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#1 ·
I noticed that I hadn't seen B&W OWNER'S thread , but that there are a lot of owners on this forum and I think that the consistant bashing from about 4 posters makes people hesitant to get involved in any of the many threads that keep getting nasty. So, to that end, I think that if there was a thread where the Lovefest could be conducted without bothering NON-owners and the bashers weren't welcome, maybe some good info could come out of it.


My challenge would be to ask people here to keep it civil and that if you don't like B&W there is no point in you being here. If you want to talk about other comporables, start another thread.


For the record, I am a B&W dealer , and most know this, and as such , if I can find out any important info on the brand or certain models, I will be happy to. Don't , however, post or pm me regarding sales, I don't use threads as advertising for my business, and I won't sell you anything .


So what do you own and how is it set-up?
 
#1,801 ·
"Hard to drive" means one or both of the following:

1. At some audio frequencies but not all, the speaker requires a lot of power from the amplifier. If your amplifier can't deliver enough current at those frequencies, then sonically your system will "run out of gas" at louder listening levels. People usually refer to this as a "bumpy impendance curve." Your amplifier is working harder and running hotter when powering a speaker like this, which can shorten the amplifier's lifespan. There are a few infamous speakers that have very low impedance at all frequencies, such as the infamous Apogee Scintilla (nominal impedance of 1 ohm).


2. Some speakers have low sensitivity, requiring a LOT of amplifier power at all frequencies to play at reasonable volume levels. The hardest-to-drive speakers are typically the ones with a very bumpy impedance curve and low sensitivity.


See http://gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/spkramp.html for a really clear explanation that non-engineers like me can follow.


I would add that an amplifier has lots more power available for fronts/center/surrounds when the low frequencies are routed to the subwoofer's amplifier, as they are in your home theater system.


The http://www.gcaudio website, which I hadn't seen before, has some clearly written articles on the basics of system setup in it's "How To" section, under "Resources." You won't agree with everything there, e.g., whether cables benefit from break-in (the writer says YES).
 
#1,802 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach /forum/post/12302134


"Hard to drive" means one or both of the following:

1. At some audio frequencies but not all, the speaker requires a lot of power from the amplifier. If your amplifier can't deliver enough current at those frequencies, then sonically your system will "run out of gas" at louder listening levels. People usually refer to this as a "bumpy impendance curve." Your amplifier is working harder and running hotter when powering a speaker like this, which can shorten the amplifier's lifespan. There are a few infamous speakers that have very low impedance at all frequencies, such as the infamous Apogee Scintilla (nominal impedance of 1 ohm).


2. Some speakers have low sensitivity, requiring a LOT of amplifier power at all frequencies to play at reasonable volume levels. The hardest-to-drive speakers are typically the ones with a very bumpy impedance curve and low sensitivity.


See http://gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/spkramp.html for a really clear explanation that non-engineers like me can follow.


I would add that an amplifier has lots more power available for fronts/center/surrounds when the low frequencies are routed to the subwoofer's amplifier, as they are in your home theater system.


The http://www.gcaudio website, which I hadn't seen before, has some clearly written articles on the basics of system setup in it's "How To" section, under "Resources." You won't agree with everything there, e.g., whether cables benefit from break-in (the writer says YES).

Great reply, thanks. One more question, you wrote:


"I would add that an amplifier has lots more power available for fronts/center/surrounds when the low frequencies are routed to the subwoofer's amplifier, as they are in your home theater system"


I have speakers set to small, crossover at 80 and Bass set to "Subwoofer" in the amp setup, I assume this is what you are referring to?
 
#1,803 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrilledCheese /forum/post/12302502


Great reply, thanks. One more question...I have speakers set to small, crossover at 80 and Bass set to "Subwoofer" in the amp setup, I assume this is what you are referring to?


Right, that's what I meant. The frequencies in all 5 channels going to the amplifier section of your Yamaha receiver start to roll off at 80 Hz (it's not a sudden cutoff), and they get sent to the subwoofer's amplifier, leaving your Yamaha's amplifier to handle everything else. I'm not familiar with your specific equipment, and also I don't know how loudly you play your system, what kind of music you listen to, or the size and acoustics of your listening room. All of those things, in addition to the electrical characteristics of your speakers, play a role in whether your receiver has enough power to do the job.
 
#1,804 ·
Anyone with the HTM7 center channel have it inside a cabinet? I plan on getting this as my center channel (with the 703's) but the center channel must fit inside a cabinet. Any thoughts or feedback?
 
#1,805 ·
you should be able to compensate for it. i tried moving my towers closer to walls, putting stuff infront of them, and the autosetup on my receiver did a great job of adjusting it...no real difference was noticed. I don't think people need to be as picky with movies as they do with music (And even then..really...an inch to the left..big deal?) because once you get it to your liking you will be watching the visuals.


besides..if you have the HTM7 moved right to the edge of the cabinet, it shouldn't reflect off anything.


-----------------------------------

also, if any prospective 704 buyers are interested: i just listened to my 704's with transformers HD-DVD running PCM downmix as well as with bitstreme. Sound was fantastic, dialogue was perfectly centered even without the center channel. Where it was lacking was for bass effects (duh..get a subwoofer) and the dialogue was a bit too quiet (which is where the center channel speaker would have helped out..or crank up the dialogue enhancer on ur reciever).
 
#1,806 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckerm /forum/post/12305383


Anyone with the HTM7 center channel have it inside a cabinet? I plan on getting this as my center channel (with the 703's) but the center channel must fit inside a cabinet. Any thoughts or feedback?

I have the HTM7 along with the 703's I don't have it in a cabinet but I would urge you to audition other B&W center channel speakers. I have not been pleased with the sound. I have B&W for all speakers except sub and with the exception of the HTM7 they sound fantastic. The HTM7 to me does not produce natural sounding dialog. The dialog sounds muddy. I like cyrstal clear sound and this speaker just does not reproduce this natural clean sound.
 
#1,807 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckerm /forum/post/12305383


Anyone with the HTM7 center channel have it inside a cabinet? I plan on getting this as my center channel (with the 703's) but the center channel must fit inside a cabinet. Any thoughts or feedback?

I have it in a Salamander triple 20 console. It fits in the middle section width wise perfectly. It's a little low. I have the shelf adjusted to fit a dvr below it.
 
#1,808 ·
I was wondering if anyone has compared the older Natilus 805 to the new 805S?


If so, how different are they? What's the biggest difference in sounds? Bass? highs? imagine?


Any help is appreciated!


Thnx
 
#1,809 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by th8ter /forum/post/12305538


I have the HTM7 along with the 703's I don't have it in a cabinet but I would urge you to audition other B&W center channel speakers. I have not been pleased with the sound. I have B&W for all speakers except sub and with the exception of the HTM7 they sound fantastic. The HTM7 to me does not produce natural sounding dialog. The dialog sounds muddy. I like cyrstal clear sound and this speaker just does not reproduce this natural clean sound.

Have you tried shifting placement, checking the settings at the amp, etc. I also have it and havent seen any such problems, it works fine together with DS7/685 surrounds. The problem with it i have is that its really too small to go together with the 703 i use as fronts. I would love to have something like a "HTM 7s" or something with the 703 configuration of elements alike the HTM3s is to the 803s/804s.
 
#1,810 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by th8ter /forum/post/12305538


I have the HTM7 along with the 703's I don't have it in a cabinet but I would urge you to audition other B&W center channel speakers. I have not been pleased with the sound. I have B&W for all speakers except sub and with the exception of the HTM7 they sound fantastic. The HTM7 to me does not produce natural sounding dialog. The dialog sounds muddy. I like cyrstal clear sound and this speaker just does not reproduce this natural clean sound.

have you tried the HTM4S?

it should be the same technologies as the HTM7 but..u kno...bigger.


the HTM3 and such all have FST so they would also match with your 703's..but not as much with 704's
 
#1,811 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexb76 /forum/post/12306892


I was wondering if anyone has compared the older Natilus 805 to the new 805S?


If so, how different are they? What's the biggest difference in sounds? Bass? highs? imagine?


Any help is appreciated!


Thnx

Yes, I owned the N805 and moved to 804s. Out of curiousity, I A/B'd against the 805s. In my opinion, there was not enough of a difference to warrant the price difference ($1200 used/$1600 discounted dealer old stock vs. 2500$ new). The difference was subtle and was mainly in the low treble. The difference could have easily been the room.


If given the choice between 1200$ Used mint N805 vs 805s > $1800, I would go for the n805 and use the extra money on a fantastic subwoofer, or room treatments.
 
#1,813 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Tomaskovic /forum/post/12305603


I have it in a Salamander triple 20 console. It fits in the middle section width wise perfectly. It's a little low. I have the shelf adjusted to fit a dvr below it.

That's exactly the cabinet this is going in. Have you experienced the same issue that th8ter posted above? I am definetly into the 703s for mains, and this center seemed to fit the bill size wise.
 
#1,814 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega /forum/post/12309164


Yes, I owned the N805 and moved to 804s. Out of curiousity, I A/B'd against the 805s. In my opinion, there was not enough of a difference to warrant the price difference ($1200 used/$1600 discounted dealer old stock vs. 2500$ new). The difference was subtle and was mainly in the low treble. The difference could have easily been the room.


If given the choice between 1200$ Used mint N805 vs 805s > $1800, I would go for the n805 and use the extra money on a fantastic subwoofer, or room treatments.

Thanks man... appreciate your feedback.


I did exactly the same, got myself some old stock N805 and brought it home and haven't been happy with it. Not that it's not good, it just doesn't sound good for the moeny (or my expectation), so thought maybe I should go with 805S instead?!


I got really bad room dyamincs, #1 issue, and secondly, my listening is to Electronic, Rock mostly and from what I've read, it looks like B&W is not great for that style of music and either have to go to a different brand or different B&W to make it work better.


The XT series highs I think were a bit better for Electronic music, although gotto mate it with a nice sub to compensate for bass...


Any suggestions for a better pair for electronic music?


Thnx
 
#1,815 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexb76 /forum/post/12311716


Any suggestions for a better pair for electronic music?


Thnx

Cerwin Vega?


jk :)
 
#1,816 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexb76 /forum/post/12311716


Thanks man... appreciate your feedback.


I did exactly the same, got myself some old stock N805 and brought it home and haven't been happy with it. Not that it's not good, it just doesn't sound good for the moeny (or my expectation), so thought maybe I should go with 805S instead?!


I got really bad room dyamincs, #1 issue, and secondly, my listening is to Electronic, Rock mostly and from what I've read, it looks like B&W is not great for that style of music and either have to go to a different brand or different B&W to make it work better.


The XT series highs I think were a bit better for Electronic music, although gotto mate it with a nice sub to compensate for bass...


Any suggestions for a better pair for electronic music?


Thnx

In my rooms, the N805 excelled at all types of music that I threw at it. I listen to Classical, Jazz, Japanese Rock, JPOP, Trance, House. This is of course with my ACI subwoofer. The only music it didn't excel at was pipe organ music because the mid-woofer would undergo overexcursion, I fixed that problem by getting the 804s which is a 3-way setup.


If your room isn't acoustically ok, then you are pretty screwed.


Granted, I don't listen at volumes greater than 104dB peak. Rock concert levels are 110dB+. If you want that, then just get some very sensitive professional speakers like Mackie.
 
#1,817 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphasia /forum/post/12307109


Have you tried shifting placement, checking the settings at the amp, etc. I also have it and havent seen any such problems, it works fine together with DS7/685 surrounds. The problem with it i have is that its really too small to go together with the 703 i use as fronts. I would love to have something like a "HTM 7s" or something with the 703 configuration of elements alike the HTM3s is to the 803s/804s.

I've had a similar experience with my 703's/HTM7. Particularly at low volume levels, the dialog is a little muddy. I haven't played with position too much, but it seems to me B&W ought to sell an FST-equipped center to match the 703's. The HTM4 is no doubt very good, but rather pricey.


On the other hand, the HTM61's look pretty promising, for $600US msrp. I haven't heard them, but at least they have comparable drivers,so you might expect them to match reasonable well with the 703's.


In the meantime, I'll just crank them up a bit.


-Reid
 
#1,818 ·
I'm a new AVS Member and joining the B&W Club with the following acquisition which we're installing this week;


Fronts: 604S3

Center:LCR600S3

Sub: ASW700

Integra DTR 7.8


I'm looking to round out the installation with the rears and trying to decide between the LM-1 and the new DS3s. I'm leaning towards wall mounts as I have furniture constraints. My HT room is 20 X 14 with a 12 ft ceiling. I'd appreciate any guidance you all could provide on a well balanced selection.


Thanks for helping out a new guy as I've been away from the high end audio scene for more than a few decades.


Thanks again,

TJ
 
#1,819 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega /forum/post/12313238


In my rooms, the N805 excelled at all types of music that I threw at it. I listen to Classical, Jazz, Japanese Rock, JPOP, Trance, House. This is of course with my ACI subwoofer. The only music it didn't excel at was pipe organ music because the mid-woofer would undergo overexcursion, I fixed that problem by getting the 804s which is a 3-way setup.


If your room isn't acoustically ok, then you are pretty screwed.


Granted, I don't listen at volumes greater than 104dB peak. Rock concert levels are 110dB+. If you want that, then just get some very sensitive professional speakers like Mackie.

Interesting... I live in a condo, so can't really turn it up that high... that seems to be the issue. The 805 sounds great, when u crank it up, but it's not very good at all, when volume levels are low.


I do NOT have a sub yet, could that be the reason?


So, what would be a good set of speakers at low volumes?


Thnx
 
#1,820 ·

Quote:
Anyone with the HTM7 center channel have it inside a cabinet? I plan on getting this as my center channel (with the 703's) but the center channel must fit inside a cabinet. Any thoughts or feedback?

You could try the HTM61. it might be better.
 
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