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post #5701 of 6935 Old 12-16-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

There is a little bump in the frequency response around 200 Hz and Audyssey sees the down slope of that bump and thinks the speaker is going to continue to roll off from there, but it doesn't, it flattens out down to about 70 Hz or so.

Personally if it were me I would set the crossover at 80 and 200 and listen to it with both settings and see which you prefer.

I did some more reading in the Audyssey thread, and accidentally stumbled upon a post from someone whose crossovers on his mains (not Aperions) were being set higher than his specs indicated they should. He did some measurements (wish I understood more about them) and discovered that his listening position was in a null for one of his fronts. I wondered if this might also be my problem, so I moved my center as far back on my stand as possible. Lo and behold, Audyssey recommended a crossover of 120hz rather than 200hz.

I tested it at several other spots on the stand and always got 150-200hz from Audyssey. I wish I were able to push it a bit farther back or pull it out closer from where I originally had it, as I think I'd get a lower recommendation than 120hz from Audyssey if my space allowed me to do either. I'm convinced that my listening position is in a null for my room if the 5C is placed near the front of my stand. That may also explain the different readings Audyssey gave me on my 5T's after I moved them slightly. Interestingly enough, the polarity warning Audyssey repeatedly gave me for the 5C earlier was not given once after I began moving it around on the stand. Perhaps that was related to the null placement as well???

Anyhow, thanks for your feedback. I'll probably listen with the 5C crossed over at 120hz for a few days, then switch it to 80hz to see which I prefer. I just knew it shouldn't need to be crossed at 200hz, given the specs. Perhaps my experience will help someone else who runs into this issue.
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post #5702 of 6935 Old 12-17-2011, 06:55 AM
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eliasmavs,

Not going to comment on your speaker placement as you have received a good suggestion, however, I would seriously consider getting that Onkyo off the carpet. Onkyo's tend to run hot without any help and blocking off the bottom airflow like the carpet is doing is asking for trouble. If you must leave it on the floor, at least put something solid under it for the feet to sit on so it has good airflow from underneath.

Good luck,
Jeff
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post #5703 of 6935 Old 12-19-2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Lurker View Post

So, big newb question here. I have been doing a bunch of research on different parts and pieces for a home theater system and I think I have finally decided on what I want to go for.

Based off reviews and being forced to sit and ponder (Hard to make an impulse buy when I'm stuck in Afghanistan) I'm really leaning toward the whole Verus Grand system. Seems like the sound quality from reviews and owners can't be beat for the price and it has a style that I'm sure my wife won't raise an eyebrow to.

The only real question I have at this point is would a Marantz SR6006 do justice to the system? I'm still trying to learn about home theater so figuring out if the power or impedance supplied by the Marantz is enough leaves me a little confused. From what I have read the speakers nominal impedance is 6 ohms and the Marantz is 8...is this fine?

Thanks for answering my rambling question.

Hello there,

Yes I think if your room isn't huge then the 6006 should be fine with the Verus Forte system. If you are in a big room, say over 20X20 or want to push the system to high volumes then you might think about something more in the 120-130 watt/channel range. But the impedance of the speakers shouldn't be a problem.

I hope that helps but please let me know if you have any other questions and thank you for your service!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post

I did some more reading in the Audyssey thread, and accidentally stumbled upon a post from someone whose crossovers on his mains (not Aperions) were being set higher than his specs indicated they should. He did some measurements (wish I understood more about them) and discovered that his listening position was in a null for one of his fronts. I wondered if this might also be my problem, so I moved my center as far back on my stand as possible. Lo and behold, Audyssey recommended a crossover of 120hz rather than 200hz.

I tested it at several other spots on the stand and always got 150-200hz from Audyssey. I wish I were able to push it a bit farther back or pull it out closer from where I originally had it, as I think I'd get a lower recommendation than 120hz from Audyssey if my space allowed me to do either. I'm convinced that my listening position is in a null for my room if the 5C is placed near the front of my stand. That may also explain the different readings Audyssey gave me on my 5T's after I moved them slightly. Interestingly enough, the polarity warning Audyssey repeatedly gave me for the 5C earlier was not given once after I began moving it around on the stand. Perhaps that was related to the null placement as well???

Anyhow, thanks for your feedback. I'll probably listen with the 5C crossed over at 120hz for a few days, then switch it to 80hz to see which I prefer. I just knew it shouldn't need to be crossed at 200hz, given the specs. Perhaps my experience will help someone else who runs into this issue.

Interesting, I would not have thought it would be so drastically affected by room effects since the software itself is supposed to be used for room correction.

In any event 120 Hz should be quite a bit better then 200 Hz and might be a good middle ground if you want to keep all of the Audyssey settings.
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post #5704 of 6935 Old 12-19-2011, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

Interesting, I would not have thought it would be so drastically affected by room effects since the software itself is supposed to be used for room correction.

In any event 120 Hz should be quite a bit better then 200 Hz and might be a good middle ground if you want to keep all of the Audyssey settings.

I agree. But from what I understand from what I've read (and I could well be wrong), Audyssey can't really do anything for nulls in the room as there simply isn't enough there to correct. Or maybe the correction would require far more than Audyssey is equipped to do.

The more I listen to it, the happier I am and the more surprised I am that moving the 5C ~1 ft farther away actually makes it sound noticeably louder (with the same master volume control setting) at my listening position. I doubt I'll even try lowering the crossover to 80hz unless I begin to notice that I can "locate the sub." And, BTW, I'm really enjoying the 5T's for 2-channel music--thanks again for suggesting them rather than the 4T's.

Thank you for all your help in this thread.
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post #5705 of 6935 Old 12-20-2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post

I agree. But from what I understand from what I've read (and I could well be wrong), Audyssey can't really do anything for nulls in the room as there simply isn't enough there to correct. Or maybe the correction would require far more than Audyssey is equipped to do.

The more I listen to it, the happier I am and the more surprised I am that moving the 5C ~1 ft farther away actually makes it sound noticeably louder (with the same master volume control setting) at my listening position. I doubt I'll even try lowering the crossover to 80hz unless I begin to notice that I can "locate the sub." And, BTW, I'm really enjoying the 5T's for 2-channel music--thanks again for suggesting them rather than the 4T's.

Thank you for all your help in this thread.

Good point, I suppose there isn't much Audyssey can do when it isn't receiving any reflections from that part of the room.

Glad to help!
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post #5706 of 6935 Old 12-21-2011, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks View Post

In a room like that you really have three options for the surrounds: stands, wall mount to the back wall or ceiling mount. Stands to the sides will give you the best sound, but can be kind of obtrusive. Wall mounting to the back wall should give you better sound than a ceiling mount since you can usually direct the sound toward your listening position a little better. If you do go with that option then I recommend wall mounting them just wider than your couch by a few inches on each side and at a height of four to five feet off the ground.

The placement of the sub now looks good, one thing you might check out is the channel level for it in your receiver, sometimes the auto set up will set it too low. If all the other channel levels are positive and it is in the negative I recommend boosting the sub channel level up to +3-+5 dB.

If that doesn't help you can move it closer to the corner at the left side of the front of the room. The corner walls will reinforce its output, but the danger is that the sub will become boomy and overload the room, so you may have to experiment with just how close to that corner you place it.

That does look a little close to the floor, if it were me I'd get some of those round floor protectors that are made to go under furniture and put the feet on them to keep the spikes from sinking into the carpet as much.

I hope that helps but let me know if either of you still have questions, thanks!

Jason,
Thanks for the help. I've finished setting up the fronts and center so I will take you up on your advice and wall mount the surrounds. Another issue that comes up with the surrounds is that if I mount them at 4-5 ft high, they will succumb to being bumped by people passing by. Basically, the back of my couch creates a "hallway" with the wall behind it so I feel that the speakers would interfere with the walkway.

Can I mount them higher but angle the speakers down to alleviate the problem? What do you suggest?

Thanks again!
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post #5707 of 6935 Old 12-21-2011, 08:37 PM
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Quote:


In a room like that you really have three options for the surrounds: stands, wall mount to the back wall or ceiling mount. Stands to the sides will give you the best sound, but can be kind of obtrusive. Wall mounting to the back wall should give you better sound than a ceiling mount since you can usually direct the sound toward your listening position a little better. If you do go with that option then I recommend wall mounting them just wider than your couch by a few inches on each side and at a height of four to five feet off the ground.

The placement of the sub now looks good, one thing you might check out is the channel level for it in your receiver, sometimes the auto set up will set it too low. If all the other channel levels are positive and it is in the negative I recommend boosting the sub channel level up to +3-+5 dB.

If that doesn't help you can move it closer to the corner at the left side of the front of the room. The corner walls will reinforce its output, but the danger is that the sub will become boomy and overload the room, so you may have to experiment with just how close to that corner you place it.

That does look a little close to the floor, if it were me I'd get some of those round floor protectors that are made to go under furniture and put the feet on them to keep the spikes from sinking into the carpet as much.

I hope that helps but let me know if either of you still have questions, thanks!

Jason,

Thanks for the reply. I still have an issue with the placement of the surround speakers since directly behind the couch is my walkway. I worry that if the speakers are placed at a height of 4-5 ft, people may run into them, mainly me on a late night trip to the fridge...

Can you mount them higher, say 6-7 ft, and angle them down a bit? Thanks for the help.
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post #5708 of 6935 Old 12-21-2011, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemoon737 View Post

eliasmavs,

Not going to comment on your speaker placement as you have received a good suggestion, however, I would seriously consider getting that Onkyo off the carpet. Onkyo's tend to run hot without any help and blocking off the bottom airflow like the carpet is doing is asking for trouble. If you must leave it on the floor, at least put something solid under it for the feet to sit on so it has good airflow from underneath.

Good luck,
Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for the heads up. That was just a temporary setup while I was waiting to get a new entertainment center. Here's how it turned out:

Before:


After:
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post #5709 of 6935 Old 12-22-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliasmavs99 View Post

Jason,

Thanks for the reply. I still have an issue with the placement of the surround speakers since directly behind the couch is my walkway. I worry that if the speakers are placed at a height of 4-5 ft, people may run into them, mainly me on a late night trip to the fridge...

Can you mount them higher, say 6-7 ft, and angle them down a bit? Thanks for the help.

Yeah 6-7 feet is not too bad at all and if you can angle them toward your listening position you should still get a very good surround effect.

I'm out of here until next Wednesday, everyone have a good holiday, thanks!
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post #5710 of 6935 Old 12-22-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliasmavs99 View Post

Jeff,

Thanks for the heads up. That was just a temporary setup while I was waiting to get a new entertainment center. Here's how it turned out:

Before:


After:

Oh yeah, looking good there too!
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post #5711 of 6935 Old 12-24-2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliasmavs99 View Post

Jeff,

Thanks for the heads up. That was just a temporary setup while I was waiting to get a new entertainment center. Here's how it turned out:

]


Cool! Much better I can see what you are saying about a difficult room to work with though.

Enjoy,
Jeff
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post #5712 of 6935 Old 12-26-2011, 04:44 PM
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Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on floor stands for my new pair of Zona speakers?

TIA.
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post #5713 of 6935 Old 12-26-2011, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by entertainman View Post

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone had recommendations on floor stands for my new pair of Zona speakers?

TIA.

These stands work great:

http://www.oneclickmx.com/search.asp...d=VTI+BLE101B+

I have the Aperion Audio 4BPs mounted on them and the combo is quite sturdy.
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post #5714 of 6935 Old 12-28-2011, 07:17 AM
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Hey folks,

I'm looking at a 3.1 setup and have been considering Aperion Verus Grand/Forte for speakers to pair with a Rythmik sub.

I was sold on the Grand speakers, except the center is about an inch too tall for my application and cannot be used.

Would I be making a critical error pairing the Grand bookshelves with a Forte center?
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post #5715 of 6935 Old 12-28-2011, 01:42 PM
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Used Aperion's Live Chat to ask about pairing the Forte center with the Grand bookshelves. They actually say this is a very popular combo and should work well.

Overall system will be:

Verus Grand Bookshelves
Verus Forte center
Rythmik D15SE sub (using Zona wireless connection)
Onkyo HT-RC180 receiver

Now I just have to sit back and wait. The high gloss black Grand bookshelves were out of stock until Jan 5th.

Anxious to fire it all up and see how it sounds!
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post #5716 of 6935 Old 12-29-2011, 09:40 AM
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I just got a subwoofer (PSW505) and didn't really like the settings done automatically by Audyssey on my Onkyo 808. I set the crossover on the sub to 80 and the Verus Grand Center set to 80 as well, but the sound on the center speaker kind of sounds flat. Do you think making the crossover lower will help? Any other ideas to improve the sound.
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post #5717 of 6935 Old 12-29-2011, 12:40 PM
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What crossovers (for all speakers) were recommended when you ran Audyssey? What level did Audyssey read for your sub?

In any case, turn the crossover setting on the sub to the highest setting available.
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post #5718 of 6935 Old 12-29-2011, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post

What crossovers (for all speakers) were recommended when you ran Audyssey? What level did Audyssey read for your sub?

In any case, turn the crossover setting on the sub to the highest setting available.

I think they were referring to the Onkyo settings, not on the speaker/sub itself. 80 hz is usually a good ball park for Onkyo setting (you're right regarding the setting on the sub itself...highest setting to prevent bass drops).

Other tips...Might want to ensure the speaker is positioned well...tweeter height close to the same height as the mains/your ears. If it's above the display, make sure it's not back on a shelf and make sure it's pointed to listening position if possible. If new, give it a little burn-in time and ensure it's eating good food...i.e good source material .

****************
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post #5719 of 6935 Old 12-29-2011, 09:10 PM
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What are the recommended minimum and maximum distances the 5Ts should be placed apart from one another for music listening? Mine are 6' apart right now.
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post #5720 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by brandon_k_w View Post

What are the recommended minimum and maximum distances the 5Ts should be placed apart from one another for music listening? Mine are 6' apart right now.

That's is dependent on room/seating. The ideal set-up is the golden triangle...sweet spot needs to be slightly further from your mains than the distance between. So if you're 6' apart, if your seat is centered 6-8' from your speakers, you're "golden." Also need to be concerned with the depth...the 5Ts are front ported so you can position closer to the front walls, but you usually want the the speakers positioned at 1/3 of room depth, but can work with 1/5. The 1/3 rule works with the width spacing as well to help prevent bass nulls. A sub or two can change the set-up as well. I think the 5Ts will work with a foot or so from the front wall.

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post #5721 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post

I think they were referring to the Onkyo settings, not on the speaker/sub itself. 80 hz is usually a good ball park for Onkyo setting (you're right regarding the setting on the sub itself...highest setting to prevent bass drops).

Other tips...Might want to ensure the speaker is positioned well...tweeter height close to the same height as the mains/your ears. If it's above the display, make sure it's not back on a shelf and make sure it's pointed to listening position if possible. If new, give it a little burn-in time and ensure it's eating good food...i.e good source material .

Yes sorry I was referring to the Onkyo settings. I ran it again and the settings sound much better. The Onkyo crossover settings for sub (80hz), Verus Center(60hz), fronts (not aperion 60hz) and surrounds(not aperion 100hz). Is 60hz too low for the Aperion Verus?

Just for clarification does a lower crossover basically mean the speaker can handle lower frequencies, thus indicating its a large speaker?
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post #5722 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TheVillain9 View Post

Yes sorry I was referring to the Onkyo settings. I ran it again and the settings sound much better. The Onkyo crossover settings for sub (80hz), Verus Center(60hz), fronts (not aperion 60hz) and surrounds(not aperion 100hz). Is 60hz too low for the Aperion Verus?

Just for clarification does a lower crossover basically mean the speaker can handle lower frequencies, thus indicating its a large speaker?

Is that the Verus Grand center or is it the Verus Forte center?
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post #5723 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TheVillain9 View Post

Yes sorry I was referring to the Onkyo settings. I ran it again and the settings sound much better. The Onkyo crossover settings for sub (80hz), Verus Center(60hz), fronts (not aperion 60hz) and surrounds(not aperion 100hz). Is 60hz too low for the Aperion Verus?

Just for clarification does a lower crossover basically mean the speaker can handle lower frequencies, thus indicating its a large speaker?

A lower crossover means the speaker is capable of playing lower before rolling off. The large/small settings in your receiver really don't refer to speaker size, but whether you want bass-management (ie, whether you want the lower frequencies directed to your subwoofer.)

I would make the following changes and see how they sound to you: set all speakers to small. Raise your center and front crossovers to 80hz. Leave your surrounds at 100hz.

Raising the crossovers directs more bass to the sub and relieves the AVR of some of the load of driving the lower frequencies (assuming your sub is powered.)

I am not familiar with Onkyos, but I am confused as to the sub having a crossover there. If that is for the LFE, raise it to 120hz (or higher if allowed). LFE is a separate low-frequency channel for movie tracks, so you want all of that going to your sub or you will lose part of it. Again, on your sub itself, set the crossover frequency as high as it will go or bypass it entirely if that is an option, so that your AVR will be handling all the crossovers.
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post #5724 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 04:08 PM
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hi i have the intimus 5c, and 2 5t's. i purchased two monoprice in ceiling speakers that have good reviews and are much cheaper than aperion ic's. they are rated at 8ohm while my other speakers are rated at 6ohms. i can set my pioneer vsx1121 on either 6ohm or 8 ohm. i was wondering what i should set it at. im more inclined to do 6, since the big speakers have that. But im not sure if its better to go up or down on the resistance level, or since its so close together if it really matters.

btw, the intimus speakers are awesome. i upgraded from polk cs10 and monitor 30's and while i liked them, they gave me headaches and the aperions are way clearer than the others. im gonna add a emotiva xpa 3 for my fronts sooner or later. ive been hearing good things about it.
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post #5725 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVillain9 View Post

Yes sorry I was referring to the Onkyo settings. I ran it again and the settings sound much better. The Onkyo crossover settings for sub (80hz), Verus Center(60hz), fronts (not aperion 60hz) and surrounds(not aperion 100hz). Is 60hz too low for the Aperion Verus?

Just for clarification does a lower crossover basically mean the speaker can handle lower frequencies, thus indicating its a large speaker?

Addendum to my previous reply to this post:

Please ensure that the Audyssey reading for your sub is between -12dB and +12dB. If not, adjust the gain on your sub and re-run Audyssey. Repeat if necessary.

Once all this is done, don't forget that you will almost certainly have to adjust your DynEQ and DynVol settings on your receiver for each of your sources to reap the full benefits of Audyssey. I was quite disappointed with Audyssey until I realized this. The changes in sound that these adjustments made, particulary DynEQ, completely sold me on Audyssey.

YMMV, but I suggest giving it a solid trial. If you don't like the results, you can always turn Audyssey off and tweak your AVR manually.
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post #5726 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 08:30 PM
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What kind of adjustments are needed for DynEq or DynVol? I have a Denon 3311 & I turned off both DynEQ & DynVol as it feels too much muddy bass

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post #5727 of 6935 Old 12-30-2011, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jaymalya View Post

What kind of adjustments are needed for DynEq or DynVol? I have a Denon 3311 & I turned off both DynEQ & DynVol as it feels too much muddy bass

I have a Denon 1911 and a Denon 2112. If you have not already done so, I'd recommend you read Batpig's site which is excellent and contains several links regarding Audyssey. I'm sure you could also get plenty of expert help in the Denon 3311 thread in the Amps & Receivers section of this forum.

For DynEq, I'd suggest looking at this page of Audyssey's FAQ's. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page for settings for recommended settings for different material. Don't forget you can adjust these as needed to achieve the best results for your setup.

Here is one page from Audyssey's site which explains DynVol and the effects each has on the sound. I found the best way to pick a DynVol setting is simply to try each for a little while and see which sounds best.

In my setups I have found the recommended DynEQ offsets to be what I prefer. Your choice of DynVol settings will likely heavily depend upon how much large swings in volume bother you or the people in the other parts of your house. In one of my setups, I have it switched off on all sources. In the other, I have it set to "Day" (the "lightest" setting) for all sources.

Audyssey improved the sound of my living room setup tremendously. I'm certain I would not have been able to achieve a sound anywhere near as good without it. After that experience, when I put the 1911 in my bedroom and replaced my tiny speakers with the Aperions, I didn't even bother to try listening prior to running Audyssey. It also sounds terrific.
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post #5728 of 6935 Old 12-31-2011, 08:37 AM
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Thanks Tom. Indeed, batpig's site is excellent. I do read the other threads (audyssey, denon 3311 owner's forum etc). I don;t listen on very high volume usually, & with dyneq turned on, I don;t like the bass response. The same is not true when I listen on fairly decent volume ( like -15, -20 dB)

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post #5729 of 6935 Old 12-31-2011, 09:01 AM
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Has anyone gone from the Polk Monitor series to the Aperion 5T & 5C series?
I currently have Polk Monitor 60's w/ the 1C center and have a chance to purchase a set of used 5T's.

I have an Onkyo 807 to drive them with a Cadence XSUB.

Do you think this would be a worth while upgrade?
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post #5730 of 6935 Old 01-11-2012, 07:33 PM
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Since this thread has had no action this year....I thought I would just post to bump it up, and say "Happy New Year" to all my fellow Aperion Speaker Owners, and Aperion Audio Gurus.
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