B&W Owner's Thread - Page 659 - AVS Forum
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post #19741 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 01:48 PM
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If one were to go with the CM5S2's up front, could I continue to use the HTM4D2 with them? Would this be a horrible matchup? I just haven't been all that happy with the sound I have been hearing from the current and older CM series centers.
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post #19742 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanquiuxo View Post
I'm using a pair of old Sony bookshelf speakers (model number is in my sig). Nothing to write home about, obviously. My set up is in my bedroom as well and it's about the same size as yours. Was thinking of getting M-1s but I'm waiting to move to a new house, which will happen soonish...
I like them they did not cost that a lot money and they sound good.
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post #19743 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Randyman View Post
If one were to go with the CM5S2's up front, could I continue to use the HTM4D2 with them? Would this be a horrible matchup? I just haven't been all that happy with the sound I have been hearing from the current and older CM series centers.
If it was me, I would go with CMCS2 or S1, the HTM4D2 805 or 804 diamonds.
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post #19744 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 02:29 PM
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real curious how the newer CM6 S2 models perform? Was considering these over Monitor Audio GX100 monitors and GXC350 centre.

Employing as fronts along with CM Centre 2 S2
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post #19745 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post
real curious how the newer CM6 S2 models perform? Was considering these over Monitor Audio GX100 monitors and GXC350 centre.

Employing as fronts along with CM Centre 2 S2
I am absolutely loving them, but it's very subjective (especially in this price range of entry-level audiophile speakers). I've read reviews of people who say they sound "muddy" and undefined, but I find them to be the exact opposite. I love their accuracy and detail, especially in a smaller size speaker. I admit, however, that I've never heard the GX100s, so I can't really make a comparison. The CMC2 is a great center and I have no complaints about it as well.

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post #19746 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post
Are you using a sub in your system?
Yes...see my sig.

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post #19747 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acerox
I just saw your post about the CMC2 S2. Were you able to make a side by side comparison by the CMC2 S1? I recently got the CMC2 S1, and I am also considering moving to the S2, but I don't know if it is worth it.
Acerox, sorry for posting this private message. I am too new here to respond to private messages but I am able to receive them apprently.

Post mentioned: B&W Owner's Thread

I did do a side by side with the CMC2 S1 and S2. I didn't post about it because it wasn't very scientific, just my ears. The S1 sounds fine with the CM9s and matches them well. It's still lacking on the high end in my opinion and too heavy on the bass in my opinion, but the bass issue is solved with an 80Hz crossover. The highs can't quite be solved, even with EQ as I've tried.

The S2 really is an all around better sounding speaker, especially with the CM10. In my testing I did find that both speakers sound much better above the TV than below it. Maybe it gives more vertical dispersion because that's what it is designed to do.

If you have S2 fronts (or CM10 S1) then definitely go for the CMC2 S2 if you can. It's a huge difference in transparency. I would 'notice' my CMC2 all the time, but I rarely notice the CMC2S2 unless I pull myself out of the action to gaze in awe of a spectacular center channel speaker.
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post #19748 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
Yes...see my sig.
Okay, then setting your front L/R, Center, or Surrounds to large will defeat the purpose of using your subwoofer in the first place.

Setting those speakers to large basically means no bass management, and no LFE from your awesome Hsu subwoofer.

Set your crossover at 80Hz and your speakers to "small", then come back and let us know how that sounds.

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Last edited by [Irishman]; 10-28-2014 at 06:11 PM.
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post #19749 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post
real curious how the newer CM6 S2 models perform? Was considering these over Monitor Audio GX100 monitors and GXC350 centre.

Employing as fronts along with CM Centre 2 S2
Quote:
Originally Posted by yanquiuxo View Post
I am absolutely loving them, but it's very subjective (especially in this price range of entry-level audiophile speakers). I've read reviews of people who say they sound "muddy" and undefined, but I find them to be the exact opposite. I love their accuracy and detail, especially in a smaller size speaker. I admit, however, that I've never heard the GX100s, so I can't really make a comparison. The CMC2 is a great center and I have no complaints about it as well.
this is good. thanks

The Monitor Audio GX100's and CM6-S2 are fairly equally priced. Hence I'm very curious to actual sound differences, especially whether the B&W's "bullet" type tweeter [noticeably] exceeds Monitor Audio's "ribbon" type tweeter? I know the GX100 yields very nice mid-range/mid-bass

Last edited by WestCoastD; 10-28-2014 at 09:17 PM.
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post #19750 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post
this is good. thanks

The Monitor Audio GX100's and CM6-S2 are fairly equally priced. I'm very curious to actual sound differences, especially whether the B&W's "bullet" type tweeter [noticeably] exceeds Monitor Audio's "ribbon" type tweeter? I know the GX100 yields very nice mid-range/mid-bass
I don't know if "exceeds" would be the proper word to describe the CM6 tweeter vs the ribbon tweeter of the GX100. They're different that's for certain. Many listeners really enjoy the ribbon tweeter whether it is incorporated in a Monitor Audio loudspeaker or otherwise. The level of detail is amazing and they're not fatiguing (ribbon tweeters that is).

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post #19751 of 19770 Old 10-28-2014, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
Really- work the rack and not the other way around. Can't you mount your display on the wall and use your top shelf for a better center? You don't need to run the cables in the wall. I conceal mycables with a cable strip you can pick up at Best Buy. Painted wall color.

Folks are being sweet here. The CM center is crap. I know I have it my bedroom with CM5s. I tolerate it as for a lazy evening in bed for an occasional TV movie or Nik at nite it's fine.

Your front speakers are much better and deserve the CMC2. Seriously.

Hang the display already and get a better center. But that's just my opinion of course .

Rick
Trust me, I've done my research... Can't hang the display as I have a large window behind it. Also can't raise the monitor more with the back stand... I even tried to modify the rack but my carpenter examined it and said it is not possible to lower the shelf....

I'm screwed, big time.
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post #19752 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 08:48 AM
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Hello, i'm looking for Center, please give me some advice about center: CM centre 2 S2 or HTM1? i read spec that CM2S2 is better in high-frequency, newer techologies (may be clearer and filler in room).
thanks.
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post #19753 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post
Okay, then setting your front L/R, Center, or Surrounds to large will defeat the purpose of using your subwoofer in the first place.

Setting those speakers to large basically means no bass management, and no LFE from your awesome Hsu subwoofer.

Set your crossover at 80Hz and your speakers to "small", then come back and let us know how that sounds.
L/R and surrounds are set to small, crossover is set to 80hz, and center *was* set to small...but I changed it to large. When set to small, it sounds like crap. Dialog sounds distant. Much brighter and better balanced when set to large. I'm still getting output from the sub...

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post #19754 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
L/R and surrounds are set to small, crossover is set to 80hz, and center *was* set to small...but I changed it to large. When set to small, it sounds like crap. Dialog sounds distant. Much brighter and better balanced when set to large. I'm still getting output from the sub...
I set everything back to small and played around with the channel level of the center...it helps a bit. Still not great, but better.

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
----------------------------------------
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post #19755 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khactuyen View Post
Hello, i'm looking for Center, please give me some advice about center: CM centre 2 S2 or HTM1? i read spec that CM2S2 is better in high-frequency, newer techologies (may be clearer and filler in room).
thanks.
What does the rest of your system consist of? The center channel is the most important speaker when it comes to movies. Far less important if you only listen to music.

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post #19756 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 01:10 PM
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was checking specs on CM Centre-2 S2, noticed weight is listed at 41.0lbs? Could'nt be correct? Should'nt it be somewhere near 20lbs to 25lbs?

Specs from B&W web-site:
Woven Kevlar
Flowport
Technical features Nautilus tube loaded Decoupled Double Dome aluminium tweeter
Kevlar® brand fibre FST midrange
Flowport™
Description 3-way vented-box system
Drive units 1x ø25mm (1 in) Decoupled Double Dome aluminium high-frequency
1x ø100mm (4 in) Kevlar® cone FST midrange
2x ø165mm (6.5 in) Paper/Kevlar® cone bass
Frequency range -6dB at 45Hz and 50kHz
Frequency response 50Hz - 28kHz ±3dB
Dispersion Within 2dB of reference response
Horizontal: over 60º arc
Vertical: over 10º arc
Sensitivity 89dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Harmonic distortion 2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 90Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 120Hz - 20kHz
Nominal impedance 8Ω (minimum 3Ω)
Crossover frequencies 350Hz, 4kHz
Recommended amplifier power 30W - 200W into 8V on unclipped programme
Max. recommended cable impedance 0,1 Ω
Dimensions Height: 225mm (8.6 in)
Width: 590mm (23.2 in)
Depth: 285mm (11.2 in) cabinet only
301mm (11.9 in) including grille and terminals
Net weight 18.7kg (41.1 lb)
Finishes
Cabinet: Rosenut
Gloss Black
Satin White
Grille: Black
Grey (Satin White only)
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post #19757 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Chise View Post
Any SC models and Atmos does not impress me for my house I don't need it plus Bw's speakers separate very well.
What differs the SC range then in that regard to the VSX range? Specifically the VSX elite models?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanishq02 View Post
My room is about 14x20, I think. Also, I had CM9s S2 for few weeks till I exchanged them with CM10s. Thought lets get the best I could effort and few hundred dollars wont make much difference over the period of time...rather than regretting later. But frankly speaking, I was not able to hear much difference between CM9s and CM10s (not sure if this is because new changes in S2 series compare to S1s) and now I know think I should have just kept CM9s...since they are little smaller and aesthetically would have been more pleasing . But I think you won't go wrong with either CM9s or CM10s
I'll have to take the measurements for my room, but I think it's a little smaller. The reason I asked is because I'd like to get the CM10's, but I'm unsure as to whether that may be "too much" speaker or not. If I still want the look of the external tweeter though I have to skip down to the CM6's and I'm unsure on that.
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post #19758 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post
was checking specs on CM Centre-2 S2, noticed weight is listed at 41.0lbs? Could'nt be correct? Should'nt it be somewhere near 20lbs to 25lbs?

Specs from B&W web-site:
Woven Kevlar
Flowport
Technical features Nautilus tube loaded Decoupled Double Dome aluminium tweeter
Kevlar® brand fibre FST midrange
Flowport™
Description 3-way vented-box system
Drive units 1x ø25mm (1 in) Decoupled Double Dome aluminium high-frequency
1x ø100mm (4 in) Kevlar® cone FST midrange
2x ø165mm (6.5 in) Paper/Kevlar® cone bass
Frequency range -6dB at 45Hz and 50kHz
Frequency response 50Hz - 28kHz ±3dB
Dispersion Within 2dB of reference response
Horizontal: over 60º arc
Vertical: over 10º arc
Sensitivity 89dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Harmonic distortion 2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 90Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 120Hz - 20kHz
Nominal impedance 8Ω (minimum 3Ω)
Crossover frequencies 350Hz, 4kHz
Recommended amplifier power 30W - 200W into 8V on unclipped programme
Max. recommended cable impedance 0,1 Ω
Dimensions Height: 225mm (8.6 in)
Width: 590mm (23.2 in)
Depth: 285mm (11.2 in) cabinet only
301mm (11.9 in) including grille and terminals
Net weight 18.7kg (41.1 lb)
Finishes
Cabinet: Rosenut
Gloss Black
Satin White
Grille: Black
Grey (Satin White only)
Pick one up you see how heavy .
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post #19759 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spincut View Post
What differs the SC range then in that regard to the VSX range? Specifically the VSX elite models?



I'll have to take the measurements for my room, but I think it's a little smaller. The reason I asked is because I'd like to get the CM10's, but I'm unsure as to whether that may be "too much" speaker or not. If I still want the look of the external tweeter though I have to skip down to the CM6's and I'm unsure on that.
The SC have more power and 85 on up, plus has Atmos.
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post #19760 of 19770 Old 10-29-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Gecko85 View Post
I set everything back to small and played around with the channel level of the center...it helps a bit. Still not great, but better.
Do this as a quick test. swap your center speaker with one of your CM1s up front. Then, do your same listening tests and see if you hear this sound quality follow the center speaker or stay with the center speaker wires. Then, reset your speaker output levels back to even dbs (I'm guessing you bumped up the level of your center a db or 2?)

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post #19761 of 19770 Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brotus View Post
Acerox, sorry for posting this private message. I am too new here to respond to private messages but I am able to receive them apprently.

Post mentioned: B&W Owner's Thread

I did do a side by side with the CMC2 S1 and S2. I didn't post about it because it wasn't very scientific, just my ears. The S1 sounds fine with the CM9s and matches them well. It's still lacking on the high end in my opinion and too heavy on the bass in my opinion, but the bass issue is solved with an 80Hz crossover. The highs can't quite be solved, even with EQ as I've tried.

The S2 really is an all around better sounding speaker, especially with the CM10. In my testing I did find that both speakers sound much better above the TV than below it. Maybe it gives more vertical dispersion because that's what it is designed to do.

If you have S2 fronts (or CM10 S1) then definitely go for the CMC2 S2 if you can. It's a huge difference in transparency. I would 'notice' my CMC2 all the time, but I rarely notice the CMC2S2 unless I pull myself out of the action to gaze in awe of a spectacular center channel speaker.
Thanks for the reply. I think my CMC2 is on sale... specially now that I got the CM5 S2 as rear speakers. I agree with you. I also notice when the sound is coming from the center channel, and it doesn't seem to be a sound as good as the one coming from the 10s.
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post #19762 of 19770 Old Yesterday, 03:47 PM
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I bought the Sanus SF30-B1 steel series speakers stands for my CM5 S2 (official ones are a bit pricey). I thought that the speakers could be bolted to the stand top plate, but this one is too small. I don't want to leave them just standing on the stand since at some point somebody will hit the stand or speaker and it will fall, giving me a really bad day. Has somebody come to the same problem, any solution? Can a bigger top plate be bought? otherwise the stands will return to the shop.

Thanks.
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post #19763 of 19770 Old Yesterday, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acerox View Post
I bought the Sanus SF30-B1 steel series speakers stands for my CM5 S2 (official ones are a bit pricey). I thought that the speakers could be bolted to the stand top plate, but this one is too small. I don't want to leave them just standing on the stand since at some point somebody will hit the stand or speaker and it will fall, giving me a really bad day. Has somebody come to the same problem, any solution? Can a bigger top plate be bought? otherwise the stands will return to the shop.

Thanks.
I have those same stands, and use some blu-tack to help keep my CM1's better stabilized. It's not perfect, but better.

Panasonic TC-P60ST60, Pioneer SC-1523-K, Oppo BDP-103D, Pioneer PL-550 + Cambridge Audio Azur 640P, B&W CM1 (fronts), B&W CM Centre, Athena Point 5 Mk II (rears), Hsu VTF-2
----------------------------------------
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post #19764 of 19770 Old Yesterday, 09:14 PM
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You can make a top plate out of MDF or plate steel and paint it black to match the speaker stands. I decided to purchase the VTI VSP stands. The top plates are also a bit small to match up to the mounting holes on my CM5's. I used the silicone rubber feet that came with the speaker and stuck those directly to the stand. I then set the speaker on top of those. This has provided a very solid mounting interface. They will not tolerate a tip over to the ground, but my stands are quite stable and the speakers do not move at all on top of them.

-Morfious
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Emotiva XMC-1
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B&W (CMC2 S2, CM5)
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post #19765 of 19770 Old Today, 08:12 AM
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Does anyone know differences between CWM8.3 and CWM7.3? Also, how does one install these in the wall as a center speaker? Finally, anyone compare either of these to the Focal IW1003BE? Thanks.

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post #19766 of 19770 Old Today, 12:46 PM
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Where to begin...

The CWM8.3 has a full Matrix backbox which must be attached directly to wall studs (read: new home construction or renovation installation.) The CWM7.3 has an ABS backbox which is retrofittable. CWM8.3- very quiet box. CWM7.3- not as quiet.

The CWM8.3 uses the same tweeter as the PM-1. The CWM7.3 uses a soft dome tweeter that is very good, but definitely not in the same league. CWM8.3 bass drivers are Rohacell. CWM7.3 bass drivers are paper/Kevlar. The CWM8.3 has better quality components in the crossover network. The CWM8.3 midrange and tweeter are decoupled.

Essentially, the CWM8.3 is like having an 804 Diamond in your wall, albeit without the full advantage of diamond tweeters. The CWM7.3 is the best in-wall that we can make which is retrofittable. That approach has inherent advantages and disadvantages.

Best Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America



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Originally Posted by BVLDARI View Post
Does anyone know differences between CWM8.3 and CWM7.3? Also, how does one install these in the wall as a center speaker? Finally, anyone compare either of these to the Focal IW1003BE? Thanks.
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post #19767 of 19770 Old Today, 12:51 PM
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You might be thinking of our smaller CMCS2, which weighs a little over 25lb.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post
was checking specs on CM Centre-2 S2, noticed weight is listed at 41.0lbs? Could'nt be correct? Should'nt it be somewhere near 20lbs to 25lbs?

Specs from B&W web-site:
Woven Kevlar
Flowport
Technical features Nautilus tube loaded Decoupled Double Dome aluminium tweeter
Kevlar® brand fibre FST midrange
Flowport™
Description 3-way vented-box system
Drive units 1x ø25mm (1 in) Decoupled Double Dome aluminium high-frequency
1x ø100mm (4 in) Kevlar® cone FST midrange
2x ø165mm (6.5 in) Paper/Kevlar® cone bass
Frequency range -6dB at 45Hz and 50kHz
Frequency response 50Hz - 28kHz ±3dB
Dispersion Within 2dB of reference response
Horizontal: over 60º arc
Vertical: over 10º arc
Sensitivity 89dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Harmonic distortion 2nd and 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<1% 90Hz - 22kHz
<0.5% 120Hz - 20kHz
Nominal impedance 8Ω (minimum 3Ω)
Crossover frequencies 350Hz, 4kHz
Recommended amplifier power 30W - 200W into 8V on unclipped programme
Max. recommended cable impedance 0,1 Ω
Dimensions Height: 225mm (8.6 in)
Width: 590mm (23.2 in)
Depth: 285mm (11.2 in) cabinet only
301mm (11.9 in) including grille and terminals
Net weight 18.7kg (41.1 lb)
Finishes
Cabinet: Rosenut
Gloss Black
Satin White
Grille: Black
Grey (Satin White only)
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post #19768 of 19770 Old Today, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Where to begin...

The CWM8.3 has a full Matrix backbox which must be attached directly to wall studs (read: new home construction or renovation installation.) The CWM7.3 has an ABS backbox which is retrofittable. CWM8.3- very quiet box. CWM7.3- not as quiet.

The CWM8.3 uses the same tweeter as the PM-1. The CWM7.3 uses a soft dome tweeter that is very good, but definitely not in the same league. CWM8.3 bass drivers are Rohacell. CWM7.3 bass drivers are paper/Kevlar. The CWM8.3 has better quality components in the crossover network. The CWM8.3 midrange and tweeter are decoupled.

Essentially, the CWM8.3 is like having an 804 Diamond in your wall, albeit without the full advantage of diamond tweeters. The CWM7.3 is the best in-wall that we can make which is retrofittable. That approach has inherent advantages and disadvantages.

Best Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America
Thanks Patrick. Great info!

How does one install the back box for the CWM7.3 as a center channel?

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post #19769 of 19770 Old Today, 02:14 PM
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Hi all

I'm in the process of my next upgrade, and many might laugh or think they know the answer: I have a pair of 802 d with a onkyo pre power which sounds dramatically better than my friends 803s wit a mark levison 336 power amp- so this I'm happy with!(very very happy, I know a power amp could and would make a big difference please no coments on what can be done to improve this)
I have older center, rears and subwoofer by monitor audio and rel which barely keep up so now I need to upgrade the center or sub with the htm2 or db1, what would you choose first as both are very expensive and my friend sais the htm2 as I don't like bass that distracts from the viewing experience ( often done initially in home theater to impress but becomes fatiguing)but would like the advantages the db1 brings to stereo- even though the velodyne optimum 10 inch ads little to music- almost enough for movies tooooo much for my current tv broadcaster,( currently I use the 802d in phantom.
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post #19770 of 19770 Old Today, 03:41 PM
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I personally hate phantom imaging of content that is made to have a discrete center. It works some of the time but if you are used to the source content and know what to listen for with the placement of sound I always find phantom center seriously lacking. So with that I would personally get the HTM2 first. As for a sub, if a sub is ever distracting then chances are it's not likely setup optimally for the room. This could be do to placement, the volume of the sub, etc so you may be able to get more out of your current sub if you are finding it lacking in a particular area. If you are finding the HTM2 and DB1 expensive then for subs I would look elsewhere anyways, you'll get better for less money.

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