B&W Owner's Thread - Page 843 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25261 of 25289 Old 09-14-2017, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Well, that's one approach to critiquing science I suppose. "I don't like the result. It's a made up test."

How about: "The results are bull***t. It's a made up test."

Better?

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post #25262 of 25289 Old 09-15-2017, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
The CWM8.3D's are nice speakers ,why not do 6 of the CWM8.5D for wides, surrounds and surround backs. I have CWM7.3's up front and use CWM7.4 in the backs with CCM682 for the ceiling for 5.1.4 and the CWM7.4 is more than enough for surround duty. Doing CWM8.3D all around would be overkill. I wanted to do CWm7.3 all around in my setup and I was told the same thing overkill. Spend you $ on your front three speakers and subs.
Thx. What about timbre matching? Anyone have a view on how the 8.5s or 7.3s would match with the 8.3Ds?

Will be using for both movies and multichannel music.
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post #25263 of 25289 Old 09-15-2017, 07:23 AM
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I'm actually curious if they are going to "refresh" the CI700 inwall speakers also with continuum drivers and carbon tweeters?
The backbox of the CI800 inwalls are 'big" and for me impossible to install so maybe an updated CI700 series, maybe they would lean closer to the CI800 series.....

Any rumors??
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post #25264 of 25289 Old 09-15-2017, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pirate_at_40 View Post
Thx. What about timbre matching? Anyone have a view on how the 8.5s or 7.3s would match with the 8.3Ds?

Will be using for both movies and multichannel music.
If you are going to consider the CWm7.3 i would then get the CWM8.3 not the 8.3D which you can get at best buy for $2100 each at least they were that not to long ago on a close out. I would not match the "D" with the non "D" for bed channel speakers.
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post #25265 of 25289 Old 09-16-2017, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JGreen09 View Post
Have any of you tried out the HTM1 or 2? I've been debating on what center speaker to get. I already have the 805 D3s on the way and I figure the center speaker is the most important for movies so I might as well upgrade that now too.
I have the htm2 d3 with my 805 d3. They are a good match as it should be. A little overkill according to some, but I'll eventually upgrade the front 805 to 803 and move the 803 as my rear surrounds.

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post #25266 of 25289 Old 09-16-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
Just had another hour long session comparing 704S2, 703S2, and 702S2. I will definitively state that 703S2s are the best current speakers in the world under $15K. Insane. Cannot wait until my pair is here. I wonder who voiced them? That's one great engineer.
I attended the B&W listening session at the Fairlakes, VA Magnolia Design store today. I was disappointed that B&W did not have the entire 700S2 line there to audition, but they did have the 702S2 and 703S2 setup for me to compare.

After listening to these two models for about an hour, I have to agree with NagysAudio that my ears preferred the sound of the 703S2 over the more expensive 702S2. To me the 702S2 was “too bright” sounding. Everyones ears are different and this is why one has to listen for themselves to determine the best sound. I will say that the new midrange speaker which is made from a new material instead of the yellow Kevlar is phenomenal sounding!
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post #25267 of 25289 Old 09-16-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by PCW View Post
I attended the B&W listening session at the Fairlakes, VA Magnolia Design store today. I was disappointed that B&W did not have the entire 700S2 line there to audition, but they did have the 702S2 and 703S2 setup for me to compare.

After listening to these two models for about an hour, I have to agree with NagysAudio that my ears preferred the sound of the 703S2 over the more expensive 702S2. To me the 702S2 was “too bright” sounding. Everyones ears are different and this is why one has to listen for themselves to determine the best sound. I will say that the new midrange speaker which is made from a new material instead of the yellow Kevlar is phenomenal sounding!

I heard the 703S2s again today at the Best Buy on Polaris in Columbus.
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post #25268 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PCW View Post
I attended the B&W listening session at the Fairlakes, VA Magnolia Design store today. I was disappointed that B&W did not have the entire 700S2 line there to audition, but they did have the 702S2 and 703S2 setup for me to compare.

After listening to these two models for about an hour, I have to agree with NagysAudio that my ears preferred the sound of the 703S2 over the more expensive 702S2. To me the 702S2 was “too bright” sounding. Everyones ears are different and this is why one has to listen for themselves to determine the best sound. I will say that the new midrange speaker which is made from a new material instead of the yellow Kevlar is phenomenal sounding!
You hit the nail right on the head. I never liked CM6S2 and CM10S2 because they were too bright. I also don't like 702S2 for the same reason. I guess in order to differentiate the tweeter on top from lower models, B&W voiced the speakers brighter, so it's more apparent.

The Continuum midrange in the 703S2 is the most amazing midrange I've heard since the Goldmund Dialogues (made in 1981).
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post #25269 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
How about: "The results are bull***t. It's a made up test."

Better?
It's exactly that.
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post #25270 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by magicvinny View Post
I'm actually curious if they are going to "refresh" the CI700 inwall speakers also with continuum drivers and carbon tweeters?
The backbox of the CI800 inwalls are 'big" and for me impossible to install so maybe an updated CI700 series, maybe they would lean closer to the CI800 series.....

Any rumors??
I actually had that same concern about got the wrong information from the sales guy at the local the store i used to use. As a result I stopped going there. I was going to do the CWM8.3 in-walls before the CWM8.3D came out. Come to find out I had plenty of room and they would have been easier to put in than the CWm7.3's I have. I have 4x2 metal studs and added 1" furring strips and a layer of 1" drywall which ended up giving 6" depth. To place the CWM8.3 in-walls in existing construction:
1. remove base board
2. take a stud finder find out where your studs
3. cut the drywall from floor to ceiling
4. place the metal bracket between the studs and screw in the backbox(if needed you can lay beam(s) for exact speaker location)
5. measure the opening where speaker cut out is
6. cut drywall hole for speaker
7. lay drywall, tape, mud, sand and paint.
8. Done

I asked if the CWm7.3 were going to be updated and I told at this time no, things could change. I would assume if they do come out it will be couple of years because if you look it took some time for the CWM8.3D to come out after the 800 Series D came out.
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post #25271 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
You hit the nail right on the head. I never liked CM6S2 and CM10S2 because they were too bright. I also don't like 702S2 for the same reason. I guess in order to differentiate the tweeter on top from lower models, B&W voiced the speakers brighter, so it's more apparent.

The Continuum midrange in the 703S2 is the most amazing midrange I've heard since the Goldmund Dialogues (made in 1981).
Have you listen to the 804D3 or 804D2? I bet you would find them more to your liking. I have found that the 800 series speakers are more well rounded, detailed and not near as bright as the new 700 series which I did get a chance to listen to. I do however like the sound of the CWm7.3 and CWM7.4 in-wall speakers which would be considered CM speaker just in the wall. The only problem with the 800 series is that the pricing has gotten out of control for most people.
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post #25272 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 09:26 AM
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Wait, since when did Denon become "garbage", particularly among AVR brands? I recall posting on here last year sometime (as I continue to hover over grabbing some CM6 S2's) to be certain the AVR's I was eyeing would power them well, and I was told pretty uniformly that a mid to higher end Denon would do just fine (currently pondering the X4400 that recently got released, although looking at comparable models from Pioneer and even Sony...although yes, despite surprisingly good press as of late I am aware Sony is at least often thought of as kind of junky).

Also given many swear by the part/feature similarity between Denon and Marantz, does that make Marantz also garbage?
Any of the made in Japan models made by D&M...Denon X6200..X7200...Marantz 8802 pre/pro...should be fine
They make products to compete in many price points just like all the Asian manufacturers do....all of them have their basic and higher performing models

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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
Since inception.

Marantz is on a different level a better company. Having said that, some of the Marantz and Denon receivers are identical internally. They all suck. Except for a brief moment when Marantz used Analog Devices DSP, i.e. their first few generations of the slim line receivers were great.

When it comes to AVRs, I'm exclusively Yamaha these days. At least they resemble some sort of music.
and yet Yamaha has the weakest amp/power supply sections of the Asian manufacturers at a given price point
I think the last numbers I saw for a bench test for Yamaha A30XX was about 70 watts per channel with 5 channels driven
Even their dedicated amps don't bench well

I am certain...as was mentioned before...that Rotel is a better option for power

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 65KS9800 Marantz 8802A prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 Vizio P50 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Panasonic 50ST50 Denon4520 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Samsung 55KS8000 Pioneer SC95 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #25273 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 09:41 AM
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not sure if anyone has pointed this out in this or other threads... the average pair of modern ears are half deaf due to the excess of noise pollution... so all this "scientific" or hearsay stuff won't really matter 🤣

the only thing i caution people against is things like bose: have you compared bose vs other brands? people are apt to believe the marketing from bose without having done primary research themselves

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.
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post #25274 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
It's exactly that.


More like a test that can be manipulated to get desired results.

People overall enjoy accentuated lows and high over flat


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post #25275 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Have you listen to the 804D3 or 804D2? I bet you would find them more to your liking. I have found that the 800 series speakers are more well rounded, detailed and not near as bright as the new 700 series which I did get a chance to listen to. I do however like the sound of the CWm7.3 and CWM7.4 in-wall speakers which would be considered CM speaker just in the wall. The only problem with the 800 series is that the pricing has gotten out of control for most people.
The diamond tweeter IMO is the main reason to get into the 800 vs any other line B&W makes. It's that good. It is also considerably more expensive to produce than an aluminum dome, so that's at least part of the price differential. I haven't heard the new carbon deposited ones, but it would surprise me if they were more controlled/have a higher breakup with less distortion than the diamond.

I was fortunate enough to compare in my own room with my own gear the CM9 S2 and the 802 D2. The difference between those two tweeters is not subtle.

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post #25276 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 12:32 PM
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Anyone have any experience with the new DBxD subs from Bowers and Wilkins? I'm looking for something to pair my 802 D3s with. I've read that these subs are overpriced for what they bring, but I really need them to have the finesse to remain detailed.
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post #25277 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
The diamond tweeter IMO is the main reason to get into the 800 vs any other line B&W makes. It's that good. It is also considerably more expensive to produce than an aluminum dome, so that's at least part of the price differential. I haven't heard the new carbon deposited ones, but it would surprise me if they were more controlled/have a higher breakup with less distortion than the diamond.

I was fortunate enough to compare in my own room with my own gear the CM9 S2 and the 802 D2. The difference between those two tweeters is not subtle.
I would like to find out if the Diamond tweeters are better than 100% ZYLON tweeters in the new Yamaha ns 5000's.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/cont...0/quality.html
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post #25278 of 25289 Old 09-17-2017, 07:36 PM
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I would like to find out if the Diamond tweeters are better than 100% ZYLON tweeters in the new Yamaha ns 5000's.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/cont...0/quality.html
I think I have a Zylon shirt, but always forget whether it needs a warm or hot iron. Maybe I'll email Yamaha and ask them.

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post #25279 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post
You hit the nail right on the head. I never liked CM6S2 and CM10S2 because they were too bright. I also don't like 702S2 for the same reason. I guess in order to differentiate the tweeter on top from lower models, B&W voiced the speakers brighter, so it's more apparent.

The Continuum midrange in the 703S2 is the most amazing midrange I've heard since the Goldmund Dialogues (made in 1981).
Nagys, its obviosly little too early to tell but do you prefer the midrange of the new 700 series to the famed Ensemble PA-1&References with Podzus drivers by the Zellaton?
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post #25280 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 12:47 AM
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Building a new home theater, I have CM 10 S2, Left, Right and matching Centre Channel. What speakers should I use to match for an 11 channel atmos set up?
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post #25281 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 05:46 AM
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Nagys, its obviosly little too early to tell but do you prefer the midrange of the new 700 series to the famed Ensemble PA-1&References with Podzus drivers by the Zellaton?
Nothing will really sound 100% like that phenol foam Gorlich. Having said that, 703S2 is quite similar, has that same sort of aliveness and effortlessness without being edgy, but it also doesn't have any limitations of that 5" tiny midwoofer.

That Gorlich driver is a strange one and only the 5" sounds good. I've worked with and built using their 6-8" woofers and they did not sound all that great. The Continnum mid USA much better driver.
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post #25282 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Anyone have any experience with the new DBxD subs from Bowers and Wilkins? I'm looking for something to pair my 802 D3s with. I've read that these subs are overpriced for what they bring, but I really need them to have the finesse to remain detailed.
I was considering one of the new DBxD subs but ended up getting a JL F112v2 brand new at a really good price, I could not be happier with my decision.
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post #25283 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jaoquin View Post
Building a new home theater, I have CM 10 S2, Left, Right and matching Centre Channel. What speakers should I use to match for an 11 channel atmos set up?


I have cm6s2 surrounds and 804d3 fronts....they pair with the 4 atmos ceiling ccm683 speakers I have nicely. I am not using a back box and have no complaints.


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post #25284 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
I think I have a Zylon shirt, but always forget whether it needs a warm or hot iron. Maybe I'll email Yamaha and ask them.

Yamaha might say.. they are much better places to use ZYLON these days, like your speaker drivers!
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post #25285 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 11:55 AM
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I've owned CM6 S2's for about two years now. Today I went to listen to the new 700's. Only the 705 S2 and 702 S2 were available to try out. No CM models out to compare.

I'm far from a speaker reviewer, but here are some brief notes.

The 705's sound great to me and similar to my memory of my CM6's. Compared to the 702's, I liked the overall sound of the 705's a bit better. Obviously the 702's had much fuller sound down low, but it wasn't for me.

705's compared to some 685 S2's - massive difference. Tweeters in the CM and 700 S2 series sound so much better to me.

Fully aware that I might get home and not be able to tell the difference compared to my CM6's, I went ahead and picked up the 705 S2's.

Back home, I set up a super scientific comparison with a CM6 S2 on the left channel and 705 S2 on the right. I use a Peachtree Nova300 for amplification. I've never been sure if break-in is really an issue, but these were fresh out of the box.

The result: There definitely noticeable differences. I thought CM6's had a deeper bass response. It sounded a touch boomy compared to the 705's, but always sounded fine to me in the past. The high's sounded clearer and a little more balanced on the 705's. Overall, I mildly prefer the 705's sound but it's fairly subtle. Or, my expectations for the latest and greatest are just reinforcing my perception.

Conclusion, if you're interested in upgrading from CM's to 700's, I think there's a noticeable difference in how they sound. It's certainly worth a side by side listen, if you have the opportunity. You might end up liking the CM's better. Unlikely to be a life-changing upgrade. I like the silver colored drivers better.
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post #25286 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ulmerb View Post
I've owned CM6 S2's for about two years now. Today I went to listen to the new 700's. Only the 705 S2 and 702 S2 were available to try out. No CM models out to compare.



I'm far from a speaker reviewer, but here are some brief notes.



The 705's sound great to me and similar to my memory of my CM6's. Compared to the 702's, I liked the overall sound of the 705's a bit better. Obviously the 702's had much fuller sound down low, but it wasn't for me.



705's compared to some 685 S2's - massive difference. Tweeters in the CM and 700 S2 series sound so much better to me.



Fully aware that I might get home and not be able to tell the difference compared to my CM6's, I went ahead and picked up the 705 S2's.



Back home, I set up a super scientific comparison with a CM6 S2 on the left channel and 705 S2 on the right. I use a Peachtree Nova300 for amplification. I've never been sure if break-in is really an issue, but these were fresh out of the box.



The result: There definitely noticeable differences. I thought CM6's had a deeper bass response. It sounded a touch boomy compared to the 705's, but always sounded fine to me in the past. The high's sounded clearer and a little more balanced on the 705's. Overall, I mildly prefer the 705's sound but it's fairly subtle. Or, my expectations for the latest and greatest are just reinforcing my perception.



Conclusion, if you're interested in upgrading from CM's to 700's, I think there's a noticeable difference in how they sound. It's certainly worth a side by side listen, if you have the opportunity. You might end up liking the CM's better. Unlikely to be a life-changing upgrade. I like the silver colored drivers better.


Thanks for posting this. You've inspired me to not rush and upgrade my cm6s2 to the 705.




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post #25287 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 08:27 PM
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I've owned CM6 S2's for about two years now. Today I went to listen to the new 700's. Only the 705 S2 and 702 S2 were available to try out. No CM models out to compare.

I'm far from a speaker reviewer, but here are some brief notes.

The 705's sound great to me and similar to my memory of my CM6's. Compared to the 702's, I liked the overall sound of the 705's a bit better. Obviously the 702's had much fuller sound down low, but it wasn't for me.

705's compared to some 685 S2's - massive difference. Tweeters in the CM and 700 S2 series sound so much better to me.

Fully aware that I might get home and not be able to tell the difference compared to my CM6's, I went ahead and picked up the 705 S2's.

Back home, I set up a super scientific comparison with a CM6 S2 on the left channel and 705 S2 on the right. I use a Peachtree Nova300 for amplification. I've never been sure if break-in is really an issue, but these were fresh out of the box.

The result: There definitely noticeable differences. I thought CM6's had a deeper bass response. It sounded a touch boomy compared to the 705's, but always sounded fine to me in the past. The high's sounded clearer and a little more balanced on the 705's. Overall, I mildly prefer the 705's sound but it's fairly subtle. Or, my expectations for the latest and greatest are just reinforcing my perception.

Conclusion, if you're interested in upgrading from CM's to 700's, I think there's a noticeable difference in how they sound. It's certainly worth a side by side listen, if you have the opportunity. You might end up liking the CM's better. Unlikely to be a life-changing upgrade. I like the silver colored drivers better.
Wow , what an ingenious method of comparison& differentiating speakers, (using different speakers on each side) you ought to patent it, and apply to be a reviewer at the Stereophile..... Really .... (J Gordon Holt would have died of envy)
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post #25288 of 25289 Old 09-18-2017, 11:11 PM
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I've heard the 703S2 beside a CM9S2.
I would say that the 703S2 sounds really good.

The 700 serie is a nice upgrade and closer to the 800 serie, than the CM line up with almost the same price the CM line up had! nice one B&W!
The 703S2 had much brighter sound than the CM9S2, in my opinion too bright for my taste , but wow , the Dynamic sound stage is a big improvement over the CM9S2 , and sounded much clearer, and more of a 3D 'Deapth' to it with the new Continuum FST. It was like all the sound came out from the speaker, while the CM9S2 produced a wonderful sound , but sounded more closed in the box , and not so dynamic as the 703S2.
The new Carbon Dome-tweeter is also a step up compared to the aluminium tweeter.

But i still think , i will hold on to my CM9's

Only thing i've pre ordered is 2 DB4S subs , and i will throw out my ASW10 as soon as they arrive

|Samsung UE55KS8000|B&W CM9 S2|CMC2 S2|ASW10CM S2|HKTS16 Surround|Marantz SR7009|NAD C275BEE|

Last edited by samboy87; 09-18-2017 at 11:14 PM.
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post #25289 of 25289 Old Yesterday, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kot B View Post
Wow , what an ingenious method of comparison& differentiating speakers, (using different speakers on each side) you ought to patent it, and apply to be a reviewer at the Stereophile..... Really .... (J Gordon Holt would have died of envy)
Yes it was some cutting edge work for sure. Fully aware this was a silly way to compare stereo speakers. Without a decent way to do a real A/B test, and being pretty skeptical about how much actual difference there would be between two seemingly very similar speakers, it served its purpose for me.
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