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post #19111 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Yeah, when Denon came out with the upgrade to Audyssey XT32 for the AVP-A1HDCI & AVR-5308CI, the cost was $1200 alone for the upgrade.

So to get the X4000 for under $1K is a great value IMO.

I know I will offend some people by saying this and gain absolutely nothing, but personally I would buy a Denon AVR any day over any Emotiva pre-pro. Smug and conceited aren't I? That is my honest opinion. No good deeds go unpunished, so I better put on my flame suit.
I do not think you have ever owned or listened to the UMC-200. I owned a Denon 4310.4311 and 4520 amd UMC-200. I no longer own Denon.
The 4520 is a close second and all other Denons aren't close. IMO of course. However I speak from experience.
I also have a flame suit.
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post #19112 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Who is they? Placebo effects
Comparison of Audyssey vs MCACC vs YPAO.

https://translate.google.com/transla...rrection.shtml

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post #19113 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM
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I do not think you have ever owned or listened to the UMC-200. I owned a Denon 4310.4311 and 4520 amd UMC-200. I no longer own Denon.
The 4520 is a close second and all other Denons aren't close. IMO of course. However I speak from experience.
I also have a flame suit.
Everyone can see what Audyssey & Dynamic EQ can do for the frequency response.

Post some graphs of what the EMO can do. Everyone is invited to the party.

Let's see how flat and smooth the EMO can do for your speakers.
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post #19114 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Everyone can see what Audyssey & Dynamic EQ can do for the frequency response.

Post some graphs of what the EMO can do. Everyone is invited to the party.

Let's see how flat and smooth the EMO can do for your speakers.
Have you ever posted a graph of your room? I think not. Unless the graph is plotted in your listening area you have no idea what Audyssey is doing. Many have found it not to their liking except for the sub EQ. It also shoots for a house curve that may or may not be preferred.
No doubt that REQ's change the sound. It is simply a matter of whether or not you like the change. I don't and do not need a graph to tell me that.
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post #19115 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 07:13 PM
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I wouldn't really look at it from a point of view that monos will be potentially better at handling those types of loads but rather what amps in general do. I wouldn't necessarily equate monos with being better than multi-channel amps as a rule of thumb as there are some superbly designed multi-channel amps and I'm sure poorly designed monos on the market. The Anthem P series are monsters as you know with the P5 having 2 power cords . I always chuckle when I think of that amp, that's amazing. Monos in theory offer the obvious signal/channel separation but you now have more power cords to worry about plus a higher electricity bill and added heat to the room plus the extra floor space needed if placing the amps up front with the speakers. If you are a believer that the speaker cable should be as short as possible and that long cable runs should be done via the interconnects then monos are the way to go for that.


Personally I just like the idea and look of monos in a setup with the amp beside the speaker and started the move to all monos last fall. Was there an improvement. Sure but it was more subtle than slap you in the face noticeable and it was predominately in the bass when running my speakers full range because my monos have a lot more power than the stereo amp they replaced. I attribute this (i.e. subtle audible change in performance) to the manufacturer, I use Bryston and Bryston designs their amps to perform the same regardless of the model, the only choice one needs to make is how powerful of an amp do you want. The room is a hell of a lot hotter though after adding the monos
Depending upon the amps, heat dissipation can be significant. I just switched to Bryston as well recently, and the heat gain was noticeable over the McIntosh amps - so much so that I just spent a long weekend installing all my gear in a Middle Atlantic rack in the basement just adjacent to my theater space.
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post #19116 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Depending upon the amps, heat dissipation can be significant. I just switched to Bryston as well recently, and the heat gain was noticeable over the McIntosh amps - so much so that I just spent a long weekend installing all my gear in a Middle Atlantic rack in the basement just adjacent to my theater space.
I haven't posted in a while .... but .... you got rid of the macs?????? what did I miss?

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post #19117 of 19124 Old Yesterday, 08:00 PM
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I haven't posted in a while .... but .... you got rid of the macs?????? what did I miss?
No, I've not posted a lot lately myself...made the switch over the last month.

The Macs may be a bit better (or perhaps it might be more precise to say "different") but the Bryston's are superb in their own right...basically the hobby bug bit, and it was also financially advantageous to make the change.

The Macs also do throw off a light of light in the room, even with the meters off. This was subtly bothering me as well with my projection environment.

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post #19118 of 19124 Old Today, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Depending upon the amps, heat dissipation can be significant. I just switched to Bryston as well recently, and the heat gain was noticeable over the McIntosh amps - so much so that I just spent a long weekend installing all my gear in a Middle Atlantic rack in the basement just adjacent to my theater space.
Wow that's quite the move, what made you want to change? I've never heard McIntosh amps before but the general concensus I have been able to put together would make the move a lateral one as they seem to be on par with each other. Man you must have taken a huge hit in the pocket book unless you have a dealer that sells both and they were more than generous in trade in.

What amps did you end up getting and was it just amps or did you replace your other McIntosh gear as well?

I never noticed any appreciable heat with my 4B-SST's and 6B-SST but it's significant with the 28B-SST2's. Since most of the time they are barely idling when I'm watching tv they are running in Class A for most of that thus the heat. Once I crank up the system for a movie or music I notice they cool down a bit as they move into the Class A/B range.

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post #19119 of 19124 Old Today, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
Wow that's quite the move, what made you want to change? I've never heard McIntosh amps before but the general concensus I have been able to put together would make the move a lateral one as they seem to be on par with each other. Man you must have taken a huge hit in the pocket book unless you have a dealer that sells both and they were more than generous in trade in.

What amps did you end up getting and was it just amps or did you replace your other McIntosh gear as well?

I never noticed any appreciable heat with my 4B-SST's and 6B-SST but it's significant with the 28B-SST2's. Since most of the time they are barely idling when I'm watching tv they are running in Class A for most of that thus the heat. Once I crank up the system for a movie or music I notice they cool down a bit as they move into the Class A/B range.
I have a pair of the 7b sst2 monos, a 6b sst2 for the center and surrounds, and the 3b sst2 for rears.

I do a fair amount of tv watching, so they are likely running in class a often, thus the bake shop in my theater.

The MX 151 remains as the processor; I find in intrinsically a much better sounding unit than anything else I've had prior, and Room Perfect works much better for me than Audyssey Pro, and provides greater flexibility with the various curve options you can apply.

It's not to say that CEDIA won't change anything - curious if the 8802 is an improvement sonically, and hopefully McIntosh will have their successor ready, if not for CEDIA, sometime within the next year.

I'd like to hear the new Trinnov box as well.
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post #19120 of 19124 Old Today, 05:31 AM
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I have a pair of the 7b sst2 monos, a 6b sst2 for the center and surrounds, and the 3b sst2 for rears.

I do a fair amount of tv watching, so they are likely running in class a often, thus the bake shop in my theater.

The MX 151 remains as the processor; I find in intrinsically a much better sounding unit than anything else I've had prior, and Room Perfect works much better for me than Audyssey Pro, and provides greater flexibility with the various curve options you can apply.

It's not to say that CEDIA won't change anything - curious if the 8802 is an improvement sonically, and hopefully McIntosh will have their successor ready, if not for CEDIA, sometime within the next year.

I'd like to hear the new Trinnov box as well.

That's a nice combination of amps. Why the 3 and not the 4 for the rears, just curious?

I think now is not the time to be upgrading processors. With Atmos coming into the market this fall plus dts-UHD still being worked on (http://widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=20166) it's probably to early for most SSP manufacturers to come to market with the new tech as they tend to lag behind the receiver market. With CEDIA it will be intresting to see if we can get a peek into what the manufacturers are planning though. I'm also curious about the Altitude but I suspect it'll be way out of my price range at least fully configured. The Datasat LS10 had my eye but since it doesn't have Dirac like the RS20i and the uncertainty of Atmos I've ruled this out.

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post #19121 of 19124 Old Today, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post
Have you ever posted a graph of your room? I think not. Unless the graph is plotted in your listening area you have no idea what Audyssey is doing. Many have found it not to their liking except for the sub EQ. It also shoots for a house curve that may or may not be preferred.
No doubt that REQ's change the sound. It is simply a matter of whether or not you like the change. I don't and do not need a graph to tell me that.
I didn't mean a graph of your room or any specific room. I mean ANY examples just to see what the software can do.

I've posted a few Audyssey graphs from actual measurements taken from other forum members' rooms. I've seen many other Audyssey graphs on AVS & AH. I've also seen 1 graph of ARC done by a forum member. But most of the graphs were for Audyssey. And I see that time and time again, Audyssey consistently did a marvelous job FLATTENING out and smoothing out the frequency response in the rooms. But that just tells us one thing - that Audyssey can flatten and smooth out the frequency response, NOT how it SOUNDS or any personal preferences.

We can also see what Audyssey DYNAMIC EQ (DEQ) does to the already flatten and smooth frequency response graph. DEQ boosts the bass dynamically and variably from 20Hz-200Hz and flattens out the frequency response from 10kHz-20kHz. We see that on the graph.

The graphs I've seen of YPAO and MCACC are underwhelming at best - they look as if nothing were done because the pre and post graphs looked almost identical.

I have never seen a single graph of EMO's RC software (or Lyngdorf, Dirac, Trinnov). So I just wanted to know if someone - anyone has done it to see if they can also flatten out and smooth out the frequency response. But again, it would only tell us the frequency response, not the preference of sound.

Sure, anyone can say one RC software is more preferred. Anyone could say the Sony RC is more preferred than the Lyngdorf (Room-Perfect), Audyssey, ARC, Trinnov, Dirac, etc. Or the MCACC or YPAO is better than Room-Perfect, Trinnov, etc. It's just anyone's word. But it would be more helpful to see why they prefer it based on the graphs. It's not everything, but it is better than nothing.

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post #19122 of 19124 Old Today, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
That's a nice combination of amps. Why the 3 and not the 4 for the rears, just curious?

I think now is not the time to be upgrading processors. With Atmos coming into the market this fall plus dts-UHD still being worked on (http://widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=20166) it's probably to early for most SSP manufacturers to come to market with the new tech as they tend to lag behind the receiver market. With CEDIA it will be intresting to see if we can get a peek into what the manufacturers are planning though. I'm also curious about the Altitude but I suspect it'll be way out of my price range at least fully configured. The Datasat LS10 had my eye but since it doesn't have Dirac like the RS20i and the uncertainty of Atmos I've ruled this out.
Based on the distance, the 3b is more than sufficient for required output - and as you noted, there is no tradeoff dropping in the line other than power. Frankly, I don't need the 7b's, but I wanted monos for the mains.

Re: processors - I am thinking the same...often, the better prepro manufacturers trail new tech introduction by 6-12 months, so I wonder how much will be shown at CEDIA beyond general consumer gear.

I am making a wild guess that McIntosh will introduce a home theater receiver (personally not interested).

The 151 is so nice, I may keep this for some time...I doubt I will move to Atmos or similar VOG speakers, and for 4k input, I will upgrade my Lumagen when necessary (the paucity of 4k output devices makes this a slow and lazy consideration)

Has anyone heard if Audyssey is planning a next generation of its tech? Room Perfect does a much better job in bass eq, and does not tamp down the highs. If they could fix that, and add user accessible curves to apply after eq (to accommodate the wide range of source recordings), I think it would be a great move forward for them.
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post #19123 of 19124 Old Today, 06:28 AM
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Based on the distance, the 3b is more than sufficient for required output - and as you noted, there is no tradeoff dropping in the line other than power. Frankly, I don't need the 7b's, but I wanted monos for the mains.

Re: processors - I am thinking the same...often, the better prepro manufacturers trail new tech introduction by 6-12 months, so I wonder how much will be shown at CEDIA beyond general consumer gear.

I am making a wild guess that McIntosh will introduce a home theater receiver (personally not interested).

The 151 is so nice, I may keep this for some time...I doubt I will move to Atmos or similar VOG speakers, and for 4k input, I will upgrade my Lumagen when necessary (the paucity of 4k output devices makes this a slow and lazy consideration)

Has anyone heard if Audyssey is planning a next generation of its tech? Room Perfect does a much better job in bass eq, and does not tamp down the highs. If they could fix that, and add user accessible curves to apply after eq (to accommodate the wide range of source recordings), I think it would be a great move forward for them.
Yeah one can get carried away with to much power, I definitely don't need 28's but the deal I was offered was to good to pass up seeing as I had on occasion thought what if The 6 does a great job with the 802's and HTM2, that's what's running those speakers in my setup. I'll be replacing the 6 with three 7's eventually not because I need the extra power but because going monos is something I've always wanted to do. I think I may finally step into the digital high resolution music arena first though and get a Bryston BDP-2. I can get away with 96/24 for the time being by using my Lexicon MC-12 as the DAC then perhaps down the road move to something like the Bryston BDA-2 DAC to get 192/24 but I suppose by then I may replace the Lexicon and that new SSP may do 192/24 thus I still wouldn't need an external DAC.

What did your 7's come spec'd at wattage wise? The Bryston amps always come in higher than their advertised wattages. I've seen some 7's at the high 600 watt range. My 6 is 330 watts on all three channels.

Not sure about Audyssey, it would seem to make sense that they would have to update in order to accomodate the extra channels Atmos will bring to the table.

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post #19124 of 19124 Old Today, 06:32 AM
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Yeah one can get carried away with to much power, I definitely don't need 28's but the deal I was offered was to good to pass up seeing as I had on occasion thought what if The 6 does a great job with the 802's and HTM2, that's what's running those speakers in my setup. I'll be replacing the 6 with three 7's eventually not because I need the extra power but because going monos is something I've always wanted to do. I think I may finally step into the digital high resolution music arena first though and get a Bryston BDP-2. I can get away with 96/24 for the time being by using my Lexicon MC-12 as the DAC then perhaps down the road move to something like the Bryston BDA-2 DAC to get 192/24 but I suppose by then I may replace the Lexicon and that new SSP may do 192/24 thus I still wouldn't need an external DAC.

What did your 7's come spec'd at wattage wise? The Bryston amps always come in higher than their advertised wattages. I've seen some 7's at the high 600 watt range. My 6 is 330 watts on all three channels.

Not sure about Audyssey, it would seem to make sense that they would have to update in order to accomodate the extra channels Atmos will bring to the table.
660 watts for the 7B's, 320 watts for the 6B
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