B&W Owner's Thread - Page 685 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20521 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 04:03 AM
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Bi-Amp - Low frequenies and high frequencies are sent from 2 different amplifier channels. They can be from the same amp or from 2 different amplifers. The main concept is that each speaker is driven by 2 different channels. The amp and each speaker would have 4 connections (Hi +, Hi -, Low +, Low-). Best use of this method is with and external crossover and can give better sounding results since the low frequencies can be driven with a more powerful amp.

Bi-Wire - Low and high frequencies are sent from the same amplifier channel. The connectors at the amplifier end has the positive wires connected together as well as the negative wires connected together. Those 4 leads then make the run to the speaker.

Bi-Amping can have the ability to improve the sound quality or change the sound of the speakers, if an external crossover is utilized. You also can emphasize or decrease the bass in the speakers by using a different wattage amp for the low end of things.

Bi-Wire should not dramatically change the sound. You are effectively increasing the gauge of the speaker wire by using 2 runs to the same speaker.

I forget where I read the reference, but in my case using a quad cable 12 gauge speaker wire in bi-wire application is equivalent to using a single run of 9 gauge speaker wire. The main reasons I did it were for aesthetics, and for the fun of making the cables myself.

Hope this clears things up if there was confusion.

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post #20522 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 11:13 AM
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Just a question here. I was at a place last night that had the 802Ds hooked up to some McIntosh mono blocks and pre amp. What an amazing sound in the mids and highs!! However. Below say 3-400 Hz, What a mess! VERY muddy bass! The room was treated and the treatments seemed to be the right kind and placed well. I am going to assume this was not the speakers and there was still something wrong with the room. I can't imagine the 800 series are like that. Anyone else experience this? Was the McIntosh stuff messed up? I know its hard to tell without actually measuring the room but I just found it odd. How do you sell multi thousand dollar equipment when it sounds like sh*t? This was not Best Buy.

Sounds good!
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post #20523 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 02:44 PM
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B&W Owner's Thread

On the minority of on this of course but internal crossover vs external cross over.. Crossover is a crossover doesn't matter where you put it. Unless there are 4 crossovers so the signal don't run in to each other at all. Just me visualizing it for what I have read.
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post #20524 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Just a question here. I was at a place last night that had the 802Ds hooked up to some McIntosh mono blocks and pre amp. What an amazing sound in the mids and highs!! However. Below say 3-400 Hz, What a mess! VERY muddy bass! The room was treated and the treatments seemed to be the right kind and placed well. I am going to assume this was not the speakers and there was still something wrong with the room. I can't imagine the 800 series are like that. Anyone else experience this? Was the McIntosh stuff messed up? I know its hard to tell without actually measuring the room but I just found it odd. How do you sell multi thousand dollar equipment when it sounds like sh*t? This was not Best Buy.
Was there subs in the room? If so perhaps the pre-amp or SSP was set for double bass, that would certainly F up the low end. It's also possible the speakers were placed poorly, incorrect taps on the amps were used, etc. A lot of different things could be contributing.

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post #20525 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 03:49 PM
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802d's have very good Bass response. ..not as good as say 800d's or Wilson Maxx3s or Grand slam
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post #20526 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Just a question here. I was at a place last night that had the 802Ds hooked up to some McIntosh mono blocks and pre amp. What an amazing sound in the mids and highs!! However. Below say 3-400 Hz, What a mess! VERY muddy bass! The room was treated and the treatments seemed to be the right kind and placed well. I am going to assume this was not the speakers and there was still something wrong with the room. I can't imagine the 800 series are like that. Anyone else experience this? Was the McIntosh stuff messed up? I know its hard to tell without actually measuring the room but I just found it odd. How do you sell multi thousand dollar equipment when it sounds like sh*t? This was not Best Buy.
I would have been pointing that out the whoever was doing the demo for you. I have heard the 802 and 800D. Nothing but sublime sound across the board. The 800D was spectacular.
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post #20527 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 04:12 PM
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802d's fed by a Krell 402e will rattle your teeth and make you feel like you part of the music. ....800d's fed by a pair of 900e will literally kill you
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post #20528 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 05:35 PM
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This was the first time I have listened to the 800 series. I know they can do better. When I say the bass was bad, it was bad!!! It was just noise without any coherence. I am sending them a email regarding this. Oh well. There was no other sub on. I looked at the connections.

Sounds good!
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post #20529 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSatala777 View Post
802d's fed by a Krell 402e will rattle your teeth and make you feel like you part of the music. ....800d's fed by a pair of 900e will literally kill you
Now I know what to get when I win Powerball!

Sounds good!
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post #20530 of 20535 Unread Yesterday, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fokakis1 View Post
The CM10 is an excellent speaker representing great value. You will not be disappointed.

That being said, if you can afford a pair of 80XD2 I would encourage you to do so. They are the next level. The D2s are world class speakers.

Good luck with your search.
I would say - go with 802D. Price looks reasonable. They are way better than anything in CM line. Di is an improvement over older D, but not too big. Keep in mind that you will need decent amp for 802D too, so allocate $1500-2000 for that (search for used Classe, Krell or Bryston of similar age with speakers).
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post #20531 of 20535 Unread Today, 05:36 AM
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Hi karlsaudio,

Any time you hear bass in a room, you are hearing loudspeakers+the room. Rooms can cancel or amplify bass at certain frequencies. They can also sing. Play a bass note at the right frequency, and you'll hear how the room continues to play that note long after it should have disappeared. On top of what I've just pointed out about rooms, if you don't have your speakers properly setup you can create further issues in the bass (and elsewhere.) The big one is smearing, where a note should be distinct but is instead too soft (or loud) and simultaneously indistinct. There is perhaps no bigger problem for small room acoustics than dealing with bass issues below 500Hz.

What you experienced was likely a combination of a misbehaving room a a compromised speaker setup. Most acoustical treatments that you see in stores are ineffectual at bass frequencies, but quite effective in the midrange and treble. This explains why you can have great mids and highs, but poor bass.

Rest assured that all of the equipment that you listened to is capable of fantastic sound if used properly under favorable conditions.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America



Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Just a question here. I was at a place last night that had the 802Ds hooked up to some McIntosh mono blocks and pre amp. What an amazing sound in the mids and highs!! However. Below say 3-400 Hz, What a mess! VERY muddy bass! The room was treated and the treatments seemed to be the right kind and placed well. I am going to assume this was not the speakers and there was still something wrong with the room. I can't imagine the 800 series are like that. Anyone else experience this? Was the McIntosh stuff messed up? I know its hard to tell without actually measuring the room but I just found it odd. How do you sell multi thousand dollar equipment when it sounds like sh*t? This was not Best Buy.
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post #20532 of 20535 Unread Today, 06:31 AM
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Thought I would attach a few good pics of the system - just got to have the 802's spiked now ........major mission as they sound so good as is , but guess this has to be done .
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post #20533 of 20535 Unread Today, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi karlsaudio,

Any time you hear bass in a room, you are hearing loudspeakers+the room. Rooms can cancel or amplify bass at certain frequencies. They can also sing. Play a bass note at the right frequency, and you'll hear how the room continues to play that note long after it should have disappeared. On top of what I've just pointed out about rooms, if you don't have your speakers properly setup you can create further issues in the bass (and elsewhere.) The big one is smearing, where a note should be distinct but is instead too soft (or loud) and simultaneously indistinct. There is perhaps no bigger problem for small room acoustics than dealing with bass issues below 500Hz.

What you experienced was likely a combination of a misbehaving room a a compromised speaker setup. Most acoustical treatments that you see in stores are ineffectual at bass frequencies, but quite effective in the midrange and treble. This explains why you can have great mids and highs, but poor bass.

Rest assured that all of the equipment that you listened to is capable of fantastic sound if used properly under favorable conditions.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America
Hi Patrick,


I realized after posting this as it sounded like I was bashing the speakers. Far from it. I am a fan of the whole B&W line. What gets me is that someone trying to sell speakers. Especially expensive ones. would not want to try a little harder to make sure there were no flaws in the room they were in. I hope they make some changes!


Karl

Sounds good!
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post #20534 of 20535 Unread Today, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Just a question here. I was at a place last night that had the 802Ds hooked up to some McIntosh mono blocks and pre amp. What an amazing sound in the mids and highs!! However. Below say 3-400 Hz, What a mess! VERY muddy bass! The room was treated and the treatments seemed to be the right kind and placed well. I am going to assume this was not the speakers and there was still something wrong with the room. I can't imagine the 800 series are like that. Anyone else experience this? Was the McIntosh stuff messed up? I know its hard to tell without actually measuring the room but I just found it odd. How do you sell multi thousand dollar equipment when it sounds like sh*t? This was not Best Buy.
I have 802 Diamonds in a small 10'X12' treated room and recently borrowed a Mac 452 amp and 2500 pre-amp from a dealer, the sound was awesome. I also heard the Mac 600w monos with the C500 ss/tube amps at a dealers location, in a treated room, and was there for like...hours...it sounded so good I didn't want to leave...LOL. In both listening environments, the bass was accurate, precise, enjoyable and in no way "muddy". So as others here have already done... I too can attest to the fact that the Mac/802 combination is incredible in the right room with the proper set-up, toe-in, etc...

B&W 802 Diamonds | ASWCM12 sub | Rotel RSP-1572 pre-amp | Rotel RMB-1585 amp (bi-amping the 802 Diamonds) | Oppo BDP-105 | Samsung UN60H7150 | SurgeX QX515 Surge Suppressor/Power Conditioner | Audioquest Cinnamon HMDI, Ethernet, & USB A/B cables | Tributaries Type 6 Speaker Cables | Tributaries Series 6 Analog Interconnects | Acoustimac DMD-422 acoustic panels.
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post #20535 of 20535 Unread Today, 09:19 AM
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Hi Karl,

I took your post in the light in which it was written, which was merely relating an experience you had. Not a hint of bashing to be found! In any event, I like knowing when our accounts are not hitting the high standards I know them capable of achieving. I also like hearing the success stories as well.

Thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

Patrick

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Originally Posted by karlsaudio View Post
Hi Patrick,


I realized after posting this as it sounded like I was bashing the speakers. Far from it. I am a fan of the whole B&W line. What gets me is that someone trying to sell speakers. Especially expensive ones. would not want to try a little harder to make sure there were no flaws in the room they were in. I hope they make some changes!


Karl
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