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Chise's Avatar Chise 02:41 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantikos View Post
So I heard the 686 and the CM1 and was blown away by the difference in quality. The 6 series just doesn't sound very clean and crisp to me, its got a looseness and doesn't sound very controlled. I am running these off of a Pioneer VSX 80 and m concern is will there be enough sound for occasional high volume listening in a 17X21 'room' with cathedral ceilings that is essentially open to on 3 sides. Also, the CMC sounded less rounded than the HTM61s, I can't afford the CMC2...and cant figure out which way to go....don't even know if the CM1s and HTM61 is timbre matched.

What would you guys recommend for the surrounds? I was thinking of the 686 or some in-walls for the surrounds since I expect having to use 4 channels for music to fill up this huge room.

Also how does B&W CM1 compare to NHT Super 3s? they have a sale going on now.

TIA
The receiver you have I would go with CMC for center 685S2 for towers and M-1 for surrounds, you can mount them.

mantikos's Avatar mantikos 03:39 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachF88 View Post
The HTM61 is not timber-matched to the CM1's. I even think the CM1's shouldn't be matched with the rest of the CM-series. I feel that CM1's are great for 2 channel set up (or 4, but all CM1's). I would consider maybe the CM5 and CMC2 if you can pull it off. I listened to the CM1, CM5, CMC, and HTM61 3 times for over an hour each at BB/Magnolia. I love the CM1's but I don't like them paired with the other CM-series. The CM5 worked well with the CM centers and the floor standing CM's.

As for my set-up (if anyone cares), I ended up getting 2 more XT8's for sides. Hoping to get some FPM2's for the rears. But blew the budget by double......


Let me follow up with this:

I can get the CMC for 399 or the CMC2 for 980
Which one would you get?

I think I am committed to my CM1 for L & R
Still confused about the rear speakers, should I go 6 series, wait to save for CMs or go in-wall B&Ws? I do plan on using the speakers for music using all channels to fill the huge space I have.
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 03:43 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
The receiver you have I would go with CMC for center 685S2 for towers and M-1 for surrounds, you can mount them.


Thank you Chise, would you be able to answer the question above ^
ZachF88's Avatar ZachF88 03:46 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantikos View Post
Let me follow up with this:

I can get the CMC for 399 or the CMC2 for 980
Which one would you get?

I think I am committed to my CM1 for L & R
Still confused about the rear speakers, should I go 6 series, wait to save for CMs or go in-wall B&Ws? I do plan on using the speakers for music using all channels to fill the huge space I have.
I would definitely go with the CMC2 if you have the space. The majority of the dialog in movies is emitted via the center. The CMC2 is 3 way with that FST mid driver, so you'll get better dialog. As for the rears, save up for CM1's. I've never liked the in-wall speakers from b&w. Also look into FPM series. But the CM1's will be better, The CM1's are great little speakers!

PS. I'm running DM600 S3 (3rd generation, now they are on 5th) as rears. I can definitely tell the difference in the upper end (upper mids and highs). The 600-series just sound "muddy" to me. I really hate mixing different B&W speaker lines.
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 03:53 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachF88 View Post
I would definitely go with the CMC2 if you have the space. The majority of the dialog in movies is emitted via the center. The CMC2 is 3 way with that FST mid driver, so you'll get better dialog. As for the rears, save up for CM1's. I've never liked the in-wall speakers from b&w. Also look into FPM series. But the CM1's will be better, The CM1's are great little speakers!

PS. I'm running DM600 S3 (3rd generation, now they are on 5th) as rears. I can definitely tell the difference in the upper end (upper mids and highs). The 600-series just sound "muddy" to me. I really hate mixing different B&W speaker lines.


I agree on the 6 series sounding muddy - especially in the mid-range.
Chise's Avatar Chise 05:00 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantikos View Post
Let me follow up with this:

I can get the CMC for 399 or the CMC2 for 980
Which one would you get?

I think I am committed to my CM1 for L & R
Still confused about the rear speakers, should I go 6 series, wait to save for CMs or go in-wall B&Ws? I do plan on using the speakers for music using all channels to fill the huge space I have.
Now if you was using different receiver like SC-75,77,79 then I would use CMC2 for the center and CM9 towers CM5 for surrounds but you are on budget and finally do not under estimated 600 series S2's.
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 05:12 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
Now if you was using different receiver like SC-75,77,79 then I would use CMC2 for the center and CM9 towers CM5 for surrounds but you are on budget and finally do not under estimated 600 series S2's.


what's wrong with the vsx 80? Not enough power to drive these speakers?
Gecko85's Avatar Gecko85 05:30 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantikos View Post
Let me follow up with this:

I can get the CMC for 399 or the CMC2 for 980
Which one would you get?

I think I am committed to my CM1 for L & R
Still confused about the rear speakers, should I go 6 series, wait to save for CMs or go in-wall B&Ws? I do plan on using the speakers for music using all channels to fill the huge space I have.
I am/was in your same shoes. I demoed (in house) the 683 S2's and CM1's, and decided on the CM1's. They'll be my fronts for a while, until I can spring for some CM5's, then I'll move the CM1's to the rear to replace my Athena's. I'll also eventually replace the Athena center with the CMC2. Which upgrade comes first (CMC2 or CM5) depends on what deals I can find down the road when I've saved up some more money.

For me, the CM1's sounded better than the 683 S2's.
Berland's Avatar Berland 01:51 AM 07-22-2014
If anyone got B&W SCMS speakers stashed away; please contact me. I'm looking for several pairs of B&W SCMS'
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 05:06 AM 07-22-2014
Random question - would this work for wall mounting a CMC2 ?


http://www.peerless-av.com/en-us/pro...products/PS200




I would obviously keep it off the wall and use foam plugs for the ports
Chise's Avatar Chise 12:14 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
I am/was in your same shoes. I demoed (in house) the 683 S2's and CM1's, and decided on the CM1's. They'll be my fronts for a while, until I can spring for some CM5's, then I'll move the CM1's to the rear to replace my Athena's. I'll also eventually replace the Athena center with the CMC2. Which upgrade comes first (CMC2 or CM5) depends on what deals I can find down the road when I've saved up some more money.

For me, the CM1's sounded better than the 683 S2's.
No way my friend I just listen CM1's I compared 685S2 and 683S2 and also I tried SC-71 the Denon X-4000 Pioneer VSX-80 the CM1's sounded weak I would never use them for towers surrounds then yes, and finally the receiver you have, get better receiver before you buy new speakers.
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 01:37 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
No way my friend I just listen CM1's I compared 685S2 and 683S2 and also I tried SC-71 the Denon X-4000 Pioneer VSX-80 the CM1's sounded weak I would never use them for towers surrounds then yes, and finally the receiver you have, get better receiver before you buy new speakers.


The CM1s aren't the most sensitive - agreed, the 6 series is def louder but at the same time the mid range is muddled as many have pointed out.

As far as the VSX 80, I am curious to know why you think its weak.
Gecko85's Avatar Gecko85 02:01 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
No way my friend I just listen CM1's I compared 685S2 and 683S2 and also I tried SC-71 the Denon X-4000 Pioneer VSX-80 the CM1's sounded weak I would never use them for towers surrounds then yes, and finally the receiver you have, get better receiver before you buy new speakers.
I had the 683 S2's and the CM1's in my home, with my system, for over 2 weeks...on loan/demo from my local audio shop. In my home, with my system, the CM1's were clearly better. The highs were less shrill, the mids were less muddy, and there was more than enough bass when used by themselves, and they were even better when using a sub.

Maybe in your home, with your system, the 683's sound better. Just not in mine.

And I don't count any in-store listening, particularly if it's someplace like Best Buy/Magnolia, who have no clue how to set up a listening room. No store is going to match the acoustics of your own space.
Chise's Avatar Chise 05:15 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantikos View Post
The CM1s aren't the most sensitive - agreed, the 6 series is def louder but at the same time the mid range is muddled as many have pointed out.

As far as the VSX 80, I am curious to know why you think its weak.
I guess it will sound muddled using entry level receiver, if you are going to buy BW's 683S2 CM9 or 10 CMC2, HTM61S2 don't use entry level receiver go high end Like Denon 4520ci Pioneer SC-75 thru 79 or seperates, right now its good time to buy they are getting rid old for the new.
Gecko85's Avatar Gecko85 05:18 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
I guess it will sound muddled using entry level receiver, if you are going to buy BW's 683S2 CM9 or 10 CMC2, HTM61S2 don't use entry level receiver go high end Like Denon 4520ci Pioneer SC-75 thru 79 or seperates, right now its good time to buy they are getting rid old for the new.
I'm using the Pioneer SC-1523-K, which is the same as the SC-75, and they sounded muddled to me compared to the CM1.
thrang's Avatar thrang 05:19 PM 07-22-2014
@ jonmiddleton

Great room! I will be trying Bryston as well.

Maybe I missed this, but where's your center?
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 05:22 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
I guess it will sound muddled using entry level receiver, if you are going to buy BW's 683S2 CM9 or 10 CMC2, HTM61S2 don't use entry level receiver go high end Like Denon 4520ci Pioneer SC-75 thru 79 or seperates, right now its good time to buy they are getting rid old for the new.


I heard em on SC 75 and a top of they line ROTEL
still muddled
Chise's Avatar Chise 06:24 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantikos View Post
I heard em on SC 75 and a top of they line ROTEL
still muddled
In your house or at design center.
Chise's Avatar Chise 06:51 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
I had the 683 S2's and the CM1's in my home, with my system, for over 2 weeks...on loan/demo from my local audio shop. In my home, with my system, the CM1's were clearly better. The highs were less shrill, the mids were less muddy, and there was more than enough bass when used by themselves, and they were even better when using a sub.

Maybe in your home, with your system, the 683's sound better. Just not in mine.

And I don't count any in-store listening, particularly if it's someplace like Best Buy/Magnolia, who have no clue how to set up a listening room. No store is going to match the acoustics of your own space.
Well I have no more too say about it good luck with your gear.
mantikos's Avatar mantikos 09:27 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
In your house or at design center.
My friends professionally designed home theater and a specialty high end home theater design company's theater
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar RLBURNSIDE 10:28 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
I had the 683 S2's and the CM1's in my home, with my system, for over 2 weeks...on loan/demo from my local audio shop. In my home, with my system, the CM1's were clearly better. The highs were less shrill, the mids were less muddy, and there was more than enough bass when used by themselves, and they were even better when using a sub.

Maybe in your home, with your system, the 683's sound better. Just not in mine.

And I don't count any in-store listening, particularly if it's someplace like Best Buy/Magnolia, who have no clue how to set up a listening room. No store is going to match the acoustics of your own space.
Yeah, the room it's auditioned in makes a huge difference apparently. I listened to some 683 series 1 and CM9s and I hated the CM9s but loved the 683. I couldn't pull the trigger because I just don't like horizontal centers, especially asymmetric ones. But the new series 2 has a symmetric center so even though I'd prefer my front 3 speakers to be identical for a proper front sound stage as per theater specs, I'm more than happy if I get back into the B&W line with a new speaker series that's affordable and sounds better for classical music at reasonable listening volumes than my old horn speakers. I really had to burst out the volume into the stratosphere with my Klipsch 650s on classical to get intelligible nuance from music and voice (explosions and Miles Davis tracks notwithstanding). I had a much better / cleaner listening experience at lower volume levels with my old DM602 s1s that I used for about ten years but now I can't even get repaired because there are no parts left to repair them with.
Jon Middleton's Avatar Jon Middleton 11:02 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
@ jonmiddleton

Great room! I will be trying Bryston as well.

Maybe I missed this, but where's your center?
You didn't miss anything, I run a phantom center. The speakers are 9' apart, and I don't feel like I need a center. As I said, the room serves multiple purposes, including high end listening room. Also, a center channel would take 80% of movie soundtracks away from two perfectly good 800D2's. That doesn't make sense to me. We watched Les Miserables a bit ago, it was very nice.

The Bryston is awesome. A much better value than offerings from Classe, Ayre, etc. It's no nonsense gear, 20 year warranty, nice, solid build quality and aesthetics. Really hard to beat, IMO. Oppo 103> Bryston 4B SST2> 800D2's, does it get better than that?
tanwn1's Avatar tanwn1 03:09 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
You didn't miss anything, I run a phantom center. The speakers are 9' apart, and I don't feel like I need a center. As I said, the room serves multiple purposes, including high end listening room. Also, a center channel would take 80% of movie soundtracks away from two perfectly good 800D2's. That doesn't make sense to me. We watched Les Miserables a bit ago, it was very nice.

The Bryston is awesome. A much better value than offerings from Classe, Ayre, etc. It's no nonsense gear, 20 year warranty, nice, solid build quality and aesthetics. Really hard to beat, IMO. Oppo 103> Bryston 4B SST2> 800D2's, does it get better than that?
You are half correct, but there are certain movie soundtrack whereby if you switch to phantom channel, there's a cancellation of some frequency and phase issue and you might not hear certain bass. This is with respect to discreet 5.1 /7.1.
jima4a's Avatar jima4a 08:47 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
You didn't miss anything, I run a phantom center. The speakers are 9' apart, and I don't feel like I need a center. As I said, the room serves multiple purposes, including high end listening room. Also, a center channel would take 80% of movie soundtracks away from two perfectly good 800D2's. That doesn't make sense to me. We watched Les Miserables a bit ago, it was very nice.

The Bryston is awesome. A much better value than offerings from Classe, Ayre, etc. It's no nonsense gear, 20 year warranty, nice, solid build quality and aesthetics. Really hard to beat, IMO. Oppo 103> Bryston 4B SST2> 800D2's, does it get better than that?
Are you using the 103 as a pre?
Jon Middleton's Avatar Jon Middleton 11:31 AM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Are you using the 103 as a pre?
Opps! No, the Oppo is just the front end because I have the TT. The satellite is connected to the HDMI In-Back. Both the Oppo and TT go into my old Rotel RSP 1066, which predates HDMI. Analog out of the Oppo to the multi inputs on the Rotel, the TT goes into a Project phono preamp then to the Rotel. Essentially, the Rotel is just a switching device with gain. The Oppo does all A/V processing. HDMI Out on the Oppo goes directly to the PJ. I think this is a pretty clean approach, and utilizes the processing excellence of the Oppo.
RLBURNSIDE's Avatar RLBURNSIDE 10:42 PM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
Opps! No, the Oppo is just the front end because I have the TT. The satellite is connected to the HDMI In-Back. Both the Oppo and TT go into my old Rotel RSP 1066, which predates HDMI. Analog out of the Oppo to the multi inputs on the Rotel, the TT goes into a Project phono preamp then to the Rotel. Essentially, the Rotel is just a switching device with gain. The Oppo does all A/V processing. HDMI Out on the Oppo goes directly to the PJ. I think this is a pretty clean approach, and utilizes the processing excellence of the Oppo.
Oppo's pre-outs seem like such a good bargain considering it's basically a high end home theater DAC minus an amp section. Any AVR with analog ins can then do what it's supposed to do and nothing else, plus you can mix and match with amps that way. I'm in a dilemma myself, I had to decide whether to pay $200 to get my old Marantz SR5004 repaired (busted HDMI board), but then be stuck with HDMI 1.3, or just let it stay dead and use my HTPC analog outs until such time as OPPO comes out with an HDMI 2.0 player with 4K passthrough (or even Darby). I'd much rather save that $200 and upgrade my electronics, with the minor hassle of using my emotiva directly from the analog outs of my HTPC for the time being. If I can score an OPPO with HDMI 2 then I can start looking at cheap options to power my rear speakers.

I wanted to get a new Atmos receiver but any of those with pre-outs are going to be ludicrously expensive for at least a year or so. It seems like most options out there only have at most 2.1 or 2.2 channels of pre-outs (fronts and 1/2 subs), and to get the full 7.1 you need to pay at least 1K if not 2 to get it. Totally absurd, considering I paid 300 for my Marantz refurb that has full pre outs and had all the codecs I could possibly need. I just find analog outs from my motherboard decent enough, am I crazy? Or has onboard sound gotten quite good.
gene9p's Avatar gene9p 07:59 AM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
You didn't miss anything, I run a phantom center. The speakers are 9' apart, and I don't feel like I need a center. As I said, the room serves multiple purposes, including high end listening room. Also, a center channel would take 80% of movie soundtracks away from two perfectly good 800D2's. That doesn't make sense to me. We watched Les Miserables a bit ago, it was very nice.

The Bryston is awesome. A much better value than offerings from Classe, Ayre, etc. It's no nonsense gear, 20 year warranty, nice, solid build quality and aesthetics. Really hard to beat, IMO. Oppo 103> Bryston 4B SST2> 800D2's, does it get better than that?
the dog has a great spot..........

nice pictures of Bryce and Arches
Jon Middleton's Avatar Jon Middleton 09:17 AM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post
the dog has a great spot..........

nice pictures of Bryce and Arches

Thanks. I took those with my Zone VI 4x5, along with the detail of Little Cottonwood creek over the mantle. Tack sharp and grainless throughout. The sunrise at Bryce has very nice lighting, it's far better in person.


Heidi's spoiled.
mlupia92's Avatar mlupia92 12:57 PM 07-24-2014
Hello everyone, I'm new to this thread and also a new B&W owner. Just bought my first pair about 3 weeks ago. I've gotta say its nice to own a pair after demoing them for years.

I'm running the following in my setup:

Receiver- Pioneer SC-63 Elite

Fronts- B&W 685 S2

Center- B&W HTM62 S2

Rears- Klipsch S-20's

Sub- Energy Power 12

Using all Audioquest wiring with Sanus steel series speaker stands. Definitely need to upgrade my rears and sub at some point but being on a budget limits me a little right now.
Chise's Avatar Chise 01:42 PM 07-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlupia92 View Post
Hello everyone, I'm new to this thread and also a new B&W owner. Just bought my first pair about 3 weeks ago. I've gotta say its nice to own a pair after demoing them for years.

I'm running the following in my setup:

Receiver- Pioneer SC-63 Elite

Fronts- B&W 685 S2

Center- B&W HTM62 S2

Rears- Klipsch S-20's

Sub- Energy Power 12

Using all Audioquest wiring with Sanus steel series speaker stands. Definitely need to upgrade my rears and sub at some point but being on a budget limits me a little right now.
Well you got to start somewhere, and which you have its better than nothing,
Tags: B W , Bowers And Wilkings 685 Speakers , carver cm-1090
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