*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 167 - AVS Forum
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post #4981 of 6931 Old 02-18-2011, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger That View Post

The Fortes aren't even out yet (or maybe they just shipped), so short of someone that works there, no one's even heard them, much less upgraded from the speakers you're referring to. Sorry, but I don't think you'll find a lot of help with that answer.

Your AVR should work great with the Fortes, and as far as the upgrade program, it's been around as long as the company has...I don't see it going away...certainly not anytime soon.

Actually Forte towers in black have been shipping for about two weeks now, although the initial shipment we got was not large, so there are some folks out there that have them. But I agree asking for specific comparisons at this point is a long shot.

Nope, no plans to discontinue the trade up program, that would be very "un-Aperion"
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post #4982 of 6931 Old 02-18-2011, 08:45 PM
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What crossover settings are recommended for a setup with no sub but towers running full? Below are my current settings

6T FULL
5C 70HZ
4BP 80HZ
LFE 80

I just looked at my speaker specs and it looks like this should be a better setup

6T FULL
5C 80hz
4BP 90HZ
LFE 90hz

is that correct that the LFE should be set to the highest common denominator (or weakest link?)
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post #4983 of 6931 Old 02-19-2011, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Actually Forte towers in black have been shipping for about two weeks now, although the initial shipment we got was not large, so there are some folks out there that have them. But I agree asking for specific comparisons at this point is a long shot.

Nope, no plans to discontinue the trade up program, that would be very "un-Aperion"


Thanks! I have someone interested in buying my front 3 next week. If the deal goes through, I will order the Forte front 3 the same day. I may have to use my dipole Def Tech rears in my set up for now. But they should work for the time being. If I feel they don't blend well after a week or so I will order your rear surrounds. Wish me luck on the sale!!!

Thanks,
Joe
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post #4984 of 6931 Old 02-19-2011, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

is that correct that the LFE should be set to the highest common denominator (or weakest link?)

The LFE channel is usually connected to a sub, and since you don't have a sub, the LFE signals will be directed to your front speakers, so you should set the LPF (low pass filter) for the LFE as high as is allowed, since your front speakers are full range. This setting is independent of the cross-over settings for other speakers.

You should consider adding a sub as your next upgrade though. HT is just incomplete without one.
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post #4985 of 6931 Old 02-20-2011, 07:58 AM
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With my Aperion setup - a Sub is not possible.

The 6T's (despite having 1" of ultra high density open cell foam underneith) when ran at "full" vibrate my floor to the point where you can feel it while sitting 10 feet away on your feet.

I also have a 7x9 carpet in front of the home theater, and the Onkyo 607 has its bass set at -2, and Speaker levels around -5. I have to watch most blurays with bass set at -4 and Dyn volume at medium (otherwise its on light).

They go deep enough for my use......the neighbors to the right and below will complain.
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post #4986 of 6931 Old 02-20-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

They go deep enough for my use......the neighbors to the right and below will complain.

That's good to hear. I'm glad that you are happy with your 6Ts. Can't wait to get my VGTs.

I don't have to worry about neighbors here. I got some SACDs yesterday, so I played a couple of them at reference level, in the middle of the night (the wife was out of town), with the sub at full blast. It's pure bliss.
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post #4987 of 6931 Old 02-20-2011, 02:38 PM
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Just an update on my Forte towers+ Center purchase. I received them last week but have been way too busy to even really listen to them. At the same time I also upgraded my Blu-Ray player to an Oppo 93 and my receiver to a Denon 4311CI (got a killer deal on an open box at abt with 18 mos interest free financing).

First, the speakers were packaged well with clear instructions on how to open them. They also came with the speaker care kit which included a pair of "white gloves" and a cloth to wipe the fingerprints off of the black finish, which is gorgeous. Out of the box, it surprised me on how small they were. I knew what the dimensions were, but until I saw them, it apparently just didn't register. Now, this was what I was looking for so I couldn't have been happier. They fit into the space that I use perfectly. Connecting the speaker wire was easy since there is plenty of room between the two sets of terminals. The Center speaker sported the same finish as the towers and was also easy to connect. While the towers have two metal "feet" to screw into the base, the center sits on two black rubber strips that you can use to tilt it up or down.

After I set everything up and made all of the connections to the new receiver, I went two weeks without really testing them out. I was able to do that over the last several days. Now, a bit of warning. I'm not really an audiophile (yet) and I'm upgrading from the HSU ventriloquist satellite system, so almost any type of towers would be a huge improvement. The first thing that I did was play several tracks from various Beatles albums from the stereo box set. I was instantly impressed. I heard things from "Because" that I never knew were there. This applied to several of the later recordings. The detail was great. I then put in the SACD version of "Take Five" and had the same results. I played several other SACD's and I have to say that, to my ear, the CD's sounded much better than the SACD's. No idea why.

After listening to the music, I watched a movie. I have the Forte's paired with a HSU STF-2 subwoofer and two Energy cr-10's set to bipole mode. They seemed to match pretty well. I started out with Gladiator and was instantly unpressed how the sound filled the room. The dialogue was clear and crisp and the music was great. This applied to two other movies that I watched. This was a huge step up for me and I was glad that I took it.

My final verdict is overwhelmingly positive. The Forte's fit perfectly into my space and provide great sound for the money. That being said, I do plan on changing my setup when I remodel my house. At that time, I plan on trading up to the VG's because I thing that the Forte's would be just too small.

Would I recommend the Forte's? Absolutely. I love them. I think that my highest compliment would be this: I was never someone who sat down and just listened to music. Now I do.

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post #4988 of 6931 Old 02-20-2011, 05:02 PM
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts and observations. They were very helpful and informative. I'm glad you are enjoying your new setup.
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post #4989 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 10:32 AM
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I'm really happy with my 6T's.

was going to upgrade to 6C's but they wont fit on my shelf
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post #4990 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 11:20 AM
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I'm really happy with my 6T's.

was going to upgrade to 6C's but they wont fit on my shelf

I just reconfirmed why I bought the 6Ts again on the weekend. I went into Best Buy (the Magnolia to be exact) and went to try out their best speakers there. I only saw some B&W 683 and 684 towers. I switch to these speakers and was clearly disappointed. The vocals were so bad. With the 6Ts, you can hear the silky smooth, airy sound from vocals, but the B&Ws were so scratchy and compressed sounding. And for instruments, they don't sound plucky and sharp like with the 6T. I wanted to check out the bass as well and turned off the sub and it was definitely lacking versus the 6T. So to be fair, these speakers were quite a bit cheaper than the 6Ts. I think they retailed for $800/pair. One thing I will give the B&W speakers are, is their design. They do look pretty, but I question the materials. Not sure if they were made of wood. But my question is, is this the best that you can buy at Best Buy? If so, I'd be pretty disappointed if I was just a customer looking to buy speakers at a Big Box store.
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post #4991 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 03:59 PM
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I just reconfirmed why I bought the 6Ts again on the weekend. I went into Best Buy (the Magnolia to be exact) and went to try out their best speakers there. I only saw some B&W 683 and 684 towers. I switch to these speakers and was clearly disappointed. The vocals were so bad. With the 6Ts, you can hear the silky smooth, airy sound from vocals, but the B&Ws were so scratchy and compressed sounding. And for instruments, they don't sound plucky and sharp like with the 6T. I wanted to check out the bass as well and turned off the sub and it was definitely lacking versus the 6T. So to be fair, these speakers were quite a bit cheaper than the 6Ts. I think they retailed for $800/pair. One thing I will give the B&W speakers are, is their design. They do look pretty, but I question the materials. Not sure if they were made of wood. But my question is, is this the best that you can buy at Best Buy? If so, I'd be pretty disappointed if I was just a customer looking to buy speakers at a Big Box store.

Bestbuy also caries the B&W CM series which are a step up from the 600 series. The CM series doesn't sound as compressed as the 600 series. I still think the VGTs sound better then the CM series and the CM series cost more I believe. I would have to do a true A/B comparison to point out all the main differences.
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post #4992 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 04:30 PM
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So today I was hanging out at Aperion picking up some VGBs to replace my 5Ts for surround duty. I'm planning on creating a second 2ch set up in a sort of lounge area. I'm still in the planning stages so I wanted to put the VGBs up against the Forte towers. My room is only a 10 x 10 room so I needed something that sounded good at lower volumes.

Here was my play list:
Mishka Adams - Les Feuilles Mortes (Autumn Leaves)
Koop - Koop Island Blues
Melody Gardot - Your Heart Is As Black As Night
Brad Mehldau & Pat Metheny - A Night Away
Deadmau5 - Ghosts N Stuff
Ratatat - Drugs

I also was listening to the 8D to see how it handled just music.
I play list is mostly made up of some cool jazz and indie electronica. As a whole it allows for listening to dynamics and detail.

I started out with the VGBs. Coming from being a VGT owner I wasnt sure how I would like the VGBs. But going through my play list I was pretty impressed with these little bookshelf speakers. Paired with the 8D everything sounded effortless. I was impressed in the frequency range they were able to put out. The only thing I really noticed and it might have been the set up but the imaging / soundstage was a little off. They made everyhting sound like it was only front and center. Which I don't know maybe some people like that. I like to feel like I can hear where each person was playing while performing but also having a grouped sound. I also felt like the VGBs were a little laid back on the highes. Besides that man what a great sound.

On to the Forte towers....yes i know moving onto my favorites which are towers so I might be a little biased. I dont know if you have looked at the Forte towers but they a small. They take up less room then the VGB's with stands. Any way once I went through my playlist again I knew I had to get the Forte towers for my small 2ch set up. Instantly my expectations on soundstage came back. Everything sounded in it's correct place. The mids were a little fuller and they have a nice bass punch to them. Also I think they have a little more clarity in the highs picking out greater detail. Wow is all I have to say.

Even though I wouldn't trade my VGTs for anything I still think the Forte line up has impressed me the most out of all the speakers I have heard at Aperion. If you are looking for a great value for a small to medium room the Forte speakers will not let you down. I would say they sound even better then something like the B&W 600 series.

I will be getting the Forte towers when I'm ready for my 2ch set up.

Thanks for letting me ramble on......
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post #4993 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonLavs View Post

One thing I will give the B&W speakers are, is their design. They do look pretty, but I question the materials. Not sure if they were made of wood. But my question is, is this the best that you can buy at Best Buy? If so, I'd be pretty disappointed if I was just a customer looking to buy speakers at a Big Box store.

Nope... the 600 series is "Vinyl Veneer" over MDF.
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post #4994 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by IZETECI View Post

So today I was hanging out at Aperion picking up some VGBs to replace my 5Ts for surround duty. I'm planning on creating a second 2ch set up in a sort of lounge area. I'm still in the planning stages so I wanted to put the VGBs up against the Forte towers. My room is only a 10 x 10 room so I needed something that sounded good at lower volumes.

Here was my play list:
Mishka Adams - Les Feuilles Mortes (Autumn Leaves)
Koop - Koop Island Blues
Melody Gardot - Your Heart Is As Black As Night
Brad Mehldau & Pat Metheny - A Night Away
Deadmau5 - Ghosts N Stuff
Ratatat - Drugs

I also was listening to the 8D to see how it handled just music.
I play list is mostly made up of some cool jazz and indie electronica. As a whole it allows for listening to dynamics and detail.

I started out with the VGBs. Coming from being a VGT owner I wasnt sure how I would like the VGBs. But going through my play list I was pretty impressed with these little bookshelf speakers. Paired with the 8D everything sounded effortless. I was impressed in the frequency range they were able to put out. The only thing I really noticed and it might have been the set up but the imaging / soundstage was a little off. They made everyhting sound like it was only front and center. Which I don't know maybe some people like that. I like to feel like I can hear where each person was playing while performing but also having a grouped sound. I also felt like the VGBs were a little laid back on the highes. Besides that man what a great sound.

On to the Forte towers....yes i know moving onto my favorites which are towers so I might be a little biased. I dont know if you have looked at the Forte towers but they a small. They take up less room then the VGB's with stands. Any way once I went through my playlist again I knew I had to get the Forte towers for my small 2ch set up. Instantly my expectations on soundstage came back. Everything sounded in it's correct place. The mids were a little fuller and they have a nice bass punch to them. Also I think they have a little more clarity in the highs picking out greater detail. Wow is all I have to say.

Even though I wouldn't trade my VGTs for anything I still think the Forte line up has impressed me the most out of all the speakers I have heard at Aperion. If you are looking for a great value for a small to medium room the Forte speakers will not let you down. I would say they sound even better then something like the B&W 600 series.

I will be getting the Forte towers when I'm ready for my 2ch set up.

Thanks for letting me ramble on......

Awesome. Thanks for your thoughts. Did you listen to the Forte Center?
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post #4995 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 05:01 PM
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Awesome. Thanks for your thoughts. Did you listen to the Forte Center?

I didn't listen to it this time I was only doing a comparison of the VGB and Forte towers.

But I have listed to it before. The cool thing about living 5 minutes from Aperion is I normally get to listen to things right as they are coming out.

What do you want to know about the Forte center?
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post #4996 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RayoVac329 View Post

Nope... the 600 series is "Vinyl Veneer" over MDF.

Yeah at the 600 series price point I would take a pair of PSB T6s. Still vinly I believe but way better value. Or I would put the 5T or Forte towers up against the 600 series any day.
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post #4997 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 05:13 PM
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I didn't listen to it this time I was only doing a comparison of the VGB and Forte towers.

But I have listed to it before. The cool thing about living 5 minutes from Aperion is I normally get to listen to things right as they are coming out.

What do you want to know about the Forte center?

I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a center channel speaker and then soon down the road I plan to upgrade my fronts to the VGT's. I guess I am wondering how the Forte center compares to the 5C and the VGC. I'm leaning toward the Forte center because of the nice price and also the sleek lines.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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post #4998 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 05:37 PM
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I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a center channel speaker and then soon down the road I plan to upgrade my fronts to the VGT's. I guess I am wondering how the Forte center compares to the 5C and the VGC. I'm leaning toward the Forte center because of the nice price and also the sleek lines.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

What are you using for L/R speakers currently? When do you think you will upg to the VGTs? How big is your room?
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post #4999 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 06:48 PM
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What are you using for L/R speakers currently? When do you think you will upg to the VGTs? How big is your room?

I am currently using some old Fisher ST-512 Floor Speakers that I inherited. I am in a 13' x 18' room where half of one wall opens to the dining room. The ceilings are vaulted - so they slope from 7' on one end to 12' on the other end.

I had hoped to purchase the VGT's with tax refund money, but it turns out that my refund is much, much smaller than I expected. So it is still in the works.

I am also still on a Denon 1909. So I've been concerned about it all being underpowered.
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post #5000 of 6931 Old 02-21-2011, 07:13 PM
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I am currently using some old Fisher ST-512 Floor Speakers that I inherited. I am in a 13' x 18' room where half of one wall opens to the dining room. The ceilings are vaulted - so they slope from 7' on one end to 12' on the other end.

I had hoped to purchase the VGT's with tax refund money, but it turns out that my refund is much, much smaller than I expected. So it is still in the works.

I am also still on a Denon 1909. So I've been concerned about it all being underpowered.

Well wow you have all sorts of challenges.
Well to start i haven't heard the 5C since I used to have one. But comparing the VGC to the VFC isn't really fair. The VGC is a much bigger speaker. It produces a larger frequency range with better mids and lower end. I would say both have great clarity in the highs. Both have the ability to produce nice dialog. i think the VGC handles special effects that go through the center channel much better.

But I think if you are set with the VGT then you should get the VGC for a matching sound. Depending on how loud you listen to movies/music I would say that you could do all Forte speakers and use the money you save to buy a better receiver. I watched a few movie scenes with all the Forte speakers and it really sounded good.
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post #5001 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 11:06 AM
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Got the slimstage 30 on the wall... Sounds great have no idea how I got by w/ tv speakers for more than one day. Sub is a must tho. Only complaint is off axis after 10ft (wifeys seat) the remote doesn't work. Other than that it's perfect.

I know i know, I'll deal with the wire issues all at one time so no wire jokes. Lol. Not sure how ill soundstage the rec room and then Im pretty sure I'll go 6t or verus in the theater room (not pictured just 15 x 21 blank slate). Excuse the iPhone pics too.

Thanks to Hicks for the hassle free deal and quick shipment and aperion for a solid product. Almost as fun to order as it was to get it.
LL
LL
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post #5002 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 11:26 AM
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Got the slimstage 30 on the wall... Sounds great have no idea how I got by w/ tv speakers for more than one day. Sub is a must tho. Only complaint is off axis after 10ft (wifeys seat) the remote doesn't work. Other than that it's perfect.

I know i know, I'll deal with the wire issues all at one time so no wire jokes. Lol. Not sure how ill soundstage the rec room and then Im pretty sure I'll go 6t or verus in the theater room (not pictured just 15 x 21 blank slate). Excuse the iPhone pics too.

Thanks to Hicks for the hassle free deal and quick shipment and aperion for a solid product. Almost as fun to order as it was to get it.

What the...? You have 2 TVs in the same room? Craziness!
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post #5003 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by IZETECI View Post

So today I was hanging out at Aperion picking up some VGBs to replace my 5Ts for surround duty. I'm planning on creating a second 2ch set up in a sort of lounge area. I'm still in the planning stages so I wanted to put the VGBs up against the Forte towers. My room is only a 10 x 10 room so I needed something that sounded good at lower volumes.

Here was my play list:
Mishka Adams - Les Feuilles Mortes (Autumn Leaves)
Koop - Koop Island Blues
Melody Gardot - Your Heart Is As Black As Night
Brad Mehldau & Pat Metheny - A Night Away
Deadmau5 - Ghosts N Stuff
Ratatat - Drugs

I also was listening to the 8D to see how it handled just music.
I play list is mostly made up of some cool jazz and indie electronica. As a whole it allows for listening to dynamics and detail.

I started out with the VGBs. Coming from being a VGT owner I wasnt sure how I would like the VGBs. But going through my play list I was pretty impressed with these little bookshelf speakers. Paired with the 8D everything sounded effortless. I was impressed in the frequency range they were able to put out. The only thing I really noticed and it might have been the set up but the imaging / soundstage was a little off. They made everyhting sound like it was only front and center. Which I don't know maybe some people like that. I like to feel like I can hear where each person was playing while performing but also having a grouped sound. I also felt like the VGBs were a little laid back on the highes. Besides that man what a great sound.

On to the Forte towers....yes i know moving onto my favorites which are towers so I might be a little biased. I dont know if you have looked at the Forte towers but they a small. They take up less room then the VGB's with stands. Any way once I went through my playlist again I knew I had to get the Forte towers for my small 2ch set up. Instantly my expectations on soundstage came back. Everything sounded in it's correct place. The mids were a little fuller and they have a nice bass punch to them. Also I think they have a little more clarity in the highs picking out greater detail. Wow is all I have to say.

Even though I wouldn't trade my VGTs for anything I still think the Forte line up has impressed me the most out of all the speakers I have heard at Aperion. If you are looking for a great value for a small to medium room the Forte speakers will not let you down. I would say they sound even better then something like the B&W 600 series.

I will be getting the Forte towers when I'm ready for my 2ch set up.

Thanks for letting me ramble on......

Being a local guy it's always fun to be able to stop by for a listen to the new speakers...I too was impressed with the Forte line...I'll be looking to upgrade from my 4T's some day....

Ray
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post #5004 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by IZETECI View Post

Well wow you have all sorts of challenges.
Well to start i haven't heard the 5C since I used to have one. But comparing the VGC to the VFC isn't really fair. The VGC is a much bigger speaker. It produces a larger frequency range with better mids and lower end. I would say both have great clarity in the highs. Both have the ability to produce nice dialog. i think the VGC handles special effects that go through the center channel much better.

But I think if you are set with the VGT then you should get the VGC for a matching sound. Depending on how loud you listen to movies/music I would say that you could do all Forte speakers and use the money you save to buy a better receiver. I watched a few movie scenes with all the Forte speakers and it really sounded good.

Not a bad idea. Although, I listen to mostly music (70%/30%), and I enjoy listening at fairly loud levels. On one hand, a better receiver would definitely be a good idea. Although, I definitely had my mind set on the VGT's.

Hmm... I guess this gives me something to think about.
Thanks again for your input.
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post #5005 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gpzbc View Post

Not a bad idea. Although, I listen to mostly music (70%/30%), and I enjoy listening at fairly loud levels. On one hand, a better receiver would definitely be a good idea. Although, I definitely had my mind set on the VGT's.

Hmm... I guess this gives me something to think about.
Thanks again for your input.

yeah I would say if you listen to mostly music at loud volumes the VGTs would be my first choice. Taking that into consideration I would get the VGC.
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post #5006 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 04:23 PM
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I am considering the Versus line for my LCR. Ideally, I would like the Grand bookshelves and center, but the grand center blows my budget. As an alternative, I was thinking a pair of Grand bookshelves and a Forte center. Does mixing the Forte and Grand lines of the Versus series break the LCR matching rule?

Perhaps, getting the LGBs and LFC then using the upgrade plan if it doesn't sound right.

Thoughts?

As an alternative, I was considering the Intimus 5B and 5C. Are these comparable?
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post #5007 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 04:25 PM
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I've also considered the Verus Center to upgrade my 5C paired with 6T LR's
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post #5008 of 6931 Old 02-22-2011, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bane888 View Post

As an alternative, I was thinking a pair of Grand bookshelves and a Forte center. Does mixing the Forte and Grand lines of the Versus series break the LCR matching rule?

Just chatted with Aperion and they confirmed that all of the Versus speakers are voice matched.

Despite that, given the 1yr upgrade service, I decided to go with VFB and VFC right now and if I need more, I will do the upgrade. I have my order number.
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post #5009 of 6931 Old 02-23-2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jonLavs View Post

What the...? You have 2 TVs in the same room? Craziness!

uhhh, doesnt everyone? ...well its the rec room area...theres a bar to the left and open space to the right as well. What im trying to figure out is how to set up sound. Im thinking one will have to serve as the "main event" tv and center the sound around that one for when its in use. If i put the sound in the middle, it is off center from which ever tv has the volume on. might just do another slimstage for that area and just go crazy for the theater room. open to suggestions too tho lol
*once its all done then all the fios boxes will be in one closet and run thru a switcher to the panels throughout the home (these 3 and another 50" in the bedroom) so any suggestions on how to put the sound together are appreciated
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post #5010 of 6931 Old 02-23-2011, 01:34 PM
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If anyones' interested I am selling my 4 532's and mounts included in the speaker section...pretty decent price. Thanks Browning

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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