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post #19171 of 19197 Old 08-25-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Based on the power draw of my 4Bsst2 vs my Parasound Halo A31 I have to assume some notable class A bias. Also Thrangs note of significant heat from the 7Bsst2s vs the 600 watt Mac monos make me suspect a fair bit of class A bias.

Not necessarily, I think most people would be surprised at how few watts they actually use for probably 90+% of our system usage. Just curious though, are the A31's pure Class A or pure Class A/B?


I have run two 4B's and a 6B for years and never noticed any appreciable heat from either and my 6B has a shelf above it with no more than a finger's width of clearance so very poor ventilation as it ventilates from the top and doesn't have the luxury of the external heat sinks at the sides like the 3, 4, 7, 14 and 28 and it only ever gets mildly warm.

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post #19172 of 19197 Old 08-25-2014, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
Not necessarily, I think most people would be surprised at how few watts they actually use for probably 90+% of our system usage. Just curious though, are the A31's pure Class A or pure Class A/B?


I have run two 4B's and a 6B for years and never noticed any appreciable heat from either and my 6B has a shelf above it with no more than a finger's width of clearance so very poor ventilation as it ventilates from the top and doesn't have the luxury of the external heat sinks at the sides like the 3, 4, 7, 14 and 28 and it only ever gets mildly warm.
The A31 has a class A bias of around 7-8 watts meaning at idle up to this it will be only in class A operation. When it gets above this level it shifts to AB, to my understanding. The two channel A21 has a higher class A bias of around 10 watts but generates more heat than the A31. I guess thinking this through, the amount of class A bias does not explain all the heat output.
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post #19173 of 19197 Old 08-25-2014, 04:59 PM
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This is such a joke!

"Mr Smith found an almost new pair of 1-meter Transparent Balanced Reference Interconnect listed on Audiogon at a great price. He jumped at the chance. When he hooked them up to his Krell system, though, they just didn't sound right. He was almost ready to send them back for a refund when his friend asked him if he had the cables calibrated for his system.
“Calibrated? What?!”
“Call Transparent, and tell them your serial number. They’ll know what components were intended to be used with your cable.”


Mr. Smith called Transparent. He told Demos, Transparent’s customer service guru, the model and serial number of his cables and told him he had a Krell system.
Transparent called Mr. Smith back with the info: “When we built those cables, they were optimized for an Audio Research preamp and amp. No wonder the cables didn’t sound right in your system. The ARC system has totally different impedance characteristics from Krell components. You need to take your cables to a Transparent dealer and have them returned to us for calibration.


You have 2 options: basic calibration or certification.”
“What’s the difference and what does each cost? “ Mr. Smith asked.
“Basic calibration for Reference Balanced Interconnects would be $350. Certification includes calibration, new packaging, and a warranty. The warranty will give you upgrade privileges and future calibrations will be no charge.

Certification for your cables would be $700."
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post #19174 of 19197 Old 08-25-2014, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post
What's your observation of the 4Bsst2 vs. the A31?
Using a Kil-o-watt meter the A31 runs around 60-70 watt if memory serves (which was much lower than expected) where the 4B was between 150-190 watts both at idle or low level music.
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post #19175 of 19197 Old 08-25-2014, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
This is such a joke!

"Mr Smith found an almost new pair of 1-meter Transparent Balanced Reference Interconnect listed on Audiogon at a great price. He jumped at the chance. When he hooked them up to his Krell system, though, they just didn't sound right. He was almost ready to send them back for a refund when his friend asked him if he had the cables calibrated for his system.
“Calibrated? What?!”
“Call Transparent, and tell them your serial number. They’ll know what components were intended to be used with your cable.”


Mr. Smith called Transparent. He told Demos, Transparent’s customer service guru, the model and serial number of his cables and told him he had a Krell system.
Transparent called Mr. Smith back with the info: “When we built those cables, they were optimized for an Audio Research preamp and amp. No wonder the cables didn’t sound right in your system. The ARC system has totally different impedance characteristics from Krell components. You need to take your cables to a Transparent dealer and have them returned to us for calibration.


You have 2 options: basic calibration or certification.”
“What’s the difference and what does each cost? “ Mr. Smith asked.
“Basic calibration for Reference Balanced Interconnects would be $350. Certification includes calibration, new packaging, and a warranty. The warranty will give you upgrade privileges and future calibrations will be no charge.

Certification for your cables would be $700."
I remember reading this somewhere not too long ago. I was amused.
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post #19176 of 19197 Old 08-25-2014, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
This is such a joke!

"Mr Smith found an almost new pair of 1-meter Transparent Balanced Reference Interconnect listed on Audiogon at a great price. He jumped at the chance. When he hooked them up to his Krell system, though, they just didn't sound right. He was almost ready to send them back for a refund when his friend asked him if he had the cables calibrated for his system.
“Calibrated? What?!”
“Call Transparent, and tell them your serial number. They’ll know what components were intended to be used with your cable.”


Mr. Smith called Transparent. He told Demos, Transparent’s customer service guru, the model and serial number of his cables and told him he had a Krell system.
Transparent called Mr. Smith back with the info: “When we built those cables, they were optimized for an Audio Research preamp and amp. No wonder the cables didn’t sound right in your system. The ARC system has totally different impedance characteristics from Krell components. You need to take your cables to a Transparent dealer and have them returned to us for calibration.


You have 2 options: basic calibration or certification.”
“What’s the difference and what does each cost? “ Mr. Smith asked.
“Basic calibration for Reference Balanced Interconnects would be $350. Certification includes calibration, new packaging, and a warranty. The warranty will give you upgrade privileges and future calibrations will be no charge.

Certification for your cables would be $700."
Wow, that is hilarious. I wonder if he explained the process of calibrating cables and what tools he used to reach the optimal level of calibration.
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post #19177 of 19197 Old Yesterday, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post
This is such a joke!

"Mr Smith found an almost new pair of 1-meter Transparent Balanced Reference Interconnect listed on Audiogon at a great price. He jumped at the chance. When he hooked them up to his Krell system, though, they just didn't sound right. He was almost ready to send them back for a refund when his friend asked him if he had the cables calibrated for his system.
“Calibrated? What?!”
“Call Transparent, and tell them your serial number. They’ll know what components were intended to be used with your cable.”


Mr. Smith called Transparent. He told Demos, Transparent’s customer service guru, the model and serial number of his cables and told him he had a Krell system.
Transparent called Mr. Smith back with the info: “When we built those cables, they were optimized for an Audio Research preamp and amp. No wonder the cables didn’t sound right in your system. The ARC system has totally different impedance characteristics from Krell components. You need to take your cables to a Transparent dealer and have them returned to us for calibration.


You have 2 options: basic calibration or certification.”
“What’s the difference and what does each cost? “ Mr. Smith asked.
“Basic calibration for Reference Balanced Interconnects would be $350. Certification includes calibration, new packaging, and a warranty. The warranty will give you upgrade privileges and future calibrations will be no charge.

Certification for your cables would be $700."
Ah yes, good ole Transparent. The company which charges astronomical prices yet does not publish anything about their "tech", no white papaers that I have ever seen, no patents, etc. to even try and explain/justify any of those costs.
Their upcoming flagship Magnum Opus is even calibrated/optomized for the rooms average temperture which of course more than justifies the $30k upcharge over the current Opus


Last edited by Rod#S; Yesterday at 05:24 AM.
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post #19178 of 19197 Old Yesterday, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Using a Kil-o-watt meter the A31 runs around 60-70 watt if memory serves (which was much lower than expected) where the 4B was between 150-190 watts both at idle or low level music.
Yeah the Brystons due consume a fair bit of juice at idle. According to the manuals these are the idle numbers:

3B-SST2 - 127 watts
4B-SST2 - 170 watts
6B-SST2 - 225 watts
7B-SST2 - 215 watts
28B-SST2 - 215 watts


Last edited by Rod#S; Yesterday at 06:07 AM.
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post #19179 of 19197 Old Yesterday, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Using a Kil-o-watt meter the A31 runs around 60-70 watt if memory serves (which was much lower than expected) where the 4B was between 150-190 watts both at idle or low level music.
How does sound compare?

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post #19180 of 19197 Old Yesterday, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post
How does sound compare?
I have not compared. The 4B runs my L&R where the A31 does my center and surrounds. I know I need to do an AB comparison at some point. Of course it will be discounted because it won't be ABX
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post #19181 of 19197 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
I have not compared. The 4B runs my L&R where the A31 does my center and surrounds. I know I need to do an AB comparison at some point. Of course it will be discounted because it won't be ABX
Would still love your opinion if you ever get a chance to compare them. Thanks.

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post #19182 of 19197 Old Yesterday, 10:41 PM
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Thank you Patrick for such sage and timely advice regarding updating the software in my DB1.

Factually the software could well be the culprit; as mine is of the earliest available. I have downloaded the latest with attendant instructions, and will do the upgrade tomorrow. Hopefully, this will do the job.

Cheers,
Alan
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post #19183 of 19197 Old Today, 01:26 AM
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New to the forum.

We've had our CM10's for about two weeks now. They are setup in a 5.1 configuration. Music is our priority.
I know they aren't the top of the line of anything, but we are very happy.
I put on Hotel California, turned it up, and almost made the wife cry. (She's seen them in concert 4 times over the years)
Justified.

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post #19184 of 19197 Old Today, 05:12 AM
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Introducing- newCMseries

Check out our Facebook feed for more information
https://www.facebook.com/BowersWilkins
Attached Images
File Type: jpg newCM6.jpg (23.8 KB, 7 views)
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post #19185 of 19197 Old Today, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Introducing- newCMseries

Check out our Facebook feed for more information
https://www.facebook.com/BowersWilkins
A personal peeve...I am tired of manufacturers trying to push Facebook or Twitter hits when they have an otherwise functioning website.

I knew the concept jumped the shark a few years ago when Best Buy took out full 30 second TV spots simply to sell the idea of going to their social media sites - an odd reliance on traditional media to try and prop up a new media approach.

I have a 18 and 25 year old, and I've asked them and any of their friends that stop by if social media affects their buying decisions, or if they use it so tell their friends about some cool new product. Their facial expressions indicated they felt sorry for me and my obvious mis-wired little brain.

I work off and on in the web marketing industry, and there is a highly manufactured effort to sell managed services relating to everything from posts, to tweets, to reputation management, to hyperlocal, to whatever...but it is largely a manufactured need, and many companies right now scramble to participate so they're not caught lagging a competitor, not because they know or understand that it actually helps their business.

So when the B&W web site proper is ready to talk about the new line, I'll take a look!

(Wow, this almost qualifies as a rant, and I haven't even had my first cup of coffee!)
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Last edited by thrang; Today at 05:46 AM.
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post #19186 of 19197 Old Today, 06:47 AM
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I know looks are very subjective and should come second to sound but those look terrible. Nevertheless, the CM line has amazing sound quality and I'm looking forward to listening to this new model.

PSN ID: javant86

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post #19187 of 19197 Old Today, 07:35 AM
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Kal and Mudcat

Your use of the "like" feature in reference to my mini-rant about the use of social media sites for misguided manufacturer marketing is, of course, ironically using a lazy, one click functionality to express admiration or agreement that requires no real engagement, qualitative discourse or intellectual effort from either of you and harkens directly to the social media scourge that I have railed so eloquently against!

However, since I'd like to reach 200 likes by year-end for some yes understood sense of personal accomplishment, it's very much appreciated!

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post #19188 of 19197 Old Today, 07:39 AM
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FB does work

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
A personal peeve...I am tired of manufacturers trying to push Facebook or Twitter hits when they have an otherwise functioning website.

I knew the concept jumped the shark a few years ago when Best Buy took out full 30 second TV spots simply to sell the idea of going to their social media sites - an odd reliance on traditional media to try and prop up a new media approach.

I have a 18 and 25 year old, and I've asked them and any of their friends that stop by if social media affects their buying decisions, or if they use it so tell their friends about some cool new product. Their facial expressions indicated they felt sorry for me and my obvious mis-wired little brain.

I work off and on in the web marketing industry, and there is a highly manufactured effort to sell managed services relating to everything from posts, to tweets, to reputation management, to hyperlocal, to whatever...but it is largely a manufactured need, and many companies right now scramble to participate so they're not caught lagging a competitor, not because they know or understand that it actually helps their business.

So when the B&W web site proper is ready to talk about the new line, I'll take a look!

(Wow, this almost qualifies as a rant, and I haven't even had my first cup of coffee!)
I actually learned about the new CM series via FB, then went to the B&W site for more info. They are, in fact, listed now on the B&W web site. So, for me, the FB post worked...

Brad
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post #19189 of 19197 Old Today, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Blindamood View Post
I actually learned about the new CM series via FB, then went to the B&W site for more info. They are, in fact, listed now on the B&W web site. So, for me, the FB post worked...
So it was actually pointless, all they needed to do was post a link to a web page initially which is where you ended up. The

This is what I'm saying - in these instances, a social media site largely directs you back to the main site, so simply use the main site.

Or they are filled with mind-numbing spiel from third party companies paid to make believe they know the product or industries (I am generalizing of course, but there is a lot of that going on)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
So it was actually pointless, all they needed to do was post a link to a web page initially which is where you ended up. The

This is what I'm saying - in these instances, a social media site largely directs you back to the main site, so simply use the main site.

Or they are filled with mind-numbing spiel from third party companies paid to make believe they know the product or industries (I am generalizing of course, but there is a lot of that going on)
The difference here is 'push' vs. 'pull'...I don't often visit the B&W site, so I would have no idea a new model line was launched. By posting to FB, I was notified in my feed, with no effort on my part. What works for some, does not work for all...YMMV.

Brad
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post #19191 of 19197 Old Today, 08:21 AM
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Thumbs down CM10 and CMC2

Well i just paid off my CMC2 and close to paying off the CM10s and now I see new versions are out. Does anyone know anything about the new models? Should I try and return the versions I bought for the S2 models? I wonder if the MSRP has also increased? Damn it I hate when you buy something right before a new model comes out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Kal and Mudcat

Your use of the "like" feature in reference to my mini-rant about the use of social media sites for misguided manufacturer marketing is, of course, ironically using a lazy, one click functionality to express admiration or agreement that requires no real engagement, qualitative discourse or intellectual effort from either of you and harkens directly to the social media scourge that I have railed so eloquently against!

However, since I'd like to reach 200 likes by year-end for some yes understood sense of personal accomplishment, it's very much appreciated!

I'll see you and raise you. At the expense of getting a warning for being OT.

I am sick of commercials. A 30 minute TV show is about 15 minutes of commercials. No need to try and get interested in a sports program or movie on anything but HBO, Showtime, etc. Just as things get interesting a commercial interrupts.
Our local news is always plugging an upcoming news event. Of course you have to sit through another 5 minutes or more of commercials before the news story is presented. You then find a 15 to 30 second blip about the story that you waited so patiently to watch.

I would support a nationwide launch of boycotting of the products that advertise so much.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eandytemp View Post
Well i just paid off my CMC2 and close to paying off the CM10s and now I see new versions are out. Does anyone know anything about the new models? Should I try and return the versions I bought for the S2 models? I wonder if the MSRP has also increased? Damn it I hate when you buy something right before a new model comes out.
If you're happy with what you have, then leave it at that. No need to upgrade.

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
----------------------------------------
Sony 34XBR960, Onkyo TX-NR414, Sony PS3, Athena Point 5 Mk II (center and fronts), Wharfedale WH-2 (rears), Polk PSW10
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post #19194 of 19197 Old Today, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eandytemp View Post
Well i just paid off my CMC2 and close to paying off the CM10s and now I see new versions are out. Does anyone know anything about the new models? Should I try and return the versions I bought for the S2 models? I wonder if the MSRP has also increased? Damn it I hate when you buy something right before a new model comes out.
Since the CMC2 S2 does not have a bullet tweeter (which seems like a serious omission), off the cuff I don't know that you'll be missing much. I guess it depends on how much tweeter placement colors the sound. Most of the differences I've noted between the CM9 vs. CM10 seem to be in the high end and I attribute that to the tweeter placement. Now I could listen to them and the CM S2 may be significantly better. But my immediate gut reaction is that you wouldn't see a huge leap updating (more incremental at best). If they had produced a CMC3 S2 with the bullet tweeter then my instinct would be to trade the CMC2 for it. Again an actual listen may yield differences on the CMC2 S2 that better match it to the CM10 (personally I think the CMC2 matches the CM9 better than CM10).

I'm sure the S2 series is excellent overall. I am baffled about the CMC2 S2 though. Front soundstage cohesion is so important and it seems like they are compromising this right out of the gate. Or maybe the tweeter location isn't as important as I think it is. Either way you have great speakers and if you enjoy them, then why worry. I plan on keeping my CM speakers a very long time. They never cease to bring a smile to my face.

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Thanks jeahrens, I kind of feel / see the same thing concerning the CMC2 S2. Maybe a bullet tweeter might have placed it more in line with the CM10, however I am very happy with the CM10s and the CMC2 as well and think they compliment each other. Hopefully I can audition the S2 soon and see if I can tell any difference.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eandytemp View Post
Thanks jeahrens, I kind of feel / see the same thing concerning the CMC2 S2. Maybe a bullet tweeter might have placed it more in line with the CM10, however I am very happy with the CM10s and the CMC2 as well and think they compliment each other. Hopefully I can audition the S2 soon and see if I can tell any difference.
Well I should clarify my opinion. Although I do feel the CMC2 sonically matches the CM9 better, that doesn't mean I feel the CM10/CMC2 combination is in any way bad. The slightly more compressed highs of the CMC2 just call attention to themselves in that pairing. The CM9 has the same shortcoming, so the 2 just blend better to me (very seamless).

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post #19197 of 19197 Old Today, 10:18 AM
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Looks like the CM9 S2 gets a new tweeter. Nothing mentioned of crossover changes, so I am wondering if I could swap in the new tweeter to my CM9.
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