B&W Owner's Thread - Page 829 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #24841 of 24869 Old 05-17-2017, 09:13 AM
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Ive decided to go with the CM10 s2 for my listening room. Any recommendations on dealers near the NYC area who will give me a good deal on the speakers. No one I call wants to deal. I don't want to buy from Magnolia but at least I can go to a 3.5% tax store in NJ, and get 10% reward zone.
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post #24842 of 24869 Old 05-17-2017, 10:17 AM
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I'd like to hear some well thought out opinions, not "X is best", on using:

Rotel RB-1590 - 2ch http://www.rotel.com/product/rb-1590
Rotel RMB-1585 - 5ch http://www.rotel.com/product/rmb-1585

vs

Parasound Halo JC1 - Mono x2 http://www.parasound.com/jc1.php
Parasound Halo A51 - 5ch http://www.parasound.com/a51.php

vs

Classé CA-M600 - Mono x3 https://classeaudio.com/ca-m600/
Classé CA-2300 - 2ch https://classeaudio.com/ca-5300/


For a 802 D2 7.2 Home Theater:

Fronts: 802 D2
Center: HTM2
Surround Side: 804 D2
Surround Rear: 804 D2

I can get Rotel for nearly 1/3 of the price of Parasound, and I can get Parasound for 1/2 the price of Classé. (Classe 6x price of Rotel)


Patrick, do you have any unbiased thoughts x)?


I know it's said Rotel & Classé is supposed to be a good match with B&W in general, but what about Parasound?


I was told by a local dealer that Classé CA-M600 was going to be discontinued. Is that true? @Patrick Butler

-Dan

Last edited by Mephobia; 05-17-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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post #24843 of 24869 Old 05-17-2017, 01:28 PM
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I have heard overall good things about Classe. Personally I won't buy it because at those price points they shouldn't be making the product in China. I understand Rotel being made in China since the price is much more reasonable. What's next...800 series made in China?
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post #24844 of 24869 Old 05-17-2017, 02:06 PM
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Hi Mephobia,

All three brands make products that I'd be happy to listen to with the speakers that you are using/considering.

When I demonstrate Rotel versus Classé for dealers who attend our trainings in Boston, the audible differences are quite clear. The noise floor is lower, the soundstage is larger and more three dimensional, images are better rendered, and dynamics (large and small) are more apparent. At the point at which my dealers hear Classé, they've been listening to various Rotel products in a step-up style demonstration for around 40 minutes, and I don't think anyone walks away thinking Rotel isn't an outstanding level. But if you want to get to the next level- it will cost you.

Regarding Parasound versus Rotel, I'd say it depends on what kind of listener you are. Parasound is a little cooler sounding, while Rotel is a little warmer sounding. Difference of degrees.

Classé has discontinued the CA-M600 and CP-800, with the new Delta 3 range of products shipping in the Fall. Completely new designs input through output.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephobia View Post
I'd like to hear some well thought out opinions, not "X is best", on using:

Rotel RB-1590 - 2ch http://www.rotel.com/product/rb-1590
Rotel RMB-1585 - 5ch http://www.rotel.com/product/rmb-1585

vs

Parasound Halo JC1 - Mono x2 http://www.parasound.com/jc1.php
Parasound Halo A51 - 5ch http://www.parasound.com/a51.php

vs

Classé CA-M600 - Mono x3 https://classeaudio.com/ca-m600/
Classé CA-2300 - 2ch https://classeaudio.com/ca-5300/


For a 802 D2 7.2 Home Theater:

Fronts: 802 D2
Center: HTM2
Surround Side: 804 D2
Surround Rear: 804 D2

I can get Rotel for nearly 1/3 of the price of Parasound, and I can get Parasound for 1/2 the price of Classé. (Classe 6x price of Rotel)


Patrick, do you have any unbiased thoughts x)?


I know it's said Rotel & Classé is supposed to be a good match with B&W in general, but what about Parasound?


I was told by a local dealer that Classé CA-M600 was going to be discontinued. Is that true? @Patrick Butler
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post #24845 of 24869 Old 05-17-2017, 07:40 PM
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Looks like the new Classe gear is going to be a lot more expensive than the current units. From what I am reading the pre/pro will be $9000 and the 2 channel amp $10000.
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post #24846 of 24869 Old 05-17-2017, 08:01 PM
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Thank you for your valuable input Patrick. It has certainly helped me make up my mind.

I'll start off with a Rotel combo and see when the new Delta 3 series is out if I'm a next level kind of guy or not.

-Dan
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post #24847 of 24869 Old 05-18-2017, 04:05 AM
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Early news had prices headed in that direction. More recent news has the prices significantly lower than first anticipated. We will see what things look like once Classé is closer to production. As an aside, I heard a prototype of the upcoming Delta Pre (CP-800 replacement) and let's say-it's a worthy successor.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

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Originally Posted by mpatel1080 View Post
Looks like the new Classe gear is going to be a lot more expensive than the current units. From what I am reading the pre/pro will be $9000 and the 2 channel amp $10000.
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post #24848 of 24869 Old 05-19-2017, 08:16 AM
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Hi all,

I need some center speaker advice please...

I just purchased a pair of the B&W 804 D3. I will be using them for playing music as well as for my home theater.
Due to my configuration of TV, projection screen, etc. I do not have too much space for a center speaker.
I was planning to buy the B&W CM Centre 2 S2, because it would fit exactly in the space I have. However I was told that this center speaker would not be timbre matching the main speakers. The recommendation was to go with the HTM2 D3.

Does anyone have experience if the HTM2 D3 would be far superior than the CM series center speaker?
Would the 804 D3 and the CM center speaker have strong noticeable tonal differences?

Any advice is welcome!
(Sorry for the double post...)

Thanks, Dan
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post #24849 of 24869 Old 05-19-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesselmarder View Post
Hi all,

I need some center speaker advice please...

I just purchased a pair of the B&W 804 D3. I will be using them for playing music as well as for my home theater.
Due to my configuration of TV, projection screen, etc. I do not have too much space for a center speaker.
I was planning to buy the B&W CM Centre 2 S2, because it would fit exactly in the space I have. However I was told that this center speaker would not be timbre matching the main speakers. The recommendation was to go with the HTM2 D3.

Does anyone have experience if the HTM2 D3 would be far superior than the CM series center speaker?
Would the 804 D3 and the CM center speaker have strong noticeable tonal differences?

Any advice is welcome!
(Sorry for the double post...)

Thanks, Dan
Look at the frequency range and response of the 804 D3 speakers then look at the range and frequency response of The HTM2 D3 followed by the frequency range and response of the CM centre 2 S2 and you will see that they are not even close. Then you are comparing diamond tweeters ,Continuum cones and Aerofoil cones to Aluminum, Kevlar and paper. Totally different sound, you spent the money on the 800 series for your mains complement them with the correctly matched timbre center. Your system will end up being nice. Why not put the HTM2 on stand on the floor in front of the screen? What does your room look like and how are the speakers placed? maybe some pics will help?
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post #24850 of 24869 Old 05-20-2017, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesselmarder View Post
Hi all,

I need some center speaker advice please...

I just purchased a pair of the B&W 804 D3. I will be using them for playing music as well as for my home theater.
Due to my configuration of TV, projection screen, etc. I do not have too much space for a center speaker.
I was planning to buy the B&W CM Centre 2 S2, because it would fit exactly in the space I have. However I was told that this center speaker would not be timbre matching the main speakers. The recommendation was to go with the HTM2 D3.

Does anyone have experience if the HTM2 D3 would be far superior than the CM series center speaker?
Would the 804 D3 and the CM center speaker have strong noticeable tonal differences?

Any advice is welcome!
(Sorry for the double post...)

Thanks, Dan
I have a pair of B&W 804 D3 as front L/R and an HTM2 D3 as the center. The HTM2 D3 is a perfect match for the 804s. The CM Centre 2 S2 is a nice speaker; I have it in another room with other CM speakers. But you really should get the HTM2 to go with your 804s. My setup didn't have room for it at first, so I mounted the TV higher on the wall. It was worth it. I love the HTM2.

Bill Julyan
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post #24851 of 24869 Old 05-21-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesselmarder View Post
Hi all,

I need some center speaker advice please...

I just purchased a pair of the B&W 804 D3. I will be using them for playing music as well as for my home theater.
Due to my configuration of TV, projection screen, etc. I do not have too much space for a center speaker.
I was planning to buy the B&W CM Centre 2 S2, because it would fit exactly in the space I have. However I was told that this center speaker would not be timbre matching the main speakers. The recommendation was to go with the HTM2 D3.

Does anyone have experience if the HTM2 D3 would be far superior than the CM series center speaker?
Would the 804 D3 and the CM center speaker have strong noticeable tonal differences?

Any advice is welcome!
(Sorry for the double post...)

Thanks, Dan
I previously had the 804 D2 matched up with the CM Centre 2 S2 and while it seemed to have worked well, I noticed a very large improvement when I went to the matching Diamond series Center.

Fast Forward a couple of years and I now have the 804D3 and have the HTM2 D3 matching center and did not even consider the CM Center 2. I highly recommend you do a back to back comparison but I think you will wind up with the HTMD3 as it matches the 804d3 perfectly.

Mcintosh C2500, MC302, MC8207
B&W 804D3, HTM2D3
Marantz 7702 mkII
Oppo 203, Sony UBP-X800
Sony XBR75X850C, Sony XBR55X800B (Bedroom) Sunbrite 46 (outside)
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post #24852 of 24869 Old 05-22-2017, 02:44 PM
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Hi Everyone!

I currently have B&W 803 Nautilus speakers. I'm running them in an analog only setup with a Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP tube integrated amp. It sounds great! I've been thinking about upgrading my speakers, and have seen a set of 804D3 at a reasonable price.

Do you think this is a step up? Or, because of the smaller cabinet, will I miss the bass? My room is pretty large. I"m thinking the new D3s will have better imaging and a better overall presentation. But, I'm worried that they will be low on bass, compared to the larger 803s. Am I crazy for considering it? Going to the 803D3 is not in the budget.

Also, the Primaluna runs about 90 WPC, but with great power supplies. Plenty of power for the 803s. Will I need more power to run the 804D3?
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post #24853 of 24869 Old 05-23-2017, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Classé has discontinued the CA-M600 and CP-800, with the new Delta 3 range of products shipping in the Fall. Completely new designs input through output.
I have three follow up question regarding this.

Were these the only products Classé had discontinued?

Is Classé going to continue to produce & sell the CT-M600 and CT-2300 for the forseable future as far as you know?

The CT line is supposed to perform identical to the CA line right?

-Dan
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post #24854 of 24869 Old 05-24-2017, 03:53 AM
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Hi Mephobia,

Delta and CT are discontinued. The upcoming Delta 3 range will be rack mountable, removing the necessity of producing a Delta and CT version of what was the same product internally.

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mephobia View Post
I have three follow up question regarding this.

Were these the only products Classé had discontinued?

Is Classé going to continue to produce & sell the CT-M600 and CT-2300 for the forseable future as far as you know?

The CT line is supposed to perform identical to the CA line right?
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post #24855 of 24869 Old 05-24-2017, 08:23 AM
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Delta and CT are discontinued. The upcoming Delta 3 range will be rack mountable, removing the necessity of producing a Delta and CT version of what was the same product internally.
Aha. Very interesting. I couldn't find much info regarding the new Delta 3 range. Will Delta 3 also have a 600w mono as well or will 300w mono be the only mono in the line? If so, would that be sufficient to drive a 800 D3 hypothetically or would you need 2?

-Dan
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post #24856 of 24869 Old 05-24-2017, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mephobia View Post
Aha. Very interesting. I couldn't find much info regarding the new Delta 3 range. Will Delta 3 also have a 600w mono as well or will 300w mono be the only mono in the line? If so, would that be sufficient to drive a 800 D3 hypothetically or would you need 2?
The 800D3 has the same sensitivity, 90dB, as the 800D2. I can't stay in the same room at full volume with my 4B SST2 driving my D2s. Of course, it's a Bryston, and so conservatively rated, putting out 330WPC at clipping according to the Final Checkout sheet. Not sure what a Classe would do, but I'd guess any 300WPC amp would be more than enough. If you care about your hearing, that is.

I was poking around the Bryston website just now and couldn't find my 4B SST2 listed. That's because they've updated to the 4B3, or "Cubed". The price has increased to $5700, while the 600W monoblock 7B3 is the same price, or $11400/pair. The amps have a redesigned input stage that's supposed to increase soundstage width and depth, as well as improve detail in the upper bass/lower midrange. I've long been a Bryston fan. If I were in the market, I'd go with the rock solid Canadian amp at 57% of the cost of the Chinese product and pocket the difference. Or, maybe some Bourbon.

Last edited by Jon Middleton; 05-25-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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post #24857 of 24869 Old 05-25-2017, 08:24 PM
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Hello experts. I am planning to drive nearly 500 miles to pick up a pair of used B&W CM 10s. Can you help me with few questions?
1. What is the best way to test the speakers and make sure everything is fine with them? I'll be asking the seller to plug them in for me.
2. What is the best way to transport them back? I'll be driving and have suv (with other luggages). Of course I am planning to buy bubble wrap from WalMart to wrap them.
Any help or advice will be deeply appreciated. Thanks
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post #24858 of 24869 Old Yesterday, 09:25 AM
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Hi Mephobia,

The Delta Mono will be the only mono amplifier in the series, and effectively replaces the CA/CT-M600. This amplifier will produce 300W/600W/950W continuously into 8/4/2Ohm loads. I've been using 2 samples to drive 800D3 since last year, and they do so effortlessly. Sonically they are a big improvement over the CA-M600 for a few reasons. Greater power is available in Class A operation (35W versus about 2W in the old CA-M600) which improves linearity, and more continous power at lower impedances is quite useful for speakers that present challenging loads at certain frequencies.

The engineering staff in Quebec have really outdone themselves!

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America

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Originally Posted by Mephobia View Post
Aha. Very interesting. I couldn't find much info regarding the new Delta 3 range. Will Delta 3 also have a 600w mono as well or will 300w mono be the only mono in the line? If so, would that be sufficient to drive a 800 D3 hypothetically or would you need 2?
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post #24859 of 24869 Old Today, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi Mephobia,

The Delta Mono will be the only mono amplifier in the series, and effectively replaces the CA/CT-M600. This amplifier will produce 300W/600W/950W continuously into 8/4/2Ohm loads. I've been using 2 samples to drive 800D3 since last year, and they do so effortlessly. Sonically they are a big improvement over the CA-M600 for a few reasons. Greater power is available in Class A operation (35W versus about 2W in the old CA-M600) which improves linearity, and more continous power at lower impedances is quite useful for speakers that present challenging loads at certain frequencies.

The engineering staff in Quebec have really outdone themselves!

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America
So, am I reading this correctly? One must choose between 300W monoblocks for $18000, or 600W monoblocks for $11400. That can't be right.
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post #24860 of 24869 Old Today, 10:26 AM
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It's the 42lb difference between the two amps.

Patrick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Middleton View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi Mephobia,

The Delta Mono will be the only mono amplifier in the series, and effectively replaces the CA/CT-M600. This amplifier will produce 300W/600W/950W continuously into 8/4/2Ohm loads. I've been using 2 samples to drive 800D3 since last year, and they do so effortlessly. Sonically they are a big improvement over the CA-M600 for a few reasons. Greater power is available in Class A operation (35W versus about 2W in the old CA-M600) which improves linearity, and more continous power at lower impedances is quite useful for speakers that present challenging loads at certain frequencies.

The engineering staff in Quebec have really outdone themselves!

Regards,

Patrick
B&W Group North America
So, am I reading this correctly? One must choose between 300W monoblocks for $18000, or 600W monoblocks for $11400. That can't be right.
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post #24861 of 24869 Old Today, 03:12 PM
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It's the 42lb difference between the two amps.

Patrick
You're one up on me, Patrick, well, maybe more than one, in that I can't find the weight of the new Classe monoblocks. The Bryston 7B3 weighs 42#, or a mere $136/lb. I actually like buying my amps by the pound, or maybe by the watt. I got a much better deal on my Bryston 4B SST2 than my friend did on his Ayre. Mine weighs 56# and cost $4500, or $80/lb, and $7.50/watt. Actually, it puts out 330WPC, so $6.82/watt. He paid about $220/lb, and about $40/watt.

What are the Classe numbers?
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post #24862 of 24869 Old Today, 03:52 PM
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Hi Jon,

Bryston's website puts the 7B3 weight at 55 lb, so the figures look better at $104/lb. The Delta Mono will probably come to market at $8000 per amp, with a weight of 97lb, or $82/lb. The per watt figure would be $26.66, assuming an 8Ohm load. That figure improves to $8.42/watt into the continuous 2Ohm rating. If we go with the Class A operating mode, the price goes up to $229/watt.

I've got bad news for you. Emotiva has us all beat. Their XPA-1 at $1199 has 600W into 8Ohm, and weighs 73lb. Assuming any of this has real meaning, we're doomed. Personally, I'm not worried.

Patrick
B&W Group North America


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You're one up on me, Patrick, well, maybe more than one, in that I can't find the weight of the new Classe monoblocks. The Bryston 7B3 weighs 42#, or a mere $136/lb. I actually like buying my amps by the pound, or maybe by the watt. I got a much better deal on my Bryston 4B SST2 than my friend did on his Ayre. Mine weighs 56# and cost $4500, or $80/lb, and $7.50/watt. Actually, it puts out 330WPC, so $6.82/watt. He paid about $220/lb, and about $40/watt.

What are the Classe numbers?
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B&W Owner's Thread

Are there preferred AVRs for B&W speakers? With my 684, 685, and CM Center, I'm wondering if there's any "known" good or bad benefit to the Marantz SR6011 I just purchased and will be setting up tonight
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Are there preferred AVRs for B&W speakers? With my 684, 685, and CM Center, I'm wondering if there's any "known" good or bad benefit to the Marantz SR6011 I just purchased and will be setting up tonight
IME, Marantz pairs well with B&W speakers. And, you get Audyssey XT32 with the SR6011.

Living Room: B&W 804D2, B&W ASW610, Yamaha RX-A2030, Rotel RC-1570, Rotel RB-1582 mkii, Oppo BDP-93, ATV.
Office: KEF LS50s, B&W ASW608, Parasound P5, Parasound A23, Marantz CD5004, Rega RP1, Bluesound Node 2.

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IME, Marantz pairs well with B&W speakers. And, you get Audyssey XT32 with the SR6011.


That's the main reason I got it. I have dual Rythmik FV15HP and despite my best efforts trying to EQ and PEQ them with REW and a miniDSP 2x4 HD, I couldn't. Hoping Audyssey can go better than I can.
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That's the main reason I got it. I have dual Rythmik FV15HP and despite my best efforts trying to EQ and PEQ them with REW and a miniDSP 2x4 HD, I couldn't. Hoping Audyssey can go better than I can.
Very nice subwoofers. Seems like REW and the miniDSP unit should have gotten you there. This combo is probably closer to Audyssey Pro rather than Audyssey XT32.

Living Room: B&W 804D2, B&W ASW610, Yamaha RX-A2030, Rotel RC-1570, Rotel RB-1582 mkii, Oppo BDP-93, ATV.
Office: KEF LS50s, B&W ASW608, Parasound P5, Parasound A23, Marantz CD5004, Rega RP1, Bluesound Node 2.

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post #24867 of 24869 Old Today, 08:41 PM
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Getting distortion from my left woofer on my HTM2D3 the right one sounds normal. It makes a distorted and buzzing sound. Any ideas. It was being driven by a Krell KAV250A/3 so should not have been a clipping issue. Looks like I will have to take it to the dealer. Just want to make sure that if it is the amp I don't have future issues with my 803D3's.
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post #24868 of 24869 Old Today, 09:16 PM
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Can someone provide any input? Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by theozzfactor View Post
Hello experts. I am planning to drive nearly 500 miles to pick up a pair of used B&W CM 10s. Can you help me with few questions?
1. What is the best way to test the speakers and make sure everything is fine with them? I'll be asking the seller to plug them in for me.
2. What is the best way to transport them back? I'll be driving and have suv (with other luggages). Of course I am planning to buy bubble wrap from WalMart to wrap them.
Any help or advice will be deeply appreciated. Thanks
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post #24869 of 24869 Old Today, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Butler View Post
Hi Jon,

Bryston's website puts the 7B3 weight at 55 lb, so the figures look better at $104/lb. The Delta Mono will probably come to market at $8000 per amp, with a weight of 97lb, or $82/lb. The per watt figure would be $26.66, assuming an 8Ohm load. That figure improves to $8.42/watt into the continuous 2Ohm rating. If we go with the Class A operating mode, the price goes up to $229/watt.

I've got bad news for you. Emotiva has us all beat. Their XPA-1 at $1199 has 600W into 8Ohm, and weighs 73lb. Assuming any of this has real meaning, we're doomed. Personally, I'm not worried.

Patrick
B&W Group North America
Hi Patrick,

Okay, something weird. The Bryston brochure lists the 7B3 weight at 55#, but the Owners Manual says 42#. My 4B SST2 manual lists only the shipping weight, 63#, but actual weight is ~55-56#. Most folks refer to amp output into 8 Ohms, so the 4B SST2 does pretty good at rated output, $7.50/watt. That shames the Classe's $26.66/watt.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Emotiva, but I prefer other options.
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802D , atmos , B W , b&w dm1400 , Bowers And Wilkings 685 Speakers , carver cm-1090



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