B&W Owner's Thread - Page 633 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18961 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
On B&W's website, there is reference to the way the CM Centre 2 is "similar to the CM9". So my guess is that an updated CM Centre will be introduced that puts it in line with the CM10, perhaps with an external tweeter enclosure similar to the 10.
That would be a very odd play. It makes sense for their to be a "CMC3" and "CM6" made to match the CM10. But to replace the CMC2 completely with this design would leave you with a center that would no longer match as well with the CM9/CM5. They could be obsoleting the CM9/CM5, but considering the price differential between the CM9 and CM10 it wouldn't make sense marketing wise to have there be that large of a gap between the 600 series and the CM series. And I don't see them dropping the price on the CM10 into the CM9 bracket. Maybe we'll see a CMC3 that matches the CM10 and a CM9.5 and CM5.5 with the external tweeter in the same price bracket to fill out the new lineup.

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post #18962 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 10:29 AM
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B&W 803 Very Good Sound ~~~~
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post #18963 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
That would be a very odd play. It makes sense for their to be a "CMC3" and "CM6" made to match the CM10. But to replace the CMC2 completely with this design would leave you with a center that would no longer match as well with the CM9/CM5. They could be obsoleting the CM9/CM5, but considering the price differential between the CM9 and CM10 it wouldn't make sense marketing wise to have there be that large of a gap between the 600 series and the CM series. And I don't see them dropping the price on the CM10 into the CM9 bracket. Maybe we'll see a CMC3 that matches the CM10 and a CM9.5 and CM5.5 with the external tweeter in the same price bracket to fill out the new lineup.
I guess I can see what you're saying in a way but I guess to me, it just didn't seem like it would appear out of place at all to update the CMC to an external tweeter design. Even if the CM9 is to continue. As in, I didn't think the tweeter being outside would suddenly make it clash with the CM9s in any way because it's a center speaker. I viewed just as a logical evolution of the CMC. No different than matching the CMC2 with the CM10s going in reverse.

This is all of course coming from the assumption that the CMC2 is really even truly discontinued.
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post #18964 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by harts View Post





B&W 803 Very Good Sound ~~~~
Man, I guess I am late to the Fathom game. Now that I know what it is I see it ALL THE TIME in people's gear pics!
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post #18965 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 10:49 AM
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That is a very nice setup. Love the floors and the room treatments.

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Man, I guess I am late to the Fathom game. Now that I know what it is I see it ALL THE TIME in people's gear pics!
That Fathom game is strong around here

I have a new component rack coming in later this month I will post a pic of my setup after I setup everything.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-05-2014 at 10:56 AM.
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post #18966 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post
I guess I can see what you're saying in a way but I guess to me, it just didn't seem like it would appear out of place at all to update the CMC to an external tweeter design. Even if the CM9 is to continue. As in, I didn't think the tweeter being outside would suddenly make it clash with the CM9s in any way because it's a center speaker. I viewed just as a logical evolution of the CMC. No different than matching the CMC2 with the CM10s going in reverse.

This is all of course coming from the assumption that the CMC2 is really even truly discontinued.
Actually having spent some time with the CM10's I find they are not the best tonal match for the CMC2 and feel that if multichannel timbre matching is a priority that the CM9's are a much better fit. So if a detached tweeter made a replacement center match the tone of the CM10, I feel it would indeed clash with the CM9/5. However people hear differently and some find the CMC2 to match fine with the CM10's. To me the CM10 is a bit brighter and the soundstage more open vs. the other CM's.

So to me it would make the most sense to introduce a matching center to the CM10's and if the CM9/5 are continuing keep a center that matches them. Best case we'd get an even better center for the CM9/5 in addition to whatever they make to match the CM10.

B&W if you are listening. Make a center that is essentially a CM9 on it's side and you will get my money. I love the CMC2, but a midrange driver that matches the CM9 identically along with bigger more capable woofers would be icing on the cake.


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post #18967 of 21052 Old 08-05-2014, 01:59 PM
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B&W 803 Very Good Sound ~~~~
does having the speakers so close to the listening position (far forward from the screen) detract from watching on the screen?

Thank you
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post #18968 of 21052 Old 08-06-2014, 05:14 AM
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I suspect that the new 600 series is so good that it is eating into the CM line sales. I also suspect that the CM line will be moving up the scale and going to start occupying a higher price point to narrow the gap to the 800 series, hence releasing the CM 10. Then again B&W has enough muscle and distribution channels to do whatever they want.
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post #18969 of 21052 Old 08-06-2014, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Actually having spent some time with the CM10's I find they are not the best tonal match for the CMC2 and feel that if multichannel timbre matching is a priority that the CM9's are a much better fit. So if a detached tweeter made a replacement center match the tone of the CM10, I feel it would indeed clash with the CM9/5. However people hear differently and some find the CMC2 to match fine with the CM10's. To me the CM10 is a bit brighter and the soundstage more open vs. the other CM's.

So to me it would make the most sense to introduce a matching center to the CM10's and if the CM9/5 are continuing keep a center that matches them. Best case we'd get an even better center for the CM9/5 in addition to whatever they make to match the CM10.

B&W if you are listening. Make a center that is essentially a CM9 on it's side and you will get my money. I love the CMC2, but a midrange driver that matches the CM9 identically along with bigger more capable woofers would be icing on the cake.
That's my hope. I have been looking, listening and waiting for years. I can wait a few more months to see what's cooking down the line. I hope it's not just a problem sourcing materials causing the delay and backorder.

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post #18970 of 21052 Old 08-06-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
I suspect that the new 600 series is so good that it is eating into the CM line sales. I also suspect that the CM line will be moving up the scale and going to start occupying a higher price point to narrow the gap to the 800 series, hence releasing the CM 10. Then again B&W has enough muscle and distribution channels to do whatever they want.
I haven't had a chance to demo the new 600 S2's so I don't know how close they've gotten. I suspect pretty close. But I don't see B&W leaving a gap from $1500 to $5000 for their tower speakers. That would be crazy. I could see a replacements for the CM8/9/5 with the same or very similar woofer configurations and the same tweeter as the CM10. Then a replacement center with that tweeter would match the entire lineup.

It will be interesting to see what they do for sure. A CM9 with that tweeter would make selling the CM10 fairly hard in my opinion. I couldn't tell any difference in the midrange and the low end extension isn't something a setup with a decent sub would notice. The high end is really where the CM10 differentiates itself to me. Slightly more sparkle and openness. Maybe a smidge more detail. Although I could see those who put an emphasis on 2ch with no sub that would see the CM10 as worth the premium over a CM9 with the same tweeter.


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post #18971 of 21052 Old 08-06-2014, 10:10 AM
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Hi everyone. I am putting an in an AT screen and would welcome your thoughts on the ct 700 and 800 speakers
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post #18972 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 05:07 AM
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Just wondering if anyone uses 684's as surrounds and what was their front stage? And how did they sound?
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post #18973 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 09:54 AM
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Just wondering if anyone uses 684's as surrounds and what was their front stage? And how did they sound?
They will make fine surrounds. Unless you do multichannel music your surrounds dont need to perfectly match up with your front three. A lot of people buy a set they can afford now then later upgrade their front three and move the previous speakers to surrounds.
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post #18974 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 10:03 AM
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So I told myself wth last night and decided to exchange my 802s for 800s, they are being delivered this morning. And the JL F113 will stay but hopefully it wont need a brother

Im tired of upgrading speakers every 2 years so hopefully these stay for a while. I will report back with a small memory comparison morning for fun.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-07-2014 at 11:31 AM.
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post #18975 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
So I told myself wth last night and decided to exchange my 802s for 800s, they are being delivered this morning. And the JL F113 will stay but hopefully it wont need a brother

Im tired of upgrading speakers every 2 years so hopefully these stay for a while. I will report back with a small memory comparison morning for fun.
I know the feeling, I went from :
700 series (5.1) in 2006 to
803D, HTM2, ASW825 (3.1) in 2009 to
802Di, 2 JL F113 (2.2) in 2011 to
800Di, 2 DB1 (2.2) in 2013

and I am done.
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post #18976 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
I haven't had a chance to demo the new 600 S2's so I don't know how close they've gotten. I suspect pretty close. But I don't see B&W leaving a gap from $1500 to $5000 for their tower speakers. That would be crazy. I could see a replacements for the CM8/9/5 with the same or very similar woofer configurations and the same tweeter as the CM10. Then a replacement center with that tweeter would match the entire lineup.

It will be interesting to see what they do for sure. A CM9 with that tweeter would make selling the CM10 fairly hard in my opinion. I couldn't tell any difference in the midrange and the low end extension isn't something a setup with a decent sub would notice. The high end is really where the CM10 differentiates itself to me. Slightly more sparkle and openness. Maybe a smidge more detail. Although I could see those who put an emphasis on 2ch with no sub that would see the CM10 as worth the premium over a CM9 with the same tweeter.
When I was in my search to upgrade from my 685s1 I demoed the 685s2 and CM5's back to back and there was still a considerable gap in clarity and just overall sound quality. The 685s2 sounded muffled and bloated in comparison to me. I was actually surprised given how many opinions I had read that said it was much closer. Of course, this is why we go listen because YMMV.

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post #18977 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepers1 View Post
I know the feeling, I went from :700 series (5.1) in 2006 to 803D, HTM2, ASW825 (3.1) in 2009 to 802Di, 2 JL F113 (2.2) in 2011 to 800Di, 2 DB1 (2.2) in 2013 and I am done.
Same here went from 802N to 802D to 802D2 to 800D2 I am done!!

I heard B&W will upgrade again in a couple of years the 800 series.

That's it for me
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post #18978 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 03:37 PM
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Same here went from 802N to 802D to 802D2 to 800D2 I am done!!

I heard B&W will upgrade again in a couple of years the 800 series.

That's it for me
Yea, my dealer told me today the 800 update is likely in 2015/2016.
I'm going to probably upgrade every other update.
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post #18979 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
So I told myself wth last night and decided to exchange my 802s for 800s, they are being delivered this morning. And the JL F113 will stay but hopefully it wont need a brother

Im tired of upgrading speakers every 2 years so hopefully these stay for a while. I will report back with a small memory comparison morning for fun.

Very nice, congrats. Hopefully you'll notice a difference between the two. Some do, some don't. I certainly do, especially in the lower mid range, especially with vocals, these are the frequencies being handled by the bass drivers, not the actual midrange. This is where the 800 outshines the 802's. Then of course there is more overall bass authority. Depending on what you listen to you may want to keep the sub in order to sustain very loud and authoritative bass down really, really deep.


I initially entered the 800 series by first getting the HTM2D2. Then a few months later added a pair of 802D2. After that came a pair of 800D2's which gives me a great 5.1, not quite as good as wse's front end but I have a tv that can't be wall mounted thus the HTM2D2 was the only choice. Curse you B&W ONE MORE TIME for discontinuing the HTM1D


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post #18980 of 21052 Old 08-07-2014, 08:01 PM
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Yea, my dealer told me today the 800 update is likely in 2015/2016.
I'm going to probably upgrade every other update.
So every five or six years out? I think for me it will be in ten years As we all age our hearing
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post #18981 of 21052 Old 08-08-2014, 04:40 AM
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So every five or six years out? I think for me it will be in ten years As we all age our hearing
Nooo, i was thinking every other update. So that might be 8 years away.
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post #18982 of 21052 Old 08-08-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kamouflage View Post
When I was in my search to upgrade from my 685s1 I demoed the 685s2 and CM5's back to back and there was still a considerable gap in clarity and just overall sound quality. The 685s2 sounded muffled and bloated in comparison to me. I was actually surprised given how many opinions I had read that said it was much closer. Of course, this is why we go listen because YMMV.
I don't think you are alone in that observation, I went in to buy the 685, ended up with the CM instead...6 series is muddled.
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post #18983 of 21052 Old 08-08-2014, 11:11 AM
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Thinking about selling my 802n speakers that are in my rear channel position.
I was thinking about just going to 804 for rear and effect speakers. Save room and all.

I do not have the boxes or grills. They are in great shape though. What would be a good price to ask for?

Thanks
Bill
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post #18984 of 21052 Old 08-08-2014, 06:41 PM
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Need Help w/ B&W XT8's!

I figured if anyone could give me good advice with my truggles with the XT8's it would be you guys on this thread.


I have had these for about 3 years, have never been happy with their performance.


They are shrill, painful to listen to at loud volumes, and the woofers bottom out at anything over 2/3 volume.


I am driving them with a Denon AVR-X4000.


When setup with Audysey, they sound good for movies and are absolutely painful to listen to for music.


When I change from the Audysey XT32 setting to the EQ, I can tame the highs and crank up the lows a bit, which is much better, but still no where close to what you should get from a $$2K - $3K set of speakers.


The Deon has a volume scale of 0-98, the XT8's breakup and the woofers bottom out around 68, and it is loud at that volume but not really loud (I know that's very subjective, they simply start to breakup very early at only moderately loud volumes).


For context, I just purchased a set of Klipsch AW650 outdoor speakers, and those $300 speakers blow away these $3,000 B&W's.


I can crank up the Klipsch outdoor speakers to close to 80 before they start to distort.


Something must be wrong with them.


Blown woofers?


Bad crossovers?


Any ideas?
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post #18985 of 21052 Old 08-09-2014, 04:18 AM
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For context, I just purchased a set of Klipsch AW650 outdoor speakers, and those $300 speakers blow away these $3,000 B&W's.
?
The Klipschs are 9 db more sensitive. They will absolutely rock with anything over 100watts. The xt8s sensitivity is 86db. Your x4000 is rated at 125 w/ch and who knows how much your speakers are seeing. Those speakers would need to see 600 watts to keep up with the klipschs on that avr. The klipsch see less distortion since the avr is working less, thus cleaner power. The xt8s design don't really lend it to the "loud" side.

Regardless, if you find the speakers unlistenable and you can't change the room and eq isnt working then I would stop and sell the speakers and find something that works with your setup and room.

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Thinking about selling my 802n speakers that are in my rear channel position.
I was thinking about just going to 804 for rear and effect speakers. Save room and all.

I do not have the boxes or grills. They are in great shape though. What would be a good price to ask for?

Thanks
Bill
$4000 in rosenut/ cherry, $4250 in black then I would take off $100 per week until they are sold. But you would need a local sale since you dont have the boxes so you will have to be patient. Offering free delivery or meet up within 4 hours of your place will help.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-09-2014 at 04:28 AM.
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post #18986 of 21052 Old 08-09-2014, 07:29 AM
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Has any one mounted the 802D or 802D2 on spikes?
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post #18987 of 21052 Old 08-09-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
The Klipschs are 9 db more sensitive. They will absolutely rock with anything over 100watts. The xt8s sensitivity is 86db. Your x4000 is rated at 125 w/ch and who knows how much your speakers are seeing. Those speakers would need to see 600 watts to keep up with the klipschs on that avr. The klipsch see less distortion since the avr is working less, thus cleaner power. The xt8s design don't really lend it to the "loud" side.

Regardless, if you find the speakers unlistenable and you can't change the room and eq isnt working then I would stop and sell the speakers and find something that works with your setup and room.

Good advice, but this doesn't really address the SQ issue. I don't just have a problem getting the dB I am looking for, I cannot get the SQ I am looking for.


While the best option may be to ditch the speakers, that could be a $3K to $4K option (I would likely look at the CM10's), whereas (I think) you can get a decent dedicated amp for less than $1K?


So, do you think I would be able to improve the SQ much along with the dB if I ran more power to them with a dedicated amp?


Its been a while since I actively followed these forums, what is the sweet spot for most bang for the buck amps these days, still Emotiva?


Never ran a separate dedicated amp before, as this is also my HT setup, wouldn't running more power to the left/right channels overwhelm my center and surrounds?


Ditching the speakers is clearly the best option, just want to consider the other alternatives before doing that.


Sorry for the rookie questions. Thanks.
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post #18988 of 21052 Old 08-09-2014, 03:20 PM
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The two biggest things that affect SQ are the speakers and the room. If you find the speakers harsh and unlistenable I would look at the room first and work to fix that if needed. If you are still unhappy then upgrade the speakers.

But remember, if you put class A speakers in a poor room, they will sound poor. It might not be worth it to spend big bux on speakers if you have a room that doesnt allow you to get the most out of them.

Buying a new amp will give you more db but little SQ improvement.
There is no sense of trying to fix your sound with different equipment that will only offer minor improvements. Find the speakers you love first then improve their sound from the source back. If you like the CM10s they have a sensitivity of 90, which should work well with your receiver.

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post #18989 of 21052 Old 08-09-2014, 07:38 PM
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So I"m on the fence about a couple things.

My Setup
1)Yamaha Aventage RX-A2000
2) Fronts B&W 685 S2 (Powered by Adcom GFA-5500)
3)2 Subs....SVS PB10-NSD and Polk DSW PRO 600(soon to be updated by one SVS PB1000)
4)Polk Audio RTI 6 Surrounds
4) Center Polk Audio CSI6

Looking to purchase something(slowly making move to all B&W)

1.Is the $300 price difference between the 600 HTM62 S2 and the 600 HTM61 S2 really worth it?

2. Should I just upgrade my 685 S2 to 683 S2's? Will there be that much of a difference even though i will have everything crossed over @80HZ where the sub would come in?

Thanks in advance!
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post #18990 of 21052 Old 08-09-2014, 09:33 PM
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Hey guys,

I recently upgraded from a set of CDM-9NTs for mains to a pair of Nautilus 803. There were from a guys two-channel setup. I sold the 9NTs and am very happy with the N803s. However, I have a mismatch in the front stage - as I still am using the CDM-CNT. Honestly -- it still sounds pretty good to my ears. But I figure I should upgrade such a critical speaker (the center) to be in line with my new mains.

I have been perusing eBay, CL, and AG for Nautilus HTM1s -- but also know that the HTM3S is very similar (with an upgraded cabinet, tweeter and bass drivers). They seem to be similar in price -- with the HTM3S seeming to fetch closer to $1700-ish -- whereas I have seen HTM1s sell for $1500 or less.

Now the question -- given that we are only talking a couple hundred bucks -- does it make sense to try to secure the HTM3S (rather than the Nautilus HTM1)? Do the upgrades make an audible difference? I realize that the HTM1 is the natural fit for my N803s -- but figure that the "tonality" of the two centers would be similar, with perhaps better details from the HTM3S. Since I am a mostly movie/TV guys, the big question in my mind is -- will the improved speaker (HTM3S) make my dialogue and center stage sound better?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Room is a 23' x 19' x 8.5' dedicated, sealed basement theater. Rest of system is as follows:

Denon X4000 (used as pre-pro)
Sherbourn PA7-350
Xbox 360
PS4
PS3 (for BR and SACD duty)
Toshiba HD-XA2
B&W Nautilus 803 (L/R)
B&W CDM-CNT (looking for Black Nautilus HTM1 or HTM3S)
Definitive Technology BPX (surround) and BP2X (surround backs)
Seaton SubMersive HP+ Master & Slave setup
Logitech Harmony Ultimate
Velodyne SMS-1
Sony VPL-HW55ES
VAPEX 120" Fixed Frame Screen
DirecTV HR21-200

Last edited by Skrill; 08-09-2014 at 09:39 PM.
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