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post #181 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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If you like the 703's, the CM7's are going to strike you as quite the value then.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #182 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 11:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

when I had a 700 series surround system in my office.

That must be one heck of an office!
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post #183 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wb2fcr View Post

I was only pointing out proper writting technique. If English is a second language then all more reason he should learn proper grammer, etc.

Looks like someone needs to learn proper spelling (; A bit hypocritical to talk about someone's 'writting' and 'grammer' and misspell the words. Especially with the auto spell check.

Main screen turn on. All your base are belong to us.
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post #184 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Clepto View Post

Looks like someone needs to learn proper spelling (; A bit hypocritical to talk about someone's 'writting' and 'grammer' and misspell the words. Especially with the auto spell check.

Yes I forgot to run spell check. I am the world's worst speller. Thanks for pointing it though.
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post #185 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by function12 View Post

I have 602 S3 for FL and FR and 601 S3 for RL and RR plus a MK sub. My question is what LCR should I get LCR60 or LCR600? My room is 14 by 22.

First, I should warn you that 1) I'm not a big HT fan, I prefer music, and 2) that I have no direct experience with the center channels you are considering. But, since everybody else seems to be bickering I'll do my best to help.

As near as I can tell the difference between the 60 and 600 boils down to the size of the mid-mid/bass drivers, and cabinet size. The 600 will be more capable of filling a large room, and goes a little lower in frequency response. I suspect you'll find either to be a pretty good match with your other speakers. I suspect the 60 was designed to go with the 601 or 600 bookshelves in a small room, and the lcr600 was designed to go with the 603 or 604 floorstanders in a larger room. Your 602s and room size are in between, so you might need to consider where you might be moving in the future. If you can afford the 600 I'd go with that. If not go with the 60. Have you listened to either yet? Did you notice a difference? And if so, did you have a preference?

I'm sorry, I don't think any of the above will really help you decide which to buy. One thing I do know is people usually do not regret buying the best speaker they can afford. But people do sometimes regret getting something they cannot quite afford. So, I'd get the lcr600 if you can afford it, and the lcr60 if budget dictates.

Everything I say here is my opinion. It is not my employers opinion, it is not my wife's opinion, it is not my neighbors opinion, it is My Opinion.
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post #186 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by function12
I have 602 S3 for FL and FR and 601 S3 for RL and RR plus a MK sub. My question is what LCR should I get LCR60 or LCR600? My room is 14 by 22.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dknightd View Post

First, I should warn you that 1) I'm not a big HT fan, I prefer music, and 2) that I have no direct experience with the center channels you are considering. But, since everybody else seems to be bickering I'll do my best to help.

As near as I can tell the difference between the 60 and 600 boils down to the size of the mid-mid/bass drivers, and cabinet size. The 600 will be more capable of filling a large room, and goes a little lower in frequency response. I suspect you'll find either to be a pretty good match with your other speakers. I suspect the 60 was designed to go with the 601 or 600 bookshelves in a small room, and the lcr600 was designed to go with the 603 or 604 floorstanders in a larger room. Your 602s and room size are in between, so you might need to consider where you might be moving in the future. If you can afford the 600 I'd go with that. If not go with the 60. Have you listened to either yet? Did you notice a difference? And if so, did you have a preference?


I'm sorry, I don't think any of the above will really help you decide which to buy. One thing I do know is people usually do not regret buying the best speaker they can afford. But people do sometimes regret getting something they cannot quite afford. So, I'd get the lcr600 if you can afford it, and the lcr60 if budget dictates.


function12,
I was initially in a similar quandry. Fortunately, the place where I got my BWs a couple of years ago allowed me to do a fairly extensive a/b testing at their place. You might want to bring a couple of cds that you know real well and play them doing a somewhat blind test with someone changing operating the a/b switch for you to get a better feel of the sound matching.

Just a thought for you to consider. This way, you never really are second guessing your own ears vs someone else's perspective.

..Mark
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post #187 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by function12 View Post

I have 602 S3 for FL and FR and 601 S3 for RL and RR plus a MK sub. My question is what LCR should I get LCR60 or LCR600? My room is 14 by 22.

dknightd made some excellent points. I haven't heard either speaker either but I'm in a similar boat as I'd like a matching center for my 604's. I would agree that the 600 is probably the better bet if you can afford it. That is just based on the fact that the drivers of the 600 are closer in size (and therefore probably closer in sound characterics) to the 602.

I also remember gonig from a smaller MTM 5" driver center to a big dual 6" diriver center in the Infinity line (Interludes) and realizing a huge improvement in spaciousness and lack of boxiness.....if that makes any sense. Of course they were completely different speakers but I believe a bigger center presents a better image for HT. Something like 70% of a soundtrack is projected through the center channel. Not a place I'd want to skimp if movies are a priority.

But I'm sure you'll hear over and over again that you should go listen to both yourself and ,if possible, get a loaner to demo in your home with your gear. And there's a reason....it's a good idea. Good luck.
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post #188 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post

Interesting thread.
if I were to pick up a center channel, should I go 800 or 600? Again, it will be just for movies, I don't listen to music in surround.

Stay Positive,

Chris


Thanks for sharing an actual story Chris.

So in my vein of making suggestions without hearing the actual speakers I'd go with the 800. If budget allows the HTM3S seems to be a perfect match with the 804. Same drivers and same FST midrange. However if the funds aren't there the HTM4 would probably do the trick. If I were in your shoes I'd have to hear the LCR 600 in my own setup before making a decision on how it matched up with the 804's. But if it was close enough for me I'd definately take the opportunity to save the extra cash (to be put towards music and movies of course).
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post #189 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 08:32 PM
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Anyone have experience with 805 Matrix bookshelf speakers? I know they are discontinued. I'm wondering how long that has been and what they retailed for. I may try to pick up a pair used. They are 11 years old - should I be concerned by age? They appear to be in near perfect shape. I would likely use in a 2.0 config with no sub for time being. Thanks.
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post #190 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droht View Post

Anyone have experience with 805 Matrix bookshelf speakers? I know they are discontinued. I'm wondering how long that has been and what they retailed for. I may try to pick up a pair used. They are 11 years old - should I be concerned by age? They appear to be in near perfect shape. I would likely use in a 2.0 config with no sub for time being. Thanks.


I cannot give you a definite, however, there are two things that I might think about.

1. Capacitor
2. Woofer surround

Typically capacitors in the crossover lose their storage capacity over time. I have absolutely no idea how this affects sound quality.

Woofer surrounds typically dry up and crack over time. Just something to look for. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable about buying older speakers will chime in.

Other than those two things I can think about, if you like the sound and look, they should serve you well!
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post #191 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 09:34 PM
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I recently listened to a pair of 703's versus a pair of 804's. Call me crazy but I thought that the 804's sounded less airy and more boxy and boomy. Am I crazy???? I like the looks of the 804's better. I listen to television and DVD's. No surround or center channel.
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post #192 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 10:46 PM
 
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where can i get some prices or can someone give me rough prices either here or through pm dont want to go to the shop and them tell me their like 3 grand a piece and just walk out looking like a bum lol

im intrested in the 800,700,600 and cm series
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post #193 of 19233 Old 11-29-2006, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Sm View Post

the CM7's are going to strike you as quite the value then.

are these models , the CM7's, at dealers now? I'm curious to hear the difference between these and Energy RC-Series (RC-30's are fairly equivalent in driver configuration and dimension).

Actually, when I test-listened to an NAD pre-amp/amp set (C162/C272), the sales-rep (at "Sound Factor") ask me what speakers I have, and I mentioned Energy. So he grabbed a pair of BMW 600 towers (I believe either DM603 S3's or DM604 S3's) saying these are the closest thing to your Energy's (sound-wise, I guess). They sounded very nice with the NAD pair- very accurate, nice detailed sound-stage.

So I'm curious if the CM7's sound as good, or better, or what? Or would the DM603 S3's or DM604 S3's be better?

I would consider a complete 5.1 set of whichever type.

Matter of fact I just saw this reveiw on the DM604-S3's, kind of interesting:
http://www.avrev.com/equip/b_w_dm604s3/index.html
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post #194 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 05:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1loudsuv View Post

where can i get some prices or can someone give me rough prices either here or through pm dont want to go to the shop and them tell me their like 3 grand a piece and just walk out looking like a bum lol

im intrested in the 800,700,600 and cm series

I don't know all the prices, but the ones I do know are: 602=$600/pr, 604=$1400/pr, 705=$1500/pr, 805=$2500/pr, CM1=$900/pr.
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post #195 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 05:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatswillie123 View Post

I recently listened to a pair of 703's versus a pair of 804's. Call me crazy but I thought that the 804's sounded less airy and more boxy and boomy. Am I crazy???? I like the looks of the 804's better. I listen to television and DVD's. No surround or center channel.

I certainly don't think you are crazy. I love my 705's, and the 805's most definitely did not sound enough better that I would be willing to spend an extra $1000 on them.
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post #196 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatswillie123 View Post

I recently listened to a pair of 703's versus a pair of 804's. Call me crazy but I thought that the 804's sounded less airy and more boxy and boomy. Am I crazy???? I like the looks of the 804's better. I listen to television and DVD's. No surround or center channel.

Perhaps the 804's were not set up idealy. In my listening, the 804 was cleaner sounding than the 703. I came to the opposite conclusion in my audition. The 703 sounded more boxy, but not more boomy. I used the same electronics and the same locations in the same room.

I would say the 804s was slightly warmer in the mid bass. Probably +2db @ 100hz +/- 15hz but that was by ear, not by measured values.

Pulliamm -- thats similar to what you said when you had the 602 and the speakers before. Over time, your ears may start to pick out more details and the differences become more pronounced as you become more critical.
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post #197 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1loudsuv View Post

where can i get some prices or can someone give me rough prices either here or through pm dont want to go to the shop and them tell me their like 3 grand a piece and just walk out looking like a bum lol

im intrested in the 800,700,600 and cm series

I think these numbers are correct (I know the 700s are right):

700 Series

703: $3,000/pr
704: $2,200/pr
705: $1,500/pr

HTM7 center: $750

DS7 surround: $1,500/pr

ASW750 sub: $1,600
ASW700 sub: $1,300


800 Series

800D: $20,000/pr
801D: $16,000/pr
802D: $12,000/pr
803D: $8,000/pr
803S: $5,500/pr
804S: $4,000/pr
805S: $2,500/pr

HTM1D center: $8,000
HTM2D center: $4,000
HTM3S center: $2,500
HTM4S center: $1,300

DS8S surround: $3,000/pr
SCMS surround: $2,200/pr

ASW855 sub: $3,300
ASW825 sub: $2,500


From my experience and the comments of others, you can probably expect a discount of 10 to 15 percent. I say go straight for the 800Ds!
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post #198 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 07:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

Over time, your ears may start to pick out more details and the differences become more pronounced as you become more critical.

I hope not. I have spent way too much on speakers already, and I hope never to upgrade again.
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post #199 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy09 View Post

Thanks for sharing an actual story Chris.

So in my vein of making suggestions without hearing the actual speakers I'd go with the 800. If budget allows the HTM3S seems to be a perfect match with the 804. Same drivers and same FST midrange. However if the funds aren't there the HTM4 would probably do the trick.


Thanks man.

The HTM3S is a little out of budget right now, and to be truthful since I've gone so long without a center channel I'm reluctant to spend so much on one. That being said when I move into a larger area a great center would be a good thing...

The HTM4 isn't too expensive, I could probably trade it/sell it easy enough if I want to upgrade...

Thanks again,

Chris
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post #200 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I hope not. I have spent way too much on speakers already, and I hope never to upgrade again.


IMO the only real way to do this is to stay far away from all audio stores, audio forums, and magazines. Otherwise your inquisitiveness (is that a word) will lead you towards bigger and brighter things. I highly suggest NOT getting the free 800 series DVD from B&W unless you are prepared to strongly desire the 800 series. Of course, I'm an engineer so it appealed to me. That DVD is what precipitated my foray back over to B&W.

-Chris
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post #201 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 09:56 AM
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My setup consists of 603 S3 for fronts, LCR 600 S3 for center, ASW 675 for sub and 601 S3 for surrounds and rear surrounds. All driven by a NAD T773.
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post #202 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

That must be one heck of an office!

It was a nice space. I basically split it up into half office and half music/movie/TV area. Then I traded in the 700 surround setup for the 802Ds and moved the office around a bit (basically switched areas so that the 802Ds had more space. Now, as you know from previous threads, my office is just a desk in the rest of the basement while my previous office space/listening space is being turned into a Home Theatre. No one showed up today to do any work, which is very frustrating to say the least. Perhaps deciding to save money by being my own contractor wasn't such a great idea after all.

Now my office has only the Niro SSU400 as a virtual surround system on the computer monitor. The cool thing is that when the home theatre is finished I'll have my PC (Microsoft) system hooked up in the home theatre for gaming. I can do all of my web browsing and computer things from there if I choose. The one problem is that I like using the Apple Mac for all of my financial work, though I could switch it to the PC. I do wonder though, if the distance from the projected image will make using the projected screen too difficult for my usage because of font sizes, etc. Hooking up both is always an option, but it would waste a lot of space in my already tight equipment closet.

The new dual boot Mac option (since macs now use the x86 architecture) is a possiblity, but then my PC specifications would suck compared to a high end PC system. I build my own PCs and when I upgrade my PC I go all out on the parts and with overclocking the system. Once Vista is released and the new generation of video cards with HDCP decoding and HDMI hookups are on the market, I plan on building a quad GPU system (two cards with dual GPUs) on the newest Intel Core2 Extreme Edition out at that time. I'll likely install a water cooling system for the CPU and chipset so I can overclock the CPU and memory bus speed as well. Unfortunately, I can't water cool the GPUs in a situation like this because no water cooling system I have seen covers four GPUs, though I could custom build my own if I had the time to put in that kind of effort (mostly a bigger pump would be needed to compensate for the extra lines needed for each GPU cooling block).

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post #203 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatswillie123 View Post

I recently listened to a pair of 703's versus a pair of 804's. Call me crazy but I thought that the 804's sounded less airy and more boxy and boomy. Am I crazy???? I like the looks of the 804's better. I listen to television and DVD's. No surround or center channel.

I liked the 703s better than the 804s also. The one advantage with the 804s though is that the 700 series center channel doesn't match up with the 703 very well. I owned the 703 and the HTM7 at one point and felt that the synergy between them was not there. You could really tell with the AVIA disc sound-ball that they were not matched to each other very well at all. Music, more than movies, revealed these issues. The 804S however does have the 800 series centers and the HTM3S matches up well with the 804S and the 803S. So, IMO, if you can't afford the 803 but can afford the 804 and the HTM3S (with perhaps the 805s as surrounds) then you would be better off with those in a surround music setup than with the 703 and HTM7. If you are only using it for moives though, the 703s and the HTM7s are likely not going to be a huge problem IMO. If you can afford the 803S with the HTM3S, then that would be cool.

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post #204 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I don't know all the prices, but the ones I do know are: 602=$600/pr, 604=$1400/pr, 705=$1500/pr, 805=$2500/pr, CM1=$900/pr.

603=$1000/pair

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post #205 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I certainly don't think you are crazy. I love my 705's, and the 805's most definitely did not sound enough better that I would be willing to spend an extra $1000 on them.

He is discussing something different PULLIAMM. To him in comparing the 703 to the 804 (not the 705 and 805) he felt that the 703s sounded better than the 804s, not that the 804 sounded a little better and that the sound difference wasn't worth the difference in price. I point this out because he is not the only person to notice this with those two particular speakers. I noticed the same thing between these two speakers when demoing both of them and I've mentioned it more than a few times on these fora. I bought the 703s because to me they sounded better than the 804s, which is the same thing he is noticing.

One thing I did notice though, is that the high-end on the 703s is a little harsher, while the 804s were a little smoother in the high-end. Ultimately, if I went back in time, knowing what I know now, I would have bought the 803S and the HTM3S, or if I could't go that high in price, the 804S with the HTM3S, simply for suround music. The HTM3S is definitely a better match with the 804S or 803S, while the HTM7 and the 703 don't sound great together IMO. That is, of course, assuming that I don't end up trading them all in for the 802Ds. I would still keep the 802Ds over all of them at this point. I even chose them over surround sound, since I haven't had surround sound now for over a year because of the trade-in.

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post #206 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Popovich View Post

Thanks man.

The HTM3S is a little out of budget right now, and to be truthful since I've gone so long without a center channel I'm reluctant to spend so much on one. That being said when I move into a larger area a great center would be a good thing...

The HTM4 isn't too expensive, I could probably trade it/sell it easy enough if I want to upgrade...

Thanks again,

Chris

If you are going to go with the 804s and the HTM4S, I think your money is best spent on the 703s and HTM7 then. You will have the same type of mismatch between the center channel and the front left and right speakers. I think the 703 sounds better than the 804, which is why I went with those originally. Good luck, and enjoy.

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post #207 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:37 AM
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Out of curiousity...

Has anybody here ever auditioned or owned the Prestige line Model Nautilus? How do they sound?

My B&W dealer doesn't carry them, and according to the dealer locator there's only two within a three state radius of me that does.
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post #208 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hamsey View Post

My setup consists of 603 S3 for fronts, LCR 600 S3 for center, ASW 675 for sub and 601 S3 for surrounds and rear surrounds. All driven by a NAD T773.

Nice! That is a very well-put together system from B&W for ht. You basically guaranteed as best timbre match as you could have by using all the same tweeters and midranges. That sub is quite good as well.
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post #209 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by UMDMatt View Post

Out of curiousity...

Has anybody here ever auditioned or owned the Prestige line Model Nautilus? How do they sound?

My B&W dealer doesn't carry them, and according to the dealer locator there's only two within a three state radius of me that does.

I would love to at some time. While at that level expensive means nothing if you can afford it, not only do you have to shell 40k$ for the speakers you have to provide for 8 amplifiers for each speaker pair :eek;

Frankly, I dig the looks. Many people hate the looks. If i had a spare 120k$ lying around I would definately buy a pair with the associated equipment just to have it.
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post #210 of 19233 Old 11-30-2006, 11:08 AM
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I cannot give you a definite, however, there are two things that I might think about.

1. Capacitor
2. Woofer surround

Typically capacitors in the crossover lose their storage capacity over time. I have absolutely no idea how this affects sound quality.

Only electrolytics leak over time. And I sure HOPE the higher end B&W stuff isn't using electrolytics. I know the 600 series does, but that's why you pay for the higher end stuff - things like poly or foil caps, I'd say almost certainly the 805's crossover capacitors will be fine.

For example, I've used 1930's bees-wax foil/film caps before with success ... and they spec out almost identical to what they should accoring to my LCR meter. One the flip-side, I rebuilt a pair of original Snell Type-A's for a friend, and some of the electrolytics in it were as much as 50% off. That kind of variation can have a HUGE impact on sound, and almost certainly a negative impact.

I was actually kinda surprised a high-end product like the Snell Type-A had electrolytics. Although they were bypassed by foil caps. I guess it's possible B&W did the same with the 805's, electrolytics bypassed with something higher quality, and if so there's a chance they will need replacing.

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