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post #19051 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 01:49 PM
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North Houston Suburbs.
Well ... at least it is not humid and you have good zoning laws ....

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post #19052 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 02:30 PM
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Sorry my friend you don't know about the homes in my area.
You sure do a lot of talking. Let's see your setup.


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post #19053 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 02:41 PM
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You sure do a lot of talking. Let's see your setup.
You got problem with that
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post #19054 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
First, congrats on your new toy.

Regarding that statement, I think you duly expressed a little bit too much zealous there.

I'm glad you love the 800D2. But diminishing returns apply here like everywhere.

Regarding measurements, the 802D actually measures better than the 800D with frequency response. So technically, the 802D is probably a little bit more "accurate". Probably insignificant difference.

It is completely understandable to see how a $25K speaker would subjectively sound "better" than a $15K speaker. It is in another league - the league that costs $10K more. There are other leagues of speakers that cost $20K, $40K, $80K, $160K more too.

But I have compared the 802D vs 800D several times in dealer rooms and they are not in another league in terms of sound quality.

Too much zealous, perhaps but you continue to point out how the 800 compared to the 802 and their similarities but that Stereophile comparison was the 800 Diamond to the 802D and not the 802 Diamond so making the assumption that the same is true between the 802 Diamond and 800 Diamond is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, just saying, not looking to have an argument I just wanted to point that out so everyone knows. Sound and Vision did a review by Thomas Norton of the 802 Diamonds as part of a complete Diamond series 5.1 setup but there was no mention on performance between it and the 800 Diamond that Kal did for Stereophile. Can't argue if B&W may have fine tuned performance by ear on the new series, or even the old as a means to explain the performance characteristics observed in the measurements, no one has anyway of proving that one way or the other.


There is certainly going to be diminishing returns, part of me wants to say beyond $10-$15k but in reality it probably starts less than that especially when a lot of the components in the speakers are the same such the B&W Diamond series but that's also true of say going from a Revel Studio 2 to an Ultima 2, or now a Wilson Sasha Series 2 to the Alexia to the Alexandria XLF or a Focal Scala to Maestro to Stella to Grande Utopia and on and on with the last two manufacturers seeing astronomical price differences between the 1st speaker I mention and last in the series.


Due to the similarities between the 2 in all honesty I personally think you do the speaker a major disservice by comparing the two in store, sure it's better than nothing I suppose but is no substitute for having the speaker in home setup in the same spot as the 802. Hopefully each store audition was at least performed by swapping between them then and there and ideally repositioning the speakers each time so they are always in the same position. Even if the home room is horrible at least it's going to be horrible for both speakers so a proper comparison can be done in an environment and with equipment you are familiar with. So in that case, without using a sub and the right source material, in my experience in a blind test with a lot of low bass material and low midrange material that falls into the bass drivers not the midrange speaker itself I think most should be able to pickup on the differences and quite easily at that. I find it is that noticeable. Moving up to the upper mid range and then into the high frequencies then forget about it Again my opinion But whether it's a better sound is subjective to the individual and if viewed as better is it a whopping $10k better. Getting to the another league question, again very subjective to the individual. However because of the similarities to the 802's, definitely more than differences when looking at the components it's good to question, what am I really paying for.


I ask that of Transparent cables all the time, especially that Opus stuff. What the hell is inside those "network boxes" and what the hell are the cables actually made of Yet nobody knows

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post #19055 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 05:11 PM
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There is certainly going to be diminishing returns, part of me wants to say beyond $10-$15k but in reality it probably starts less than that especially when a lot of the components in the speakers are the same such the B&W Diamond series but that's also true of say going from a Revel Studio 2 to an Ultima 2, or now a Wilson Sasha Series 2 to the Alexia to the Alexandria XLF or a Focal Scala to Maestro to Stella to Grande Utopia and on and on with the last two manufacturers seeing astronomical price differences between the 1st speaker I mention and last in the series........Due to the similarities between the 2 in all honesty I personally think you do the speaker a major disservice by comparing the two in store, sure it's better than nothing I suppose but is no substitute for having the speaker in home setup in the same spot as the 802. ......But whether it's a better sound is subjective to the individual and if viewed as better is it a whopping $10k better. Getting to the another league question, again very subjective to the individual. However because of the similarities to the 802's, definitely more than differences when looking at the components it's good to question, what am I really paying for.
Agreed, there is certainly going to be diminishing returns between 802D2 and 800D2, but if that's your hobby then who cares. I love the set-up I have, and yes it is over the top but so are any luxury item cars, boats, wines, watches, fountain pens and so on!

To each their pleasure, I would rather have a great Home Theater rather than an expensive car but that's just me. I don't neeed to drive around showing-up

My humble Cinema
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post #19056 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 06:30 PM
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If ATMOS is a true success, then there is no doubt B&W, Revel, KEF and everyone else will produce "ATMOS - ready" speakers.
Or, even, ATMOS-Enabled speakers. ;-)

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post #19057 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 07:21 PM
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Or, even, ATMOS-Enabled speakers. ;-)

Oh boy, don't even go there

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post #19058 of 19495 Old 08-14-2014, 07:23 PM
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..but if it catches on I'm sure they'll follow suit

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post #19059 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 07:26 AM
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Too much zealous, perhaps but you continue to point out how the 800 compared to the 802 and their similarities but that Stereophile comparison was the 800 Diamond to the 802D and not the 802 Diamond so making the assumption that the same is true between the 802 Diamond and 800 Diamond is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, just saying, not looking to have an argument I just wanted to point that out so everyone knows. Sound and Vision did a review by Thomas Norton of the 802 Diamonds as part of a complete Diamond series 5.1 setup but there was no mention on performance between it and the 800 Diamond that Kal did for Stereophile. Can't argue if B&W may have fine tuned performance by ear on the new series, or even the old as a means to explain the performance characteristics observed in the measurements, no one has anyway of proving that one way or the other.


There is certainly going to be diminishing returns, part of me wants to say beyond $10-$15k but in reality it probably starts less than that especially when a lot of the components in the speakers are the same such the B&W Diamond series but that's also true of say going from a Revel Studio 2 to an Ultima 2, or now a Wilson Sasha Series 2 to the Alexia to the Alexandria XLF or a Focal Scala to Maestro to Stella to Grande Utopia and on and on with the last two manufacturers seeing astronomical price differences between the 1st speaker I mention and last in the series.


Due to the similarities between the 2 in all honesty I personally think you do the speaker a major disservice by comparing the two in store, sure it's better than nothing I suppose but is no substitute for having the speaker in home setup in the same spot as the 802. Hopefully each store audition was at least performed by swapping between them then and there and ideally repositioning the speakers each time so they are always in the same position. Even if the home room is horrible at least it's going to be horrible for both speakers so a proper comparison can be done in an environment and with equipment you are familiar with. So in that case, without using a sub and the right source material, in my experience in a blind test with a lot of low bass material and low midrange material that falls into the bass drivers not the midrange speaker itself I think most should be able to pickup on the differences and quite easily at that. I find it is that noticeable. Moving up to the upper mid range and then into the high frequencies then forget about it Again my opinion But whether it's a better sound is subjective to the individual and if viewed as better is it a whopping $10k better. Getting to the another league question, again very subjective to the individual. However because of the similarities to the 802's, definitely more than differences when looking at the components it's good to question, what am I really paying for.


I ask that of Transparent cables all the time, especially that Opus stuff. What the hell is inside those "network boxes" and what the hell are the cables actually made of Yet nobody knows
I no longer own any B&W speakers. I couldn't care less if anyone tells himself that one speaker is heads and shoulders better than the other.

But I have listened many times to both 802D, 802D2, 800D, 800D2. There may be minor differences and they may be "worth" it to the respective buyers. No one can argue personal worth.

But to say that the 800 is in a totally different league above or better than the 802 is just risible. Let's get real here.

Again, no one is arguing personal worth. If you bought it, then it's worth it. But there is exponential diminishing returns between the 802 & 800. They may not be in the same league of cost, but they are in the same league in terms of performance.

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post #19060 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 07:32 AM
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I no longer own any B&W speakers. I couldn't care less if anyone tells himself that one speaker is heads and shoulders better than the other.

But I have listened many times to both 802D, 802D2, 800D, 800D2. There may be minor differences and they may be "worth" it to the respective buyers. No one can argue personal worth.

But to say that the 800 is in a totally different league above or better than the 802 is just risible. Get's get real here.

Again, no one is arguing personal worth. If you bought it, then it's worth it. But there is exponential diminishing returns between the 802 & 800. They may not be in the same league of cost, but they are in the same league in terms of performance.
Accu,

Since you have a lot of experience with the B&W 800-series products, can I ask you (as someone that has had limited experience) ... how do you view the differences of the following:

  1. Nautilus 802 to 802D?
  2. 803D to 802D? Same question assuming you have a highly competent subwoofer?
I am asking because I like to hear such opinions as I contemplate my own upgrade path. I only buy used speakers ... so I am specifically looking for info on prior gen stuff.

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post #19061 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 07:36 AM
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Or, even, ATMOS-Enabled speakers. ;-)
I think ATMOS & DTS MDA will be implemented on every future AVR & Pre-pro. But they will be backward compatible.

So even if you want 2.1, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1, etc., you can still enjoy your good old DTS-HD MA, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, & DD.

ATMOS will be "successful" in the sense that it is backward compatible and it will not even affect most of us.

ATMOS will "fail" in the sense that most people will not be willing to install 11 speakers in their 17' x 20' x 10' rooms.

I believe B&W engineers are just trying to decide how they will implement this - via ceiling speakers or top-firing floor speakers.
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post #19062 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 08:03 AM
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Accu,


Since you have a lot of experience with the B&W 800-series products, can I ask you (as someone that has had limited experience) ... how do you view the differences of the following:
  1. Nautilus 802 to 802D?
  2. 803D to 802D? Same question assuming you have a highly competent subwoofer?
1. The Nautilus 802 probably measures a lot better than most B&W speaker in terms of on-axis and especially off-axis. Thus, some people will actually prefer the more accurate Nautilus over the Diamond series. IMO, although the Nautilus measures more accurately and there will be differences, both sound more alike than they differ. I think in a blinded test, it would be more difficult to distinguish. Even if the Diamond is "better" in terms of subjective listening (certainly NOT objective measurements), any audible improvement is exponentially diminishing IMO. No doubt it is NOT worth it to some people, while totally worth it to others who have the money to spend on the 802D2 & 800D2.

2. IMO, the 803D2 + dual high quality subwoofers will sound better overall than the 802D2 & 800D2. The 803D2 won't look nearly as cool as the 802N, 802D2, & 800D2, though.
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post #19063 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
1. The Nautilus 802 probably measures a lot better than most B&W speaker in terms of on-axis and especially off-axis. Thus, some people will actually prefer the more accurate Nautilus over the Diamond series. IMO, although the Nautilus measures more accurately and there will be differences, both sound more alike than they differ. I think in a blinded test, it would be more difficult to distinguish. Even if the Diamond is "better" in terms of subjective listening (certainly NOT objective measurements), any audible improvement is exponentially diminishing IMO. No doubt it is NOT worth it to some people, while totally worth it to others who have the money to spend on the 802D2 & 800D2.

2. IMO, the 803D2 + dual high quality subwoofers will sound better overall than the 802D2 & 800D2. The 803D2 won't look nearly as cool as the 802N, 802D2, & 800D2, though.
Interesting -- thank you. I picked up these N803s that I am using now through a smoking deal through my local CL. So I dove on them like a hungry rotweiler on a steak. But I do covet the N802 (partly due to the aesthetics). I will keep them at the top of my upgrade plan. Thank you!!

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post #19064 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 08:40 AM
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1. The Nautilus 802 probably measures a lot better than most B&W speaker in terms of on-axis and especially off-axis. Thus, some people will actually prefer the more accurate Nautilus over the Diamond series. IMO, although the Nautilus measures more accurately and there will be differences, both sound more alike than they differ. I think in a blinded test, it would be more difficult to distinguish. Even if the Diamond is "better" in terms of subjective listening (certainly NOT objective measurements), any audible improvement is exponentially diminishing IMO. No doubt it is NOT worth it to some people, while totally worth it to others who have the money to spend on the 802D2 & 800D2.

2. IMO, the 803D2 + dual high quality subwoofers will sound better overall than the 802D2 & 800D2. The 803D2 won't look nearly as cool as the 802N, 802D2, & 800D2, though.
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Interesting -- thank you. I picked up these N803s that I am using now through a smoking deal through my local CL. So I dove on them like a hungry rotweiler on a steak. But I do covet the N802 (partly due to the aesthetics). I will keep them at the top of my upgrade plan. Thank you!!
The B&W 802 is sexy for sure.

At one point I almost pulled the trigger on a pair of N802 for $3K on Audiogon, but backed out because I was worried that it was too good to be true - that something had to be wrong.

I certainly don't think the 802D2 or 800D2 is worth the money over the N802. But that is my own definition of worth.
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post #19065 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 08:48 AM
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The B&W 802 is sexy for sure.

At one point I almost pulled the trigger on a pair of N802 for $3K on Audiogon, but backed out because I was worried that it was too good to be true - that something had to be wrong.

I certainly don't think the 802D2 or 800D2 is worth the money over the N802. But that is my own definition of worth.
Yeah -- I try to pick up all my used equipment local on CL. I got these N803s for $1200. The seller was asking $1500 but when I talked to him he said that he was getting calls mostly from out of state and dealers looking for a quick flip. He recognized my passion for B&W equipment and said he wanted to sell them to someone that would use them. He then knocked another $300 if I would drive up to Baltimore that day to grab 'em. Needless to say -- I came down with an case of B&W-itis, left work, jumped in my Touareg and drove up to get them. They looked hardly used (and in fact the owner had never even removed the shipping caps off the rear). They were night and day better than the CDM-9NTs that I had been using (and have since sold).

A few months ago someone local sold a set of 802s on CL for $2900. I reached out, but they had already been scooped.

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post #19066 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 08:57 AM
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Yeah -- I try to pick up all my used equipment local on CL. I got these N803s for $1200. The seller was asking $1500 but when I talked to him he said that he was getting calls mostly from out of state and dealers looking for a quick flip. He recognized my passion for B&W equipment and said he wanted to sell them to someone that would use them. He then knocked another $300 if I would drive up to Baltimore that day to grab 'em. Needless to say -- I came down with an case of B&W-itis, left work, jumped in my Touareg and drove up to get them. They looked hardly used (and in fact the owner had never even removed the shipping caps off the rear). They were night and day better than the CDM-9NTs that I had been using (and have since sold).

A few months ago someone local sold a set of 802s on CL for $2900. I reached out, but they had already been scooped.
That's the way to do it! Too bad you missed on that great N802 deal.

I would have bought the Rosenut N802 for $3K if they were available to me on CL back then instead of Audiogon from 5 States over.

Well, good luck on your hunt.
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post #19067 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 10:32 AM
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I no longer own any B&W speakers. I couldn't care less if anyone tells himself that one speaker is heads and shoulders better than the other.

But I have listened many times to both 802D, 802D2, 800D, 800D2. There may be minor differences and they may be "worth" it to the respective buyers. No one can argue personal worth.

But to say that the 800 is in a totally different league above or better than the 802 is just risible. Get's get real here.

Again, no one is arguing personal worth. If you bought it, then it's worth it. But there is exponential diminishing returns between the 802 & 800. They may not be in the same league of cost, but they are in the same league in terms of performance.

Fair enough, I always found it odd you ended up with a pair of 802's anyways as you are so particular about measured performance, but you did like the look of them and I can relate. I'm glad the Sous Faber Amati Futura and the upcoming Lilium are well out of my price range because I would be tempted to buy those if I had the money on looks alone Gorgeous speakers and a fine center to boot, the Homage Vox. That would make for a sweet 5.1 setup, Liliums up front with the Vox and Futura's as surrounds. Oh mama!


Given your feelings I can understand why you wouldn't have taken the plunge on the 800's. It boggles my mind though how you ended up with a pair of Ultima 2's though rather than the Studio 2's as that would have saved you a bundle and basically got you the same performance , it's the B&W situation just with a different manufacturer But again it comes straight to your point about personal worth so I suppose by that token I guess do understand.

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post #19068 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 11:53 AM
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Fair enough, I always found it odd you ended up with a pair of 802's anyways as you are so particular about measured performance, but you did like the look of them and I can relate. I'm glad the Sous Faber Amati Futura and the upcoming Lilium are well out of my price range because I would be tempted to buy those if I had the money on looks alone Gorgeous speakers and a fine center to boot, the Homage Vox. That would make for a sweet 5.1 setup, Liliums up front with the Vox and Futura's as surrounds. Oh mama!


Given your feelings I can understand why you wouldn't have taken the plunge on the 800's. It boggles my mind though how you ended up with a pair of Ultima 2's though rather than the Studio 2's as that would have saved you a bundle and basically got you the same performance , it's the B&W situation just with a different manufacturer But again it comes straight to your point about personal worth so I suppose by that token I guess do understand.
I never debated why a person should buy one speaker instead of the other. The debate was never about personal worth. It was about their sound performance.

But looking at measurements, the Studio2's listening window FR averages about +/-2dB, while the Salon2 averages about +/-1.5dB.

From Sound & Vision Magazine: Salon2 FR: 28 Hz to 20 kHz +/- 1.3dB

The Salon2 has exceptionally even frequency response when measured on-axis or a few degrees off-axis; this is textbook performance few speakers can match.

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...r-model-page-2

Regarding measurements, the Salon2 has better measurements than the Studio2, not just better bass. The Salon2 also garnered "Speaker of the Year" awards from both Stereophile and Soundstage. So with all that, it is NOT so mind-boggling why I would choose the Salon2 over the Studio2.

On the other hand, the 802D, 802D2, N801 all have better FR measurements than the 800D2 - that is if a person were to care about measurements.

But the point is not why a person should buy one speaker over another or their worth. The point is that their performances have exponential diminishing returns. That is the salient point.

Objectively via FR measurement, the 800D2 is clearly NOT better than any of the 3 mentioned B&W. Even if the 800D2 is subjectively better and more preferred by its owners, it is definitely not a "league" better. I feel the same way about the Salon2 vs Studio2. The difference is subtle, not astronomical.

So I am willing to negotiate that the 800D2 is subtly better than the 802D2, which is worth the money to some people. Just don't make claims that it is in another league. That is just laughable.

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post #19069 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 02:07 PM
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Again, I can't argue against diminishing returns as it's so true, look a Focal Scala vs Grande Utopia EM or Wilson Sasha Series 2 vs Alexandria XLF. In my opinion if price wasn't a big factor in picking speaker of the year for magazines I believe those uber higher end type speakers would be the winners. Toss in Sonus Faber Aida's, Magic Q7's, TAD R1's, etc. into that mix as well. Magazines have to come up with something at least a decent percentage of the population might one day be able to attain. I'm not knocking the Salon2 vs B&W as they clearly like the Revel's over the B&W offerings.


I could go back and forth with you all day on this stuff, it's so fun, especially with the measurements you point out between the two Revels, that's all $6k gets you over the Studio2, sheesh, give me a break I suppose the Salon2 throws in a 2 additional drivers so visually it makes it look like you get more I tease of course. Then you could say well for $10k what am I getting from the 800 that I couldn't from the 802 , not a lot, a subtle improvement as you put it ... and back and forth we go


So I'll leave it at that. We know what we want in a speaker, whether that's what ours ears tell us or eyes or both, we also have nuances in sound reproduction that we put different priorities on and we of course know what we are willing to pay or not willing to pay for all of that and both recognize diminishing returns is a reality.


B&W and Revel aside, I would really enjoy doing a series of blind tests with you where you have no idea what speaker manufacturers were being tested let alone speaker models and where you are forced to use your ears only and could not look to a measurement plot and how you evaluate the differences in the sound you hear. It would be very curious at what point, if any you would ever label one choice clearly superior to another.

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post #19070 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
I would really enjoy doing a series of blind tests with you where you have no idea what speaker manufacturers were being tested... It would be very curious at what point, if any you would ever label one choice clearly superior to another.
That's kind of my point - the subtleties and diminishing returns.

Whether it is between the 802 vs 800, 800D1 vs 800D2, or 800 vs Salon2, assuming we make it so that the bass is equal and the level is matched, the difference in preference between 2 high quality tweeters and 2 high quality midrange drivers is a lot more subtle than what some people claim.

Last edited by AcuDefTechGuy; 08-15-2014 at 04:18 PM.
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post #19071 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
That's kind of my point - the subtleties and diminishing returns.

Whether it is between the 802 vs 800, 800D1 vs 800D2, or 800 vs Salon2, assuming we make it so that the bass is equal and the level is matched, the difference in preference between 2 high quality tweeters and 2 high quality midrange drivers is a lot more subtle than what some people claim.

If we are still talking about the B&W's, if you were just looking to compare the mid range driver and high frequency driver then yeah, sure, I already know I wouldn't be able to hear much if any difference, as I live with the 2 speakers but what I was getting at with being able to spend some time with you would be just level matching the speakers, that's it but the speakers must run full range, no rolling frequencies off to subs, no disconnecting bass drivers etc. you need to hear and judge the whole speaker as a package. This wasn't a test simply for the B&W's or Revels it would be a test for any manufacturer's speakers where huge price differences exist yet they ultimately share many common components. I guess for kicks it would get even more interesting to then compare speakers from different manufacturers.

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post #19072 of 19495 Old 08-15-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
If we are still talking about the B&W's, if you were just looking to compare the mid range driver and high frequency driver then yeah, sure, I already know I wouldn't be able to hear much if any difference, as I live with the 2 speakers but what I was getting at with being able to spend some time with you would be just level matching the speakers, that's it but the speakers must run full range, no rolling frequencies off to subs, no disconnecting bass drivers etc. you need to hear and judge the whole speaker as a package. This wasn't a test simply for the B&W's or Revels it would be a test for any manufacturer's speakers where huge price differences exist yet they ultimately share many common components. I guess for kicks it would get even more interesting to then compare speakers from different manufacturers.
Yes. I agree it would be enlightening.

People have often asked me to compare the 802D2 vs Salon2 vs Orion 3.2.1 in the same room. Very difficult for me to pick a clear winner.

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post #19073 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 06:17 AM
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Or, even, ATMOS-Enabled speakers. ;-)
I would go from ATMOS-Ready speakers to ATMOS-FULLHD speakers myself , I guess it really means the build in aimed up parts i can see the logic for some of the speaker brands it would force a upgrade cycle they can use to sell more product.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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post #19074 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 06:30 AM
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Are the Bowers & Wilkins 684 a good match for the Yamaha rx-v477? Can this receiver drive the speakers? It the B&w 686 or 685 a good match?

Thank for any advise
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post #19075 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 07:21 AM
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Are the Bowers & Wilkins 684 a good match for the Yamaha rx-v477? Can this receiver drive the speakers? It the B&w 686 or 685 a good match?

Thank for any advise
Yes. Should be good to go there. I would not waste any money on getting more power amps than that. Max rated power for those speakers is only 100W. Just don't play 105dB volume.
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post #19076 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Yes. Should be good to go there. I would not waste any money on getting more power amps than that. Max rated power for those speakers is only 100W. Just don't play 105dB volume.
Actually, the 684s can handle up to 150W. No danger of reaching that power with the Yamaha RX-477 even in two channel mode.

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post #19077 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 03:24 PM
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Need Help, I'm New!

Hello All. I just joined AVS out of necessity. I am VERY new to home theater, etc. I need some advice.

What I have so far...

65" Samsung - UN65HU8550 -4k UHD

Front left/right - B&W - CM8
center - B&W - CMC
Rear left/right - B&W - CCM683 (In Ceiling)

Subwoofer - SVS - PB13 Ultra

From what I understand, A/V receivers just do not have enough juice to properly power this set up, so I would need separates correct?

So ... then ... what to get is where my journey begins...I am willing to hold out to see what becomes of HDMI 2.0, and HDCP 2.2 implimentation, but still I need advice.

Given what I have, what would be the best options?
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post #19078 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGrouchyOne View Post
Hello All. I just joined AVS out of necessity. I am VERY new to home theater, etc. I need some advice.

What I have so far...

65" Samsung - UN65HU8550 -4k UHD

Front left/right - B&W - CM8
center - B&W - CMC
Rear left/right - B&W - CCM683 (In Ceiling)

Subwoofer - SVS - PB13 Ultra

From what I understand, A/V receivers just do not have enough juice to properly power this set up, so I would need separates correct?

So ... then ... what to get is where my journey begins...I am willing to hold out to see what becomes of HDMI 2.0, and HDCP 2.2 implimentation, but still I need advice.

Given what I have, what would be the best options?
Real simple. Get an AVR with pre-outs. If your volume isn't too loud and distance is not too far, many $1K AVR can power those B&W just fine, especially in 5.1 mode where you allow the SVS sub to do all the heavy lifting with the bass.

The CM9 is rated for 30-200W into 8 ohms. So most AVR should be fine.

But if not enough, then you can always add an external amp later - whether you need it or not.

Everyone's case is different. Power requirement depends on speaker sensitivity (the CM8 should be pretty sensitive), volume level, distance, and whether you listen in 2.0 direct or 2.1 with subwoofers.
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post #19079 of 19495 Old 08-16-2014, 08:56 PM
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thanks for the input. My concern is with avr's, their rated output is with 1 or 2 channels driven. If you dig deeper and look into the actual wattage usage of the devices, and divide by speakers being driven, the output is significantly smaller....for example, the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3040, rated at 150 watts, is with 2 channels driven into 8ohm loading...the specs say that AVR uses max 490 Watts....well, 490 if taken as a maximum, divided by 5 is 98.....and that is MAXXED out. This is what propted my questioning.

If i did go the separate route, any suggestions?

Isn't it kinda redundant to get an AVR, and an Amp? wouldn't and amp and processor be a better choice if going that route? Just curious...like i said, Im NEW.
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post #19080 of 19495 Old 08-17-2014, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Actually, the 684s can handle up to 150W. No danger of reaching that power with the Yamaha RX-477 even in two channel mode.

Do you mean that the RX-V477 does not have sufficient wattage per channel for the B&W 684 S2 ?

I am also auditioning the 683 S2. Now I am wondering if I should return the RX-V477 for the V677.

Thanks ...
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