*** The Official APERION Thread *** - Page 193 - AVS Forum
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post #5761 of 6974 Old 01-21-2012, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcoyne View Post

I cannot believe how good the Aperion VGT/VCT sounds with the SVS PB13Ultra. The cherry finish on the SVS is a bit different color wise, but if megathunderchief is still looking for a sub, can't say enough about the performance. I may try to gloss up the sub a bit to try to match the polish of the aperions if I get motivated. . .


This seems to be the prevailing sentiment I'm getting from people about the performance of the PB13- seems to be in a different class from the others. If I had my ideal room setup- basement, decent sized, dedicated rectangular room, there wouldn't be any question.

I've got a townhouse at the moment with an open floorplan on the ground floor, with a living room, dining room and kitchen sharing the same space. The PB13 looks pretty substantial, and I think the adjoining walls plus space restrictions may rule it out for the moment (but I am moving in about a year).

Therein lies the rub- just bought the 5.0 Aperion Verus Grand line and now I'm shopping for a sub. Do I go with an interim solution to fit the less than ideal floorplan I'm stuck with for the next year, or do I hold off and hope my next home can better accomodate my gear? I think I may already know the answer, because I can't bear to drop money on surround stands that eat up floorspace when I plan on wall-mounting eventually and complementing the rears to run 7.1/7.2

I hate waiting.
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post #5762 of 6974 Old 01-22-2012, 03:47 AM
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I say get the PB13 Ultra now. Even if you are moving in a year you can always tone down the Bass of the Ultra. Use Dynamic volume or Dolby volume. Since I purchased my Ultra they have gone up 200.00

"We can complain because rose bushes have thorns or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses". - Abraham Lincoln
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post #5763 of 6974 Old 01-22-2012, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megathunderchief View Post


This seems to be the prevailing sentiment I'm getting from people about the performance of the PB13- seems to be in a different class from the others. If I had my ideal room setup- basement, decent sized, dedicated rectangular room, there wouldn't be any question.

I've got a townhouse at the moment with an open floorplan on the ground floor, with a living room, dining room and kitchen sharing the same space. The PB13 looks pretty substantial, and I think the adjoining walls plus space restrictions may rule it out for the moment (but I am moving in about a year).

Therein lies the rub- just bought the 5.0 Aperion Verus Grand line and now I'm shopping for a sub. Do I go with an interim solution to fit the less than ideal floorplan I'm stuck with for the next year, or do I hold off and hope my next home can better accomodate my gear? I think I may already know the answer, because I can't bear to drop money on surround stands that eat up floorspace when I plan on wall-mounting eventually and complementing the rears to run 7.1/7.2

I hate waiting.

I just ordered the SB13 so once it arrives I'll let you how it sounds. The VGT'S provide me pretty solid bass right now- I'm running them without a sub. Like you I don't have the space for any of SBS's ported subs.
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post #5764 of 6974 Old 01-23-2012, 06:32 AM
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I set up my VGTs, VGC, and VGBs (as front presence) with my PC13 Ultra this weekend. I have 4 eMotiva ERD-1s as rear and side surrounds.

Mind you, the room isn't finished yet (ceilings are still opened to exposed insulation, and the floor is cement...almost no furnishings in the room). So, getting good sound would be nearly impossible.

I ran the automated set-up of my pre/pro (Yamaha RX-A3000) and then put on some music. After that, watched a bit of some Blu-Ray action movies.

Here's about the best thing I can say. The sub and speakers blended perfectly. The sub was absolutely lost in the room, and didn't do anything to call attention to itself. A few more weeks to go before the room is finished. Then it'll get a real test.

-Kevin
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post #5765 of 6974 Old 01-23-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Browninggold View Post

I say get the PB13 Ultra now. Even if you are moving in a year you can always tone down the Bass of the Ultra. Use Dynamic volume or Dolby volume. Since I purchased my Ultra they have gone up 200.00

+1. You can always turn it down. You can't really make it go to Eleven!!
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post #5766 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Ames View Post

I did some more reading in the Audyssey thread, and accidentally stumbled upon a post from someone whose crossovers on his mains (not Aperions) were being set higher than his specs indicated they should. He did some measurements (wish I understood more about them) and discovered that his listening position was in a null for one of his fronts. I wondered if this might also be my problem, so I moved my center as far back on my stand as possible. Lo and behold, Audyssey recommended a crossover of 120hz rather than 200hz.

I tested it at several other spots on the stand and always got 150-200hz from Audyssey. I wish I were able to push it a bit farther back or pull it out closer from where I originally had it, as I think I'd get a lower recommendation than 120hz from Audyssey if my space allowed me to do either. I'm convinced that my listening position is in a null for my room if the 5C is placed near the front of my stand. That may also explain the different readings Audyssey gave me on my 5T's after I moved them slightly. Interestingly enough, the polarity warning Audyssey repeatedly gave me for the 5C earlier was not given once after I began moving it around on the stand. Perhaps that was related to the null placement as well???

Anyhow, thanks for your feedback. I'll probably listen with the 5C crossed over at 120hz for a few days, then switch it to 80hz to see which I prefer. I just knew it shouldn't need to be crossed at 200hz, given the specs. Perhaps my experience will help someone else who runs into this issue.

Tom, if your Audissey runs are assuming that your 5C's are capable of 200hz then there's obviously a problem. Setting the speaker to 80hz does not fix the problem - it just masks it. This may be happening due to your environment/speaker location. I recommend playing with speaker placement until you get better results. I had similar issues, and when I raised the 5C to above my TV, Audissey set it to 80hz.
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post #5767 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Tom, if your Audissey runs are assuming that your 5C's are capable of 200hz then there's obviously a problem. Setting the speaker to 80hz does not fix the problem - it just masks it. This may be happening due to your environment/speaker location. I recommend playing with speaker placement until you get better results. I had similar issues, and when I raised the 5C to above my TV, Audissey set it to 80hz.

I had a similar problem with Audyssey and my Denon setting the xover for the 5C to 120Hz. I had it below my TV as well.

Never tried it above the TV - maybe that would help.
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post #5768 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Tom, if your Audissey runs are assuming that your 5C's are capable of 200hz then there's obviously a problem. Setting the speaker to 80hz does not fix the problem - it just masks it. This may be happening due to your environment/speaker location. I recommend playing with speaker placement until you get better results. I had similar issues, and when I raised the 5C to above my TV, Audissey set it to 80hz.

Thanks for the suggestion. The only real option I have for placement of the 5C is below the TV. Bringing the 5C to the front of the stand, Audyssey sets it to 200hz. Pushing it as far back as I can, results in a 120hz setting. At various positions in between, the settings are usually 150hz or 180hz. The problem with pushing it to the rear is that reflections from the stand really make clarity an issue.

I finally settled on pulling the 5C forward and living with the 200hz setting recommended from the Audyssey run. It sounds fine, and so far I've noticed no issues with voices or other sounds being diverted to the sub, so I can live with it. I'm pretty sure it is an issue with placement in my room and my main listening position, but I'm still surprised at the magnitude of the difference from what I expected. When the 5C is placed forward, Audyssey invariably reports a polarity error with it; but when placed farther back, Audyssey does not report that error as well as recommending a lower crossover. I'm guessing that somehow the error report is related to the crossover levels that Audyssey suggests at various positions for my 5C.

But it sounds fine as it is placed now, so I'm not unhappy with the 5C. I am extremely happy with my 5T's and my 4BP's.
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post #5769 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 07:11 PM
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No problem. Good luck in your journey.

I absolutely love my setup.

Front: 6T/4B
Center: 5C
Surr: 4BP

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post #5770 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 07:45 PM
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lou, I'll bet that does sound great. Looks good, too. Too bad you can't make the wires to the heights disappear.
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post #5771 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 08:50 PM
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Thanks. I never tried to hide em... too much work
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post #5772 of 6974 Old 01-26-2012, 09:01 PM
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You could run wire rails and paint them?!?
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post #5773 of 6974 Old 01-27-2012, 08:50 AM
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You could run wire rails and paint them?!?

Maybe when i get a house one day My apt is pretty industrial for now.
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post #5774 of 6974 Old 01-27-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by megathunderchief View Post

This seems to be the prevailing sentiment I'm getting from people about the performance of the PB13- seems to be in a different class from the others. If I had my ideal room setup- basement, decent sized, dedicated rectangular room, there wouldn't be any question.

I've got a townhouse at the moment with an open floorplan on the ground floor, with a living room, dining room and kitchen sharing the same space. The PB13 looks pretty substantial, and I think the adjoining walls plus space restrictions may rule it out for the moment (but I am moving in about a year).

Therein lies the rub- just bought the 5.0 Aperion Verus Grand line and now I'm shopping for a sub. Do I go with an interim solution to fit the less than ideal floorplan I'm stuck with for the next year, or do I hold off and hope my next home can better accomodate my gear? I think I may already know the answer, because I can't bear to drop money on surround stands that eat up floorspace when I plan on wall-mounting eventually and complementing the rears to run 7.1/7.2

I hate waiting.

My SB13 arrived yesterday. I must not be used to large subwoofers because when I saw the box for that thing walk through my front door I almost had a stroke. Its almost as big as the box my Panasonic 65VT30 came in. I guess I exaggerate a little, it is huge and really heavy. If size is an issue for you, I want to hear your reaction is you go ahead with the PB13. The sub sounds great by the way. Watched some Master and Commander and Die Hard 4 or 5 and was very impressed.
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post #5775 of 6974 Old 01-27-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

No problem. Good luck in your journey.

I absolutely love my setup.

Front: 6T/4B
Center: 5C
Surr: 4BP



Looking good, what do you think of the height channels?
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post #5776 of 6974 Old 01-28-2012, 06:53 AM
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Hey Jason,

I'm not entirely convinced with the heightz. Its a subtle effect. Perhaps my speaker positioning is poor, or maybe its due to the first generation heightz capable receivers (Onkyo 607) and its limited options for tweaking that channel. I dont know if the pro's outweigh the con's of being limited to Dolby PLII Heights at all times.

That said, I had two co-workers over to demo the setup and they were giddy like little boys once "Fast Five" came on...
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post #5777 of 6974 Old 01-30-2012, 07:39 AM
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Joining the family
Placed an order over the weekend for the following in gloss black:
2 VGT
1 VFC (waf problems with size/location of the VGC)
2 VGB for surrounds
3800 cf room, so I wanted the towers. Going to be running a n Onkyo 270 until can get the wife to approve an XPA-3.
Looking forward to the tracking numbers in email later on
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post #5778 of 6974 Old 01-30-2012, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Hey Jason,

I'm not entirely convinced with the heightz. Its a subtle effect. Perhaps my speaker positioning is poor, or maybe its due to the first generation heightz capable receivers (Onkyo 607) and its limited options for tweaking that channel. I dont know if the pro's outweigh the con's of being limited to Dolby PLII Heights at all times.


I researched a bit and found that I wasnt the only one unimpressed with the height channels

Quote:


couldn't hear any difference when we switched between Pro Logic IIz processing and standard Dolby Digital (which doesn't use the height speakers at all). Increasing the height speaker volume by three decibels didn't help, as we still couldn't hear the height speakers. At times it would seem like we were hearing sound from up above, but when we flipped back to standard Dolby Digital we heard the same effect from the traditional 5.1 set-up.

Our listening position was about 8 feet from the front speakers, so we stood up and moved much closer to the front speakers to hear the height speakers. Getting close confirmed that there was sound coming out of the speakers, but when we moved back to the couch the height speakers' sound faded away.

After contacting Dolby, we tried some recommended scenes, such as the rainy beginning of Ratatouille or the orchestral swells of Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, but we still didn't feel like the height channels were adding anything. Otherwise, both films sounded excellent, with tremendous detail resolution. After our listening session, our conclusion was that the extra two speakers would be better served in a traditional 7.1 arrangement, with surround back left/right speakers. The bottom line is we didn't feel that Dolby Pro Logic IIz processing added much to the value of the TX-SR607, and we wouldn't recommend people going through the hassle of setting up their home theatres in that arrangement.

CNETS review of the Onkyo 607.
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post #5779 of 6974 Old 01-30-2012, 05:33 PM
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Received my Versus Grand Center over the weekend. I was very suspect and half expected to be disappointed, but I have to admit that it sounds pretty good. It also surprisingly works very well with my fronts, which are old DCM Time Windows. So I guess I'm keeping it.

Now I have to decide whether to go for the towers and move the DCM Time Windows to the rear or whether to keep the DCMs in the front and go for the bookshelves for the rear (the dipoles would work aesthetically in my living room) which would cost one-third of the price of buying the towers.
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post #5780 of 6974 Old 01-31-2012, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Hey Jason,

I'm not entirely convinced with the heightz. Its a subtle effect. Perhaps my speaker positioning is poor, or maybe its due to the first generation heightz capable receivers (Onkyo 607) and its limited options for tweaking that channel. I dont know if the pro's outweigh the con's of being limited to Dolby PLII Heights at all times.

That said, I had two co-workers over to demo the setup and they were giddy like little boys once "Fast Five" came on...

You might try not angling them down. That should increase the height effect. You also might try turning them upside down (tweeter on the bottom). Actually both would be better.

Cheers
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post #5781 of 6974 Old 01-31-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysh View Post

Joining the family
Placed an order over the weekend for the following in gloss black:
2 VGT
1 VFC (waf problems with size/location of the VGC)
2 VGB for surrounds
3800 cf room, so I wanted the towers. Going to be running a n Onkyo 270 until can get the wife to approve an XPA-3.
Looking forward to the tracking numbers in email later on


Excellent, thanks for the order and please let us know what you think of them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Hey Jason,

I'm not entirely convinced with the heightz. Its a subtle effect. Perhaps my speaker positioning is poor, or maybe its due to the first generation heightz capable receivers (Onkyo 607) and its limited options for tweaking that channel. I dont know if the pro's outweigh the con's of being limited to Dolby PLII Heights at all times.

I researched a bit and found that I wasnt the only one unimpressed with the height channels

Quote:


couldn't hear any difference when we switched between Pro Logic IIz processing and standard Dolby Digital (which doesn't use the height speakers at all). Increasing the height speaker volume by three decibels didn't help, as we still couldn't hear the height speakers. At times it would seem like we were hearing sound from up above, but when we flipped back to standard Dolby Digital we heard the same effect from the traditional 5.1 set-up.

Our listening position was about 8 feet from the front speakers, so we stood up and moved much closer to the front speakers to hear the height speakers. Getting close confirmed that there was sound coming out of the speakers, but when we moved back to the couch the height speakers' sound faded away.

After contacting Dolby, we tried some recommended scenes, such as the rainy beginning of Ratatouille or the orchestral swells of Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, but we still didn't feel like the height channels were adding anything. Otherwise, both films sounded excellent, with tremendous detail resolution. After our listening session, our conclusion was that the extra two speakers would be better served in a traditional 7.1 arrangement, with surround back left/right speakers. The bottom line is we didn't feel that Dolby Pro Logic IIz processing added much to the value of the TX-SR607, and we wouldn't recommend people going through the hassle of setting up their home theatres in that arrangement.

CNETS review of the Onkyo 607.

Interesting, thanks for posting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Received my Versus Grand Center over the weekend. I was very suspect and half expected to be disappointed, but I have to admit that it sounds pretty good. It also surprisingly works very well with my fronts, which are old DCM Time Windows. So I guess I'm keeping it.

Now I have to decide whether to go for the towers and move the DCM Time Windows to the rear or whether to keep the DCMs in the front and go for the bookshelves for the rear (the dipoles would work aesthetically in my living room) which would cost one-third of the price of buying the towers.

It would be a shame to waste the Time Windows as rears, in my opinion, especially if they are blending well with Verus Grand Center. Get the dipoles if you do more movies and can wall mount them around 5-6 feet off the ground, or the bookshelves if you are going with stands or if you listen to a lot of multichannel music or concert DVD/BDs.

Here's a cool thread on Audioholics about the Time Windows, btw:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...e-windows.html

I hope that helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dynaudio View Post

You might try not angling them down. That should increase the height effect. You also might try turning them upside down (tweeter on the bottom). Actually both would be better.

Cheers

dyanaudio with the great advice as always
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post #5782 of 6974 Old 01-31-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by darksilkx View Post

My SB13 arrived yesterday. I must not be used to large subwoofers because when I saw the box for that thing walk through my front door I almost had a stroke. Its almost as big as the box my Panasonic 65VT30 came in. I guess I exaggerate a little, it is huge and really heavy. If size is an issue for you, I want to hear your reaction is you go ahead with the PB13. The sub sounds great by the way. Watched some Master and Commander and Die Hard 4 or 5 and was very impressed.


Glad the SB13 is doing the job. I think I'm on the fence between dual SB13s and a single Seaton SubMersive HP. The PB13 Ultra seems like it's just too much of a chunk for my space if I'm going with a single sub. I think either choice, dual or single, would be waaayyy more than adequate for any space I may eventually end up with wherever I move.
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post #5783 of 6974 Old 02-01-2012, 07:53 AM
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dyn - they are angled as down as they can go in the picture posted. Its' ok, overall I'm still happy with the setup.
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post #5784 of 6974 Old 02-01-2012, 11:00 AM
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dyn - they are angled as down as they can go in the picture posted. Its' ok, overall I'm still happy with the setup.

I said not angled down. You will miss some of the height effect if they are angled down.
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post #5785 of 6974 Old 02-01-2012, 11:11 AM
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Makes sense. They are angled down because I lost the hex screw on one of them. Ack. Should I point at an area above the listening position? Thanks so much.
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post #5786 of 6974 Old 02-02-2012, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by lou99 View Post

Makes sense. They are angled down because I lost the hex screw on one of them. Ack. Should I point at an area above the listening position? Thanks so much.

I would point them straight out as if they were up against a flat wall. If they are close to a ceiling boundary you might try the upside down suggestion as well.

cheers
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post #5787 of 6974 Old 02-02-2012, 09:41 AM
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Just got my full setup this week - VGT, VGC, VGBs (convinced the wife the January $300 discount was too good to pass up). Have them hooked to a Denon 2112ci and my sub is an eD A3-250. Family room is pretty small, but I wanted to go big in the event we upgrade the house in the next couple years. Majority will be for HT - can't wait to play with it all this weekend!
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post #5788 of 6974 Old 02-02-2012, 11:23 AM
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Just got my full setup this week - VGT, VGC, VGBs (convinced the wife the January $300 discount was too good to pass up). Have them hooked to a Denon 2112ci and my sub is an eD A3-250. Family room is pretty small, but I wanted to go big in the event we upgrade the house in the next couple years. Majority will be for HT - can't wait to play with it all this weekend!

You will love the VGT and VGC!!!! Not familiar with the VGB since I opted for the Verus Surrounds.

That VCG is HUGE!!!! I have nowhere to put it other than on a stand... sigh

The sound is utterly amazing!!!! For the first time ever I find myself jumping out of my seat while watching movies... lol
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post #5789 of 6974 Old 02-03-2012, 11:07 AM
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Hi Guys, I posted this in the main speaker section, but wasn't getting a lot of responses. Could anyone comment? Thank you.
I've been hanging around this board for a few weeks now, and have read a lot of reviews on these speakers. I have also called Aperion and spoken to a salesman (Great customer service by the way).

I have decided to go with a 2.1 system for now, and build over time. I will be using these for 90% music. Eventually I will be doing a 5.1 system, but that could be a while down the road. I am in an apt. at the moment, so it doesn't make much sense to build system for a house, with a room I've never seen. I figure I can always make use of the AVG boohselves down the road either as surrounds or with an additional pair for to complete the system.

For my current location though, I am going back and forth as to whether I need a sub. As I said, these will be mainly for music and I don't listen to any rap or techno. Mainly singer/songwriter stuff (Paul Simon, Amos Lee, the eagles, and some classic rock). Has anyone heard these speakers on their own and can comment on whether a sub would be needed. Keep in mind that with apt. living there would be a limit on how much I could crank up this sub without getting thrown out of my building.

Also, could anyone make a suggestion on the reciever. I am leaning toward a Denon 1912, but I want to make sure that's a solid pairing for now, as well as in the future house. Thanks!
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post #5790 of 6974 Old 02-03-2012, 11:22 AM
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As far as the sub goes....Nobody ever needs a sub. The question is if you want a sub. A bookshelf, no matter how good, can only do so much in the bass department.

I have 4 5B, and a 5C Aperions, paired with their first generation 12D sub. I like it very much.

If you are on the fence, get the bookshelves and see from there. You can always get a sub later.
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