B&W Owner's Thread - Page 801 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24001 of 24025 Old 08-17-2016, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post
Ok I'm a bit confused now. Does the tweeter need to be pointed towards the MLP for Dolby Atmos
It doesn't.

The dispersion characteristics of the speaker determine the maximum tolerable off-axis firing angle. If those are not specified, going for optimal sound, I personally would be careful with going beyond 20 degrees. For down-firing ceiling speakers the Dolby Atmos guidelines specify 45 degrees off-axis dispersion. Only a handful of speakers will actually perform to that level.

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post #24002 of 24025 Old 08-17-2016, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post
Ok I'm a bit confused now. Does the tweeter need to be pointed towards the MLP for Dolby Atmos?
It does not BUT you are not doing an exact Dolby Atmos setup per the specifications that dictate that the fronts, surrounds & rears to all be at "ear level" and the non-diffused "heights" to be placed above so "aimables" might help you compensate for having ALL of your speakers in the ceiling.

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I will use 4 Atmos channels, top front and top rear, in a 7.1.4 configuration. CCM Cinema 7 or CCM7.4?
I would recommend the "in-wall" CWM7.5 model for surrounds & rears (as I did) rather than ONLY in-ceilings. I used the older CCM65 for my ceiling speaker (the point 4 part)

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Last edited by ndabunka; 08-17-2016 at 07:00 PM.
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post #24003 of 24025 Old 08-17-2016, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Did those discussions brought up additional information on the Cinema7 speakers that you can share with us?
Ha. No new information other than they feel it would be satisfactory for my situation. The reason being that speakers are such wide dispersion that they are designed in that manner. Pointing down helps with the illusion that the sound isn't coming from the ceiling versus a greater angle. These Atlantic speakers are similar with 15* angle. I do not agree at this point as I struggle with the fundamental idea of the speakers being pointed primarily at the floor. I'd really need to listen in my space, which isn't really easy with any option. Perhaps the angle helps with the illusion as sound bounces off the floor before it reaches my ears making it sound lower.

I am also considering the CCM 7.4 as my main front speakers. I have a concern that these are too much speaker for me. Meaning, I have a worry that only high quality recordings will sound good when I listen and watch lower quality stuff. There is also the larger price. Any chance that these will be replaced with a new model soon as they've been on the market for some time? I'm not as picky as others on this board as to my sound. I want it to sound clear, crisp, and not from ceiling.

No decisions have been made and I have also re-opened my consideration beyond B&W. I've recently been reading a lot on the Goldenear Invisa HTR-7000. These speakers have the appropriate angle and have a lot of rave reviews. They'd also costs significantly less (~$1000). As of today these are my contenders (Cinema 7, CCM 7.4, GE 7000). Any others that I should consider?

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post #24004 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
It does not BUT you are not doing an exact Dolby Atmos setup per the specifications that dictate that the fronts, surrounds & rears to all be at "ear level" and the non-diffused "heights" to be placed above so "aimables" might help you compensate for having ALL of your speakers in the ceiling.


I would recommend the "in-wall" CWM7.5 model for surrounds & rears (as I did) rather than ONLY in-ceilings. I used the older CCM65 for my ceiling speaker (the point 4 part)
Where exactly did I mention that ALL of my speakers are in the ceiling?
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post #24005 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 04:18 AM
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Where exactly did I mention that ALL of my speakers are in the ceiling?
I don't recall you mentioning any other speakers than the Ceiling CCM7.5 vs. Cinema 7's Perhaps I missed a post of two of yours?

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post #24006 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 05:16 AM
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Since this is page 801, I've got to just post!!!! I don't own B&W 801's but I've admired them for many years!!!!! Cheers B&W fans!!!!
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post #24007 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
I don't recall you mentioning any other speakers than the Ceiling CCM7.5 vs. Cinema 7's Perhaps I missed a post of two of yours?
So any speaker (or any other piece of gear for that matter) a forum member does NOT mention in his posts, he does not own or is not part of his plans? That sure is an assumption bound for causing a lot of confusion.

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post #24008 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 07:50 AM
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In posts 23987 and 24000 you can clearly see I'm talking about Dolby Atmos.

But OK, misunderstandings can happen, no worries.
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post #24009 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 09:42 AM
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So any speaker (or any other piece of gear for that matter) a forum member does NOT mention in his posts, he does not own or is not part of his plans? That sure is an assumption bound for causing a lot of confusion.
It may well be my mis-understanding. In reviewing the thread, I was interacting with HaroldMiner about his decision on using either Cinema 7's vs. CCM7.5s for his front LRC. I was thinking that this was the same poster talking about his plans for the rear or surrouds so it was me jumping to conclusion that he might also be trying to use in-ceiling for not just those front 3 speakers but for the other components of the 7.1.x application.

I now see that this is a "new player" in this conversation who was asking a very similar question Cin7 vs. CCM7.5 but for Atmos heights ONLY. I did not realize the new player
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post #24010 of 24025 Old 08-18-2016, 11:07 PM
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Thanks for the idea, prerich. In honor of page 801:



And a couple of belated posts for page 800:



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post #24011 of 24025 Old 08-19-2016, 05:52 PM
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Thanks for the idea, prerich. In honor of page 801:



And a couple of belated posts for page 800:



Nice, classy looking room Jon.
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post #24012 of 24025 Old 08-19-2016, 08:16 PM
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Nice, classy looking room Jon.
Thanks. I designed and built the entire room myself. The waiscoting, mantle, etc, are solid mahogany milled from raw lumber in my basement shop. It's a very nice environment to watch movies and listen to music while sipping single malt Scotch or smooth Kentucky bourbon. Stop by for a drink, bring you favorite music. Here's a couple more:





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post #24013 of 24025 Old 08-19-2016, 11:20 PM
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Thanks. I designed and built the entire room myself. The waiscoting, mantle, etc, are solid mahogany milled from raw lumber in my basement shop. It's a very nice environment to watch movies and listen to music while sipping single malt Scotch or smooth Kentucky bourbon. Stop by for a drink, bring you favorite music. Here's a couple more:













Beautiful, . But why you don't have a center?



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post #24014 of 24025 Old 08-20-2016, 07:35 AM
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Beautiful, . But why you don't have a center?



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I decided against it because the front speakers aren't that far apart as to need one. Also, I wanted the standard high end audio setup of the front power amp in the middle. Cost was also a minor issue, as the matching center runs bout $5K. I actually prewired for a center, as well as ICs for a second sub up front, and also wires for rear surrounds, but opted for just a 4.1 setup. It works great.
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post #24015 of 24025 Old Yesterday, 05:24 AM
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B&W Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
I decided against it because the front speakers aren't that far apart as to need one. Also, I wanted the standard high end audio setup of the front power amp in the middle. Cost was also a minor issue, as the matching center runs bout $5K. I actually prewired for a center, as well as ICs for a second sub up front, and also wires for rear surrounds, but opted for just a 4.1 setup. It works great.


Those speakers deliver a phantom center better than almost any speakers I've heard. Amazing room ... I'm jealous.


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post #24016 of 24025 Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM
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Those speakers deliver a phantom center better than almost any speakers I've heard. Amazing room ... I'm jealous.


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Thanks! It was envisioned as a multi-purpose room from the start. I've always wanted a nice home theater/high end audio room, but really didn't want an all black cave. Also wanted a place to display some of my photography, which has been a long time hobby. The area was completely unfinished in my basement, the screen wall and the right wall with the fireplace were just solid concrete foundation. The walls are two layers of drywall, so quite rigid. There are 25(!) lights in the ceiling. One circuit is for the ambient cans, one circuit of low voltage halogens for the photos, and the third circuit of four halogens, one spot for each speaker, one on the Bryston, the last on the turntable. Lots of planning, lots of time. Woodworking has also been a favorite hobby, and I wanted to build the entire room out as a kind of masterpiece work. The cabinets and mantle are original designs, the mantle was inspired by a magazine photo. The photos are ones that span 35 years. There's one on the back wall of the Grand Canyon taken during a Spring storm in March, 1979, with my old Olympus OM-1 and Kodachrome 25. The largest prints are 20x24, taken with my Zone VI 4x5 view camera. The camera now is displayed on its wooden tripod in the corner near the left front speaker. All in all, it may be a bit over the top.

However, it's not clear to me that a center speaker wouldn't improve the home theater performance. I'll stand pat for now, but it's certainly a legitimate question.
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post #24017 of 24025 Old Yesterday, 05:26 PM
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However, it's not clear to me that a center speaker wouldn't improve the home theater performance. I'll stand pat for now, but it's certainly a legitimate question.
I've been down that road i.e. phantom center. My dealer suggested it to me before I started my B&W purchases thinking if I liked it I could save some money. That was with my former Paradigm Reference system and I've since done the experiment with my 802D2's before I had the 800D2's and the 800D2's. As incapable as the HTM2D2 is at truly running with the 802's and 800's in outright performance a phantom center in my experience, all 3 scenarios I've experimented with is simply no substitute for a true center speaker. I've typically observed that those that say a phantom center does just as good a job have either never run such a system (multi-channel with dedicated center) or have never set it up properly. Don't get me wrong the 802's, 800's and my Paradigm Studio 100's created a perfect phantom center image tripping up anyone I've asked the "tell me where the sound is coming from" test on stereo sources. Where the phantom falls short, well short is on sources that actually have a dedicated center channel, I've yet to encounter a 2 channel setup produce that locked in perfectly focused dialog in movies, there's always some left/right bleeding and also in audio sequences where the sound is slowly panning 360 degrees around you I can always hear where a phantom lets me down when the panning goes across the front.


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post #24018 of 24025 Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM
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I've been down that road i.e. phantom center. My dealer suggested it to me before I started my B&W purchases thinking if I liked it I could save some money. That was with my former Paradigm Reference system and I've since done the experiment with my 802D2's before I had the 800D2's and the 800D2's. As incapable as the HTM2D2 is at truly running with the 802's and 800's in outright performance a phantom center in my experience, all 3 scenarios I've experimented with is simply no substitute for a true center speaker. I've typically observed that those that say a phantom center does just as good a job have either never run such a system (multi-channel with dedicated center) or have never set it up properly. Don't get me wrong the 802's, 800's and my Paradigm Studio 100's created a perfect phantom center image tripping up anyone I've asked the "tell me where the sound is coming from" test on stereo sources. Where the phantom falls short, well short is on sources that actually have a dedicated center channel, I've yet to encounter a 2 channel setup produce that locked in perfectly focused dialog in movies, there's always some left/right bleeding and also in audio sequences where the sound is slowly panning 360 degrees around you I can always hear where a phantom lets me down when the panning goes across the front.
I think you're correct. A phantom center works fine when the listener is mid way between the speakers, which I almost always am. It falls off more the farther one is from the center line. However, I decided that I didn't want a center channel handling 85% of the soundtrack, thus relegating the $24,000 800D2s to 7.5% of the sound reproduction each. It's a compromise, but I want to hear the 800D2s.
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post #24019 of 24025 Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
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Thanks. I designed and built the entire room myself. The waiscoting, mantle, etc, are solid mahogany milled from raw lumber in my basement shop.
It's impressive that you had the talent to both envision the design and to mill the various wood pieces. You should be proud! My Dad (God rest his soul) was an accomplished wood craftsmen as a hobby, from that experience I understand a bit of what you had to do. I like what you've done, my dad would have been so impressed!

Quote:
It's a very nice environment to watch movies and listen to music while sipping single malt Scotch or smooth Kentucky bourbon.
It looks like great place to watch and listen. I just bought a house that needs renovation and your room has provided some inspiration. I just informed my wife that I would like to do something similar with a particular room that would suit the purpose. She considers it a real possibility after viewing your photos. I'm not kidding!

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Stop by for a drink, bring you favorite music.
I'd like that, and I know it would sound good; we have identical speakers. But it's a long way from Michigan to Utah!
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post #24020 of 24025 Old Today, 02:58 PM
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It's impressive that you had the talent to both envision the design and to mill the various wood pieces. You should be proud! My Dad (God rest his soul) was an accomplished wood craftsmen as a hobby, from that experience I understand a bit of what you had to do. I like what you've done, my dad would have been so impressed!





It looks like great place to watch and listen. I just bought a house that needs renovation and your room has provided some inspiration. I just informed my wife that I would like to do something similar with a particular room that would suit the purpose. She considers it a real possibility after viewing your photos. I'm not kidding!





I'd like that, and I know it would sound good; we have identical speakers. But it's a long way from Michigan to Utah!


even longer from NJ :-(
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post #24021 of 24025 Old Today, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
I've been down that road i.e. phantom center. My dealer suggested it to me before I started my B&W purchases thinking if I liked it I could save some money. That was with my former Paradigm Reference system and I've since done the experiment with my 802D2's before I had the 800D2's and the 800D2's. As incapable as the HTM2D2 is at truly running with the 802's and 800's in outright performance a phantom center in my experience, all 3 scenarios I've experimented with is simply no substitute for a true center speaker. I've typically observed that those that say a phantom center does just as good a job have either never run such a system (multi-channel with dedicated center) or have never set it up properly. Don't get me wrong the 802's, 800's and my Paradigm Studio 100's created a perfect phantom center image tripping up anyone I've asked the "tell me where the sound is coming from" test on stereo sources. Where the phantom falls short, well short is on sources that actually have a dedicated center channel, I've yet to encounter a 2 channel setup produce that locked in perfectly focused dialog in movies, there's always some left/right bleeding and also in audio sequences where the sound is slowly panning 360 degrees around you I can always hear where a phantom lets me down when the panning goes across the front.


I totally agree with this ... I was just saying the phantom center on those speakers ... specifically when listening to stereo musical vocals is astonishing.
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even longer from NJ :-(


Where in NJ? I'm down south. Close to AC

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
Pioneer Elite VSX-44 AVR, MiniDSP 2x4 HD DAP, Rythmik LV12R SW, B&W 684 Mains, B&W 685 Surrounds, B&W CM Center, Polk T15 Heights, Yamaha NS-AP2800S Rears
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Up north .. Bergen County
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B&W 685 S2
Rotel RA-12
Logitech Z-5500 Subwoofer
Asus Xonar D2/PM
B&W P7 Headphones
Fiio E12 Mont Blanc
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