B&W Owner's Thread - Page 634 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #18991 of 19418 Old 08-09-2014, 09:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Skrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Hey guys,

I recently upgraded from a set of CDM-9NTs for mains to a pair of Nautilus 803. There were from a guys two-channel setup. I sold the 9NTs and am very happy with the N803s. However, I have a mismatch in the front stage - as I still am using the CDM-CNT. Honestly -- it still sounds pretty good to my ears. But I figure I should upgrade such a critical speaker (the center) to be in line with my new mains.

I have been perusing eBay, CL, and AG for Nautilus HTM1s -- but also know that the HTM3S is very similar (with an upgraded cabinet, tweeter and bass drivers). They seem to be similar in price -- with the HTM3S seeming to fetch closer to $1700-ish -- whereas I have seen HTM1s sell for $1500 or less.

Now the question -- given that we are only talking a couple hundred bucks -- does it make sense to try to secure the HTM3S (rather than the Nautilus HTM1)? Do the upgrades make an audible difference? I realize that the HTM1 is the natural fit for my N803s -- but figure that the "tonality" of the two centers would be similar, with perhaps better details from the HTM3S. Since I am a mostly movie/TV guys, the big question in my mind is -- will the improved speaker (HTM3S) make my dialogue and center stage sound better?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Room is a 23' x 19' x 8.5' dedicated, sealed basement theater. Rest of system is as follows:

Denon X4000 (used as pre-pro)
Sherbourn PA7-350
Xbox 360
PS4
PS3 (for BR and SACD duty)
Toshiba HD-XA2
B&W Nautilus 803 (L/R)
B&W CDM-CNT (looking for Black Nautilus HTM1 or HTM3S)
Definitive Technology BPX (surround) and BP2X (surround backs)
Seaton SubMersive HP+ Master & Slave setup
Logitech Harmony Ultimate
Velodyne SMS-1
Sony VPL-HW55ES
VAPEX 120" Fixed Frame Screen
DirecTV HR21-200

_____________________________________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Skrill; 08-09-2014 at 09:39 PM.
Skrill is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #18992 of 19418 Old 08-10-2014, 07:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
HarrisonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpr View Post
Good advice, but this doesn't really address the SQ issue. I don't just have a problem getting the dB I am looking for, I cannot get the SQ I am looking for.


While the best option may be to ditch the speakers, that could be a $3K to $4K option (I would likely look at the CM10's), whereas (I think) you can get a decent dedicated amp for less than $1K?


So, do you think I would be able to improve the SQ much along with the dB if I ran more power to them with a dedicated amp?


Its been a while since I actively followed these forums, what is the sweet spot for most bang for the buck amps these days, still Emotiva?


Never ran a separate dedicated amp before, as this is also my HT setup, wouldn't running more power to the left/right channels overwhelm my center and surrounds?


Ditching the speakers is clearly the best option, just want to consider the other alternatives before doing that.


Sorry for the rookie questions. Thanks.
It seems that you are used to running your speakers at levels that most people would consider to be unbearably loud, even with the moderate ~90 dB sensitivity of most B&W speakers.. At any reasonable lever you should never hear any obvious, audible distortion.

If you do, you risk damaging your speakers. If the distortion occurs in the woofers, you will likely overheat the voice coils, causing them to warp and unravel - and that will give you plenty of distortion, even at low levels. If the distortion occurs in the amp or receiver (i.e., clipping), the harmonics will likely overwhelm and damage the tweeters.

In any case, it seems you may have already done this kind of damage to the XT8's. Sure, I have had my speakers reaching extremely loud levels on a few occasions, but I have never driven them, or the amp to levels where they exhibit any obvious, audible distortion.

You really should avoid conducting destructive failure tests on your speakers!
HarrisonS is offline  
post #18993 of 19418 Old 08-10-2014, 08:11 AM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 6,735
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 376 Post(s)
Liked: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
The two biggest things that affect SQ are the speakers and the room. If you find the speakers harsh and unlistenable I would look at the room first and work to fix that if needed. If you are still unhappy then upgrade the speakers.

But remember, if you put class A speakers in a poor room, they will sound poor. It might not be worth it to spend big bux on speakers if you have a room that doesnt allow you to get the most out of them. Buying a new amp will give you more db but little SQ improvement.

There is no sense of trying to fix your sound with different equipment that will only offer minor improvements. Find the speakers you love first ....
Agreed 100% fixing the room will do alot more than buying cables, new amps and so on... Also don't forget to get you ears cleanned every year by an ENT

In addition, well recorded music is essential to good sound.

My humble Cinema
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
wse is offline  
post #18994 of 19418 Old 08-10-2014, 09:28 AM
rpr
Member
 
rpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the feedback guys.


On the extremely loud perspective, I can see why you may suspect I have been pushing the speakers beyond their limits from my comments, but that really is not the case.


If I ever hear distortion, they immediately get turned down, but that's the issue, I have to play the at low to moderate volumes that just does not work well for my huge open room.


So the comments on the room are definitely a factor here, but there isn't much I can do to this room.


The comment on well recorded music is definitely relevant here; however, the $300 Klipsch 650AW's I mentioned plays the same music in an outdoor completely open setting immensely better than these $3K XT8's.


But since this excellent point was raised, let me ask a question, I listen to a lot of music on Spotify, and I use the "Extreme" quality setting, which is supposedly 328kb/s.


I'm not sure how real this specification is, but for those who use Spotify's Extreme setting, what are your thoughts on the quality of those streams?
rpr is offline  
post #18995 of 19418 Old 08-10-2014, 10:18 PM
wse
AVS Special Member
 
wse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 6,735
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 376 Post(s)
Liked: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
Nooo, i was thinking every other update. So that might be 8 years away.
I see in eight years yes maybe it all depends, I am not getting any younger so it might not matter!

Presbyacusis is the medical term for hearing loss that occurs in older people as they age. It is the most common cause for hearing loss in people aged over 55.

My humble Cinema
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by wse; 08-10-2014 at 10:23 PM.
wse is offline  
post #18996 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 01:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Looking to buy CM5 pair as book shelf

Can some one help me with placement.
I intend to use on the top shelf of my cabinet, 24 H, 32 W and approx 12 inch deep.
zoro is offline  
post #18997 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 04:56 AM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpr View Post
Thanks for the feedback guys.

So the comments on the room are definitely a factor here, but there isn't much I can do to this room.


The comment on well recorded music is definitely relevant here; however, the $300 Klipsch 650AW's I mentioned plays the same music in an outdoor completely open setting immensely better than these $3K XT8's.
I understand your room limitations, many of us have factors that we can't change due to WAF, Budget, Room Config, etc.

The next option would be to spend some time on placement. This involves changing the toe-in, distance from side and rear walls and the height. See if changing those variables cleans things up. When you say harsh and un-listenable I am equating that to the speaker being too bright. Changing toe-in might have the biggest effect outside of room treatments. Rather than having the tweeters directly pointed at your ears try decreasing the amount of toe-in, you might even prefer them shooting straight forward.

Your 650s might sound better due to them being outside. In an outside environment you don't have many reflection points.

For fun, try bringing in the 650s and place them in the same spot as the XTs and see what you think. If you think they are "harsh" then you most likely have room issues. If that is the case then I would demo speakers that are on the warmer side then ask for in-home auditions. If you think the XT8 is bright in your room I would predict that you won't be happy with the CM10s either.

But as I tell everyone your ears are whats important and I am only giving you advice based on my experience.
advanced101101 is offline  
post #18998 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 05:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
Can some one help me with placement.
I intend to use on the top shelf of my cabinet, 24 H, 32 W and approx 12 inch deep.
What are trying to buy use or new ones.
Chise is offline  
post #18999 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 05:28 AM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
Can some one help me with placement.
I intend to use on the top shelf of my cabinet, 24 H, 32 W and approx 12 inch deep.
The CM5s are rear ported so unless you intend to plug the rear port with the supplied foam plugs I would not recommend using it on a bookshelf against a wall. Plugging the port will cut off some of the lower end bass.

I would look for a speaker that is front ported unless bass isn't a concern of yours. The 6 Series Bookshelfs, PM1, 805s are front ported or you could try a different brand.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-11-2014 at 05:33 AM.
advanced101101 is offline  
post #19000 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 08:02 AM
Member
 
Berland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 13
In the Dolby Atmos white-papers (http://www.avsforum.com/uploads/Dolb...me-Theater.pdf
they claim that you need ceiling-speakers with wide dispersion patterns (90 x 90 degrees).

Quote:
Dolby recommends ceiling speakers with wide dispersion patterns. If you use ceiling
speakers with narrow dispersion (less than 90 degrees  90 degrees) or those with aimable
drivers, angle the drivers slightly toward your listening position.
Will we see any new speakers from B&W matching these specifications? Or are we left dry and would need to change to other brands?

HT: CLASSE CA-5300 DELTA - BRYSTON 4B SST2 - DENON 4520CI - B&W 803D2, 2*DB1, HTM2D2, 804D2, Nautilus SCM1, 805D2, SA Talent - VAN DEN HUL - GIK ACOUSTICS - AUDYSSEY Pro Kit - SAMSUNG ES8005 46" - MAC Mini Late 2012 i7/16GB/SSD - SYNOLOGY NAS 50TB
HP: Oppo HA-1 - Audeze LCD-3(Fazor), LCD-XC - Sennheiser IE 800 - Cambridge DacMagic Plus - Beyerdynamic T5p, T70p
Berland is offline  
post #19001 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 08:07 AM
Member
 
Daniel Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I am looking for good LCR in wall. Any good options?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
In the Dolby Atmos white-papers (http://www.avsforum.com/uploads/Dolb...me-Theater.pdf
they claim that you need ceiling-speakers with wide dispersion patterns (90 x 90 degrees).



Will we see any new speakers from B&W matching these specifications? Or are we left dry and would need to change to other brands?
What are the dispersion patterns from the existing B&W speakers. I would have guessed that they would already be pretty close to that specification. I think they are almost all aim-able so dolby seems to think they could be used.
Daniel Smith is offline  
post #19002 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 11:55 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
What are trying to buy use or new ones.
either way shall work
zoro is offline  
post #19003 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 11:57 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
The CM5s are rear ported so unless you intend to plug the rear port with the supplied foam plugs I would not recommend using it on a bookshelf against a wall. Plugging the port will cut off some of the lower end bass.

I would look for a speaker that is front ported unless bass isn't a concern of yours. The 6 Series Bookshelfs, PM1, 805s are front ported or you could try a different brand.
thanks. i would like some that sound as good as CM5
zoro is offline  
post #19004 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gecko85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California
Posts: 2,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 118 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
thanks. i would like some that sound as good as CM5
Any chance you can put the CM5's on stands? That would allow you to get them away from the wall, and they'll sound much better.

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
----------------------------------------
Sony 34XBR960, Onkyo TX-NR414, Sony PS3, Athena Point 5 Mk II (center and fronts), Wharfedale WH-2 (rears), Polk PSW10
Gecko85 is offline  
post #19005 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 12:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
Any chance you can put the CM5's on stands? That would allow you to get them away from the wall, and they'll sound much better.
I agree ! but family is not quite upto it.
other alternate is to drywall the alcove and install in wall speakers including centre
zoro is offline  
post #19006 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 01:10 PM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
There are a few front ported speakers out there around $1500:

Sonus Faber Venere 1.5/ 2.0
Paradigm Reference Studio 20
Focal Profile 908

Just to name a few. Or you could get a custom ID manufacturer like Salk/ Selah to build you a set. If you really like the CM5s and you can extend your budget to $2500 I would go with the PM1

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-11-2014 at 01:25 PM.
advanced101101 is offline  
post #19007 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 01:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I agree ! but family is not quite upto it.
other alternate is to drywall the alcove and install in wall speakers including centre
BW's do have in-wall speakers, but they are expensive, the ones that sound good, most folks I talk too think they are HT speakers.
Chise is offline  
post #19008 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 01:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
There are a few front ported speakers out there around $1500:

Sonus Faber Venere 1.5/ 2.0
Paradigm Reference Studio 20
Focal Profile 908

Just to name a few. Or you could get a custom ID manufacturer like Salk/ Selah to build you a set. If you really like the CM5s and you can extend your budget to $2500 I would go with the PM1

How deep Are paradigm?
Any LCR? Like CM1
zoro is offline  
post #19009 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 01:41 PM
Senior Member
 
kamouflage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
There are a few front ported speakers out there around $1500:

Sonus Faber Venere 1.5/ 2.0
Paradigm Reference Studio 20
Focal Profile 908

Just to name a few. Or you could get a custom ID manufacturer like Salk/ Selah to build you a set. If you really like the CM5s and you can extend your budget to $2500 I would go with the PM1
I'll vouch for the Studio 20's as being awesome speakers. I think the CM5's are incredible sounding speakers. They were my first choice during my last bout of upgradeitis but location ruled them out for me too with them being rear ported, good luck.

PSN ID: javant86

kamouflage is online now  
post #19010 of 19418 Old 08-11-2014, 01:45 PM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
How deep Are paradigm?
Any LCR? Like CM1
It seems that the Paradigm Center is rear ported. You might just be able to get three Studio 20s.

The Venere 1.5 is 12" in depth and they also have a matching front ported Center. Check out the Sonus Faber site for more info. Sonus Faber is sold at many locations so finding a pair to audition shouldn't be too hard.

Last edited by advanced101101; 08-11-2014 at 01:55 PM.
advanced101101 is offline  
post #19011 of 19418 Old 08-12-2014, 08:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I don't have room for center, it has to be on wall or in wall too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
zoro is offline  
post #19012 of 19418 Old 08-12-2014, 08:49 AM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I don't have room for center, it has to be on wall or in wall too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You can get three Studio 20s for LCR.

Are they going on top of your cabinet? If so, I'm going to assume that the top of the cabinet is above ear height. If that is true consider how you are going to tilt the speakers down towards the listening position. (Or if your bookshelf is above ear height)

Consider something like the Auralex Mopad Iso Pad:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...FZJr7AodsEQAWw

They are cheap, adjustable and will isolate the speaker from the bookshelf, cleaning up the sound.
advanced101101 is offline  
post #19013 of 19418 Old 08-12-2014, 10:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
danielo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
Posts: 4,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post
BW's do have in-wall speakers, but they are expensive, the ones that sound good, most folks I talk too think they are HT speakers.
Which do you consider good, i am pondering adding a few backspeakers to my 802/htm2 fronts. I am looking at CI700 line. want to get 4 or 6 CCM7.4's for the job because they have a good included backbox.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
danielo is offline  
post #19014 of 19418 Old 08-13-2014, 06:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Rod#S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 28
advanced101101, did you get your 800's yet? If so how are you liking them? Care to comment on how you feel they compare to your 802's, what's the same, what's different, etc?

Rod#S is online now  
post #19015 of 19418 Old 08-13-2014, 06:31 PM
Senior Member
 
wadeh911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 280
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post
Which do you consider good, i am pondering adding a few backspeakers to my 802/htm2 fronts. I am looking at CI700 line. want to get 4 or 6 CCM7.4's for the job because they have a good included backbox.

Daniel.
I'm very happy with my two rear channel in ceiling speakers B&W CCM80's. They blend extremely well with my front 803D's and HTM2D2 center. Not using backboxes with mine.

South Florida is my Theater
Listen to live music and recreate it at home.
wadeh911 is offline  
post #19016 of 19418 Old 08-14-2014, 04:30 AM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
advanced101101, did you get your 800's yet? If so how are you liking them? Care to comment on how you feel they compare to your 802's, what's the same, what's different, etc?
You know I wrote an entire review yesterday and my damn browser froze and lost it all
advanced101101 is offline  
post #19017 of 19418 Old 08-14-2014, 04:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jima4a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by advanced101101 View Post
You know I wrote an entire review yesterday and my damn browser froze and lost it all
Sounds a bit like the Dog ate my homework. 😄 And yes the Dog has also eaten my homework in the past, it sucks.
jima4a is online now  
post #19018 of 19418 Old 08-14-2014, 05:37 AM
Member
 
advanced101101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked: 16
My Review of the 800 Diamond versus the 802 Diamond

My new speaker search started a couple months ago. I originally had a set of Salk HT2-TL, not a shabby speaker by any means. But, it would take something special to be clearly better. I had listened to a bunch of different brands and speakers but I kept coming back to B&W. There is something about the house sound that I find enjoyable for classic rock. Once you get into the 800 series you get all the music detail but little of the harshness involved with hyper accurate speakers. So I picked up a pair of 802 Diamonds. I had them for a week and loved them, but I knew there was more, and I wanted it. It has been 5+ years since I heard a set of 800s and from I remembered they were fantastic. So I created more money in the budget and exchanged the 802s for the 800s. I moved up to the 800s without hearing them, on a leap of faith that they would be everything that the 802s are and more.

I was more than glad I did.

The 800 Diamond is in a completely different league than the 802 Diamond.

The first thing I noticed is that this speaker seems much more efficient than the 802. This is strange considering both speakers are rated at 90db. I found myself not needing to turn the volume up nearly as much to excite the speaker. I imagine that some people would be happy running this speaker off of a 75 WPC tube amp, although I doubt it would be able to control the woofers like a quality solid-stage amp. The dynamics of the 800s are much closer to a much larger high efficiency speaker like a JTR than the 802/803.

Bass: The bass is much more impactful. Once broken in (4 Hours of Electronic Music) the 800s dig much deeper. The bass still retains the speed of the 802s two 8” drivers but now I can feel it. “Fast Bass” is a term many dismiss but I refer to it as the speaker’s ability to reproduce a high frequency of kick drums independently. When listening to Rush’s Tom Sawyer Drum Solo each kick was fierce but separate, no muddiness here. The rise and fall of each bass note was reproduced with amazing speed and clarity. The speed is faster than my JL F113, although the F113 is much more visceral. I preferred the 802s with my F113 for music. I prefer the 800s without the F113. Maybe I would need two F113s to compliment the 800s, one F113 just gets lost. The bass is so good that I am thinking about selling the F113, but for right now I only have it turned on to shore up the lowest of lows on movies.

Mid-Range: Same mid-range driver as the 802 I should expect the same result with the 800? Wrong. The lower mid-range is much more natural. Male vocals have an inviting sound that might make you want to put away your Norah Jones albums and put on some Bob Dylan and Eric Clapton. After listening to the 800s I realized that many of the speakers that I have listened to have been a tad boxy and bloated in this region. Don’t get me wrong the 802s are great I would never have noticed this unless I compared it to the 800. The mid-range also seems slightly more detailed, diving deeper into each recording. As a measure of detail I use Pink Floyd’s The Final Cut. This recording a ton of detail deep into the soundstage that is only re-produced by quality speakers. Each time I upgrade my speakers I hear more and more out of the recording, it is kind of amazing considering I have been listening to that recording for 15 years.

Highs: The 800 and the 802 are comparable in the HF region. Although I would classify the highs as being neutral I would have to say with my associated equipment it is one small notch on the bright side. This is something that I find enjoyable. My sound is comparable to an all Rotel setup as opposed to an all Mcintosh setup. My preferred toe-in with the 800s was similar to my preference of all the 800 series with the tweeters crossing 8’ beyond my listening position.

Other Notes: This is a large speaker. Pictures on the internet make it seem like the 802s are similar in size but this isn’t the case. My girlfriend and I unpacked the 802s, for the 800s I requested my dealer give me hand. Once upright and unpacked the speaker move freely on the stock wheels. The 800s create a physical presence in the room whereas the 802s would blend in with a nice stand. WAF might be a factor for some due to its size. I’m not sure how I feel about the look on the Aluminum base plate but I would probably prefer it being matte black. The 800 is also 1" taller than the 802. For most people this will put the tweeter above the listener's ears in the seated position. I currently have the speakers tilted a bit with the included spikes but I am going to fine tune the tilt this weekend. You have to be careful though, the drivers are physically time aligned and that isn't something you want to mess with much.

If I was a reviewer I would give the 802s a 4/5 and the 800s 5/5. I didn’t understand what a “reference” speaker is until now. My speaker search is over and I will probably hold on to them for 8-10 years.

Original Speaker Considerations: Revel Salon/Studio, Sonus Faber Olympica, Focal Utopia, Salk SS10, Martin Logan

Potential Questions:
Is the 800 $10,000 better than the 802? I would say definitely, if you can afford it. Let’s say you have a $30,000 budget for equipment and speakers. I would rather have the 800s running with $5000 in equipment than have the 802s running with $15,000 in equipment. Although you would have to be smart how you spend the $5000.
Would the 802s be better than the 800s running $10,000 in subs? Depends on what is more important to you. Obviously $10,000 in subs (Two F113s) would create a fierce front of sub 80Hz sound, which would benefit movies. But for music the 800s mid-range and upper bass would still be far superior. And hey, you could always add subs later.

Associated Equipment: Wyred 4 Sound DAC2, Wyred 4 Sound mAmps, Mac Mini running Pure Music and hi-res music, quality cabling. The new mAmps are something to consider. At $2300 for a pair they provide more than enough detail and current to give the 800s what they need. Their small form factor doesn’t hurt either. As I continue to upgrade my system I am exciting knowing that the 800s will reward me with even better sound. I’m not even close to achieving the speaker’s full potential.

Below is pic of the 800s in my setup. Not ideal, but temporary. I have a new stand coming in a few weeks that will afford me floor space to get the F113 in there. Next year I plan on moving into a new house with a dedicated room.



Last edited by advanced101101; 08-14-2014 at 06:44 AM.
advanced101101 is offline  
post #19019 of 19418 Old 08-14-2014, 06:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Chise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post
Which do you consider good, i am pondering adding a few backspeakers to my 802/htm2 fronts. I am looking at CI700 line. want to get 4 or 6 CCM7.4's for the job because they have a good included backbox.

Daniel.
I did check them out, I will go to the design center in listen to them.
Chise is offline  
post #19020 of 19418 Old 08-14-2014, 09:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,261
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berland View Post
In the Dolby Atmos white-papers (http://www.avsforum.com/uploads/Dolb...me-Theater.pdf
they claim that you need ceiling-speakers with wide dispersion patterns (90 x 90 degrees).

Will we see any new speakers from B&W matching these specifications? Or are we left dry and would need to change to other brands?
B&W and most manufacturers are probably just waiting to see if ATMOS has enough sustained and consistent market interest or go down in flames like other market failures.

If ATMOS is a true success, then there is no doubt B&W, Revel, KEF and everyone else will produce "ATMOS - ready" speakers.

Still way too early.
AcuDefTechGuy is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
B W , Bowers And Wilkings 685 Speakers , carver cm-1090
Gear in this thread - cm-1090 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off