B&W Owner's Thread - Page 632 - AVS Forum
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post #18931 of 20062 Old 07-30-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
If you lower your listening level to only 85db, then you only need 6 watts!
And save my ears as well I never listen higher than 90db anyway!
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post #18932 of 20062 Old 07-30-2014, 03:18 PM
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So I am glad that I have three CA-M600 with the 800D2 I can get 105db at 3M. So with this in mind NO AV receiver should be THX certified!!
What if you had speakers that were 96db instead of 90db in sensitivity? Alot of the speakers geared towards HT are much more sensitive than the 802s.
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post #18933 of 20062 Old 07-30-2014, 04:20 PM
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What if you had speakers that were 96db instead of 90db in sensitivity? Alot of the speakers geared towards HT are much more sensitive than the 802s.
Yes like which ones
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post #18934 of 20062 Old 07-30-2014, 05:29 PM
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So no answers for my question?

Crossover on a speaker what does that do for the sensitivity rating?

Thank you
Bill
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post #18935 of 20062 Old 08-01-2014, 10:04 AM
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So no answers for my question?

Crossover on a speaker what does that do for the sensitivity rating?

Thank you
Bill
To answer your question, we really would need to know what crossover you are talking about.

If you are referring to a crossover that is external to the speakers themselves, that would have no effect. This is because the sensitivity rating is based on the power actually reaching the speakers after being processed by the crossover, or whatever. The sensitivity rating is based on the power actually reaching the speaker.

If, on the other hand, you are referring to the insertion loss of the internal passive crossover network inside the speaker cabinets (which should be quite small), that would have already been factored into the sensitivity rating.
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post #18936 of 20062 Old 08-01-2014, 10:08 AM
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Been running my B & W LR speakers, 802 Series 2, for some time now, as part of a 5.1 system, without a center speaker. Am unable or unwilling to get a definitive answer from the local Vancouver B & W dealership as to a compatible center. It sounds great as a phantom center but would be nice to have one.
There is local Craig's Lister selling a CC3. Would that be a suitable center?
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post #18937 of 20062 Old 08-01-2014, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by insync44 View Post
Been running my B & W LR speakers, 802 Series 2, for some time now, as part of a 5.1 system, without a center speaker. Am unable or unwilling to get a definitive answer from the local Vancouver B & W dealership as to a compatible center. It sounds great as a phantom center but would be nice to have one.
There is local Craig's Lister selling a CC3. Would that be a suitable center?
HTM2D or whatever the replacement is. Not crazy large, same tweeter etc.
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post #18938 of 20062 Old 08-01-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by insync44 View Post
Been running my B & W LR speakers, 802 Series 2, for some time now, as part of a 5.1 system, without a center speaker. Am unable or unwilling to get a definitive answer from the local Vancouver B & W dealership as to a compatible center. It sounds great as a phantom center but would be nice to have one.
There is local Craig's Lister selling a CC3. Would that be a suitable center?

Best match should be the Matrix HTM.

If you couldn't find that go with that I would try and find something close to it driver material wise. Your 802s use an aluminum tweeter with a kevlar mid-range. The CC3 center uses a soft dome tweeter with a fiber mid-range, very different.

I would ask the dealer to demo the HTM62 Center. This center uses kevlar midwoofers and aluminum tweeters, same materials as your 802s. I predict this will be your best option for a new model center, won't be perfect, but maybe good enough.
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post #18939 of 20062 Old 08-01-2014, 05:39 PM
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Thanks guys
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post #18940 of 20062 Old 08-01-2014, 08:46 PM
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Thanks guys
Keep us posted on the results
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post #18941 of 20062 Old 08-04-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
Best match should be the Matrix HTM.

If you couldn't find that go with that I would try and find something close to it driver material wise. Your 802s use an aluminum tweeter with a kevlar mid-range. The CC3 center uses a soft dome tweeter with a fiber mid-range, very different.

I would ask the dealer to demo the HTM62 Center. This center uses kevlar midwoofers and aluminum tweeters, same materials as your 802s. I predict this will be your best option for a new model center, won't be perfect, but maybe good enough.
Darn hard to find in Vancouver. Is this the model you are talking about?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-and-wilkins-5-2-way-center-channel-speaker-black-ash-vinyl/1290282.p?id=1218248252661&skuId=1290282&st=catego ryid$abcat0205002&cp=1&lp=4
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post #18942 of 20062 Old 08-04-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by insync44 View Post
Darn hard to find in Vancouver. Is this the model you are talking about?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/bowers-and-wilkins-5-2-way-center-channel-speaker-black-ash-vinyl/1290282.p?id=1218248252661&skuId=1290282&st=catego ryid$abcat0205002&cp=1&lp=4
Yes, that is the one I was referencing. Check Bestbuy's return policy, it might not cost you anything trying it with your system for a week and return it if you don't like it.
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post #18943 of 20062 Old 08-04-2014, 10:06 AM
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Thanks. Its a 45min drive from my home in Vancouver, BC. Will go tomorrow.
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post #18944 of 20062 Old 08-04-2014, 12:29 PM
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I am looking for good LCR in wall. Any good options?
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post #18945 of 20062 Old 08-04-2014, 04:20 PM
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I am looking for good LCR in wall. Any good options?
I've seen the CWM 7.3 and 7.4 used for this, they both have the expandable backer boxes.
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post #18946 of 20062 Old 08-04-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by insync44 View Post
Been running my B & W LR speakers, 802 Series 2, for some time now, as part of a 5.1 system, without a center speaker. Am unable or unwilling to get a definitive answer from the local Vancouver B & W dealership as to a compatible center. It sounds great as a phantom center but would be nice to have one.
There is local Craig's Lister selling a CC3. Would that be a suitable center?
Get an other 802D2 I have three 800D@ and am happy as a clam
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post #18947 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 06:27 AM
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Get an other 802D2 I have three 800D@ and am happy as a clam
I believe he has the 802 Matrix Series 2. But if I was mistaken I rescind my recommendation of the HTM62 and he should go with the HTM2D, or even better another 802D2. Having three 802/800s in the front stage is quite an experience if you can afford the space and placement.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-05-2014 at 06:31 AM.
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post #18948 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 07:24 AM
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Hello everyone,

I have a pair of 802D1 that I just sold as I never really liked them in my small room due to the bass being a bit tubby. Mind you I also have a pair of B&O BeoLab 5s in right now and with their *fantastic* auto-equalization they exhibit nary a HINT of this bass problem placed in the same spot even with their massive 15 inch bass lumps. The MC601 amps I added later solved a lot of this, but not completely. But I wasn't completely disappointed with the B&W sound and was convinced that the perfect solution would be the 803D2, in addition to being much lighter (I hate anything that exerts its presence by being absurdly heavy as I tend to move on occasion and it's a pain). I considered Cremona SEs, McIntosh XR100s, Dynaudio Confidence C2s, Wilson Sophia 3 and was even recommended Salk Soundscape 8s. But when it came to the overall mix of KNOWN sound, resale value, build quality and beauty, not to mention how hard it is to find some of those others to even audition, the 803 just won out.

Just as Murphy's law would dictate, I tracked down a pair of 803D2 but would have had to go pick them up and the seller has a deposit on them. I say Murphy's law because then of course I came across *802D2s* just a couple of days ago at a price I just couldn't pass up from a closing audio dealer in Louisiana, only a little more than what I sold the 802D1s for in my favorite gloss finish and complete with all their original 1 owner materials with delivery. From everything I've read, the major improvement to the D2 vs D1 was in-fact the amount of attention given to the bass performance and all new bass drivers. Indeed, never have I had a listening session with D2s at a retail environment that has given me any impression of bass issues, but those rooms are much larger than mine as well.

Ok, great. My only concern now is that looking at the timeline of 802N to 802D1, and then 802D1 to 802D2, it would seem we are close to a product update for this speaker. If not an entirely new design (remember the Matrix went from S1 to S3 before the Ns were introduced). So I don't want to be stuck with a boat anchor. Does anyone know of any planned updates for the 802 line coming soon that should cause me to reconsider my D2 purchase or move them on to another enthusiast? I prefer being closer to the front of a new product to have time to enjoy it before upgrade-itis sets in rather than the guy with the "old" thing that I then have to try and sell at a drastically reduced cost. I don't think an 802D3 would be much of a deterrent, but an all new design is something else.

EDIT: I guess my timing is a little off now that I think about it. D1s were announced in 2004 and D2s were announced in 2010, which is actually a span of 6 years and following that logic the next "announcement" would occur in 2016. Still, B&W rumors are kind of thin on the ground and it would be interesting to know what, if anything has surfaced.

Last edited by Playdrv4me; 08-05-2014 at 07:47 AM.
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post #18949 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 07:47 AM
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Your timeline seems close. Every 6 years an 800 series product update. That said nothing has been released or shown at a show. I would say at the absolute soonest you would be looking at 6 months before a revision. But I would predict later than that.

Now pure speculation, for fun: I wouldn't expect a major product revision until the Nautilus is updated. This is their flagship speaker and the technology is trickled down into the 800 series. Until they make a design breakthrough with that speaker I wouldn't expect a major design change in the 800 series. Now I know that it is a completely different speaker with different drivers.

Until then I wouldn't expect changes to the cabinet. The most likely "upgrade" would be a driver change, most likely the mid-range since the woofers are new and the diamond tweeter isn't going anywhere. The crossover is already top notch using Mundorf caps throughout the series.

My saying is life is too short, buy what you want. It doesn't seem that you mind upgrading speakers. Let the future you worry about new models.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-05-2014 at 07:52 AM.
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post #18950 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 07:52 AM
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Your timeline seems close. Every 6 years an 800 series product update. That said nothing has been released or shown at a show. I would say at the absolute soonest you would be looking at 6 months before a revision. But I would predict later than that.

Now pure speculation, for fun: I wouldn't expect a major product revision until the Nautilus is updated. This is their flagship speaker and the technology is trickled down into the 800 series. Until they make a design breakthrough with that speaker I wouldn't expect a major design change in the 800 series. Until then I wouldn't expect changes to the cabinet. The most likely "upgrade" would be a driver change, most likely the mid-range since the woofers are new and the diamond tweeter isn't going anywhere. The crossover is already top notch using Mundorf caps throughout the series.

My saying is life is too short, buy what you want. It doesn't seem that you mind upgrading speakers. Let the future you worry about new models.
Hah. It seems I edited JUST as you were posting, and we basically came to the same conclusion on the timeline. Eager to hear them.
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post #18951 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 08:06 AM
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I also wanted to share info for anyone thinking about buying a new set of B&Ws. If you have a Magnolia Best Buy in your area (Yea I know they suck, blah blah blah) they are offering over 10% back in rewards (Gift Card) using a Best Buy credit card, if pay it off in one billing cycle. My Magnolia BB was willing to almost match the price of my local Hifi stores quoted price on a set of 802s then I got the rewards points. I saved over $3000 on a set of new 802s with free delivery.

I'm sure a lot of you guys have great negotiating skills and rapport with your local dealer, but if you don't there is that option.

The Magnolia Sales rep inside of my local Best Buy was much more knowledgeable about the product than my local HiFi store. Not that that mattered much since I have been around this stuff for a while.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-05-2014 at 08:13 AM.
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post #18952 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 08:15 AM
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I also wanted to share info for anyone thinking about buying a new set of B&Ws. If you have a Magnolia Best Buy in your area (Yea I know they suck, blah blah blah) they are offering over 10% back in rewards (Gift Card) using a Best Buy credit card, if pay it off in one billing cycle. My Magnolia BB was willing to almost match the price of my local Hifi stores quoted price on a set of 802s then I got the rewards points. I saved over $3000 on a set of new 802s with free delivery.

The Magnolia Sales rep inside of my local Best Buy was much more knowledgeable about the product than my local HiFi store. Not that that mattered much since I have been around this stuff for a while.
I don't think the Magnolia *Design Centers* in particular are all that bad. I had a similar experience with someone super knowledgable at the Houston Woodlands location when I visited Houston a while back. I similarly agree that it was mostly re-iterating a lot of what I already knew, but still good to hear. It's too bad there's no way to look at the open box inventory for Magnola DCs the way there is for the standard stores. I bet there are frequently AWESOME deals on open box HiFi products including the high end B&W speakers.
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post #18953 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 08:19 AM
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I don't think the Magnolia *Design Centers* in particular are all that bad. I had a similar experience with someone super knowledgable at the Houston Woodlands location when I visited Houston a while back. I similarly agree that it was mostly re-iterating a lot of what I already knew, but still good to hear. It's too bad there's no way to look at the open box inventory for Magnola DCs the way there is for the standard stores. I bet there are frequently AWESOME deals on open box HiFi products including the high end B&W speakers.
Houston Woodlands? Ha that is where I bought mine, live down the street. Where you from?

The nice thing about my Magnolia is that you could hear the 800 series with either a full Mcintosh or Rotel Setup in a decently setup room.

Kind of gives you a taste of how good moderately priced electronics are these days. I thought the $20k Mcintosh setup with Monoblocks was only slightly better than the $5k Rotel setup.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-05-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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post #18954 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 08:38 AM
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Houston Woodlands? Ha that is where I bought mine, live down the street. Where you from?

The nice thing about my Magnolia is that you could hear the 800 series with either a full Mcintosh or Rotel Setup in a decently setup room.
I'm in MO currently, but I'll be back in TX likely by the end of the year. That is one of the places where I got to hear the 802D2s and do recall the set up being very nice. Pretty sure I heard the 802s on the 601 amps I have now.

Still, I remember talking to the guy (a taller bald guy if I recall right) and after auditioning a few different speakers thinking that the 803D2 is the sweet spot. I had it all planned out to have 803D2s and a pair of JL Audio Fathom F110s as I've heard *spectacular* results in reviews of those subs from both reviewers who use the 800/802 as their reference speaker, and other forum posts from users who see even an 805D2/Fathom marriage as the perfect Diamond series arrangement. I don't think the enormous two sub Fathoms are remotely necessary, and the 110 is probably just right for me.

I was watching the James Brown movie last night and thinking that the way the bass notes sounded when they played music in that movie, and in that theater (a smaller sized standard AMC auditorium), was *exactly* how my ideal system would sound. There was a lot of bass, but it was incredibly well controlled and "off in its own space" where you could pinpoint every instrument and it didn't muddle the presentation. Of course, this is a full surround sound track and I only do 2 channel at home, so that may have played a part. But I have a feeling that any 800 Series with a pair of the Fathoms would come very close to what I heard in there. May as well wait til I'm somewhere with more space to do that, though. The 15 inch woofers in the BL5s (which are a true 4 way design) do a great job here as it is, though.
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post #18955 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 08:47 AM
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I have a JL F113 and couldn't be happier with it. Although JL is pretty pricey they are worth it to me. The built in EQ is nice, the finish matches my 802s and it has enough muscle to help out with action movies and deep kick drums. One thing I would recommend is putting in a dedicated 20A circuit for the subs, I apparently killed my first F113 having it plugged into a 15A circuit that was used with the rest of my equipment.

I have been wrestling with idea of exchanging the 802s with the 800s and selling my F113 but I feel like I am getting a little crazy with all this upgrading and am going to stick with this setup for now until I move into a new house next year with a dedicated 2 channel room. My GF thinks I am crazy with all my buying and selling over the past couple months.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-05-2014 at 08:54 AM.
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post #18956 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 08:57 AM
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I have been wrestling with idea of exchanging the 802s with the 800s and selling my F113
Oh no way. I would *add* a second F113 (I never considered having just the one) before I'd consider going without and 800s alone. And the only reason I say that is because in reviews where the Fathom was tested (and usually it's the 113), some of those reviewers *had* 800s and STILL felt that the 113 added a complete extension and ease to the bass that wasn't present before. It's a PITA setting the crossover properly apparently is the only negative I remember from whatever review that was, but otherwise I haven't seen or read a single solitary negative comment about that sub series anywhere, even though I've never heard it. And I'm NOT your usual proponent of subs. Plus there's all the added weight of the 800s. Just not a setup I am interested in unless I end up in a huge room where those benefits can be completely realized, especially considering part of the D2 benefit is the electronics on the lower level speakers being brought in line with the 800 anyway.
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post #18957 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 09:05 AM
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I have been considering another F113 too, kinda. I check on Audiogon every so often hoping for a used one to come up a good price locally. I definitely don't want to pay full price.
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post #18958 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 09:11 AM
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Well, it would seem that what I thought was a fantastic idea is slowly becoming an issue in aggravation. My initial plan of getting the CM5 and CMC2 to use as fronts temporarily, until the end of the year when I would get a pair of CM9 or CM10's, and move the CM5 to the back for surround is not working out as intended. The CM5's sound quite nice as fronts for the time being. It would seem that the CMC2 center channel is on back order for the foreseeable future. According to my rep, B&W is no longer making this speaker. I can only assume that there will be a refresh to the CMC2 or more likely the CM series.

Just wondering if anyone has some inside information on any updates to the CM line, or a new line that will take the place of the CM line. I don't mind having slightly mismatched surrounds from the front, but I want to make sure that my front 3 are all composed of the same drivers.

Thanks for any input on new releases or updates.

-Morfious
Panasonic 65ZT60 Plasma
Emotiva XMC-1
Emotiva XPA-5
B&W (CMC2 S2, CM5)
SVS SB13 Ultra Sub (Planned Upgrade)
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post #18959 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 09:16 AM
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I see the CMC2 pop up on eBay or audiogon from time to time. Just need to try various queries (especially on audiogon...it doesn't allow the & symbol in searches, so can't search for "B&W"...)

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
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post #18960 of 20062 Old 08-05-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morfious View Post
Well, it would seem that what I thought was a fantastic idea is slowly becoming an issue in aggravation. My initial plan of getting the CM5 and CMC2 to use as fronts temporarily, until the end of the year when I would get a pair of CM9 or CM10's, and move the CM5 to the back for surround is not working out as intended. The CM5's sound quite nice as fronts for the time being. It would seem that the CMC2 center channel is on back order for the foreseeable future. According to my rep, B&W is no longer making this speaker. I can only assume that there will be a refresh to the CMC2 or more likely the CM series.

Just wondering if anyone has some inside information on any updates to the CM line, or a new line that will take the place of the CM line. I don't mind having slightly mismatched surrounds from the front, but I want to make sure that my front 3 are all composed of the same drivers.

Thanks for any input on new releases or updates.
On B&W's website, there is reference to the way the CM Centre 2 is "similar to the CM9". So my guess is that an updated CM Centre will be introduced that puts it in line with the CM10, perhaps with an external tweeter enclosure similar to the 10.
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