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post #19111 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Yeah, when Denon came out with the upgrade to Audyssey XT32 for the AVP-A1HDCI & AVR-5308CI, the cost was $1200 alone for the upgrade.

So to get the X4000 for under $1K is a great value IMO.

I know I will offend some people by saying this and gain absolutely nothing, but personally I would buy a Denon AVR any day over any Emotiva pre-pro. Smug and conceited aren't I? That is my honest opinion. No good deeds go unpunished, so I better put on my flame suit.
I do not think you have ever owned or listened to the UMC-200. I owned a Denon 4310.4311 and 4520 amd UMC-200. I no longer own Denon.
The 4520 is a close second and all other Denons aren't close. IMO of course. However I speak from experience.
I also have a flame suit.
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post #19112 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post
Who is they? Placebo effects
Comparison of Audyssey vs MCACC vs YPAO.

https://translate.google.com/transla...rrection.shtml

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post #19113 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM
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I do not think you have ever owned or listened to the UMC-200. I owned a Denon 4310.4311 and 4520 amd UMC-200. I no longer own Denon.
The 4520 is a close second and all other Denons aren't close. IMO of course. However I speak from experience.
I also have a flame suit.
Everyone can see what Audyssey & Dynamic EQ can do for the frequency response.

Post some graphs of what the EMO can do. Everyone is invited to the party.

Let's see how flat and smooth the EMO can do for your speakers.
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post #19114 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
Everyone can see what Audyssey & Dynamic EQ can do for the frequency response.

Post some graphs of what the EMO can do. Everyone is invited to the party.

Let's see how flat and smooth the EMO can do for your speakers.
Have you ever posted a graph of your room? I think not. Unless the graph is plotted in your listening area you have no idea what Audyssey is doing. Many have found it not to their liking except for the sub EQ. It also shoots for a house curve that may or may not be preferred.
No doubt that REQ's change the sound. It is simply a matter of whether or not you like the change. I don't and do not need a graph to tell me that.
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post #19115 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 07:13 PM
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I wouldn't really look at it from a point of view that monos will be potentially better at handling those types of loads but rather what amps in general do. I wouldn't necessarily equate monos with being better than multi-channel amps as a rule of thumb as there are some superbly designed multi-channel amps and I'm sure poorly designed monos on the market. The Anthem P series are monsters as you know with the P5 having 2 power cords . I always chuckle when I think of that amp, that's amazing. Monos in theory offer the obvious signal/channel separation but you now have more power cords to worry about plus a higher electricity bill and added heat to the room plus the extra floor space needed if placing the amps up front with the speakers. If you are a believer that the speaker cable should be as short as possible and that long cable runs should be done via the interconnects then monos are the way to go for that.


Personally I just like the idea and look of monos in a setup with the amp beside the speaker and started the move to all monos last fall. Was there an improvement. Sure but it was more subtle than slap you in the face noticeable and it was predominately in the bass when running my speakers full range because my monos have a lot more power than the stereo amp they replaced. I attribute this (i.e. subtle audible change in performance) to the manufacturer, I use Bryston and Bryston designs their amps to perform the same regardless of the model, the only choice one needs to make is how powerful of an amp do you want. The room is a hell of a lot hotter though after adding the monos
Depending upon the amps, heat dissipation can be significant. I just switched to Bryston as well recently, and the heat gain was noticeable over the McIntosh amps - so much so that I just spent a long weekend installing all my gear in a Middle Atlantic rack in the basement just adjacent to my theater space.
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post #19116 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Depending upon the amps, heat dissipation can be significant. I just switched to Bryston as well recently, and the heat gain was noticeable over the McIntosh amps - so much so that I just spent a long weekend installing all my gear in a Middle Atlantic rack in the basement just adjacent to my theater space.
I haven't posted in a while .... but .... you got rid of the macs?????? what did I miss?

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post #19117 of 19139 Old Yesterday, 08:00 PM
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I haven't posted in a while .... but .... you got rid of the macs?????? what did I miss?
No, I've not posted a lot lately myself...made the switch over the last month.

The Macs may be a bit better (or perhaps it might be more precise to say "different") but the Bryston's are superb in their own right...basically the hobby bug bit, and it was also financially advantageous to make the change.

The Macs also do throw off a light of light in the room, even with the meters off. This was subtly bothering me as well with my projection environment.

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post #19118 of 19139 Old Today, 04:37 AM
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Depending upon the amps, heat dissipation can be significant. I just switched to Bryston as well recently, and the heat gain was noticeable over the McIntosh amps - so much so that I just spent a long weekend installing all my gear in a Middle Atlantic rack in the basement just adjacent to my theater space.
Wow that's quite the move, what made you want to change? I've never heard McIntosh amps before but the general concensus I have been able to put together would make the move a lateral one as they seem to be on par with each other. Man you must have taken a huge hit in the pocket book unless you have a dealer that sells both and they were more than generous in trade in.

What amps did you end up getting and was it just amps or did you replace your other McIntosh gear as well?

I never noticed any appreciable heat with my 4B-SST's and 6B-SST but it's significant with the 28B-SST2's. Since most of the time they are barely idling when I'm watching tv they are running in Class A for most of that thus the heat. Once I crank up the system for a movie or music I notice they cool down a bit as they move into the Class A/B range.

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post #19119 of 19139 Old Today, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
Wow that's quite the move, what made you want to change? I've never heard McIntosh amps before but the general concensus I have been able to put together would make the move a lateral one as they seem to be on par with each other. Man you must have taken a huge hit in the pocket book unless you have a dealer that sells both and they were more than generous in trade in.

What amps did you end up getting and was it just amps or did you replace your other McIntosh gear as well?

I never noticed any appreciable heat with my 4B-SST's and 6B-SST but it's significant with the 28B-SST2's. Since most of the time they are barely idling when I'm watching tv they are running in Class A for most of that thus the heat. Once I crank up the system for a movie or music I notice they cool down a bit as they move into the Class A/B range.
I have a pair of the 7b sst2 monos, a 6b sst2 for the center and surrounds, and the 3b sst2 for rears.

I do a fair amount of tv watching, so they are likely running in class a often, thus the bake shop in my theater.

The MX 151 remains as the processor; I find in intrinsically a much better sounding unit than anything else I've had prior, and Room Perfect works much better for me than Audyssey Pro, and provides greater flexibility with the various curve options you can apply.

It's not to say that CEDIA won't change anything - curious if the 8802 is an improvement sonically, and hopefully McIntosh will have their successor ready, if not for CEDIA, sometime within the next year.

I'd like to hear the new Trinnov box as well.
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post #19120 of 19139 Old Today, 05:31 AM
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I have a pair of the 7b sst2 monos, a 6b sst2 for the center and surrounds, and the 3b sst2 for rears.

I do a fair amount of tv watching, so they are likely running in class a often, thus the bake shop in my theater.

The MX 151 remains as the processor; I find in intrinsically a much better sounding unit than anything else I've had prior, and Room Perfect works much better for me than Audyssey Pro, and provides greater flexibility with the various curve options you can apply.

It's not to say that CEDIA won't change anything - curious if the 8802 is an improvement sonically, and hopefully McIntosh will have their successor ready, if not for CEDIA, sometime within the next year.

I'd like to hear the new Trinnov box as well.

That's a nice combination of amps. Why the 3 and not the 4 for the rears, just curious?

I think now is not the time to be upgrading processors. With Atmos coming into the market this fall plus dts-UHD still being worked on (http://widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=20166) it's probably to early for most SSP manufacturers to come to market with the new tech as they tend to lag behind the receiver market. With CEDIA it will be intresting to see if we can get a peek into what the manufacturers are planning though. I'm also curious about the Altitude but I suspect it'll be way out of my price range at least fully configured. The Datasat LS10 had my eye but since it doesn't have Dirac like the RS20i and the uncertainty of Atmos I've ruled this out.

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post #19121 of 19139 Old Today, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post
Have you ever posted a graph of your room? I think not. Unless the graph is plotted in your listening area you have no idea what Audyssey is doing. Many have found it not to their liking except for the sub EQ. It also shoots for a house curve that may or may not be preferred.
No doubt that REQ's change the sound. It is simply a matter of whether or not you like the change. I don't and do not need a graph to tell me that.
I didn't mean a graph of your room or any specific room. I mean ANY examples just to see what the software can do.

I've posted a few Audyssey graphs from actual measurements taken from other forum members' rooms. I've seen many other Audyssey graphs on AVS & AH. I've also seen 1 graph of ARC done by a forum member. But most of the graphs were for Audyssey. And I see that time and time again, Audyssey consistently did a marvelous job FLATTENING out and smoothing out the frequency response in the rooms. But that just tells us one thing - that Audyssey can flatten and smooth out the frequency response, NOT how it SOUNDS or any personal preferences.

We can also see what Audyssey DYNAMIC EQ (DEQ) does to the already flatten and smooth frequency response graph. DEQ boosts the bass dynamically and variably from 20Hz-200Hz and flattens out the frequency response from 10kHz-20kHz. We see that on the graph.

The graphs I've seen of YPAO and MCACC are underwhelming at best - they look as if nothing were done because the pre and post graphs looked almost identical.

I have never seen a single graph of EMO's RC software (or Lyngdorf, Dirac, Trinnov). So I just wanted to know if someone - anyone has done it to see if they can also flatten out and smooth out the frequency response. But again, it would only tell us the frequency response, not the preference of sound.

Sure, anyone can say one RC software is more preferred. Anyone could say the Sony RC is more preferred than the Lyngdorf (Room-Perfect), Audyssey, ARC, Trinnov, Dirac, etc. Or the MCACC or YPAO is better than Room-Perfect, Trinnov, etc. It's just anyone's word. But it would be more helpful to see why they prefer it based on the graphs. It's not everything, but it is better than nothing.

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post #19122 of 19139 Old Today, 05:47 AM
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That's a nice combination of amps. Why the 3 and not the 4 for the rears, just curious?

I think now is not the time to be upgrading processors. With Atmos coming into the market this fall plus dts-UHD still being worked on (http://widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=20166) it's probably to early for most SSP manufacturers to come to market with the new tech as they tend to lag behind the receiver market. With CEDIA it will be intresting to see if we can get a peek into what the manufacturers are planning though. I'm also curious about the Altitude but I suspect it'll be way out of my price range at least fully configured. The Datasat LS10 had my eye but since it doesn't have Dirac like the RS20i and the uncertainty of Atmos I've ruled this out.
Based on the distance, the 3b is more than sufficient for required output - and as you noted, there is no tradeoff dropping in the line other than power. Frankly, I don't need the 7b's, but I wanted monos for the mains.

Re: processors - I am thinking the same...often, the better prepro manufacturers trail new tech introduction by 6-12 months, so I wonder how much will be shown at CEDIA beyond general consumer gear.

I am making a wild guess that McIntosh will introduce a home theater receiver (personally not interested).

The 151 is so nice, I may keep this for some time...I doubt I will move to Atmos or similar VOG speakers, and for 4k input, I will upgrade my Lumagen when necessary (the paucity of 4k output devices makes this a slow and lazy consideration)

Has anyone heard if Audyssey is planning a next generation of its tech? Room Perfect does a much better job in bass eq, and does not tamp down the highs. If they could fix that, and add user accessible curves to apply after eq (to accommodate the wide range of source recordings), I think it would be a great move forward for them.
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post #19123 of 19139 Old Today, 06:28 AM
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Based on the distance, the 3b is more than sufficient for required output - and as you noted, there is no tradeoff dropping in the line other than power. Frankly, I don't need the 7b's, but I wanted monos for the mains.

Re: processors - I am thinking the same...often, the better prepro manufacturers trail new tech introduction by 6-12 months, so I wonder how much will be shown at CEDIA beyond general consumer gear.

I am making a wild guess that McIntosh will introduce a home theater receiver (personally not interested).

The 151 is so nice, I may keep this for some time...I doubt I will move to Atmos or similar VOG speakers, and for 4k input, I will upgrade my Lumagen when necessary (the paucity of 4k output devices makes this a slow and lazy consideration)

Has anyone heard if Audyssey is planning a next generation of its tech? Room Perfect does a much better job in bass eq, and does not tamp down the highs. If they could fix that, and add user accessible curves to apply after eq (to accommodate the wide range of source recordings), I think it would be a great move forward for them.
Yeah one can get carried away with to much power, I definitely don't need 28's but the deal I was offered was to good to pass up seeing as I had on occasion thought what if The 6 does a great job with the 802's and HTM2, that's what's running those speakers in my setup. I'll be replacing the 6 with three 7's eventually not because I need the extra power but because going monos is something I've always wanted to do. I think I may finally step into the digital high resolution music arena first though and get a Bryston BDP-2. I can get away with 96/24 for the time being by using my Lexicon MC-12 as the DAC then perhaps down the road move to something like the Bryston BDA-2 DAC to get 192/24 but I suppose by then I may replace the Lexicon and that new SSP may do 192/24 thus I still wouldn't need an external DAC.

What did your 7's come spec'd at wattage wise? The Bryston amps always come in higher than their advertised wattages. I've seen some 7's at the high 600 watt range. My 6 is 330 watts on all three channels.

Not sure about Audyssey, it would seem to make sense that they would have to update in order to accomodate the extra channels Atmos will bring to the table.

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post #19124 of 19139 Old Today, 06:32 AM
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Yeah one can get carried away with to much power, I definitely don't need 28's but the deal I was offered was to good to pass up seeing as I had on occasion thought what if The 6 does a great job with the 802's and HTM2, that's what's running those speakers in my setup. I'll be replacing the 6 with three 7's eventually not because I need the extra power but because going monos is something I've always wanted to do. I think I may finally step into the digital high resolution music arena first though and get a Bryston BDP-2. I can get away with 96/24 for the time being by using my Lexicon MC-12 as the DAC then perhaps down the road move to something like the Bryston BDA-2 DAC to get 192/24 but I suppose by then I may replace the Lexicon and that new SSP may do 192/24 thus I still wouldn't need an external DAC.

What did your 7's come spec'd at wattage wise? The Bryston amps always come in higher than their advertised wattages. I've seen some 7's at the high 600 watt range. My 6 is 330 watts on all three channels.

Not sure about Audyssey, it would seem to make sense that they would have to update in order to accomodate the extra channels Atmos will bring to the table.
660 watts for the 7B's, 320 watts for the 6B
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post #19125 of 19139 Old Today, 07:50 AM
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Has anyone heard if Audyssey is planning a next generation of its tech? Room Perfect does a much better job in bass eq, and does not tamp down the highs. If they could fix that, and add user accessible curves to apply after eq (to accommodate the wide range of source recordings), I think it would be a great move forward for them.
If IMAX theaters felt the same as you, they probably would be using Room-Perfect too.

Obviously they don't agree with you since they use Audyssey.

The point is, just because Room-Perfect "works better" for you personally doesn't mean it works better for anyone else.

Do you have any Room-Perfect graphs (either from you or anyone else) that show a better frequency response graph than Audyssey XT32 or Pro?

Perhaps Room-Perfect boosts the bass by 3-6dB and boost the Treble by 3-6dB? Perhaps that sounds great to you, but not necessarily to others. How do we know unless we see the graphs?

You can see from the one graph I posted of Audyssey DEQ. As opposed to the flatter frequency response of Audyssey, DEQ boosts the bass a little and also boosts the treble a little. Although the treble still looked flat on the graph, it was higher than the Audyssey curve, which had the treble gradually tapering downward.
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If IMAX theaters felt the same as you, they probably would be using Room-Perfect too.

Obviously they don't agree with you since they use Audyssey.

The point is, just because Room-Perfect "works better" for you personally doesn't mean it works better for anyone else.

Do you have any Room-Perfect graphs (either from you or anyone else) that show a better frequency response graph than Audyssey XT32 or Pro?

Perhaps Room-Perfect boosts the bass by 3-6dB and boost the Treble by 3-6dB? Perhaps that sounds great to you, but not necessarily to others. How do we know unless we see the graphs?

You can see from the one graph I posted of Audyssey DEQ. As opposed to the flatter frequency response of Audyssey, DEQ boosts the bass a little and also boosts the treble a little. Although the treble still looked flat on the graph, it was higher than the Audyssey curve, which had the treble gradually tapering downward.
I think it has been discussed before that the Audyssey in consumer products is inferior to that in IMAX. Pretty sure I read somewhere.
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post #19127 of 19139 Old Today, 08:16 AM
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I think it has been discussed before that the Audyssey in consumer products is inferior to that in IMAX. Pretty sure I read somewhere.
IMAX uses Audyssey Pro.

But if you look at the frequency response graphs of Audyssey XT32, the next best thing to Audyssey Pro, you see how flat and smooth the frequency responses are. The point is, you cannot get much flatter than flat. Sure +/-1dB is "better" than +/-2dB. But they are still flat.

I believe the key is not in the flat frequency response. The key is the slight boost in the bass and treble.

See, Audyssey and many audiophiles believe that the frequency response should be flat from 20Hz-10kHz, but that the treble from 10kHz-20kHz should TAPER down.

But some of us (myself include) PREFER to have the bass and treble boosted a little.

Again, look at this graph between Audyssey vs Audyssey DEQ:



Based on what I've heard of why some people prefer Room-Perfect or other RC, I believe that some people just don't like a FLAT FR from 20Hz-10kHz and tapering down from 10kHz-20kHz. I'm in the same group. I like my bass and treble boosted a little bit, albeit still remain flat. That is where Audyssey Dynamic EQ (DEQ) comes in.
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Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post
If IMAX theaters felt the same as you, they probably would be using Room-Perfect too.

Obviously they don't agree with you since they use Audyssey.

The point is, just because Room-Perfect "works better" for you personally doesn't mean it works better for anyone else.

Do you have any Room-Perfect graphs (either from you or anyone else) that show a better frequency response graph than Audyssey XT32 or Pro?

Perhaps Room-Perfect boosts the bass by 3-6dB and boost the Treble by 3-6dB? Perhaps that sounds great to you, but not necessarily to others. How do we know unless we see the graphs?

You can see from the one graph I posted of Audyssey DEQ. As opposed to the flatter frequency response of Audyssey, DEQ boosts the bass a little and also boosts the treble a little. Although the treble still looked flat on the graph, it was higher than the Audyssey curve, which had the treble gradually tapering downward.
I don't care that much about graphs, as blasphemous as that sounds on this forum

I am not at all dismissing graphs and the scientific process, but it is far from the final arbiter in this hobby.

I recently had a whole bunch of trees trimmed. The crew pulled a large wood chipper truck in my driveway, and starting grinding away. A tremendous racket as everyone knows.

About 30 feet behind the truck, a worker was using a metal rake to gather small twigs. As I listened, it seemed quite likely that while my ears and brain could make out that faint scraping sound against the cacophony of the chipper, a frequency response chart would not reveal this distinction. In fact, a graph cannot tell you if you're listening to a wood chipper or The Beatles.

Charts and graphs and numbers have their place, but to me do not capture the spectrum of what constitutes an auditory experience.

What I can tell you is I've spent years with Audysey, including xt32 Pro (Denon AVP A1, Denon 4311, Integra 80.3, and Marantz 8801). I had little expectation that the 151, which my dealer provided for a week evaluation, would be that much different than the 8801. But that was not the case. RP provided a significant advantage. It has much more horsepower than Audyssey (dedicated processors for each channel), works at a higher sample rate, and provides custom curves for different source material. Low frequencies are more articulated and balanced, high frequencies are clearer, so the soundstage becomes more articulated.

It's quite possible that Trinnov or Dirac are even better, but I've not had a chance to listen in home.

Your ears are the most valuable aspect to the experience. I'm sure both Room Perfect and Audyssey have their limits and faults, but when you consider the myriad of different rooms, playback equipment, test equipment, inexperienced skill sets, and hearing differences, preference is as valuable, if not more so, than reference.

It is in just about everything else in life, so this hobby is not immune from that. Unless there was a mic connected post-brain processing, it is not the complete picture IMO.
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post #19129 of 19139 Old Today, 08:48 AM
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If IMAX theaters felt the same as you, they probably would be using Room-Perfect too.

Obviously they don't agree with you since they use Audyssey.

The point is, just because Room-Perfect "works better" for you personally doesn't mean it works better for anyone else.

Do you have any Room-Perfect graphs (either from you or anyone else) that show a better frequency response graph than Audyssey XT32 or Pro?

Perhaps Room-Perfect boosts the bass by 3-6dB and boost the Treble by 3-6dB? Perhaps that sounds great to you, but not necessarily to others. How do we know unless we see the graphs?

You can see from the one graph I posted of Audyssey DEQ. As opposed to the flatter frequency response of Audyssey, DEQ boosts the bass a little and also boosts the treble a little. Although the treble still looked flat on the graph, it was higher than the Audyssey curve, which had the treble gradually tapering downward.
Accu,

I love your focus on the empirical data. I tend to agree with you that the lack of empirical measurement data to back the claims that XXXX (insert the user's favorite flavor of room correction or self-calibration) is better that Audyssey XT32 belies what is likely a simple placebo effect and adaptive preference on the part of that user.

That said -- I have seen you set aside Anthem Room Correction as something more or less on par with Audyssey (not sure which flavor). Is this because ARC actually provides the empirical data/charts pre and post calibration as part of its process?

What about DIRAC? What are your thoughts on that solution?

Dedicated Theater Room Setup (on a reasonable budget):
Sony VPL-HW55ES + VAPEX 120" Fixed Frame Screen
Denon X4000 (used as Pre-Pro) + Sherbourn PA 7-350 + Velodyne SMS-1
B&W Nautilus 803 (L/R) + B&W CDM-CNT + DefTech BPX + BP2X (surrounds)
Seaton SubM HP+ Master and Slave (boom!)
Sources: PS4 + PS3 + Xbox 360 + Tosh HD-XA2 + DirecTV HR21-200

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post #19130 of 19139 Old Today, 09:50 AM
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I don't care that much about graphs, as blasphemous as that sounds on this forum

I am not at all dismissing graphs and the scientific process, but it is far from the final arbiter in this hobby.

I recently had a whole bunch of trees trimmed. The crew pulled a large wood chipper truck in my driveway, and starting grinding away. A tremendous racket as everyone knows.

About 30 feet behind the truck, a worker was using a metal rake to gather small twigs. As I listened, it seemed quite likely that while my ears and brain could make out that faint scraping sound against the cacophony of the chipper, a frequency response chart would not reveal this distinction. In fact, a graph cannot tell you if you're listening to a wood chipper or The Beatles.

Charts and graphs and numbers have their place, but to me do not capture the spectrum of what constitutes an auditory experience.

What I can tell you is I've spent years with Audysey, including xt32 Pro (Denon AVP A1, Denon 4311, Integra 80.3, and Marantz 8801). I had little expectation that the 151, which my dealer provided for a week evaluation, would be that much different than the 8801. But that was not the case. RP provided a significant advantage. It has much more horsepower than Audyssey (dedicated processors for each channel), works at a higher sample rate, and provides custom curves for different source material. Low frequencies are more articulated and balanced, high frequencies are clearer, so the soundstage becomes more articulated.

It's quite possible that Trinnov or Dirac are even better, but I've not had a chance to listen in home.

Your ears are the most valuable aspect to the experience. I'm sure both Room Perfect and Audyssey have their limits and faults, but when you consider the myriad of different rooms, playback equipment, test equipment, inexperienced skill sets, and hearing differences, preference is as valuable, if not more so, than reference.

It is in just about everything else in life, so this hobby is not immune from that. Unless there was a mic connected post-brain processing, it is not the complete picture IMO.
Well, that's fine. And someone who uses Sony's RC or MCACC or YPAO could say the same - they don't care about graphs - their RC sound better than Room-Perfect and everything else because they say so.

Of course we know that graphs and FR don't mean everything. But it helps explain a little bit about why we prefer some things. If you like better bass, the graph will show more bass level. If you like better treble, the graph will show more treble. It's just a tool for us to help explain to us and others why we may prefer one sound over another.

But if people prefer Sony's room correction or Pioneer's room correction or Yamaha's room correction or McIntosh's room correction just because they feel like it, that's fine too.
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These are just examples found online.

Lyngdorf RoomPerfect. Blue is Pure Direct:


Dirac. Blue is Pure Direct:


Trinnov. Yellow is Pure Direct:



Yamaha YPAO. Red is Pure Direct:



Anthem ARC. Red is Pure Direct. Green is ARC:



Audyssey. Red is Pure Direct:




Pioneer MCACC. Red is Pure Direct:
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Accu,

I love your focus on the empirical data. I tend to agree with you that the lack of empirical measurement data to back the claims that XXXX (insert the user's favorite flavor of room correction or self-calibration) is better that Audyssey XT32 belies what is likely a simple placebo effect and adaptive preference on the part of that user.

That said -- I have seen you set aside Anthem Room Correction as something more or less on par with Audyssey (not sure which flavor). Is this because ARC actually provides the empirical data/charts pre and post calibration as part of its process?

What about DIRAC? What are your thoughts on that solution?
ARC seems to do a good job with flattening out the frequency response.

Dirac seems to flatten out the FR below 200Hz, but doesn't seem to do that much beyond that.

It looks to be the goal of all these RC is to flatten out the FR from 20Hz-10kHz and taper down after 10kHz. I prefer to boost the 20Hz-200Hz & 10kHz-20kHz region just a bit.
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I am trying to create a good 3.1 set up for my first home theater set up.


If anyone has any advice I would be very grateful, thank you so much. Also my front left and right speakers have to be in wall to keep my wife happy. Thank you in advance for your time and help

Set up:
Center: B&W CM Centre II
Left & Right:B&W CWM7.4
Bass: REL T7BLA
Receiver: Marantz SR5009

Let me know if you actually get your CMC2. Word from my rep is that there will be an update to the CM line in the next month or 2. I was unable to get a CMC2 when I upgraded my speakers due to national backorder. I'm anxiously awaiting the newer update to finish out my front 3.






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Ok, that's good to know. I am still wondering though if seperates are better or avr/amp. If one is better than other, given my setup, what brand/models recomended...and also ahould I wait for hdcp 2.2 to be released?

If you haven't looked at Emotiva I would suggest giving them a close look. They make really good amps that rival companies at 2-3 times the price. I bought an XPA-5 (200w x 5 channels) and that thing has more than enough oomph to drive my CM5 speakers. Also with Atmos and HDMI 2.0 looming, I would look at getting a good amp (XPA-5) and a cheaper, good enough for now AVR or pre-amp. When 4k, and Atmos get finalized then you can see what's available and get a top end pre-amp. With separates you can just upgrade the preamp when new formats or interface options become available. It will be cheaper then having to get a flagship AVR every 3-5 years. I opted for the Emotiva UMC-200. It only has 4 HDMI inputs, and emotivas own form of room correction called EMO-Q. It is a very nice unit and my system has never sounded better. I got the UMC-200 to "hold me over" and it is so good, that I may not need to upgrade for a few years.

-Morfious
Panasonic 65ZT60 Plasma
Emotiva UMC-200
Emotiva XPA-5
B&W (CMC2, CM5)
SVS SB13 Ultra Sub (Planned Upgrade)
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Does anyone have any experience with inwalls or onwalls? Either B&W or any other brand (e.g. Focal).

Thanks.

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post #19135 of 19139 Old Today, 05:24 PM
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Based on the distance, the 3b is more than sufficient for required output - and as you noted, there is no tradeoff dropping in the line other than power. Frankly, I don't need the 7b's, but I wanted monos for the mains.Re: processors - I am thinking the same...often, the better prepro manufacturers trail new tech introduction by 6-12 months, so I wonder how much will be shown at CEDIA beyond general consumer gear. I am making a wild guess that McIntosh will introduce a home theater receiver (personally not interested).

The 151 is so nice, I may keep this for some time...I doubt I will move to Atmos or similar VOG speakers, and for 4k input, I will upgrade my Lumagen when necessary (the paucity of 4k output devices makes this a slow and lazy consideration)

Has anyone heard if Audyssey is planning a next generation of its tech? Room Perfect does a much better job in bass eq, and does not tamp down the highs. If they could fix that, and add user accessible curves to apply after eq (to accommodate the wide range of source recordings), I think it would be a great move forward for them.
Heard Lyngdorf might introduce a pre/pro with ATMOS + Auro 3D and of course room perfect in 2015!

I really don't like the look of the McIntosh sorry
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post #19136 of 19139 Old Today, 05:27 PM
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Does anyone have any experience with inwalls or onwalls? Either B&W or any other brand (e.g. Focal).

Thanks.
Yes, have two in ceiling speakers from B&W http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Downlo...info_sheet.pdf

Fairly older speakers but still sound great
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How about using 805D2 for Atmos!
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post #19138 of 19139 Old Today, 05:28 PM
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Heard Lyngdorf might introduce a pre/pro with ATMOS + Auro 3D and of course room perfect in 2015!

I really don't like the look of the McIntosh sorry
That would be interesting...are you saying they may be talking about it at CEDIA?
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post #19139 of 19139 Old Today, 05:29 PM
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That would be interesting...are you saying they may be talking about it at CEDIA?
Maybe, please let us know if you go to CEDIA
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