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post #691 of 998 Old 01-14-2012, 09:51 PM
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It has two aluminum domes
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post #692 of 998 Old 01-16-2012, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by slots1 View Post

Just back from CES. Loved as usual the Thiel booth. I was so happy that Gary Dayton showed me the mock up of the new 3.7 matching center speaker. Not able to hear it, but it was beautiful and will work horizontally or vertically. They also had the new model 1.7.
Good to see Thiel live and well. No price yet on the new center.



WOW. ME LIKEY!!

Damn. Time to get a second MCS1 and relegate them for surround duties.
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post #693 of 998 Old 02-17-2012, 08:57 PM
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Still loving my Thiels, but I had a calibrator in today and he discovered something strange.

Currently I am using three 1.6's across the front, two PowerPlane 1.2's for the surrounds, and a SW1 sub. And the PX05 -- though it was configured for when I had 1.6s all around, so now I bass manage surround music in my processor, and just play two channel in full range.

So the PowerPlanes are new and it was time for a professional once over. (I needed floor space, so the 1.6s I had been using for surrounds got replaced.)

The integrator found that the PowerPlanes in room response dropped off pretty quickly below 120hz, even when the pre-pro crossover was set to 80 or 100hz.

So he tried to raise the crossover for my surround channels up to 120hz.

But the SW1 had a pretty fast drop off above 100hz in terms of in room response. (This is via the LFE input, coax, from the pre-pro.)

I realize that in room response can vary greatly from the specs.

But since the PowerPlanes are rated to get down to 70hz and the SS2 (essentially my SW1) is rated to go up past 200hz, I was surprised by this behavior in room.

Are there any high or low pass filters in the sub or the powerplanes that might be configured in a nonstandard way. Or perhaps there is another nuance I am not considering.

My suspicion, but I didn't have time to test it, is that even though there's no rational reason for the PX05 to do this, maybe it is....

Ideas?

(I've also got a msg in to Gary, who has been very helpful in the past in areas like this. But I'd love to get it sorted for this three day weekend.

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post #694 of 998 Old 02-17-2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Still loving my Thiels, but I had a calibrator in today and he discovered something strange.

Currently I am using three 1.6's across the front, two PowerPlane 1.2's for the surrounds, and a SW1 sub. And the PX05 -- though it was configured for when I had 1.6s all around, so now I bass manage surround music in my processor, and just play two channel in full range.

So the PowerPlanes are new and it was time for a professional once over. (I needed floor space, so the 1.6s I had been using for surrounds got replaced.)

The integrator found that the PowerPlanes in room response dropped off pretty quickly below 120hz, even when the pre-pro crossover was set to 80 or 100hz.

So he tried to raise the crossover for my surround channels up to 120hz.

But the SW1 had a pretty fast drop off above 100hz in terms of in room response. (This is via the LFE input, coax, from the pre-pro.)

I realize that in room response can vary greatly from the specs.

But since the PowerPlanes are rated to get down to 70hz and the SS2 (essentially my SW1) is rated to go up past 200hz, I was surprised by this behavior in room.

Are there any high or low pass filters in the sub or the powerplanes that might be configured in a nonstandard way. Or perhaps there is another nuance I am not considering.

My suspicion, but I didn't have time to test it, is that even though there's no rational reason for the PX05 to do this, maybe it is....

Ideas?

If you're now managing your surround crossover in your pre-pro, are you still using the PX05 for the surround signal and sending a "large" (full-range) signal to the PowerPlanes? (You shouldn't use both the PX05 and the pre-pro filters together.)

I doubt if there is something wrong with the PowerPlanes since they should not have any built-in filter to roll off the low-end response. You could hook up the PowerPlanes as 2-channel full-range stereo in place of your L&R 1.6s (with no sub and no PX05 or pre-pro filtering) to confirm that the PowerPlanes can produce sound below 100 Hz if the signal hasn't been filtered before it reaches the speakers.

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post #695 of 998 Old 02-17-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDL View Post


If you're now managing your surround crossover in your pre-pro, are you still using the PX05 for the surround signal and sending a "large" (full-range) signal to the PowerPlanes? (You shouldn't use both the PX05 and the pre-pro filters together.)

I doubt if there is something wrong with the PowerPlanes since they should not have any built-in filter to roll off the low-end response. You could hook up the PowerPlanes as 2-channel full-range stereo in place of your L&R 1.6s (with no sub and no PX05 or pre-pro filtering) to confirm that the PowerPlanes can produce sound below 100 Hz if the signal hasn't been filtered before it reaches the speakers.

SDL

Doh, good point, I should have done that (just run a signal with nothing up stream through the surrounds) while the calibrator was here!

----------------------------------------

I like the PX05 for when I bypass the pre pro, with an analog setup connected to the amp.

But I am also using bass mgmt in the pre pro when listening to digital surround sources. I didnt realize that was verboten. I never seemed to have a problem with it when I was using the 1.6's for surrounds.

But of course I have not had the px05 re-configured for the power planes as surrounds.... But I figured using bass management might make that unnecessary since I'm never sending a full range signal to them.

At the very least I should pull the px05 out of the chain for the surrounds I guess.

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post #696 of 998 Old 02-17-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I like the PX05 for when I bypass the pre pro, with an analog setup connected to the amp.

But I am also using bass mgmt in the pre pro when listening to digital surround sources. I didnt realize that was verboten. I never seemed to have a problem with it when I was using the 1.6's for surrounds.

But of course I have not had the px05 re-configured for the power planes as surrounds.... But I figured using bass management might make that unnecessary since I'm never sending a full range signal to them.

At the very least I should pull the px05 out of the chain for the surrounds I guess.

I would re-try it without the PX05 hooked up to the surrounds. From what I can understand from Thiel's explanation of the PX05 crossover, it uses a lowpass filter to send the subwoofer whatever low-bass signal can't be handled by the speaker when played at full range. This would mean that if the PX05 is configured for a larger speaker that produces lower bass, there would be a gap between the lowest freq the small speaker can reproduce and the highest freq sent to the sub.

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post #697 of 998 Old 02-18-2012, 06:24 AM
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Yes, I think I'll run an REW sweep before and after, and see.

I would think, since I replaced a more full range speaker with a more limited range speaker, the PX05 wouldn't roll off the signal higher than before. But maybe I'm not thinking about it right or there is something else going on.

In any event, reducing the number of variables, and doing some measurements, will help.

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post #698 of 998 Old 02-18-2012, 11:57 AM
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Well, I left the PX05 in, and it looks like the in room response from my layman's use of REW and a calibrated mic is not the same as what we were seeing yesterday....

Strange that there is no gap...
LL
LL

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post #699 of 998 Old 02-21-2012, 03:23 PM
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I have a pair of 1.6 in a very rare hard to find composite ebony with outriggers that i am moving out
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post #700 of 998 Old 02-21-2012, 03:27 PM
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I have a pair of 1.6 in a very rare hard to find composite ebony with outriggers that i am moving out


If you decide to sell the outriggers separately please pm me.

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post #701 of 998 Old 02-21-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Well, I left the PX05 in, and it looks like the in room response from my layman's use of REW and a calibrated mic is not the same as what we were seeing yesterday....

Strange that there is no gap...

That's very encouraging for listening, but I wonder why you were getting a different response the day before. Was there anything you changed in any other part of the system?

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post #702 of 998 Old 02-21-2012, 10:26 PM
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The only thing that changed was disconnecting the px05 from the surrounds AND the second day I was measuring it (calibrated mic, REW) whereas the first day the calibrator was measuring (super calibrated mic, TrueRTA).

Slightly too many variables to make a definitive statement.

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post #703 of 998 Old 02-22-2012, 01:27 PM
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If you decide to sell the outriggers separately please pm me.


I am selling them with the speakers...part of the deal i listed
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post #704 of 998 Old 02-29-2012, 06:45 PM
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I am looking for some advice and may have some dumb questions, but would really appreciate the help.

I ran across a really good deal on (4) Thiel PowerPlane 1.2 speakers. I already have the speakers for a surround sound setup in a HT without using these speakers for that. I am in the process of building a garage building with a finished space above. In the garage area, I am planning to install a projector and am thinking about installing the four Thiel speakers in this room (the room is 30' x 40' with 12' ceiling). I will use this primarily to watch sports when people are over and listen to music. Upstairs, I plan to setup more of a theater with surround sound. I would like to hook everything up through one receiver and I am looking at the Yamaha Aventage RX-2000. Will I be able to send video to my theater room TV and the projector as well as power all of the speakers with this one unit? Do I need an amp for the Thiel speakers or will this receiver work without an amp?

Again, any advice is appreciated as I am trying to learn as I go and make sure I make the right decisions as I am in the build process on the new building right now.
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post #705 of 998 Old 02-29-2012, 06:48 PM
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That's a big space for relatively small speakers, and you'll need a lot of power to fill the space with reference level sound -- perhaps beyond the capabilities of the speakers.

I think the acoustic treatments master thread will be a good place to provide the particulars of the size of the space, the specs of the speaker, and the receiver, and get some help with the math.

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post #706 of 998 Old 02-29-2012, 07:03 PM
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Done. Thanks Nathan
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post #707 of 998 Old 03-01-2012, 10:17 PM
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Just some notes:

Thiels are rated at 4ohms so make sure the AVR is rated for 4 ohm loads. THX approved receivers tend to do that. Alternatively, just get something like a MiniMC external amp from W4S. I use their bigger ICEbox to drive my Powerpoints. If I had to use a receiver, I'd look at something from Pioneer which also uses ICE inside.

Two, while the Powerpoints are "small" speakers, they actually don't sound small. I assume the PowerPlanes are the same since they share same drivers and similar (aluminium) construction. For best effect, get a Smartsub or maybe even two and the low end extension would be seamless.

Hope this helps.
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post #708 of 998 Old 03-09-2012, 07:41 AM
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scs4t ..how do they compare to the 1.6's that I am selling. I have a couple of offers so now the replacement search begins.
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post #709 of 998 Old 03-11-2012, 07:40 PM
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scs4t ..how do they compare to the 1.6's that I am selling. I have a couple of offers so now the replacement search begins.

Powerpoint against the 1.6s?

I don't see them necessarily as interchangeable.

Maybe more between the SCS4 and the PPs.

What you get with the PPs vs the 1.6s:
better phase coherency from the coaxial driver

What you lose with the PPs vs the 1.6s:
Better bass extension, which you can compensate somewhat by partnering the PPs with a USS/SS1/SS2
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post #710 of 998 Old 03-12-2012, 08:30 AM
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I've decided to sell the Thiel Powerplane 1.2's that I have. I have 4 total, but am willing to sell in sets of 2 each. These have only been used in an office environment, and are like brand new. If anyone is interested, please let me know.
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post #711 of 998 Old 03-14-2012, 07:14 PM
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another price increase on the CS2.4 on 4/1...up another $1000/pr, great, when I am ready to upgrade, I can probably sell for more than what I paid for them.
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post #712 of 998 Old 03-15-2012, 01:53 PM
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I am outta the club as someone came by and picked my 1.6's and outriggers....

gl to all
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post #713 of 998 Old 03-30-2012, 06:48 PM
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So!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
back to the original question posed in January ... CS3 fronts and CS2 surrounds in home theater / surround sound system ... CAN ANYONE RECCOMEND a good match for a center channel? Thiel centers are hard to find in the East "Bay", (obviously not Green or San Francisco ... hummm, what Bay could it be?) Currently considering B&W, Maggie, Martin Logan????? HELLLLLLP!!!!!!
Gracias!
Hit them straight!!
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post #714 of 998 Old 03-31-2012, 08:50 AM
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audiogon is your friend

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post #715 of 998 Old 03-31-2012, 06:28 PM
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Thank you Nathan, audiogon has been a friend for some time now.
Can you tell me what brand integrates well with Thiels? I need to replace the Focal 700 center channel currently in the lineup, not sure if Matin Logan or Bowers and Wilkins will work. Any ideas?
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post #716 of 998 Old 03-31-2012, 09:58 PM
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I went with a THIEL center and am glad I did.

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post #717 of 998 Old 04-01-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I went with a THIEL center and am glad I did.

So did I. If you want a center voiced like your L & R Thiels, get another Thiel.
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post #718 of 998 Old 04-01-2012, 11:20 AM
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I have been looking for an SCS1 and they are difficult to find and I am not in the mood to spend a few grand on a new or even pre loved Thiel center channel. The only other alternative, and I thought about a short while ago, is find a Dynaudio center speaker. My Thiels were built with Dynaudio tweeters and midranges, makes sense they will sound very similar!
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post #719 of 998 Old 04-01-2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogiedr View Post

I have been looking for an SCS1 and they are difficult to find and I am not in the mood to spend a few grand on a new or even pre loved Thiel center channel. The only other alternative, and I thought about a short while ago, is find a Dynaudio center speaker. My Thiels were built with Dynaudio tweeters and midranges, makes sense they will sound very similar!

I have a SCS in storage that I am thinking about selling on the gon. it's in OK shape, probably a 6-7 on the audiogon scale. Let me knowif you are interested. I think the going rate for these are $200-300 each.
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post #720 of 998 Old 04-02-2012, 03:51 PM
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Thank you Richard, let me research pricing and such and I'll get back to you.
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