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post #25021 of 25049 Old 07-15-2017, 09:27 PM
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B&W Owner's Thread

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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Have you tried pulling the speaker out further. Also, I noticed your right front speaker is obstructed by the subwoofer and a couch. That certainly could create issues with the front stage.


Yeah it’s not ideal but the front right speakers tweeter is above the level of the sub and couch. I realize some of the sound waves may get lost on their way but I’ve actually moved the sub and couch and listened to the same scenes of movies without being able to hear much difference.

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post #25022 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 04:53 AM
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Does anybody know if the CWM7.3 in-walls are also being updated? The CwM7.3 is a in-wall CM series speaker. If so maybe I can get another set of the CWM7.3's at a good discount then. I use the CWM7.4 for surrounds, should have went with 5 CWM7.3's but I was have a fruggle moment and tried to save a few bucks.

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post #25023 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MrSavage View Post
Havent been here in a while, but since the last time I have aquired a set of 804D's and powering them thru a Marantz SR7010. Now I'd like to preout them to an amp, but at this time, Im not looking to spend a literal fortune, that comes later. any suggestions for a good 2 channel amp with clean, uncolored sound, that gives as accurately as possible sound reproduction, yet, doesnt overly limit the diamonds?
ATI amps are among the best value if they are in your price range. You get a lot for your money with them.
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post #25024 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Yeah it’s not ideal but the front right speakers tweeter is above the level of the sub and couch. I realize some of the sound waves may get lost on their way but I’ve actually moved the sub and couch and listened to the same scenes of movies without being able to hear much difference.
Alright. I imagine you have already tinkered with Audyssey settings. There's no doubt the CMC2 S2 is the better speaker but I'm hesitant to recommend the upgrade.

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post #25025 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Alright. I imagine you have already tinkered with Audyssey settings. There's no doubt the CMC2 S2 is the better speaker but I'm hesitant to recommend the upgrade.


It’s interesting that this seems to be the sentiment in getting from most people I’ve asked. Seems like I can’t expect a big upgrade in sound quality going from CM Center S2 to CM Center 2 S2. I’m thinking it has to do with the fact that the 2 is basically stronger in the bass department but since I’m crossing over at 80hz to 2 powerful subs, my net gain might be small. Are the tweeters in the CMC and CMC2 the same?
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post #25026 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
It’s interesting that this seems to be the sentiment in getting from most people I’ve asked. Seems like I can’t expect a big upgrade in sound quality going from CM Center S2 to CM Center 2 S2. I’m thinking it has to do with the fact that the 2 is basically stronger in the bass department but since I’m crossing over at 80hz to 2 powerful subs, my net gain might be small. Are the tweeters in the CMC and CMC2 the same?
Yes, the tweeter is the same. With the CMC2 you have the larger woofers of course but more importantly the FST midrange driver. It will naturally perform better in larger rooms.

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post #25027 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post
Yes, the tweeter is the same. With the CMC2 you have the larger woofers of course but more importantly the FST midrange driver. It will naturally perform better in larger rooms.


So why the hesitation on the recommendation? My room is quite large.
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post #25028 of 25049 Old 07-16-2017, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
So why the hesitation on the recommendation? My room is quite large.
Good question. Mainly because I'm not 100% sure it will fix your issue. And, it's a large expenditure if it doesn't.

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post #25029 of 25049 Old 07-18-2017, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
It’s interesting that this seems to be the sentiment in getting from most people I’ve asked. Seems like I can’t expect a big upgrade in sound quality going from CM Center S2 to CM Center 2 S2. I’m thinking it has to do with the fact that the 2 is basically stronger in the bass department but since I’m crossing over at 80hz to 2 powerful subs, my net gain might be small. Are the tweeters in the CMC and CMC2 the same?
You absolutely can expect a big upgrade going from the 2 way to the 3 way version of that speaker. Especially for dialogue, which is really a center channel's man job, the difference will be enormous. The FST is a great driver. With it included, the intelligibility of dialogue will be night and day compared to the speaker without. It really is an outstanding speaker.

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post #25030 of 25049 Old 07-18-2017, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Newbie789 View Post
I tried to buy white ones and the store couldn't get them. the rep told the store that the whole line is getting upgraded.


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"Upgraded" is a scary word these days in B&W speak. Better bring your wallet.

FWIW, I have owned all three modern series' of B&W speakers. Firstly the 683 S1, then the CM9 S2, now the 802 D2. IMO, especially after the latest 600 series redesign, the CM's are the worst value overall. Of course the 800's are on a different planet, but personally I'd rather have the 683 S2 over the CM9 S2 and have enough left over for a couple decent subs. I hope B&W does something great to distance the Cm from the 600.
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post #25031 of 25049 Old 07-20-2017, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
You absolutely can expect a big upgrade going from the 2 way to the 3 way version of that speaker. Especially for dialogue, which is really a center channel's man job, the difference will be enormous. The FST is a great driver. With it included, the intelligibility of dialogue will be night and day compared to the speaker without. It really is an outstanding speaker.


I decided to order the CM Center 2 S2 and while I am waiting, since I’m anticipating selling the CM Center S2 Tomorrow, I hooked up my old GL6 and watched ending of Star Wars force awakens on HBO. I swear even though the GL6 is an overall far inferior speaker to the CMC, the dialogue seemed clearer and I didn’t have to boost it as much. It’s a larger speaker with larger drivers for low end so I’m wondering if that really is my main issue in the room.

Do you know or can you explain how the FST can help dialogue from the CMC 2S2?
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post #25032 of 25049 Old 07-20-2017, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I decided to order the CM Center 2 S2 and while I am waiting, since I’m anticipating selling the CM Center S2 Tomorrow, I hooked up my old GL6 and watched ending of Star Wars force awakens on HBO. I swear even though the GL6 is an overall far inferior speaker to the CMC, the dialogue seemed clearer and I didn’t have to boost it as much. It’s a larger speaker with larger drivers for low end so I’m wondering if that really is my main issue in the room.

Do you know or can you explain how the FST can help dialogue from the CMC 2S2?
My pleasure.

The FST will be advantageous vs the speaker without because it is not asked to reproduce, in addition to the frequencies that dialogue live in, frequencies below those. So for instance, lets say that you are watching a scene where the actors are having a conversation on a busy street. As the cars go by, there will likely be some very low frequencies from the engines and whatnot. Those frequencies will move the drivers of your speakers very slowly compared to the human voice, with fundamentals much higher pitched and therefore would move the drivers of your speakers much more quickly. Now, in a 2 way design you're tasking the big drivers to reproduce both the engines of the cars and the actors speaking simultaneously. So, will your drivers be moving quickly, or moving slowly? They will be trying to do both, which will equal a hot mess. Now, if you break those two sources of content up between two drivers, so the big woofers are primarily reproducing the car engines, and the FST in this case is primarily reproducing the speech, everything will be much nicer, clearer, and more intelligible.
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post #25033 of 25049 Old 07-21-2017, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
My pleasure.



The FST will be advantageous vs the speaker without because it is not asked to reproduce, in addition to the frequencies that dialogue live in, frequencies below those. So for instance, lets say that you are watching a scene where the actors are having a conversation on a busy street. As the cars go by, there will likely be some very low frequencies from the engines and whatnot. Those frequencies will move the drivers of your speakers very slowly compared to the human voice, with fundamentals much higher pitched and therefore would move the drivers of your speakers much more quickly. Now, in a 2 way design you're tasking the big drivers to reproduce both the engines of the cars and the actors speaking simultaneously. So, will your drivers be moving quickly, or moving slowly? They will be trying to do both, which will equal a hot mess. Now, if you break those two sources of content up between two drivers, so the big woofers are primarily reproducing the car engines, and the FST in this case is primarily reproducing the speech, everything will be much nicer, clearer, and more intelligible.


Got it thanks. I always assumed the speech would purely be coming from the tweeter. I didn’t realize the FST would come into play there.
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post #25034 of 25049 Old 07-21-2017, 07:22 AM
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Got it thanks. I always assumed the speech would purely be coming from the tweeter. I didn’t realize the FST would come into play there.
In my full time musician days, I did a fair amount of mixing. The human voice covers ~50hz (popping p's) all the way up to about 8khz (sibilance). The meat of it though is in that mid band that the FST covers.

The FST covers between 350hz to 4khz. Check out this human voice frequency chart I found, and you'll see that it is dominated by that frequency range.
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post #25035 of 25049 Old 07-21-2017, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
In my full time musician days, I did a fair amount of mixing. The human voice covers ~50hz (popping p's) all the way up to about 8khz (sibilance). The meat of it though is in that mid band that the FST covers.

The FST covers between 350hz to 4khz. Check out this human voice frequency chart I found, and you'll see that it is dominated by that frequency range.
Oh wow that's great. I didn't realize that at all. I was always thinking all dialogue lives in the tweeter. I ordered the CM Center S2 today and can't wait for it to come in. Using an older GL6 until it does.

Sidenote: Love your current WAF Defcon Status in your signature. If it's alright, I may have to steal it from you
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post #25036 of 25049 Old 07-21-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Oh wow that's great. I didn't realize that at all. I was always thinking all dialogue lives in the tweeter. I ordered the CM Center S2 today and can't wait for it to come in. Using an older GL6 until it does.

Sidenote: Love your current WAF Defcon Status in your signature. If it's alright, I may have to steal it from you
Of course

She was almost back down to defcon blue yesterday, but then started in about my expensive speakers again. Not quite ready for the blue yet after all. I think OJ had a better day at his hearing.

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WAF is currently at DEFCON ORANGE
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post #25037 of 25049 Old 07-21-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Of course

She was almost back down to defcon blue yesterday, but then started in about my expensive speakers again. Not quite ready for the blue yet after all. I think OJ had a better day at his hearing.
I'm at Defcon 2 unfortunately with this CM Center 2 S2 upgrade! haha
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post #25038 of 25049 Old 07-22-2017, 09:11 PM
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Hi everyone,


I just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the info here in this thread.
I've read an awful lot of it, man that took a while!


I have a question, I'm hoping the brains trust here could help?
I'm considering adding a little more deep low end via a sub, but not a dominating, crushing amount of deep low end.
Just a bit to help the setup sound a little more *full*.


My modest 2.0 system (which I'm pretty happy with).
Yamaha R-N602 amp, B&W 685 S2's, Project Turntable & Yamaha CD Player.
For music primarily, but it's plugged into the TV for sport/movies too.
I listen to music of most genre's, I'm a tragic muso, perform in bands etc etc., so music is life.


So what sub options should I pay attention to?
I don't care which brand, but I am looking at the cheaper end of the market, preferably of the smaller variety too.


Thanks in advance!
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post #25039 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by slave View Post
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for all the info here in this thread.
I've read an awful lot of it, man that took a while!

I have a question, I'm hoping the brains trust here could help?
I'm considering adding a little more deep low end via a sub, but not a dominating, crushing amount of deep low end.
Just a bit to help the setup sound a little more *full*.

My modest 2.0 system (which I'm pretty happy with).
Yamaha R-N602 amp, B&W 685 S2's, Project Turntable & Yamaha CD Player.
For music primarily, but it's plugged into the TV for sport/movies too.
I listen to music of most genre's, I'm a tragic muso, perform in bands etc etc., so music is life.

So what sub options should I pay attention to?
I don't care which brand, but I am looking at the cheaper end of the market, preferably of the smaller variety too.

Thanks in advance!

For mostly music listening sealed subs are generally preferred. The Rythmik L12 is a 12” 300W sealed sub. I have larger porter subs of theirs for mostly movie watching and they’re fantastic. They’re known to be very musical due to their Direct Servo technology. Of course there are other options available but Rythmik’s are great subs.
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post #25040 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 01:16 PM
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Found a pair of DM 602 S2's for cheap i will use with my 685 S2's as rears. Should work fine.

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post #25041 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
"Upgraded" is a scary word these days in B&W speak. Better bring your wallet.

FWIW, I have owned all three modern series' of B&W speakers. Firstly the 683 S1, then the CM9 S2, now the 802 D2. IMO, especially after the latest 600 series redesign, the CM's are the worst value overall. Of course the 800's are on a different planet, but personally I'd rather have the 683 S2 over the CM9 S2 and have enough left over for a couple decent subs. I hope B&W does something great to distance the Cm from the 600.
I had both the CM9 S2's and CM10 S2's and like them both.

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post #25042 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 02:21 PM
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I had both the CM9 S2's and CM10 S2's and like them both.

Indeed. I'm not saying the Cm's are bad speakers...far from it. What I'm saying is that the 804, for instance, absolutely IS twice the speaker as the Cm10, as pricing would suggest. However, the CM9 S2 is NOT twice the speaker as the 683 S2, as pricing would suggest.

IMO the 683 S2 is the best value for a B&W speaker, regardless of line or series. It's inexpensive, comes equipped with an S2 style aluminum dome tweeter (like the CM9) and that sweet FST mid range driver (like the CM9). The main problem with the 683 S1, which I owned, was an out of control boom box bass response, which gave me fits trying to integrate to subs. The S2 version leaned that up significantly thereby yielding a much more balanced speaker and drawing it VERY close to the CM9 S2 (which I also owned).

I actually preferred the CM9 S2 over the CM10 S2 when it came time to buy because with all my auditions with the CM10, I couldn't quite get it to stop "boom tizz" ing. Just my opinion here, but the correct answer for smooth bass extension with a pair of 6.5" drivers is NOT to add another 6.5" driver, especially in a rear ported design that 95% of people will push too close to a wall anyway. Similarly, just because the CM10's tweeter is decoupled, it's no diamond (there is no "tizz" in diamond tweeters). The 804, with it's more inert cabinet, diamond tweeter, and better crossovers is a WAY better sounding speaker than the CM10...unless someone is deaf I suppose.

I now own the 802 D2's, which are on a different planet altogether than anything else in this post, but at that level you're basically shelling out for a car so they'd better be good. Still, as good as the 802's are, the 683 S2 still smokes it in the value department...CM's?...not so much...they're just too expensive when most of that performance can be had by a 600.

I sincerely hope B&W works some magic into a CM redesign. Using Continuum instead of Kevlar, but keeping Kevlar in the 600 speakers is probably a good starting point. Maybe also trickle down from the 800 series a downward exiting "flowport" to open up positioning possibilities?

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WAF is currently at DEFCON ORANGE

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post #25043 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 07:06 PM
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I've noticed that on a few center channel speakers the badge is "Bowers and Wilkins", yet the older models have the traditional; "B&W" logo. Are these with the names spelled out knock offs? If not why is B&W doing this to the branding?
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post #25044 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 08:13 PM
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I've noticed that on a few center channel speakers the badge is "Bowers and Wilkins", yet the older models have the traditional; "B&W" logo. Are these with the names spelled out knock offs? If not why is B&W doing this to the branding?
While I've never seen a knockoff bowers and wilkins speaker, I have owned genuine ones of each logo type. It's just a design decision that swings to and fro, nothing more.

HT: B&W 802 D2 - Martin Logan Focus - DefTech XTR-20BP - Dual SVS SB16 Ultra - Parasound Halo A21- Anthem MRX 720 - Samsung UN65JS8500

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post #25045 of 25049 Old 07-23-2017, 09:51 PM
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Thank you.
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post #25046 of 25049 Old Yesterday, 10:00 AM
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Hey everyone! I just picked up a pair of 684 S2's to use as my front L / R and put the 685 S2's as surround duty and WOW. What a good difference in depth and soundstage! I continue to be impressed with the 600 Series. Damn fine speakers at an incredible value.

LG 55" B6 OLED | Marantz SR5011 | Outlaw Audio 5000 Model Amplifier | B&W HTM62 S2 - Center | B&W 684 S2 - Fronts | B&W 685 S2 Bookshelves - Surrounds | 2 x SVS SB-2000 - Subwoofers | Oppo 203 4K UHD Blu Ray Player
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post #25047 of 25049 Old Yesterday, 06:39 PM
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You guys know that CM is being revamped, right? As soon as this fall. Magnolia is taking preorders. The rumors are it is simply going to be called series 700s
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post #25048 of 25049 Old Yesterday, 06:43 PM
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Finally got the speakers I eyed when they first came out, 803's!

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post #25049 of 25049 Old Today, 12:04 PM
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I have a pair of CM10s (S2) and was looking to match them with CM Center 2 S2. But It's hard to get hold of used ones. Do you think it's okay to pair them with CM Center S2? Or should I wait and buy CM Center 2 S2? Also, will CM1 S1 pair of bookshelves a good choice for surround (back) sound paired with the CM10s as front?
Any input is appreciated.
Thanks
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