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post #4951 of 6970 Old 02-10-2011, 04:37 PM
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In looking at the Sensitivity specs on the VGs, I notice the Towers are rated at 92, yet the center is 87. This is a fairly drastic difference.

Is this an issue for concern?

The reason I ask... I was considering the B&W 683s but read many comments of folks (and a review) discussing how the HTM61 does not match as well (not as lively, a bit muddier), breaking the continuity of the front soundstage.

Thoughts?
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post #4952 of 6970 Old 02-10-2011, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post


That looks like a great set up to me, I love the 6Bs myself. The main advantes that I would see in going to the VGB would be slightly smoother high frequencies and its also a more sensitive speaker so you don't need as much power behind them as you will with the 6Bs.

Jason, regarding my proposed upgrade & setup - if I were looking at the VGBs, what receiver would be a good choice? Same question looking at the 6C/6B speaker choice, would it be a different choice on receiver vs VGBs?

I see you all selling Marantz. I don't know what I should be looking at other than vie always heard good things about Pioneer, I have an Onkyo & it seems okay ... Suggestions?
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post #4953 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

In looking at the Sensitivity specs on the VGs, I notice the Towers are rated at 92, yet the center is 87. This is a fairly drastic difference.

Is this an issue for concern?

The reason I ask... I was considering the B&W 683s but read many comments of folks (and a review) discussing how the HTM61 does not match as well (not as lively, a bit muddier), breaking the continuity of the front soundstage.

Thoughts?

I'm in the same boat as you - never heard these speakers, but comparing them to B&W.

Is this an issue for concern?

I guess it's not, in a small or medium-sized room. Looks like they are not designed for a large HT anyway.

Thoughts?

I can confirm all the negative stuff you read about HTM61 from my own experience, but it has nothing to do with the speaker's sensitivity.
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post #4954 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

In looking at the Sensitivity specs on the VGs, I notice the Towers are rated at 92, yet the center is 87. This is a fairly drastic difference.

Is this an issue for concern?

The reason I ask... I was considering the B&W 683s but read many comments of folks (and a review) discussing how the HTM61 does not match as well (not as lively, a bit muddier), breaking the continuity of the front soundstage.

Thoughts?

When you set the speaker levels (or if it gets set when you use that fancy automatic stuff) the center will just be set to a higher level.

Cheers
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post #4955 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pearlbluevtx View Post

Jason, regarding my proposed upgrade & setup - if I were looking at the VGBs, what receiver would be a good choice? Same question looking at the 6C/6B speaker choice, would it be a different choice on receiver vs VGBs?

I see you all selling Marantz. I don't know what I should be looking at other than vie always heard good things about Pioneer, I have an Onkyo & it seems okay ... Suggestions?

The real reason to upgrade your receiver would be to get features such as HDMI that you don't have now, but in terms of power, 130 watts into 8 ohms should be plenty to drive either the VGBs or 6Bs.

If you did go to a new AVR I would stick with one with a similar power rating, like the Marantz SR7005, Onkyo 808 or 1008 or Denon 3311. If you want to go with Pioneer I would recommend the SC-35.

I hope that helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

In looking at the Sensitivity specs on the VGs, I notice the Towers are rated at 92, yet the center is 87. This is a fairly drastic difference.

Is this an issue for concern?

The reason I ask... I was considering the B&W 683s but read many comments of folks (and a review) discussing how the HTM61 does not match as well (not as lively, a bit muddier), breaking the continuity of the front soundstage.

Thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaudio View Post

When you set the speaker levels (or if it gets set when you use that fancy automatic stuff) the center will just be set to a higher level.

Cheers

dynaudio is correct, you will be able to compensate for the differences in sensitivity by calibrating the levels in your receiver.
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post #4956 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 12:43 PM
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thanks Jason.

Well, I have to get a new receiver - because I'm going to move my current Onkyo (TXDS797) receiver to my master bedroom - so, I have to get a new one if I end up upgrading my living room from the AA 522s/797.

But, now, I'm re-thinking my entire deal now.

Jason - I don't know if you know about the 522D aperions. That's what I have currently.

I'm thinking of keeping my rear L/R as my 522s in my living room as-is - but - moving my front L/R 522s to my master bedroom along with 522C then buy the Aperion Intimus 4B for my REAR L/R for master bedroom (or maybe the Verus Forte Bookshelf Speaker instead of Intimus 4B.

So- that would leave my living room (16x18) and I would have to get new front L/R & center channel + a new avr.

I was pricing out either the:
intimus 6B+6C (fronts only)
or
VGB & VGC (fronts only)


Do you think my existing 522s would be okay as my REAR SURROUND with either of the above fronts?

Do you think the new Intimus 4B would be fine as my REAR SURROUND if I use my 522s as my fronts?

And, I'm assuming that the Verus Grand Center Channel speaker goes just fine with the Verus Grand Bookshelf - right? The VGC isn't just supposed to be paired with the VGTower, is it?

Anyway, cost wise - I end up spending about $160 more on the Verus vs Intimus ...


SORRY. I know - I'm all over the place with ideas but if you can comment on if my 522s would be fine as REARs and then as FRONTs paired up with newer Aperions, that would be very helpful.

THANKS AGAIN.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
The real reason to upgrade your receiver would be to get features such as HDMI that you don't have now, but in terms of power, 130 watts into 8 ohms should be plenty to drive either the VGBs or 6Bs.

If you did go to a new AVR I would stick with one with a similar power rating, like the Marantz SR7005, Onkyo 808 or 1008 or Denon 3311. If you want to go with Pioneer I would recommend the SC-35.

I hope that helps!
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post #4957 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaudio View Post
When you set the speaker levels (or if it gets set when you use that fancy automatic stuff) the center will just be set to a higher level.

Cheers
Nooo... I get that the Level of the Front would need to be higher. I always let Audessey do its thing, then I come back and manually set with SPL meter.

I guess my point was (using the B&W 683/HTM1 as an example of what can go wrong) wondering if there were any imaging issues across the front... with VGT/VGC blending seamlessly together. And this only creeped up as a question when looking at the Specs. Thinking well if FR and Sens is that different, what else is different... will it keep up with the mains etc.

Hicks actually answered me pretty well in PM. His response was something along the lines of "That is why the Sensivity in the VGC is so much different" that the goal was to have the VGC match/blend as close as possible, which with the number of drivers and cabinet difference etc. is why the Sens is so much lower.
Made sense to me. I can't wait to hear them.
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post #4958 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 01:18 PM
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Another note to those who have been investigating the 683 B&Ws... I just realized they are "Vinyl Veneer". No don't get me wrong... if they look nice I suppose that is good. But at this price point I would sure like to have some Real Wood Veneer on there. (Like the Verus have).

Ps. What is the plural for Verus?
Vereese?
Veruses?
Verii?

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post #4959 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 01:37 PM
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Verus-us, my youngest boys name is Veril, what a coincidence.

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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post #4960 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 01:38 PM
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Verus-us
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post #4961 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pearlbluevtx View Post

thanks Jason.

Well, I have to get a new receiver - because I'm going to move my current Onkyo (TXDS797) receiver to my master bedroom - so, I have to get a new one if I end up upgrading my living room from the AA 522s/797.

But, now, I'm re-thinking my entire deal now.

Jason - I don't know if you know about the 522D aperions. That's what I have currently.

I'm thinking of keeping my rear L/R as my 522s in my living room as-is - but - moving my front L/R 522s to my master bedroom along with 522C then buy the Aperion Intimus 4B for my REAR L/R for master bedroom (or maybe the Verus Forte Bookshelf Speaker instead of Intimus 4B.

So- that would leave my living room (16x18) and I would have to get new front L/R & center channel + a new avr.

I was pricing out either the:
intimus 6B+6C (fronts only)
or
VGB & VGC (fronts only)


Do you think my existing 522s would be okay as my REAR SURROUND with either of the above fronts?

Do you think the new Intimus 4B would be fine as my REAR SURROUND if I use my 522s as my fronts?

And, I'm assuming that the Verus Grand Center Channel speaker goes just fine with the Verus Grand Bookshelf - right? The VGC isn't just supposed to be paired with the VGTower, is it?

Anyway, cost wise - I end up spending about $160 more on the Verus vs Intimus ...


SORRY. I know - I'm all over the place with ideas but if you can comment on if my 522s would be fine as REARs and then as FRONTs paired up with newer Aperions, that would be very helpful.

THANKS AGAIN.

Sure I am quite familiar with the 522s, I actually use the next version, the 532, as my computer speakers here at work.

So yes the 522s will work well as surrounds with our current speakers and vice versa. They do use different drivers, but since surrounds play a more supporting role in your set up having a slightly different speaker back there is not usually a problem. The most critical speakers to match are your fronts and center.

Yes, the Verus Grand Bookshelves and Verus Grand Center are intended to go together and are timbre matched.

I would just mention if you do want to go the 6B route I would jump on it as I only have a few pairs left.

Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

Another note to those who have been investigating the 683 B&Ws... I just realized they are "Vinyl Veneer". No don't get me wrong... if they look nice I suppose that is good. But at this price point I would sure like to have some Real Wood Veneer on there. (Like the Verus have).

Ps. What is the plural for Verus?
Vereese?
Veruses?
Verii?


I prefer Verii myself.
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post #4962 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

Nooo... I get that the Level of the Front would need to be higher. I always let Audessey do its thing, then I come back and manually set with SPL meter.

I guess my point was (using the B&W 683/HTM1 as an example of what can go wrong) wondering if there were any imaging issues across the front... with VGT/VGC blending seamlessly together. And this only creeped up as a question when looking at the Specs. Thinking well if FR and Sens is that different, what else is different... will it keep up with the mains etc.

Hicks actually answered me pretty well in PM. His response was something along the lines of "That is why the Sensivity in the VGC is so much different" that the goal was to have the VGC match/blend as close as possible, which with the number of drivers and cabinet difference etc. is why the Sens is so much lower.
Made sense to me. I can't wait to hear them.

That's what I got from talking to Jason about how the speakers match up as well. It would seem to me they have spent a lot of time and effort making sure the entire Verus speaker lineup matches up correctly when used in any HT environment.

Bob

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post #4963 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 04:37 PM
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Picking up screws in the AM. The 5B's take the 1/4"-20 as Hicks said. Almost in the new house !
How long do these need to be ? Just going thru a thin steel plate mount.

Thanks Mark
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post #4964 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastMark View Post

Picking up screws in the AM. The 5B's take the 1/4"-20 as Hicks said. Almost in the new house !
How long do these need to be ? Just going thru a thin steel plate mount.

Thanks Mark

1 and 1/4" should do the trick.

Have a great weekend everyone!
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post #4965 of 6970 Old 02-11-2011, 05:06 PM
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14 minutes for a reply right from the manufacturer....tough to complain about that !

Thanks Hicks.

Mark
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post #4966 of 6970 Old 02-12-2011, 03:23 AM
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I think I'm making some progress with what I THINK I want!

For receivers, my budget comfort zone is around the $1k range. Based on what I'm reading, these seem to be the ones I need to consider:
  • marantz sr7005 (really don't want to spend this much)
  • marantz sr6005
  • denon 3311
  • denon 2311
  • denon 991
  • onkyo 1008
  • onkyo 808
  • onkyo 708

approx 17' X 19' room

Speakers: Seriously leaning towards the VGB(fronts)/VGC/BravusII12d

Does it seem like the 3311 or the 1008 are the best options - best functionality, features for $$s?

Opinions on these three brands on best use, ease of operation?
Features - ease of iPhone/iPod use, watch HD TV shows (40%), Movies (55%), Music (5%)
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post #4967 of 6970 Old 02-12-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pearlbluevtx View Post

I think I'm making some progress with what I THINK I want!

For receivers, my budget comfort zone is around the $1k range. Based on what I'm reading, these seem to be the ones I need to consider:

[*]marantz sr7005 (really don't want to spend this much)[*]marantz sr6005[*]denon 3311[*]denon 2311[*]denon 991[*]onkyo 1008[*]onkyo 808[*]onkyo 708


approx 17' X 19' room

Speakers: Seriously leaning towards the VGB(fronts)/VGC/BravusII12d

Does it seem like the 3311 or the 1008 are the best options - best functionality, features for $$s?

Opinions on these three brands on best use, ease of operation?
Features - ease of iPhone/iPod use, watch HD TV shows (40%), Movies (55%), Music (5%)

I just thought it was interesting how when I was looking at similarly priced AVRs and I came up with a completely different list. Anthem MRX-300 or Yamaha RX-A1000 or 2000. Lot of choices out there.
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post #4968 of 6970 Old 02-12-2011, 12:19 PM
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I just thought it was interesting how when I was looking at similarly priced AVRs and I came up with a completely different list. Anthem MRX-300 or Yamaha RX-A1000 or 2000. Lot of choices out there.

Great!!!! Now more choices. Those both look very nice too.
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post #4969 of 6970 Old 02-13-2011, 11:44 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1314953

Looking for Aperion upgrade options!
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post #4970 of 6970 Old 02-15-2011, 03:41 PM
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Hey if anyone is interested in a great deal on a 12D just PM me.
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post #4971 of 6970 Old 02-15-2011, 06:27 PM
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Hey if anyone is interested in a great deal on a 12D just PM me.

Why are you selling it?

What do you plan to replace it with?
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post #4972 of 6970 Old 02-15-2011, 06:50 PM
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My Dilema,

I just ordered two VGTs and a VGC. I have a 25x20 room with cathedral ceilings and large openings two walls leading to other spaces.

My Sub is a SVS PC+ 20-39 and I have an Onkyo 5007 receiver.

My initial goal was to get the VGTs and the VGC and wait for surrounds until Aperion comes out with Dipole/Bipoles. I have some old Wharfedale Diamonds that I can run in my Surround position and just do without my rear surround for a while.

Anyway... I have been debating canceling the 2 VGTs and getting 4 VGBs instead. They are in stock and would allow me to put get my 7.1 back up and running sooner. The system is 90% HT and daily TV viewing.

I wanted the VGTs because... well they just friken look awesome. And when I do listen to music... I like to "Feel" it.

Opinions or thoughts?

Rayo
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post #4973 of 6970 Old 02-15-2011, 07:02 PM
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Why are you selling it?

What do you plan to replace it with?

Actually the sale is pending but I will post it again if it falls through.
I'm selling it to down size to the 8D. Yeah it's a big step down but I just don't have room for it and I live in apartment. So the people around me will like me more if down size. I already have the Verus Grand speakers so I can get some bass out of them as well.
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post #4974 of 6970 Old 02-15-2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

My Dilema,

I just ordered two VGTs and a VGC. I have a 25x20 room with cathedral ceilings and large openings two walls leading to other spaces.

My Sub is a SVS PC+ 20-39 and I have an Onkyo 5007 receiver.

My initial goal was to get the VGTs and the VGC and wait for surrounds until Aperion comes out with Dipole/Bipoles. I have some old Wharfedale Diamonds that I can run in my Surround position and just do without my rear surround for a while.

Anyway... I have been debating canceling the 2 VGTs and getting 4 VGBs instead. They are in stock and would allow me to put get my 7.1 back up and running sooner. The system is 90% HT and daily TV viewing.

I wanted the VGTs because... well they just friken look awesome. And when I do listen to music... I like to "Feel" it.

Opinions or thoughts?

Rayo

I would say if it is just to get your project done then I would just wait for the VGTs. Don't get me wrong the VGBs are a really good speaker. But with your room size you are just not going to get the same range or punch with the VGBs. I have had the VGTs since Oct and they are such a wonder speaker. I'm going through a tough situation and thought I had to down size to the Forte's but in the long run I just didn't want to get rid of the VGTs so I just rearranged other things. I have heard all of Aperion's speakers and the VGTs and the Forte center have impressed me the most. Again this is just my two cents.
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post #4975 of 6970 Old 02-16-2011, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

My Dilema,

I just ordered two VGTs and a VGC. I have a 25x20 room with cathedral ceilings and large openings two walls leading to other spaces.

My Sub is a SVS PC+ 20-39 and I have an Onkyo 5007 receiver.

My initial goal was to get the VGTs and the VGC and wait for surrounds until Aperion comes out with Dipole/Bipoles. I have some old Wharfedale Diamonds that I can run in my Surround position and just do without my rear surround for a while.

Anyway... I have been debating canceling the 2 VGTs and getting 4 VGBs instead. They are in stock and would allow me to put get my 7.1 back up and running sooner. The system is 90% HT and daily TV viewing.

I wanted the VGTs because... well they just friken look awesome. And when I do listen to music... I like to "Feel" it.

Opinions or thoughts?

Rayo

I am not sure I understand your logic in wanting to cancel your VGT's and opt for VGB's just to have a 7.1 system.

A couple of considerations, first the front sound stage is the heart of any system. There is no comparison in terms of sound between the VGT and the VGB, the VGT will provide a fuller and more dynamic sound than the bookshelf. You have a good sized room, with some challenges in optimizing sound. I feel your first choice with the VGT's is going to provide the best in terms of sound. Just having a 7.1 setup, is not going to provide the room filling sound the towers will provide. It is not so much the number of speakers you have, more the quality and ability of the speakers you are driving to provide the room filling sound you desire.

I have the VGT's, they are in a league of their own. I think you would be disappointed in a decision to replace them with a bookshelf speaker and expect the same dynamic sound.
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post #4976 of 6970 Old 02-16-2011, 11:19 AM
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I'm with BESLC and IZETECI, in a room of that size I think you really will want towers from the get go.

What you could do is to get one pair of VGBs and run 5.1 and then either move them to the rear or trade them up when the dipoles come out.
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post #4977 of 6970 Old 02-16-2011, 04:27 PM
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Good points all. I guess the only reason I was thinking that way was $$$ for more channels. But the room filling comments are well taken. And as I mentioned before... the VGTs are just awesome looking.

Its the waiting that kills ya. Waiting till probably April will feel like an eternity!!!

O.K. so I will stand firm in my choice. I think the Center was in stock so at least I might have that soon... although I placed the order Sunday night and I still don't see the center showing as shipped??? I made sure to check the box that allows separate shipment of in stock items.
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post #4978 of 6970 Old 02-17-2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

Good points all. I guess the only reason I was thinking that way was $$$ for more channels. But the room filling comments are well taken. And as I mentioned before... the VGTs are just awesome looking.

Its the waiting that kills ya. Waiting till probably April will feel like an eternity!!!

O.K. so I will stand firm in my choice. I think the Center was in stock so at least I might have that soon... although I placed the order Sunday night and I still don't see the center showing as shipped??? I made sure to check the box that allows separate shipment of in stock items.


Just shot you a PM.
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post #4979 of 6970 Old 02-17-2011, 08:40 PM
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Just read the entire thread over the last few days. I am looking to update one of my home theater setups just because I am looking for a change. The setup that will probably be updates consists of the following:

Def Tech Mythos One (L/R)
Def Tech Mythos Eight (C)
Def Tech BPX (Rears)
Pioneer Elite VSX-23 AVR
Elemental Designs A3-200 sub

I am thinking of going for the following set up from Aperion:
Verus Forte (L/R/C)
dipole rears
Pioneer Elite 23 AVR
Elemental Designs A3-200 sub

Basically I want to upgrade my front three to Verus Fortes. I think I could even keep my current Def Tech rears if I had to and they would play well in this setup.

Couple of questions:
1. Anyone have Mythos Ones/Eights and change to Aperion Verus Fortes?
2. How would my current AVR do with the Fortes? I sit ~10 feet away and the rears are right above my L/R and at roughly 7 ft high. couch is right up against the back wall. elite 23 pushes the Mythos with NO problem at all.
3. Any chance I buy these and the upgrade program goes away before the year is up? Are ALL current customers protected by the upgrade even if the program goes away (as long as you qualify)

Thanks!
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post #4980 of 6970 Old 02-18-2011, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyvaz View Post

Couple of questions:
1. Anyone have Mythos Ones/Eights and change to Aperion Verus Fortes?
2. How would my current AVR do with the Fortes? I sit ~10 feet away and the rears are right above my L/R and at roughly 7 ft high. couch is right up against the back wall. elite 23 pushes the Mythos with NO problem at all.
3. Any chance I buy these and the upgrade program goes away before the year is up? Are ALL current customers protected by the upgrade even if the program goes away (as long as you qualify)

Thanks!

The Fortes aren't even out yet (or maybe they just shipped), so short of someone that works there, no one's even heard them, much less upgraded from the speakers you're referring to. Sorry, but I don't think you'll find a lot of help with that answer.

Your AVR should work great with the Fortes, and as far as the upgrade program, it's been around as long as the company has...I don't see it going away...certainly not anytime soon.
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