Thiel Audio Owner's Thread - Page 33 - AVS Forum
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post #961 of 990 Old 04-29-2014, 01:58 PM
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I'm just wondering if the new generation of speakers will be able to retain the "Thiel Sound," viz., accuracy, transparency and that coherent capability. I built my own speakers in earlier years. I did the cabinets and stuffed them with JBL, Altec Lansing and Tannoy cones; however, when stereo came in, I gave up the DIY syndrome and switched to the AR line and kept them until I really retired for the second time. Then magic hit as I discovered the early Thiel 3.5s - - - the only infinite baffles that Thiel ever made in a floor-standing line. I kept them until I had replaced the mid-range drivers several times, then traded for the 2.7s with a SS2.2.

I've become addicted to that Thiel sound as being the most natural attainable for a stereo system, and I hope it will still be there for my grandchildren to appreciate some day.

Just the thoughts of an ancient geezer
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post #962 of 990 Old 04-29-2014, 04:03 PM
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No first order crossover. No metal drivers. Different tweeter. Think more PSB w/a whole new design team. That's where Mark Mason came from. Gary Dayton who worked very close to Jim Thiel is now w/Bryston. I went to a local dealer this week to check out an Okki Nokki RCM and he was the dealer that picked up Thiel after his competitor who had Thiel for 25 years dropped them. I walked in and no Thiels. I asked what happened and they said they dropped the line. Sold off the 3.7, 2.7 and 1.7 demos at close to 50% off. They were uncomfortable w/the direction of the company.smile.gif
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post #963 of 990 Old 05-03-2014, 09:14 PM
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So sorry to hear that. I have been a Thiel owner for over 14 years and have a 7.1 thiel system, the only not thiel is the mark seaton submersive sub.
I have the 3.7 as my left and right. When I went to the ces show over two years ago they were showing a prototype 3.7 center speaker, just the speaker box. I guess that will now never happen.
Love the sound
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post #964 of 990 Old 05-05-2014, 12:58 PM
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So Thiel has just uprooted its manufacturing and is moving it to Nashville, TN. Apparently, they're keeping the repair facility in Lexington, KY.

I know this because I've been talking to Lana regarding a situation with a new pair of 2.4SE I recently bought.



The coax drivers are on a truck somewhere and I won't be able to access another one for 2 weeks...
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post #965 of 990 Old 05-05-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class A View Post

No first order crossover. No metal drivers. Different tweeter. Think more PSB w/a whole new design team. That's where Mark Mason came from. Gary Dayton who worked very close to Jim Thiel is now w/Bryston. I went to a local dealer this week to check out an Okki Nokki RCM and he was the dealer that picked up Thiel after his competitor who had Thiel for 25 years dropped them. I walked in and no Thiels. I asked what happened and they said they dropped the line. Sold off the 3.7, 2.7 and 1.7 demos at close to 50% off. They were uncomfortable w/the direction of the company.smile.gif

Good to hear about Gary being with Bryston. What is his job there?
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post #966 of 990 Old 05-05-2014, 09:05 PM
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Since I run Bryston (BP-6, BDA-2, 4Bsst2, I'm interested, also
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post #967 of 990 Old 05-05-2014, 09:47 PM
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He's working as a product specialist. His main area is promoting the new line of Bryston speakers. The dealer I go to has a pair of the Model T's. They sound very good w/plenty of low end very tight bass. smile.gif
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post #968 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saffron_boots View Post

So Thiel has just uprooted its manufacturing and is moving it to Nashville, TN. Apparently, they're keeping the repair facility in Lexington, KY.

I know this because I've been talking to Lana regarding a situation with a new pair of 2.4SE I recently bought.



The coax drivers are on a truck somewhere and I won't be able to access another one for 2 weeks...

Wow that looks nasty.

I had the 2.4SE coax fail on me once during warranty but my dealer just got them to send me a replacement driver and they had one of my dealer's excellent service guys replace the driver in my home. The speaker was still working except there was some resonance when playing some violin/piano pieces.

I had the same fault later on with my 3.7 but as I was already in a different country, my dealer sent that driver to me in my new place and I just whipped out the soldering iron to replace it.
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post #969 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class A View Post

He's working as a product specialist. His main area is promoting the new line of Bryston speakers. The dealer I go to has a pair of the Model T's. They sound very good w/plenty of low end very tight bass. smile.gif

Since the new Thiel is not using Jim's ideas on speaker design, maybe Bryston could buy the old patents or use some of Jim's ideas in their speakers such as Jim's coaxial metal driver................................Yeah, just dreaming.
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post #970 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 08:19 AM
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I doubt it. If anyone wanted to use Jim Thiels designs I'm sure they are protected and owned by Thiel. A fee would be involved for authorized use. However the Brystons sound very good. Also the dealer replaced the Thiels w/the Totem Element series. They run in the same price range and are also worth a listen.smile.gif
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post #971 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 08:46 AM
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I heard Totem Rainmakers and they were exceptional at reaching into every corner of the room and making the speaker box disappear.  I'm a tower guy so I would need to hear they're towers.

 

I think Thiel's loyal customers should be auditioning Vandersteens.  They also sport first order crossovers, time+phase accurate, and they also went to enormous lengths engineering stiff midrange drivers.  Thiel's SCS3 has injected molded foam to keep the woofer from flexing and I recall Vandersteen saying he used balsa in his.

 

If you can afford the Quatro, it should be amazing.  If you can't I know someone in NJ selling a mint set of CS35s for $1k -- includes an extra scanspeak mid (NIB) and the EQ box.  I own these as well and they are so easy to love (unlike the CS36)

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post #972 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 09:04 AM
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The Elements are interesting in that they have no crossover. Also the entire speaker including the drivers are made in house. A completely different animal from the regular Totem line. I owned both Vandys and Thiels and they have a different sound even though they both sport First order crossover. I have moved on and now have Aerials. One thing I can say 3 brilliant speaker designers. All quality well built products. I terms of fit finish and customer service they all are outstanding.smile.gif
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post #973 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 10:57 AM
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Eric Alexander designed a fullrange+supertweeter (no xover) for Zu Audio called Druid and then went solo with his Tekton line.

I was shocked when I heard the $800 Tekton Lore-S.  I'm surprised there aren't more vendors applying this design.  Big props to Totem for investing in this direction.

 

I wonder if audio would be any fun if I weren't constrained by a budget.  With unlimited funds you could simply place your trust [and funds] in the best series from top tier brands and satisfaction is just about guaranteed within months.  A budget necessitates that you start small and experience the merits of each design principal as you buy your way up the upgrade ladder.  I'll eventually reach the finish line and I will arrive with more experience and appreciation.  Plus it's a great way to kill time.  Sadly the long road almost assures that I'll be spending more in the long run (even if I'm sourcing from used and chi-fi markets).  

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post #974 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 12:09 PM
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Never understood why Bryston and PMC speakers were always paired together.
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post #975 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 02:04 PM
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Jim Thiel liked Bryston w/his speakers. However he was not a big fan of McIntosh amps. smile.gif
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post #976 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 03:05 PM
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I agreed with Jim Thiel, as he put me onto the Bryston line shortly after I purchased a pair of the early 3.5s and wrote asking for recommended amplifiers. I'm now on my third 4B, as my son and grandson relieved me of the earlier two to drive their bookshelf Thiels.
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post #977 of 990 Old 05-06-2014, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slots1 View Post

So sorry to hear that. I have been a Thiel owner for over 14 years and have a 7.1 thiel system, the only not thiel is the mark seaton submersive sub.
I have the 3.7 as my left and right. When I went to the ces show over two years ago they were showing a prototype 3.7 center speaker, just the speaker box. I guess that will now never happen.
Love the sound

Nice. I am 7.2 with 7 Thiel Powerpoints ceiling mounted and 2 Submersive F2's

7.2 with Thiel Power Points, twin Seaton Submersive F2's in Espresso. Krell Showcase Amp, Marantz Pre-Pro, Richard Grey Power, Control 4 Home Automation, lots of Blue Jean Cables, Oppo 103D, Sony DVD 777 400 Disc Changer and Samsung Plasma 64" 8500 all in a Salamander Synergy 247 in Walnut.
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post #978 of 990 Old 05-07-2014, 07:28 AM
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11.2 full Thiel system - CS3.7, MCS1, SS2.2 x 2 with PowerPoint and PowerPoint 1.2s for height, wide, surround, surround back respectively.

I use the S1 Integrator for the SS2.2s and a JL f113 for movies.

I sure hope the drivers stay in good condition for years to come or I will have a huge pain changing out to another brand frown.gif
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post #979 of 990 Old 05-07-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I sure hope the drivers stay in good condition for years to come or I will have a huge pain changing out to another brand frown.gif

 

 

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Tim told me "don't worry, we have a large stock of those drivers, so if ever another woofer goes out we will be able to replace them for a long long time."

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post #980 of 990 Old 05-07-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

I had the 2.4SE coax fail on me once during warranty but my dealer just got them to send me a replacement driver and they had one of my dealer's excellent service guys replace the driver in my home. The speaker was still working except there was some resonance when playing some violin/piano pieces.

Why was there resonance? Is there an issue with just replacing a driver? I assumed that a tested/spec replacement would be indistinguishable from the original (which may be a moot point since I never heard it either). I've been dealing with the remaining Head of Service, Rob, on this issue. He's thoroughly embarrassed by this outcome, and is hoping to have a new driver built and sent to me within a couple of weeks. They still need to unload the trucks at the new repair space.
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post #981 of 990 Old 05-07-2014, 08:40 PM
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The resonance wasn't there initially. Maybe resonance is the wrong word to describe it but it sounded like a buzzing sound that only occurred when I played certain frequencies.

I played some test tones and it seemed like it only affected the midrange driver of the coax.

It was apparent when I played Chris Botti's Italia and some piano from Diana Krall's Live in Paris but wasn't noticeable for other pieces. I then swapped the L and R around but the problem persisted on the same speaker.
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post #982 of 990 Old 05-09-2014, 07:37 AM
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I know exactly what woof woof is talking about it.  It's a freq at the crossover point between the mid and tweet that evokes a staticky/spitty sound (think of a brass horn's mouthpiece that's not getting sufficient air).  I tolerated this for years through my CS36 on the right side.  And it's worse when the system is cold.  Curse those piano keys!  Then I got a pair of SCS3s that also have the metal tweet and I hear the same noise on the right.  That set off alarms right away and I started swapping the amp+pre.


I'm now using an integrated tube amp now and I did a test last night that did not exhibit the issue.  My test track for reproducing this is from Lorde's Pure Heroine -- try the first 30sec of Track #4 (Ribs).  The vocals of that opening chorus are in the exact freq where things fall apart.  After hearing that sound you'll be browsing audiogon for a fullrange crossover-less speaker design.


I'm convinced that the unforgiving nature of the metal tweeter plays a roll in this (a double edged sword), and I'm 75% certain that my 25yo hybrid solid state amp exacerbates this issue.

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post #983 of 990 Old 05-09-2014, 09:00 AM
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I got mine replaced by Thiel and the new driver doesn't exhibit this issue so I reckon it's a defect. Glad that Thiel honoured the warranty. Hope they still can do this for years to come.

I have been told some of the older PowerPoints' coax drivers were also prone to failure...
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post #984 of 990 Old 05-09-2014, 09:51 PM
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The "resonance" sound is what I would get on my mids after I burnt the voice coil -- probably scratches against the magnet.

 

Does a coax driver like that have two voice coils?

Did Thiel say if your issue was with the tweet or the mid?

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post #985 of 990 Old 05-10-2014, 01:29 AM
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They didn't say. They just replaced the full coax unit with a new one. The turnaround was quite fast so I think it was just a 1:1 replacement once they realised the first one was faulty.

I did send them recordings of the test tones I used and how they sounded.
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post #986 of 990 Old 05-10-2014, 04:00 PM
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Thiel HT with 3 MCS L/C/R behind an AT screen, 2 point point for rear and 2 power plane for surround (plus a pair of Epik Legend subwoofers). Plan is to expand with another set of PowerPoints for height or width (can run either or, or both with an additional amp). Still using my Onkyo TX-NR1010, but thinking separates may be in my future.

2-ch is Thiel CS2.4's with Mark Levinson and Eastern Electronic Avant pre amp, MHDT Havana Balanced and CEC TL1 transport, all connected with Cardas.

All-in-all, very happy with Thiel and unless they start to fall apart, I'll stick with them for many years to come. Love Magnepans as well (had a few pairs over the years), but I just don't have the room to make the justice.

"Suddenly the thought struck me, my floor is someone elses ceiling" - Nils Ferlin
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post #987 of 990 Old 08-01-2014, 10:09 AM
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Wow another new CEO at Thiel. The merry-go-round continues. Check out the July 31st story on Strata-gee.com. Lots of bobbing and weaving.
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post #988 of 990 Old 08-02-2014, 01:23 PM
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Great comments guys. IMO, I do not see Bryston becoming a dominate source for loudspeakers? I do like their power amps
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post #989 of 990 Old 08-03-2014, 11:58 AM
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Great comments guys. IMO, I do not see Bryston becoming a dominate source for loudspeakers? I do like their power amps
i'm with you on Bryston. The 4Bsst2 can drive any Thiel made
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post #990 of 990 Old 08-05-2014, 12:22 PM
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I see bankruptcy or change of ownership within the next 5yrs! That's like Tiger Woods saying he has mastered the game of golf, can't improve his game any further, and will now make his living from playing professional tennis.
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