*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 187 - AVS Forum
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post #5581 of 6974 Old 10-05-2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Because it's misleading. They can call it the 4n (new) or the 4s (special) or the 4x (xtra cheap) or the 2012 4 or whatever. I don't have any problem with what they're doing in terms of building a cheaper speaker as long as it's properly named/labeled. Specs should not change on an existing model, especially if it's not for the better. If I go to a friend's house and audition a "4" and order it, I expect the same speaker. I shouldn't be getting a radically different design (and this is a radically different design.)

What you have to ask is why didn't they change the model designation? I guarantee you they would have changed the designation had they made the speaker better regardless of whether they changed the selling price. They didn't change the designation because while they might want people to notice the lower price, they don't want people to notice that the specs are inferior.

End of story. Don't make excuses for them just because we like the company and their products.

Which inferior specs are you referring to, the cabinet thickness? Is a speaker that is 3 mm thinner, just over a 1/10th of an inch, but uses the same drivers and the same level of quality crossover parts really radically different in your estimation?

Personally I think the specs in terms of how it sounds are the most important and the new Intimus speakers are more sensitive and have the same frequency response as the old ones.

Honestly we've worked really hard on these speakers to offer a product that we feel is the sonic equivalent of the previous version, and that the changes are cosmetic.
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post #5582 of 6974 Old 10-05-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dcg44s View Post

Thanks for the reply Jason,unfortunately in my case I am looking to match a Med Cherry finish on my 4Bs so the final shipment of Gloss Black still won't help in my case.I'm not sure what I will do but the world won't end.Now if I had bought Verus Grands and the finish changed............

What are you looking for in particular?

I can't promise anything but I can be on the lookout for open box speakers for you.
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post #5583 of 6974 Old 10-05-2011, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

What are you looking for in particular?

I can't promise anything but I can be on the lookout for open box speakers for you.

Thanks Jason.I'd like to add a matching 4C and a second set of 4Bs.These will likely end up in a bedroom setup where music is primary and movies are secondary.In that environment I think the 4Bs will be enough and that the small size will fit in better but I'd be open to options.
If I could just get a matching 4C since the front three are in close proximity I could maybe live with the surrounds being the new finish.
I keep an eye on the open box page but it seems that the gloss black was more popular.
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post #5584 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Which inferior specs are you referring to, the cabinet thickness? Is a speaker that is 3 mm thinner, just over a 1/10th of an inch, but uses the same drivers and the same level of quality crossover parts really radically different in your estimation?

Personally I think the specs in terms of how it sounds are the most important and the new Intimus speakers are more sensitive and have the same frequency response as the old ones.

Honestly we've worked really hard on these speakers to offer a product that we feel is the sonic equivalent of the previous version, and that the changes are cosmetic.

IMO, even if the changes were only cosmetic, the model # should have been changed. And it's not just that it's 3mm thinner, but you changed the material, correct? That's going to result in a different sound. Maybe a better sound, maybe a worse sound, but a different sound. And if you're using the same drivers and the same crossover, I'm having trouble understanding how sensitivity has changed.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's even improved in some ways. But IMO, and it's just an opinion, it should have received a new designation. I think this is especially important with your company because you only sell direct. I can't go to a retailer and view them, touch them and audition them. Even though you have liberal return policies, I think full disclosure is important for companies such as yours, which prides itself on its high level of quality and customer service. The second reason why it's important is because many people don't buy speakers for all channels at the same time. Maybe they buy L and R fronts first, then a center and then the surrounds. (I'm probably going to order a center channel speaker myself soon.) So if something has changed that impacts the ability to obtain sonic or aesthetic consistency, even if it is only cosmetic, that's important.

I'm really not trying to be over-critical or a web troll. IMO, you've opened the door for "objections" and the first rule of selling is to overcome customers' objections. We wouldn't even be discussing this if you had changed the designation to the "4a" or "4i" (improved) or whatever. You could have even turned all this into a positive: "Our genius engineers have found a way to deliver the same sound at a lower price point by incorporating better materials and improving manufacturing efficiency. So if you didn't think you could afford these great speakers before, take another look at the new improved 4x."
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post #5585 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

IMO, even if the changes were only cosmetic, the model # should have been changed. And it's not just that it's 3mm thinner, but you changed the material, correct? That's going to result in a different sound. Maybe a better sound, maybe a worse sound, but a different sound. And if you're using the same drivers and the same crossover, I'm having trouble understanding how sensitivity has changed.

Jason stated that the 4 series always used MDF... and never HDF... which was news to me, since everything I read stated otherwise. So apparently the material didn't change, just the thickness (18mm to 15mm).

This is a source of confusion though, because multiple reviewers (Affordable Audio, GoodSound!, Secrets of Home Theater HiFi, Audioholics) of the original 4 series state they are made of 3/4" HDF.

It also seems Aperion originally marketed the 4 series as HDF cabinets:
http://widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=16530
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-ne...r-speaker.html
"Anti-Resonant Cabinet
Every Intimus speaker cabinet is made ofrock solid high density fiberboard (HDF) to eliminate unwanted cabinetvibrations, effectively muting the walls of the speaker, ensuring that the onlyvoice you hear is coming from your CD or DVD."


If Aperion decided to produce the 4 series using MDF instead of HDF... that should have been made clear. Obviously it wasn't, or basically every reviewer would not have stated the cabinets were HDF.


As Jason pointed out, the sensitivity went up a little because the interior of the volume increased slightly, due to thinner cabinet walls (since the exterior dimensions are unchanged)... So after re-tuning the port for the slightly larger volume, the design a bit more efficient...

EDIT: Didn't know about dropping magnetic shielding from the woofers, and resulting increased sensitivity from doing so... Thanks for the added info Jason.
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post #5586 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

IMO, even if the changes were only cosmetic, the model # should have been changed. And it's not just that it's 3mm thinner, but you changed the material, correct? That's going to result in a different sound. Maybe a better sound, maybe a worse sound, but a different sound. And if you're using the same drivers and the same crossover, I'm having trouble understanding how sensitivity has changed.

There's nothing wrong with any of that. Maybe it's even improved in some ways. But IMO, and it's just an opinion, it should have received a new designation. I think this is especially important with your company because you only sell direct. I can't go to a retailer and view them, touch them and audition them. Even though you have liberal return policies, I think full disclosure is important for companies such as yours, which prides itself on its high level of quality and customer service. The second reason why it's important is because many people don't buy speakers for all channels at the same time. Maybe they buy L and R fronts first, then a center and then the surrounds. (I'm probably going to order a center channel speaker myself soon.) So if something has changed that impacts the ability to obtain sonic or aesthetic consistency, even if it is only cosmetic, that's important.

I'm really not trying to be over-critical or a web troll. IMO, you've opened the door for "objections" and the first rule of selling is to overcome customers' objections. We wouldn't even be discussing this if you had changed the designation to the "4a" or "4i" (improved) or whatever. You could have even turned all this into a positive: "Our genius engineers have found a way to deliver the same sound at a lower price point by incorporating better materials and improving manufacturing efficiency. So if you didn't think you could afford these great speakers before, take another look at the new improved 4x."

The previous 4T and this one were both MDF cabinets, it's just the thickness that changed. There is one other change that I haven't mentioned and that is that the drivers are no longer shielded because practically no one has a CRT anymore, so we didn't feel it was necessary. Without the heavier shielded magnet we can get a little more motor strength from the drivers which increases the speaker's sensitivity, along with the change in cabinet volume due to the change in the thickness.

I do think it is a positive, let's face it a lot of people out there don't have a ton of extra money these days so I think delivering a product that is still high quality at a lower price point is a win-win situation.

But your point is well taken, and while I don't think I am going to be able to convince our marketing department to change the names at this point I have suggested that we make it more apparent on the site that this is a new version of these speakers.

Finally as for the warranty I have discussed it with our team and while the cabinet warranty for our new Intimus speakers will be five years, we have decided to continue the 10 year warranty on our drivers. It's the right thing to do and has long been a distinction of our company that we need to keep in place.

Thanks to everyone for providing their feedback!
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post #5587 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 09:46 AM
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Jason,
On a side note...

Can the new feet/base for the 4T be used with the original 4T as well? If so, how much would a set cost?

The original base is nice, since it has matching veneer/gloss finish, but it's also the part most likely to get scratched/dinged when moving the speakers.

Plus, I also like how the new base doesn't extend as far front/back... It makes it easier to being the baffle forward (if you need to get it past a TV stand, or in line with the center, ect.) without having the base sticking out that extra bit. Not only that, but I'd expect the new bass makes the speaker more stable due to the increased width.
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post #5588 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 11:04 AM
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About to post a set of black intimus 5db bi/dipole speakers up on the classifieds, thought I would get the word out here first. PM me if anyone is interested. They are in perfect condition, used for about 5 months for surround duty so not pushed hard at all...

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #5589 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Jason,
On a side note...

Can the new feet/base for the 4T be used with the original 4T as well? If so, how much would a set cost?

The original base is nice, since it has matching veneer/gloss finish, but it's also the part most likely to get scratched/dinged when moving the speakers.

Plus, I also like how the new base doesn't extend as far front/back... It makes it easier to being the baffle forward (if you need to get it past a TV stand, or in line with the center, ect.) without having the base sticking out that extra bit. Not only that, but I'd expect the new bass makes the speaker more stable due to the increased width.

As a matter of fact you could use the new feet with the old 4T, you would just have to use the screws that are holding the current base so they fit the threads in the speaker.

If you want to order a pair I could sell them to you for $25 including shipping, thanks!
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post #5590 of 6974 Old 10-06-2011, 05:05 PM
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What are you looking for in particular?

I can't promise anything but I can be on the lookout for open box speakers for you.

I'd like to thank Jason and Matt from Aperion for hooking me up with an original medium cherry 4C in no time at all.Excellent speakers and excellent customer service.Thanks guys,you rock.
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post #5591 of 6974 Old 10-07-2011, 05:39 AM
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Any aperion owners have any experience with cantons or their GLE series. I'm thinking about switch ti the aperions.
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post #5592 of 6974 Old 10-08-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hicks View Post


The previous 4T and this one were both MDF cabinets, it's just the thickness that changed. There is one other change that I haven't mentioned and that is that the drivers are no longer shielded because practically no one has a CRT anymore, so we didn't feel it was necessary. Without the heavier shielded magnet we can get a little more motor strength from the drivers which increases the speaker's sensitivity, along with the change in cabinet volume due to the change in the thickness.

I do think it is a positive, let's face it a lot of people out there don't have a ton of extra money these days so I think delivering a product that is still high quality at a lower price point is a win-win situation.

But your point is well taken, and while I don't think I am going to be able to convince our marketing department to change the names at this point I have suggested that we make it more apparent on the site that this is a new version of these speakers.

Finally as for the warranty I have discussed it with our team and while the cabinet warranty for our new Intimus speakers will be five years, we have decided to continue the 10 year warranty on our drivers. It's the right thing to do and has long been a distinction of our company that we need to keep in place.

Thanks to everyone for providing their feedback!

A little late but I do agree in principle that any change warrants a .1 or some small designation. While other industries dont always do It (Automotive for instance will make changes and keep the same model badging) It seems customary In the electronic/tech industry no matter how large or small the change, a new version gets some sort of designation. I personally couldnt care less in this case given what the changes were, but objectively speaking I would agree with Zoe, in principal.

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post #5593 of 6974 Old 10-08-2011, 09:12 AM
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A little late but I do agree in principle that any change warrants a .1 or some small designation. While other industries dont always do It (Automotive for instance will make changes and keep the same model badging) It seems customary In the electronic/tech industry no matter how large or small the change, a new version gets some sort of designation. I personally couldnt care less in this case given what the changes were, but objectively speaking I would agree with Zoe, in principal.

I don't mind the changes, but I do also agree. And even with automobiles I would argue it is indicated. When you buy a car, you buy a 2011 Camry, or a 2012 Camry. It is easy to distinguish what version of a car you are getting, and thus easy go find out what features to expect.
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post #5594 of 6974 Old 10-08-2011, 09:25 AM
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@hicks and all I'm on the lookout for an open box sub. Pref 8 pref black but will consider any. Going in the fam room along with a slimstage 30. Thanks.

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post #5595 of 6974 Old 10-08-2011, 09:39 AM
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I don't mind the changes, but I do also agree. And even with automobiles I would argue it is indicated. When you buy a car, you buy a 2011 Camry, or a 2012 Camry. It is easy to distinguish what version of a car you are getting, and thus easy go find out what features to expect.

Generally speaking you're right but, vehicles will get changes in materials (because of cost or availability) patches or reprograms during a model year and you'd never know it and the only way to tell is by the date the vehicle left the plant

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post #5596 of 6974 Old 10-08-2011, 09:56 AM
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Generally speaking you're right but, vehicles will get changes in materials (because of cost or availability) patches or reprograms during a model year and you'd never know it and the only way to tell is by the date the vehicle left the plant

This is true.

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post #5597 of 6974 Old 10-10-2011, 12:30 PM
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Anyone have a space around 6000 cubic feet? Do think two 12D's would work well?

I have one 12D and was either going to add another or sell it and get a rythmik fv15hp instead.

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post #5598 of 6974 Old 10-10-2011, 01:00 PM
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@hicks and all I'm on the lookout for an open box sub. Pref 8 pref black but will consider any. Going in the fam room along with a slimstage 30. Thanks.


Give me a call and we'll see what I have on hand for you, thanks!
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post #5599 of 6974 Old 10-10-2011, 04:20 PM
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@Hicks

How many 5C centers are in stock? I have been eyeing one for a while now, but cant get on one until next month...
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post #5600 of 6974 Old 10-11-2011, 08:17 AM
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@Hicks

How many 5C centers are in stock? I have been eyeing one for a while now, but cant get on one until next month...

In cherry I have about a month supply left.

For the black finish I will be getting one more shipment next month which should last through the end of the year.
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post #5601 of 6974 Old 10-20-2011, 09:59 AM
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Hey everyone, if you are considering ordering a Verus set up and are on the fence you might want to take advantage of our October promo where we are doing a $200 discount on select Verus systems:

http://www.aperionaudio.com/verus_systems.aspx
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post #5602 of 6974 Old 10-20-2011, 07:40 PM
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Hi All,

I am only a few days away from my purchase of my new speakers. I currently have the EMP E55Ti, but these are sold just holding them for the new owner until this month end. The sale has been a long time in coming, with much disappointment along the way, but patience paid off.

My dilemma is choosing between the two speakers mentioned above. I have the option of getting both of these speakers and they are in great condition. But I need an honest opinion on whether the VGT's are that much a better speaker than its sibling the 6T's. I know the 6T was Aperion flagship prior to the VGT's but is it really worth the money to get the VGT over 6T?

I would truly appreciate any feedback from anyone who has heard them both. Also if you have compared the EMPe55ti's and the VGT's what is your impression? Am I in store for a WOW factor, or a buyers remorse.
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post #5603 of 6974 Old 10-21-2011, 06:38 PM
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I would also be interested in hearing any comments from anyone who has been able to listen to both and compare.I started off thinking about 6Ts and shifted towards Verus Grands when the 6 series was discontinued but I've always been a bit curious as there are aspects of both speaker families that I like.
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post #5604 of 6974 Old 10-22-2011, 02:59 PM
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I've owned both, and no question the VGT is a better speaker. The 6T is no slouch, but I much prefer the sound of the new line. And I really love the smaller footprint of the VGT. The 6T's are HUGE.


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post #5605 of 6974 Old 10-22-2011, 06:54 PM
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Thanks, anyone else who have owned or listen to both would like to chime in? I would love to hear additional inputs.
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post #5606 of 6974 Old 10-23-2011, 08:36 PM
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Bump
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post #5607 of 6974 Old 10-24-2011, 05:31 AM
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Yes, I agree with Roger That. I just recently took advantage of the One Year Trade Up of 6T for the VGT. I prefer the sound of the VGT. Just sounds richer to me. My wife said the 6T sounded "tinny" next to the VGT. With that being said, the 6T is still a great sounding speaker.

My only complaint is the rear ports on the VGT. I preferred the front ports of the 6T. Made placement a tad easier. Even with that complaint, I still kept the VGT and sent back the 6T.

I also swapped the 6C for the VGC and the 5DB for the VSS.
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post #5608 of 6974 Old 10-24-2011, 10:57 AM
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Echoing the other comments on the VGT's, they set a new standard in the Aperion Line.

I was a very early adopter of the Verus Grands, ordering at the first announcement a year ago. Having owned the 6T's, I can say they are a very good speaker..but are not in the same league as the Verus Grands.

In terms of tonal quality the Verus Grands in my opinion provide a truer more vibrant sound than the 6T's..especially in the midrange. Aesthetically, no comparison, the Verus is a beautiful speaker with very appealing lines. As mentioned in a prior posting, the footprint of the Verus is so much more appealing than the 6T. The 6T requires a lot of floor space, which can limit placement as it did in my case.

I am not disparaging the 6T, it is an excellent speaker. As good as the 6T is, the Verus raises the bar that much higher.
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post #5609 of 6974 Old 10-24-2011, 01:49 PM
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Wow. I enjoy my 6T's everyday. The Verus must really be something special. I cross them at 80 btw.

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post #5610 of 6974 Old 10-24-2011, 02:39 PM
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Blueste, how do you like the new Verus Surrounds? I haven't heard anything about them yet...
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Aperion Audio , Aperion Audio Center Channel Speaker , Aperion Audio Verus Forte Tower Hd Black , Aperion Verus Grand Tower Speaker Gloss Piano Black , Aperion Audio Verus Forte Satellite Sd Black , Aperion Intimus 5b Fusion Sd , Marantz , Marantz Sr5007 Home Theater Av Receiver , Mcintosh Labs Mc 2100
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