hello Patrick,

If you are ever in Southern California please feel free to come and visit!

I will have to think seriously about installing the spikes on seven speakers! As I said my problem is putting the speakers back in place requires some strong abs and the ability to bench press 150lbs maybe one time I might have been able to but that's a long time ago
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post #18693 of 19918 Old 06-22-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Hello Patrick,

If you are ever in Southern California please feel free to come and visit!

I will have to think seriously about installing the spikes on seven speakers! As I said my problem is putting the speakers back in place requires some strong abs and the ability to bench press 150lbs maybe one time I might have been able to but that's a long time ago
I'm not really buying the spike thing. As I said, mechanical coupling to the floor sounds good, but if your cabinet doesn't vibrate anyway, what's the big deal? I can see where distance is important and should be the same from each speaker to the MLP. But small differences in height between speakers and not being exactly plumb shouldn't matter much because minor off axis differences aren't critical unless your horizontal and verical dispersions are laser beams. I've always thought of spikes in much the same way I think about extra binding posts; ie, there to impress audiophiles.

Can anyone explain in precise terms how exactly spikes "lower the noise floor", or somehow improve "bass slam"? I'm skeptical of flowery audiophile terminology, so please explain the physics of these phenomena.
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post #18694 of 19918 Old 06-22-2014, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
...Without the speakers plumb and level, you cannot get a coherent wave launch and stereo only works properly when this can be achieved. Worth the effort.
So this brings me to a question. I am particularly interested in what you or Kalman would recommend concerning the 804 Diamonds.

I have been playing with placement for several weeks now and I think I have them positioned for the best soundstage. I am also using the spikes and they are vertically level wrt left/right tilt.

Having read Kal's review, I noticed that the tweeter measured best at 5 degrees below vertical axis. I understand that the tweeter measurements do not represent the sum of the speaker's performance, but it got me curious. I decided to adjust the spikes such that the speakers are tilted back 5 degrees. At my MLP this puts the bullet dust cap on the mid pointing directly at my ear level (vertically).

My question is: What are your thoughts on tilting the 804's back slightly? I'll hold back my listening impressions until I get some feedback.

Thanks,

Seth


Last edited by fokakis1; 06-22-2014 at 09:28 PM.
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post #18695 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 08:10 AM
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Hi Jon,

In order to work properly, you don't want a loudspeaker cabinet to move in any direction. The whole point of the casters is ease of movement. My observation is that spikes sound better than casters. As it happens, my observation is in agreement with a number of other people who's opinions matter to me. My untested hypothesis? Even though the cabinets are massive, drivers create lateral forces that are sufficient to shift the cabinet forward and aft during playback. If you'd like to study the matter more in depth- have at it.

Stereo works because your ear can perceive where things are in recorded space through a combination of interaural time differences, spectral shifts and interaural level differences. Speakers work by focusing multiple drivers elements in a point in space. A sound projector if you will. In order for speakers to do this coherently, they must be precisely aligned. If not, the system (both speakers) is not coherent. Your ears are very sensitive to time (phase) in particular, and can perceive interaural time differences as little as 6-10 microseconds depending on which literature you are reading. Small differences in height between speakers or whether or not they are exactly plumb are absolutely audible.

Regarding the use of "flowery language", when we talk about what we hear, we're dealing with perception. The only way to talk about perception is to use a vocabulary that describes what we perceive. When we talk about the cherry flavors in wine, we don't say "i detect benzaldehyde." In like fashion, when we hear a loudspeaker enclosure resonating we say boxy. We don't say "it sounds like it has a high q resonance at 1500 cycles.

Regards,

Patrick

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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
I'm not really buying the spike thing. As I said, mechanical coupling to the floor sounds good, but if your cabinet doesn't vibrate anyway, what's the big deal? I can see where distance is important and should be the same from each speaker to the MLP. But small differences in height between speakers and not being exactly plumb shouldn't matter much because minor off axis differences aren't critical unless your horizontal and verical dispersions are laser beams. I've always thought of spikes in much the same way I think about extra binding posts; ie, there to impress audiophiles.

Can anyone explain in precise terms how exactly spikes "lower the noise floor", or somehow improve "bass slam"? I'm skeptical of flowery audiophile terminology, so please explain the physics of these phenomena.
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post #18696 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 08:16 AM
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CM10 and Center CM2 Questions

So over the weekend I purchased a pair of CM10s and I could not be happier. I am still breaking them in and hope to be able to really get into some serious listening and movies shortly.

I probably use them 70% movies and 30% music and my question is regarding movies. I have a Yamaha 1020 being used as a Pre to an Emotiva XPA-5 and after re-running YPAO again, I would like to know if I can set the CM10s and the center channel (CM Center 2) as large / normal without damaging them as apposed to crossing them over at 80 or 60 Hz. I do not have them crossed over at this time and the added bass to my SVS SB12-Plus is great but after the break in I will be turning it up much louder and do not want to cause damage. By much louder I mean from -25/-20 to maybe -15 to -10 where I normally watch movies at.

I had the CM1s up front which have now moved to surround duty and some in ceiling (forgot model) B&W for surround backs. All this in a 10 X 11 foot room. You can never have to much horse power hahaha. It may be overkill but I think it sounds great. I was thinking of adding anothe sub, but will see first if I am happy with the CM10s added bass.
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post #18697 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eandytemp View Post
So over the weekend I purchased a pair of CM10s and I could not be happier. I am still breaking them in and hope to be able to really get into some serious listening and movies shortly.

I probably use them 70% movies and 30% music and my question is regarding movies. I have a Yamaha 1020 being used as a Pre to an Emotiva XPA-5 and after re-running YPAO again, I would like to know if I can set the CM10s and the center channel (CM Center 2) as large / normal without damaging them as apposed to crossing them over at 80 or 60 Hz. I do not have them crossed over at this time and the added bass to my SVS SB12-Plus is great but after the break in I will be turning it up much louder and do not want to cause damage. By much louder I mean from -25/-20 to maybe -15 to -10 where I normally watch movies at.

I had the CM1s up front which have now moved to surround duty and some in ceiling (forgot model) B&W for surround backs. All this in a 10 X 11 foot room. You can never have to much horse power hahaha. It may be overkill but I think it sounds great. I was thinking of adding anothe sub, but will see first if I am happy with the CM10s added bass.
My observations with the CMC2 are that with the port fully opened it tends to sound a bit boxy if sent frequencies below 70Hz. The CM10's however you can comfortably set to probably 50Hz or perhaps lower. I run the CM9's at 55Hz and it seems to work very nicely. Since the CM10's won't have any appreciable output at 45Hz and below I would avoid running them as large and sending that information on to the sub. The information may as well make it to a speaker capable of reproducing the information.

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post #18698 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by fokakis1 View Post
I decided to adjust the spikes such that the speakers are tilted back 5 degrees. At my MLP this puts the bullet dust cap on the mid pointing directly at my ear level (vertically).
You sit taller than I do. I use the 804S as surrounds and, at that position, my ears are just below the tweeter axis. When I auditioned them as main speakers, they were farther away and, although at the same height, my ears were closer to the tweeter axis but still below it. I have not measured the angles.

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post #18699 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 08:37 AM
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Since I purchased the B&W 684s a week ago, I have been reading and learning about my receiver and speakers to a more detailed degree. The main question I have is regarding the Phase and Crossover. I have a Pioneer VSX-522K which I am using as the main receiver for my 5.1 setup. Also - I currently only have some HTIB Yamaha speakers for my center, rears, and sub (will be upgrading over time).

The speakers have the following specifications regarding the Phase and Crossover.

Frequency Response (Phase) = 44Hz–22kHz ±3dB on reference axis
Crossover = 150Hz, 4kHz

Here are my questions:

1. Frequency Response is referring to Phase, correct?
2. My Pioneer VSX-522k seems to only have the following phase settings, 200, 150, 100, 80, 50. I read that your receiver phase should be set to be less than the speaker's Frequency Response capability. Since mine only goes down to 50, would setting it at 50 be correct?
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post #18700 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 08:37 AM
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Hi Seth,

Every speaker has a reference axis where the midrange driver most smoothly crosses over to the tweeter. Additionally, floor bounce reflections can cause bass cancellations which may be ameliorated. Adjusting spikes will allow you adjust the reference axis to your particular needs.

Regards,

Patrick


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Originally Posted by fokakis1 View Post
So this brings me to a question. I am particularly interested in what you or Kalman would recommend concerning the 804 Diamonds.

I have been playing with placement for several weeks now and I think I have them positioned for the best soundstage. I am also using the spikes and they are vertically level wrt left/right tilt.

Having read Kal's review, I noticed that the tweeter measured best at 5 degrees below vertical axis. I understand that the tweeter measurements do not represent the sum of the speaker's performance, but it got me curious. I decided to adjust the spikes such that the speakers are tilted back 5 degrees. At my MLP this puts the bullet dust cap on the mid pointing directly at my ear level (vertically).

My question is: What are your thoughts on tilting the 804's back slightly? I'll hold back my listening impressions until I get some feedback.

Thanks,

Seth
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post #18701 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Since I purchased the B&W 684s a week ago, I have been reading and learning about my receiver and speakers to a more detailed degree. The main question I have is regarding the Phase and Crossover. I have a Pioneer VSX-522K which I am using as the main receiver for my 5.1 setup. Also - I currently only have some HTIB Yamaha speakers for my center, rears, and sub (will be upgrading over time).

The speakers have the following specifications regarding the Phase and Crossover.

Frequency Response (Phase) = 44Hz–22kHz ±3dB on reference axis
Crossover = 150Hz, 4kHz

Here are my questions:

1. Frequency Response is referring to Phase, correct?
2. My Pioneer VSX-522k seems to only have the following phase settings, 200, 150, 100, 80, 50. I read that your receiver phase should be set to be less than the speaker's Frequency Response capability. Since mine only goes down to 50, would setting it at 50 be correct?
You are referring to the frequency response of the speakers, and the crossover frequency of the receiver.

Phase is something completely different, and is caused by two signals of the same frequncy playing back at a slight difference in time. The term Phase shouldn't be used here.

The Pioneer VSX-522k only has a single crossover point that is applied to all speakers that are set to "SMALL". What that means is you will want to choose a crossover freqency that is higher than the worst frequency response of all of your speakers including the Yamaha HTIB speakers. Without knowing the model of the speakers my guess is this is somewhere between 80-150 Hz.

You may get better overall sound and be happier by setting your 684 channels to "LARGE" which will cause them to play back full range and then use 100 Hz for all the other speakers. Play around with the settings and listen to it an see what you think. Find what sounds best to you.

A lot depends on the quality of the other speakers and your subwoofer so it is hard to say what setting is best. From my experience with other HTIB speakers and subs you will probably get the best results by setting the 684s to "LARGE" set all the other channels to "SMALL" then choose a crossover of 80, 100, or 150 Hz.

Also depending on your room configuration your system may sounds a lot better by turning off and removing the center channel. When you do this the sound from the center will be sent to the two front speakers (684s) which are much better speakers and match eachother.
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post #18702 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
My observations with the CMC2 are that with the port fully opened it tends to sound a bit boxy if sent frequencies below 70Hz. The CM10's however you can comfortably set to probably 50Hz or perhaps lower. I run the CM9's at 55Hz and it seems to work very nicely. Since the CM10's won't have any appreciable output at 45Hz and below I would avoid running them as large and sending that information on to the sub. The information may as well make it to a speaker capable of reproducing the information.

I agree on the CM2. I put the plugs back in with out the middle part to see how that does. I didn't crack it to much last night with a movie I was watching but it seems to have helped allot, this is still running it as full range. I will try setting a crossover limit and see how that does. What I don't remember about the Yamaha 1020 is if I can set each speakers frequency range....I think I can.

Can running the fronts and center in normal / large or in other words not crossed over damage them?
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post #18703 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Smith View Post
You are referring to the frequency response of the speakers, and the crossover frequency of the receiver.

Phase is something completely different, and is caused by two signals of the same frequncy playing back at a slight difference in time. The term Phase shouldn't be used here.

The Pioneer VSX-522k only has a single crossover point that is applied to all speakers that are set to "SMALL". What that means is you will want to choose a crossover freqency that is higher than the worst frequency response of all of your speakers including the Yamaha HTIB speakers. Without knowing the model of the speakers my guess is this is somewhere between 80-150 Hz.

You may get better overall sound and be happier by setting your 684 channels to "LARGE" which will cause them to play back full range and then use 100 Hz for all the other speakers. Play around with the settings and listen to it an see what you think. Find what sounds best to you.

A lot depends on the quality of the other speakers and your subwoofer so it is hard to say what setting is best. From my experience with other HTIB speakers and subs you will probably get the best results by setting the 684s to "LARGE" set all the other channels to "SMALL" then choose a crossover of 80, 100, or 150 Hz.

Also depending on your room configuration your system may sounds a lot better by turning off and removing the center channel. When you do this the sound from the center will be sent to the two front speakers (684s) which are much better speakers and match eachother.
Hey thanks for your awesome response.

A couple things. Currently I have all of the other speakers set to Small and the Front 684s set to Large. I have the setting at 50 Hz right now. I am interested in trying the idea of turning the center channel off. Is there a way I could tell the receiver that this is the case? I can't figure it out. If I simply unplug the center, I get the sound minus center audio. The room is on the smaller side so removing the center might work well. The 684s are obviously MUCH better speakers than the Yamaha HTIB's. Those by the way are this model: Yamaha Center NS-AP2800BLC, Rears NS-AP2800BLS, and sub YST-SW012. I've attached those speaker's specs. Since the rears are 120Hz, should I set the system to 150Hz? Or set it to 100Hz since the center is 95?
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post #18704 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eandytemp View Post
I agree on the CM2. I put the plugs back in with out the middle part to see how that does. I didn't crack it to much last night with a movie I was watching but it seems to have helped allot, this is still running it as full range. I will try setting a crossover limit and see how that does. What I don't remember about the Yamaha 1020 is if I can set each speakers frequency range....I think I can.

Can running the fronts and center in normal / large or in other words not crossed over damage them?
It is possible to damage the speaker if a very strong signal in a range the speaker can't handle makes it to it. I don't run any of the speakers full range because of this as well as the fact that if the speaker can't really reproduce it, why bother sending it?

I experimented with the plugs, but found the midrange on the CMC2 partially plugged to sound noticeably different vs. the CM9's not plugged. It wasn't huge, but increasing the crossover frequency tamed the unwanted boxy-ness when unplugged while allowing the midrange to blend into the CM9's wonderfully. And 70Hz is still darn fine for a center speaker.

I would guess your Yamaha will allow for a crossover setting for each channel. It's been a while since I have seen a receiver/pre amp that didn't offer this.


Last edited by jeahrens; 06-23-2014 at 12:25 PM.
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post #18705 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Currently I have all of the other speakers set to Small and the Front 684s set to Large. I have the setting at 50 Hz right now. I am interested in trying the idea of turning the center channel off. Is there a way I could tell the receiver that this is the case? I can't figure it out. If I simply unplug the center, I get the sound minus center audio. The room is on the smaller side so removing the center might work well. The 684s are obviously MUCH better speakers than the Yamaha HTIB's. Those by the way are this model: Yamaha Center NS-AP2800BLC, Rears NS-AP2800BLS, and sub YST-SW012.
Yes, in the speaker settings you can choose between SMALL, LARGE, and NO. If you select "NO" the receiver will know that the channel is off and route the sound to both the front channels. See Chapter 6 of your manual. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ions070312.pdf

I doubt your HTIB speakers will play down to 50Hz I would set the crossover frequency to something higher.
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post #18706 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Smith View Post
Yes, in the speaker settings you can choose between SMALL, LARGE, and NO. If you select "NO" the receiver will know that the channel is off and route the sound to both the front channels. See Chapter 6 of your manual. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ions070312.pdf

I doubt your HTIB speakers will play down to 50Hz I would set the crossover frequency to something higher.
Oh I see thanks again. I think I will try 150Hz since the rears are 120Hz.

What does setting this lower or higher mean from a sound quality perspective?
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post #18707 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
The 684s are obviously MUCH better speakers than the Yamaha HTIB's. Those by the way are this model: Yamaha Center NS-AP2800BLC, Rears NS-AP2800BLS, and sub YST-SW012. I've attached those speaker's specs. Since the rears are 120Hz, should I set the system to 150Hz? Or set it to 100Hz since the center is 95?
I would set the crossover to 150 Hz, and turn the center channel off on the receiver.

Also if you have the original fronts from the HTIB you can move them to the surrounds they are usually better speakers than the included surrounds. In that case you could set it to 100hz or lower.
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post #18708 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Smith View Post
I would set the crossover to 150 Hz, and turn the center channel off on the receiver.

Also if you have the original fronts from the HTIB you can move them to the surrounds they are usually better speakers than the included surrounds. In that case you could set it to 100hz or lower.
Yes I still have them. I wanted to do that, but there is unfortunately no room where the rear speakers go and the fronts are larger. Do you think the overall sound of the system would be noticeably improved by replacing the current small surrounds with the fronts?
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post #18709 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:32 PM
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Oh I see thanks again. I think I will try 150Hz since the rears are 120Hz.

What does setting this lower or higher mean from a sound quality perspective?
The higher the crossover setting the less bass is sent to the speakers. If you send bass signals to speakers that can't recreate the sound they either just don't play it or they distort and cause unwanted noise. Typically nicer speakers will just not play it, while the cheaper HTIB speaker end up distorting.

Anything below the crossover setting will get routed to the subwoofer.
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post #18710 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:36 PM
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Yes I still have them. I wanted to do that, but there is unfortunately no room where the rear speakers go and the fronts are larger. Do you think the overall sound of the system would be noticeably improved by replacing the current small surrounds with the fronts?
Yes, HTIB systems always have very poor surround speakers.

If they have a similar frequency response of the 684s you will notice a very large improvement by changing the 684s to "SMALL" and setting the crossover setting to 50Hz... otherwise leave the 684s large and set the crossover to match the fronts that you have moved to surrounds.

I just noticed that your posted specifications had the fronts as well. Move them to surrounds. Set the crossover to 80 Hz run the 684s as large.
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post #18711 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Smith View Post
The higher the crossover setting the less bass is sent to the speakers. If you send bass signals to speakers that can't recreate the sound they either just don't play it or they distort and cause unwanted noise. Typically nicer speakers will just not play it, while the cheaper HTIB speaker end up distorting.

Anything below the crossover setting will get routed to the subwoofer.
Ah cool - simple enough. Back to the question regarding the old HTIB Yamaha Front speakers being moved to the surrounds. The surrounds currently hang from L brackets and came with mounts on the back of them. The Fronts do not have these, and I am cautious not to drill into the speaker as I understand how it can change the sound and is generally a bad idea to do this (at least I believe that to be true). My other option would be to put a shelf up and sit the speakers on that. Here is what the surrounds currently look like (attachment). The HTIB speaker specs are attached as well as the 684s. The naming is throwing me off as I am having a hard time comparing apples to apples. (Crossover frequency/Frequency Range/Frequency Response)
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post #18712 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:47 PM
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Ah cool - simple enough. Back to the question regarding the old HTIB Yamaha Front speakers being moved to the surrounds. The surrounds currently hang from L brackets and came with mounts on the back of them. The Fronts do not have these, and I am cautious not to drill into the speaker as I understand how it can change the sound and is generally a bad idea to do this (at least I believe that to be true). My other option would be to put a shelf up and sit the speakers on that. Here is what the surrounds currently look like (attachment). The HTIB speaker specs are attached as well as the 684s. The naming is throwing me off as I am having a hard time comparing apples to apples. (Crossover frequency/Frequency Range in Yamaha vs
You could leave your existing surrounds where they are (or move them in slightly) but change them to the rear channels. Then connect the old fronts as surround to each side of the couch. Then set the crossover to 150Hz. That way you would be running 6.1.

Also just because they publish the frequencies doesn't mean they actually mean what we hope they mean. Notice the B&W publish a +/- 3dB on their frequency response. Yamaha didn't say how they measured the frequency range (i.e. it could be +/-10 dB instead of 3dB). Which is why you really need to just sit play with the settings and choose what sounds best.

Last edited by Daniel Smith; 06-23-2014 at 12:51 PM.
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post #18713 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:52 PM
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You could leave your existing surrounds where they are (or move them in slightly) but change them to the rear channels. Then connect the old fronts as surround to each side of the couch. Then set the crossover to 150Hz. That way you would be running 6.1.
Ah this is a cool idea - never even thought to do this. in a 6.1 or 7.1 setup is it better to have the better speakers as the surrounds (sides) or rears (back)? I believe my Receiver is capable of 7.1 so this is not a bad idea. Also I am curious if you think removing the center and splitting it's channel to the fronts would sound better than having the dedicated center. In this case is Yamaha HTIB Center < Center channel routed to 684 Fronts? I know I will have to play with it and see what i think sounds best, and believe me I will, but since I am at work im just curious what you would think in theory would be better. You seem to know your stuff well.
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post #18714 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 12:57 PM
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Ah this is a cool idea - never even thought to do this. in a 6.1 or 7.1 setup is it better to have the better speakers as the surrounds (sides) or rears (back)? I believe my Receiver is capable of 7.1 so this is not a bad idea.
The quality of speaker for channel from best to worst for home theater IMHO Center > Fronts (L+R) > Surrounds > Rears. The Surrounds and Rears will only play about 5% of the audio, which is why HTIB systems can get a way with using really cheap speakers there. In your case your fronts are much better than your center which is why running without a center channel would likely be a big improvement.

If you are using the system for music than the Front L+R channels are the most critical. Many choose to just listen in to music in 2-channel or 2.1 mode.
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post #18715 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 01:03 PM
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The quality of speaker for channel from best to worst for home theater IMHO Center > Fronts (L+R) > Surrounds > Rears. The Surrounds and Rears will only play about 5% of the audio, which is why HTIB systems can get a way with using really cheap speakers there. In your case your fronts are much better than your center which is why running without a center channel would likely be a big improvement.

If you are using the system for music than the Front L+R channels are the most critical. Many choose to just listen in to music in 2-channel or 2.1 mode.
I almost never listen to music through these in my living room. I would say they are playing TV/Movies 75% of the time and Xbox Gaming 25% of the time. So based on your info and suggestions - here is what I am planning on doing tonight.

I am going to put the HTIB Yamaha speakers on shelves off to the sides of the couch and run them as surrounds. I am going to plug the surrounds into the rear channel input in the receiver to switch them over to that. I am going to try to turn off the center channel, and set crossover to 150Hz (since the rears are 120Hz), but I will also try this setup with the Xover at 80Hz. I plan to test the different configurations using the speed racer scene from Star Wars Episode 6 and the opening boat battle in Master and Commander (blurays). Both of these should give me a good idea of how the bass routing and surround config is doing.
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post #18716 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 01:03 PM
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Ah this is a cool idea - never even thought to do this. in a 6.1 or 7.1 setup is it better to have the better speakers as the surrounds (sides) or rears (back)? I believe my Receiver is capable of 7.1 so this is not a bad idea. Also I am curious if you think removing the center and splitting it's channel to the fronts would sound better than having the dedicated center. In this case is Yamaha HTIB Center < Center channel routed to 684 Fronts? I know I will have to play with it and see what i think sounds best, and believe me I will, but since I am at work im just curious what you would think in theory would be better. You seem to know your stuff well.
Two reasons:

1) The B&W speakers are better.
2) You really want your front 3 channels left center right to match each other as closely as possible. When someone is talking on the screen and they walk from left to right across the screen you will hear there voice change when moving from left to center to right if you use speakers from different brands that do not match each other.

I'd leave the center hooked up. Turn it off on the recievier, watch a movie scene. Turn the center channel back on, watch the same scene. Do it a couple times with different scenes you care about... then choose.
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post #18717 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 01:05 PM
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Two reasons:

1) The B&W speakers are better.
2) You really want your front 3 channels left center right to match each other as closely as possible. When someone is talking on the screen and they walk from left to right across the screen you will hear there voice change when moving from left to center to right if you use speakers from different brands that do not match each other.

I'd leave the center hooked up. Turn it off on the recievier, watch a movie scene. Turn the center channel back on, watch the same scene. Do it a couple times with different scenes you care about... then choose.
Cool - any good bluray movies you know of that do a good job of testing front three channels with one another?
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I almost never listen to music through these in my living room. I would say they are playing TV/Movies 75% of the time and Xbox Gaming 25% of the time. So based on your info and suggestions - here is what I am planning on doing tonight.

I am going to put the HTIB Yamaha speakers on shelves off to the sides of the couch and run them as surrounds. I am going to plug the surrounds into the rear channel input in the receiver to switch them over to that. I am going to try to turn off the center channel, and set crossover to 150Hz (since the rears are 120Hz), but I will also try this setup with the Xover at 80Hz. I plan to test the different configurations using the speed racer scene from Star Wars Episode 6 and the opening boat battle in Master and Commander (blurays). Both of these should give me a good idea of how the bass routing and surround config is doing.
I'd also try to find a scene that has critical dialog that may be difficult to hear when choosing your center configuration....
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Cool - any good bluray movies you know of that do a good job of testing front three channels with one another?
Sorry not off the top of my head.
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post #18720 of 19918 Old 06-23-2014, 01:12 PM
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Sorry not off the top of my head.
Alright well thanks again for all the Info and suggestions. It is much appreciated. I will post back here tonight after I setup the 6.1/7.1 and let you know what I went with based on what sounds best. Based on a quick google search, Gladiator has some good dialog scenes that test the fronts and center well. I just happen to have it on Bluray!
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