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post #19891 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 08:37 AM
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Hi everyone,

I have pre-order a pair of 685 S2 & HTM 62 speaker after reading input from you guys, love the design & Most imptly it's fit my budget. This is my first high end speakers, don't mind could you advise if Marantz SR6009 suit these beautiful speakers? Based on the brochure, it's recommended amp power is 25W - 100W into 8Ω on unclipped programme but ut the Marantz SR6009 power is at 8Ω 110W.

Will these amp overwhelm these speakers? As I read people advising amp should be 10% more than speakers? N it would also be bad for the speaker if it's output is more than amp.

Can any kind soul please advise? I am really confused.

Appreciate with thanks
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post #19892 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qflight View Post
Hi everyone,

I have pre-order a pair of 685 S2 & HTM 62 speaker after reading input from you guys, love the design & Most imptly it's fit my budget. This is my first high end speakers, don't mind could you advise if Marantz SR6009 suit these beautiful speakers? Based on the brochure, it's recommended amp power is 25W - 100W into 8Ω on unclipped programme but ut the Marantz SR6009 power is at 8Ω 110W.

Will these amp overwhelm these speakers? As I read people advising amp should be 10% more than speakers? N it would also be bad for the speaker if it's output is more than amp.

Can any kind soul please advise? I am really confused.

Appreciate with thanks
That amp will be just fine. You are much more likely to damage a speaker by under powering it rather than overpowering it. I run my CM5's with a 200 watt amp and they just sing. Enjoy your new setup. Make sure to set levels and distances to get the most out of your new setup.

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post #19893 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qflight View Post
Hi everyone,

I have pre-order a pair of 685 S2 & HTM 62 speaker after reading input from you guys, love the design & Most imptly it's fit my budget. This is my first high end speakers, don't mind could you advise if Marantz SR6009 suit these beautiful speakers? Based on the brochure, it's recommended amp power is 25W - 100W into 8Ω on unclipped programme but ut the Marantz SR6009 power is at 8Ω 110W.

Will these amp overwhelm these speakers? As I read people advising amp should be 10% more than speakers? N it would also be bad for the speaker if it's output is more than amp.

Can any kind soul please advise? I am really confused.

Appreciate with thanks
You be fine
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post #19894 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 06:53 PM
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How important will it be to match models across LCR channels with model years? As an example if I pick up 2 CM series leftovers from last season will I need to find the matching year center channel?

I know voicing can vary from model to model so I would assume at least sticking with matching models across the front speakers will be important.
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post #19895 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qflight View Post
Hi everyone,

I have pre-order a pair of 685 S2 & HTM 62 speaker after reading input from you guys, love the design & Most imptly it's fit my budget. This is my first high end speakers, don't mind could you advise if Marantz SR6009 suit these beautiful speakers? Based on the brochure, it's recommended amp power is 25W - 100W into 8Ω on unclipped programme but ut the Marantz SR6009 power is at 8Ω 110W.

Will these amp overwhelm these speakers? As I read people advising amp should be 10% more than speakers? N it would also be bad for the speaker if it's output is more than amp.

Can any kind soul please advise? I am really confused.

Appreciate with thanks
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post #19896 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 09:03 PM
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Adding CM5's as Surrounds - Stands or mounts, Positions and Crossovers?

Hello Bdubbers (B&W owners) - i dont think that works, sorry

Anyway I just picked up my CM5s to round out 5.2 (CM10s, CMC2, SVS Sb2000 X2 and now CM5)

I wanted to know if anyone had some insight/experience/suggestions on a few things:

I plan to use these as surround speakers obviously given my equipment thus far and wanted to know:

1. Can i simply put these on top of a couple cheap bookcases i have instead of a proper stand? if so how far away from the side wall should the back of the speaker be?

2. they came with port plugs as did the rest of my gear from b&W - i ahve yet to use these but as i have a cramped TV stand with my CMC2 in it right now (back of stand is open but speaker is only about 1.5 feet or less from a fireplace with brick all around it i am wondering if the port plugs might help soften the sound a bit as i have two subs and CM10s providing plenty of bass. would the plugs make sense for the CM5s as well especially if they are too close to the walls?

3. as far as stands or mounts what do you guys use? these are not huge speakers but they are fairly dense and i imagine quality of sound will be delicate based on position and how they are being help up.

4. what kind of crossover do you all use for a larger bookshelf speaker like this in a surround sound setting where music is about 90% (as much multichannel as possible) and movies while important are rare at the other 10%?

Thanks!
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post #19897 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post
Hello Bdubbers (B&W owners) - i dont think that works, sorry

Anyway I just picked up my CM5s to round out 5.2 (CM10s, CMC2, SVS Sb2000 X2 and now CM5)

I wanted to know if anyone had some insight/experience/suggestions on a few things:

I plan to use these as surround speakers obviously given my equipment thus far and wanted to know:

1. Can i simply put these on top of a couple cheap bookcases i have instead of a proper stand? if so how far away from the side wall should the back of the speaker be?

2. they came with port plugs as did the rest of my gear from b&W - i ahve yet to use these but as i have a cramped TV stand with my CMC2 in it right now (back of stand is open but speaker is only about 1.5 feet or less from a fireplace with brick all around it i am wondering if the port plugs might help soften the sound a bit as i have two subs and CM10s providing plenty of bass. would the plugs make sense for the CM5s as well especially if they are too close to the walls?

3. as far as stands or mounts what do you guys use? these are not huge speakers but they are fairly dense and i imagine quality of sound will be delicate based on position and how they are being help up.

4. what kind of crossover do you all use for a larger bookshelf speaker like this in a surround sound setting where music is about 90% (as much multichannel as possible) and movies while important are rare at the other 10%?

Thanks!
It would be beneficial to have at least a foot behind the CM5s and from the side walls if possible. I would use a crossover of 80 Hz all around. Of course you can play around with this but 80 Hz would be a good starting point. (80 Hz works well in my situation with the CMC2 and 4 CM5s. I listen to quite a bit of multi-channel music.) Finally, it would be best to have them on stands at ear height. However, if you must make do with placement on bookshelves, be sure to pull the speakers to the front of the shelves.

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post #19898 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
It would be beneficial to have at least a foot behind the CM5s and from the side walls if possible. I would use a crossover of 80 Hz all around. Of course you can play around with this but 80 Hz would be a good starting point. (80 Hz works well in my situation with the CMC2 and 4 CM5s. I listen to quite a bit of multi-channel music.) Finally, it would be best to have them on stands at ear height. However, if you must make do with placement on bookshelves, be sure to pull the speakers to the front of the shelves.
thanks - why a crossover of 80 all around? I have gone back and forth between 80 and 60 for my front left and rights but had been using a higher crossover for surround and center speakers...audyssey sets my fronts and center the same at 40 BTW.

Perhaps it is a mute point for hte time being as I noticed in the back of one of the CM5s I just unboxed that what looks like a scratch appears to be more of a crack on the back side of the speaker in the gloss area coming directly out from the port cover - either from the back port screw being driven in too hard or from damage during shipping I guess.

Either way I am awaiting a response from my guy a Magnolia as to what course of action I should take. I imagine I will be boxing htem back up and returning them and hoping they can get me a new pair. I assume something like that would warrant replacements but either way I plan to return and get new ones anyway.

I would love to take a listen but am thinking it may be best to hold off for now unfortunately...
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post #19899 of 19910 Unread 11-19-2014, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post
thanks - why a crossover of 80 all around? I have gone back and forth between 80 and 60 for my front left and rights but had been using a higher crossover for surround and center speakers...audyssey sets my fronts and center the same at 40 BTW.

Perhaps it is a mute point for hte time being as I noticed in the back of one of the CM5s I just unboxed that what looks like a scratch appears to be more of a crack on the back side of the speaker in the gloss area coming directly out from the port cover - either from the back port screw being driven in too hard or from damage during shipping I guess.

Either way I am awaiting a response from my guy a Magnolia as to what course of action I should take. I imagine I will be boxing htem back up and returning them and hoping they can get me a new pair. I assume something like that would warrant replacements but either way I plan to return and get new ones anyway.

I would love to take a listen but am thinking it may be best to hold off for now unfortunately...
That's too bad regarding the damage. Obviously the CM10s can handle the lower crossover setting but with two subwoofers it would make sense to send the low frequences to them. That way the mid-bass and midrange frequencies are handled by FR/FL and the surrounds. It makes sense for both music and HT.

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Originally Posted by wattheF View Post
How important will it be to match models across LCR channels with model years? As an example if I pick up 2 CM series leftovers from last season will I need to find the matching year center channel?

I know voicing can vary from model to model so I would assume at least sticking with matching models across the front speakers will be important.
The tweeter was changed in the CM series 2. So I would definitely match your L/R with a CMC2 series 1.

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Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post
Hello Bdubbers (B&W owners) - i dont think that works, sorry

Anyway I just picked up my CM5s to round out 5.2 (CM10s, CMC2, SVS Sb2000 X2 and now CM5)

I wanted to know if anyone had some insight/experience/suggestions on a few things:

I plan to use these as surround speakers obviously given my equipment thus far and wanted to know:

1. Can i simply put these on top of a couple cheap bookcases i have instead of a proper stand? if so how far away from the side wall should the back of the speaker be?

2. they came with port plugs as did the rest of my gear from b&W - i ahve yet to use these but as i have a cramped TV stand with my CMC2 in it right now (back of stand is open but speaker is only about 1.5 feet or less from a fireplace with brick all around it i am wondering if the port plugs might help soften the sound a bit as i have two subs and CM10s providing plenty of bass. would the plugs make sense for the CM5s as well especially if they are too close to the walls?

3. as far as stands or mounts what do you guys use? these are not huge speakers but they are fairly dense and i imagine quality of sound will be delicate based on position and how they are being help up.

4. what kind of crossover do you all use for a larger bookshelf speaker like this in a surround sound setting where music is about 90% (as much multichannel as possible) and movies while important are rare at the other 10%?

Thanks!
1. You can put them on bookshelves. Stands tend to couple the speaker to the floor helping mid/bass response. But in a pinch you can forego stands.

2. I would experiment with the plugs and see how you like them. As a general rule they are meant to compensate for distance from the wall. But they do change sound characteristics and every room is different. My CM5's are very close to the wall now and still sound fine without the plugs. I'm planning on experimenting with the plugs when I have time. But when I moved them from a place where they had breathing room to a place closer to the walls, I have not noticed any huge changes in sound.

3. I do use stands with spikes. I've not used the CM5's without them, so no comment on any differences.

4. I use a 70Hz crossover for the CMC2 and CM5s. On the CMC2 it tends to get a boxy sound if I set it any lower. The CM5's I set out of laziness to match the CMC2. I don't expect them to have much appreciable output below 70Hz so it seemed fine. The CM9's I crossover at 55Hz.

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I am also trying to figure out what stands to go with for the CM5 surrounds I just picked up. Ideally I would like to go with the matching FS-700 stands but since CM S1s are no longer produced, does that mean the stands are phased out as well?

I see the CM S2s come with different stands from B&W. Are those available yet?
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
The tweeter was changed in the CM series 2. So I would definitely match your L/R with a CMC2 series 1.
The exception to this would be the CM10S1, go with S2 as it already has the upgraded tweeter.
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The exception to this would be the CM10S1, go with S2 as it already has the upgraded tweeter.
Yes indeed the CM10 S1 is sonically a CM10 S2. Should have put in that caveat.

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I am also trying to figure out what stands to go with for the CM5 surrounds I just picked up. Ideally I would like to go with the matching FS-700 stands but since CM S1s are no longer produced, does that mean the stands are phased out as well?

I see the CM S2s come with different stands from B&W. Are those available yet?
Well I answered my own question..lol. A local dealer says the FS-700 stands are no longer available. The new stands are available but $500. That's a little too rich I think.
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post #19906 of 19910 Unread Yesterday, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
1. You can put them on bookshelves. Stands tend to couple the speaker to the floor helping mid/bass response. But in a pinch you can forego stands.

2. I would experiment with the plugs and see how you like them. As a general rule they are meant to compensate for distance from the wall. But they do change sound characteristics and every room is different. My CM5's are very close to the wall now and still sound fine without the plugs. I'm planning on experimenting with the plugs when I have time. But when I moved them from a place where they had breathing room to a place closer to the walls, I have not noticed any huge changes in sound.

3. I do use stands with spikes. I've not used the CM5's without them, so no comment on any differences.

4. I use a 70Hz crossover for the CMC2 and CM5s. On the CMC2 it tends to get a boxy sound if I set it any lower. The CM5's I set out of laziness to match the CMC2. I don't expect them to have much appreciable output below 70Hz so it seemed fine. The CM9's I crossover at 55Hz.
My reciever doesnt give an option for crossover at 70 the options are only 40/60/80/90 and up

Looks like my guy at MDC is working on getting me a new pair of CM5s to replace the ones that arrived with a crack/scratch. I wonder how easy it is to get a new speaker from b&W for a discontinued line like the CM5s....wait and see i guess.

as far as room behind the speakers i am still trying to determine the best position or rack or stand to place my cmc2...i havent bought a stand yet but was able to move my tv behind the actual tv stand and place the cmc2 there...i havent fired it up yet but there is only a few inches between the back of the center speaker and various obsctructions like the wooden piece of furniture i used to place my tv stand on behind it.

as far as surround speaker placement i know for surround left and right for my setup (mostly music) i have gotten recommendations to place them left and right of MLP - however i see many use the cm5s as rear surrounds or even use other speakers as rear surrounds (or height) and then use the cm5s as surround left and right or wide?

any thoughts on how these best would fit together for great multichannel audio in a 5.2 or 7.2?

looking into stands for the cm5s as well but the recommendations from b&w and my deal are insanely expensive. does anyone have a good suggestion for stands to place the cm5s?

probably going to go ahead with a 2 channel amp as well for the fronts (maybe 3 but i doubt it) and am trying to decide between a peachtree (believe it is the 220?) an arcam (105 WPC) think it is the p38? or a rotel...rotel is obviously highly recommended by the dealer and b&w of course but i have read some good things about the 1570 and a couple other models too.

also was wondering if i went with integrated should i go marantz to match the rest of my setup or perhaps an integrated/power amp that has some DAC and more connection options for going stragiht from source (or NAS stored music via pc etc.) to the amp bypassing my marantz for the two channel listening i will do?
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Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post

looking into stands for the cm5s as well but the recommendations from b&w and my deal are insanely expensive. does anyone have a good suggestion for stands to place the cm5s?
Here you go for stands.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/audio-st...d=abcat0106002

And some of this to keep them from sliding around.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-BLUES...1201/202070834

PSN ID: javant86


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post #19908 of 19910 Unread Yesterday, 02:22 PM
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My reciever doesnt give an option for crossover at 70 the options are only 40/60/80/90 and up

Looks like my guy at MDC is working on getting me a new pair of CM5s to replace the ones that arrived with a crack/scratch. I wonder how easy it is to get a new speaker from b&W for a discontinued line like the CM5s....wait and see i guess.

as far as room behind the speakers i am still trying to determine the best position or rack or stand to place my cmc2...i havent bought a stand yet but was able to move my tv behind the actual tv stand and place the cmc2 there...i havent fired it up yet but there is only a few inches between the back of the center speaker and various obsctructions like the wooden piece of furniture i used to place my tv stand on behind it.

as far as surround speaker placement i know for surround left and right for my setup (mostly music) i have gotten recommendations to place them left and right of MLP - however i see many use the cm5s as rear surrounds or even use other speakers as rear surrounds (or height) and then use the cm5s as surround left and right or wide?

any thoughts on how these best would fit together for great multichannel audio in a 5.2 or 7.2?

looking into stands for the cm5s as well but the recommendations from b&w and my deal are insanely expensive. does anyone have a good suggestion for stands to place the cm5s?

probably going to go ahead with a 2 channel amp as well for the fronts (maybe 3 but i doubt it) and am trying to decide between a peachtree (believe it is the 220?) an arcam (105 WPC) think it is the p38? or a rotel...rotel is obviously highly recommended by the dealer and b&w of course but i have read some good things about the 1570 and a couple other models too.

also was wondering if i went with integrated should i go marantz to match the rest of my setup or perhaps an integrated/power amp that has some DAC and more connection options for going stragiht from source (or NAS stored music via pc etc.) to the amp bypassing my marantz for the two channel listening i will do?

There's no real reason to go with $500 stands. I'm using the heavy steel stands I bought in the mid 90's. They were nowhere near $500 even then. Just look for something heavy with a wide enough base for the speaker and decent base (spikes if you have carpet).

With those crossovers, I would start with 60Hz for CM5's and 80Hz for the CMC2. You can experiment with 60Hz for the CMC2 and see if you experience any of the boxiness I have.

Rear channel placement I prefer to be to the sides. Where exactly depends on their height. My stands place them right at ear level and I find them to be to distracting for the side listening positions if I place them in line with the seating. So I have them about 2 feet behind the listening position with a slight angle towards the listening area. Still gives a fantastic image without firing directly into someones ear. I have experimented with rear firing vs. side and with the rear channel height being so close to the towers I suspect it generates nulls in my room. The sound just doesn't seem as good.

I would go the amp route rather than integrated. I've been able to find deals on processors. Which it makes it economical to continue to use the amps and just swap out the preamp. Plus an amp usually has a beefier power supply. I would look at something in the 200Wpc range for CM10's. Though I wasn't expecting to, I did notice some extra detail switching the CMC2/CM9 over to the beefier Emotiva XPA-3 (the Rotel was 120w/ch).

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post #19909 of 19910 Unread Yesterday, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
There's no real reason to go with $500 stands. I'm using the heavy steel stands I bought in the mid 90's. They were nowhere near $500 even then. Just look for something heavy with a wide enough base for the speaker and decent base (spikes if you have carpet).

With those crossovers, I would start with 60Hz for CM5's and 80Hz for the CMC2. You can experiment with 60Hz for the CMC2 and see if you experience any of the boxiness I have.

Rear channel placement I prefer to be to the sides. Where exactly depends on their height. My stands place them right at ear level and I find them to be to distracting for the side listening positions if I place them in line with the seating. So I have them about 2 feet behind the listening position with a slight angle towards the listening area. Still gives a fantastic image without firing directly into someones ear. I have experimented with rear firing vs. side and with the rear channel height being so close to the towers I suspect it generates nulls in my room. The sound just doesn't seem as good.

I would go the amp route rather than integrated. I've been able to find deals on processors. Which it makes it economical to continue to use the amps and just swap out the preamp. Plus an amp usually has a beefier power supply. I would look at something in the 200Wpc range for CM10's. Though I wasn't expecting to, I did notice some extra detail switching the CMC2/CM9 over to the beefier Emotiva XPA-3 (the Rotel was 120w/ch).
thanks for the reply - I am thinking of placing my surrounds (cm5s) a bit behind listening position as you suggested becuase if they are right in line with the MLP one of them will be very close to a wall and/or very close to the right side listening spot and MLP and the other would be more than 3-4 feet from left side wall giving them different sound characteristics i imagine.

As far as the switch in amps - you went from rotel to emotiva (imagine the rotel was much pricier) and you got better detail? that is interesting as i would have expected the opposite. however with more power going to the cm10s I suppose that would make up for any "quality" advantage the rotel may have over the emotiva (i understand that may be none or insignificant anyhow).

Do you think a parasound halo a21 or a31 would be worth the jump in price from the xpa-2 or 3? I am going back and forth between 2 channel and a 3 channel given the size of the cmc2 and the fact that if i am powering the cm10s with a 2 channel amp i would most likely be in pure direct or some other stereo sound format when listening to music.

do you use the emotiva for all three fronts when listening to 2 channel? or are you mostly talking about a movie/surround playback experience?

i wouldnt pay 500 for a stand (anything over 100 sounds fairly ridiculous to me given the speakers are only costing me (brand new CM5) about 1000 dollars for the pair after tax and all that.

i dont think the sanus stands i have tried thus far cant support the cm5s though - they were wobbly when i put my polk t15s on them and those are only 7 or 8 pounds i think.

regardless those were two of hte smaller stands i tried - overall i think they just lack quality in build.

there is a random stand i can grab for the cmc2 that looks like it will fit well with perhaps some puddy as you recommended or other product to keep it in place that my guy has at MDC and he said he would give it to me for 90 bucks - think it was a return and retailed for like 150 or so. not sure of brand tho.

anyone know how much room the cmc2 should optimally have between the rear ports and and a wall/furniture/etc that would be behind it?
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Originally Posted by pickering.tim View Post
thanks for the reply - I am thinking of placing my surrounds (cm5s) a bit behind listening position as you suggested becuase if they are right in line with the MLP one of them will be very close to a wall and/or very close to the right side listening spot and MLP and the other would be more than 3-4 feet from left side wall giving them different sound characteristics i imagine.

As far as the switch in amps - you went from rotel to emotiva (imagine the rotel was much pricier) and you got better detail? that is interesting as i would have expected the opposite. however with more power going to the cm10s I suppose that would make up for any "quality" advantage the rotel may have over the emotiva (i understand that may be none or insignificant anyhow).

Do you think a parasound halo a21 or a31 would be worth the jump in price from the xpa-2 or 3? I am going back and forth between 2 channel and a 3 channel given the size of the cmc2 and the fact that if i am powering the cm10s with a 2 channel amp i would most likely be in pure direct or some other stereo sound format when listening to music.

do you use the emotiva for all three fronts when listening to 2 channel? or are you mostly talking about a movie/surround playback experience?

i wouldnt pay 500 for a stand (anything over 100 sounds fairly ridiculous to me given the speakers are only costing me (brand new CM5) about 1000 dollars for the pair after tax and all that.

i dont think the sanus stands i have tried thus far cant support the cm5s though - they were wobbly when i put my polk t15s on them and those are only 7 or 8 pounds i think.

regardless those were two of hte smaller stands i tried - overall i think they just lack quality in build.

there is a random stand i can grab for the cmc2 that looks like it will fit well with perhaps some puddy as you recommended or other product to keep it in place that my guy has at MDC and he said he would give it to me for 90 bucks - think it was a return and retailed for like 150 or so. not sure of brand tho.

anyone know how much room the cmc2 should optimally have between the rear ports and and a wall/furniture/etc that would be behind it?
Given that the Emotiva has a bit more distortion than the Rotel, I just was hoping to not lose any sound quality. I was surprised as any that there was a difference in favor of the Emotiva (not huge but there). I added the Emotiva to be able to go to a 7.1 setup eventually. My suspicion is that the perhaps the Kevlar midrange drivers react faster with more wattage behind them and thus sound a bit more detailed, but that's just a guess. The Emotiva is used for 2ch listening and performs as well as it does for surround. All of my CD listening is done in stereo (L/R + sub w/ Audessey). I love multichannel music and concerts (in addition to movies), so my goal is to do whatever I can to make the front soundstage as seamless as possible. So the 3ch amp was an obvious choice. The CMC2 is beefy enough to handle whatever the XPA-3 gives it thus far.

I've only heard good things about the Parasounds. Without a direct comparison I couldn't say whether it would be worth the premium. I can say the Emotiva does not sound in any way "low rent". I was very impressed with the build quality of the amp and have no complaints with the sound. If you have any way to audition them, that should be the deciding factor. If money is tight, you might consider the Emotiva with the option to resell it down the road. You wouldn't take much loss.

Wish I could help more on stands. I just picked up the ones I am using at the hi-fi shop at the time. Looked for sturdy and cheap(ish).

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