Thiel Audio Owner's Thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1016 Old 08-23-2014, 05:18 PM
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What are your guys thoughts on the Thiel SCS4T? My local hi-fi shop has a brand new pair for $1,000, thinking about pulling the trigger. Would pair with a NAD 356BEE.
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post #992 of 1016 Old 08-25-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by traehekat View Post
What are your guys thoughts on the Thiel SCS4T? My local hi-fi shop has a brand new pair for $1,000, thinking about pulling the trigger. Would pair with a NAD 356BEE.
I use SCS4T's as the front left & right channels of my 7.2 system. I find their sound a little thin and would not use them full-range (i.e., without a subwoofer).
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post #993 of 1016 Old 08-25-2014, 01:02 PM
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Comments from the new CEO, interesting times lie ahead. Expect new product at CES, and I did not know they have stopped making speakers and are working their way through a bloated inventory. Explains some of the strange selections on Crutchfield. Apparently the SC4T is no more.








http://www.strata-gee.com/2014/07/31...mpelling-join/
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post #994 of 1016 Old 09-02-2014, 08:01 AM
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Great interview. Thanks! for sharing wgerman. Thiel can easily survive off of their current CS 2.7 and CS 3.7 loudspeakers. These models are outstanding and will suit even the most critical critic.
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post #995 of 1016 Old 09-02-2014, 08:03 AM
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As above, traehekat-
the model SCS4T is best mated w/ the ThielSmart SUB 2.2- Welcome!
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post #996 of 1016 Old 09-30-2014, 01:07 PM
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Looks like the new management is going after the 1%ers by placing ads in Worth magazine and will be at the Worth Wealth Summit at Greenwich this weekend giving away Thiel logo golf stuff and Olive and Sinclair Chocolate. Not a good ROI thing to do, IMHO. Wow, talk about company that is so out of touch with its own customers. Any Thiel owners read Worth magazine or even on their mailing list? Probably not. The CEO might be a 1%ers, but I doubt that majority of their customes are. Like I said before, bankruptcy or change ownership in 5yrs.

Last edited by richardyc; 09-30-2014 at 04:25 PM. Reason: no T-shirts, just golf stuff and chocolate.
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post #997 of 1016 Old 09-30-2014, 02:50 PM
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
Looks like the new management is going after the 1%ers by placing ads in Worth magazine and will be at the Worth Wealth Summit at Greenwich this weekend giving away Thiel T-shirts and golf stuff. Not a good ROI thing to do, IMHO. Wow, talk about company that is so out of touch with its own customers. Any Thiel owners read Worth magazine or even on their mailing list? Probably not. The CEO might be a 1%ers, but I doubt that majority of their customes are. Like I said before, bankruptcy or change ownership in 5yrs.
Also notice a New Logo. Another new CEO John Whittman. Check out the new ad on page 80 in this months Absolute Sound. 2015 will be the big kickoff to the new line. From what I heard the new line will be designed in America and built overseas. The new line up will have the same price range but w/the cheaper production costs which will generate a larger profit.
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post #998 of 1016 Old 09-30-2014, 07:29 PM
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Also notice a New Logo. Another new CEO John Whittman. Check out the new ad on page 80 in this months Absolute Sound. 2015 will be the big kickoff to the new line. From what I heard the new line will be designed in America and built overseas. The new line up will have the same price range but w/the cheaper production costs which will generate a larger profit.
It will be a sad thing if they do go that way. One of the greatest assets of Thiel has always been their capabilities in the areas of fabrication and manufacturing built up over years of investment in their people. I would have a hard time getting excited about buying a pair of Thiel speakers made in China. I prefer to give my money to companies who employ and invest in American workers. If we don't take care of our own, no one else will.
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post #999 of 1016 Old 10-07-2014, 03:57 PM
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Agreed Class A, Richard & Bradley- sad indeed.
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post #1000 of 1016 Old 10-19-2014, 02:29 PM
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Hello all,

I have just purchased a pair of CS 2.7s - ebony with outrigger stands. A beautiful sight to behold
They were the dealers demo pair which he says had about 40 hours on them.

I got them home and started listening. I immediately noticed better bass and stereo image.
Unfortunately I also noticed some 'unpleasantness' in the upper mid frequencies. It's an ear piercing distortion in some cases. Again - this is only certain frequencies. Electric guitars, violins, trumpets etc... I am not playing at high volumes.
I did not notice this when I auditioned the speakers in the dealers room - but the music he played was very sparse.

The speakers they replaced were 38y.o Yamaha NS-1000 Monitors. There rest of the system is Meridian Sooloos streaming with an MS600 endpoint/dac
Wyred4Sound STP SE preamp and Krell FPB-200 power amp.

Is it possible the speakers are still breaking in? Anyone else experience anything like this with their Thiel CS 2.7/3.7 speakers?

Many thanks
Mark

Last edited by markus46; 10-20-2014 at 01:14 PM.
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post #1001 of 1016 Old 10-19-2014, 05:18 PM
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Unfortunately I also noticed some 'unpleasantness' in the upper mid frequencies. It's an ear piercing distortion in some cases.
That doesn't sound good. Distortion doesn't occur during break-in. Is it possible your power amp is unhappy with the 4 ohm load?

EDIT: Oh wait, I just noticed you said Krell. Never mind.

Last edited by bweissman; 10-19-2014 at 05:22 PM.
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post #1002 of 1016 Old 10-19-2014, 05:47 PM
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I wouldn't have thought the Krell would be a problem
The manual says at least 200 hours at moderately loud levels. 300-400 hours to fully break in.

I guess my question is could the upper frequency harshness I'm hearing be attributable to the speakers not being broken in?
If there is a problem I want to let the dealer know ASAP. It could take many months for me to hit the 300 hour mark and I doubt I could return them after that long.

Cheers

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That doesn't sound good. Distortion doesn't occur during break-in. Is it possible your power amp is unhappy with the 4 ohm load?

EDIT: Oh wait, I just noticed you said Krell. Never mind.
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post #1003 of 1016 Old 10-20-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by markus46 View Post
Hello all,

I have just purchased a pair of CS 2.7s - ebony with outrigger stands. A beautiful sight to behold
They were the dealers demo pair which he says had about 40 hours on them.

I got them home and started listening. I immediately noticed better bass and stereo image.
Unfortunately I also noticed some 'unpleasantness' in the upper mid frequencies. It's an ear piercing distortion in some cases. Again - this is only certain frequencies. Electric guitars, violins, trumpets etc... I am not playing at high volumes.
I did not notice this when I auditioned the speakers in the dealers room - but the music he played was very sparse.

The speakers they replaced were 38y.o Yamaha NS-1000 Monitors. There rest of the system is Meridian Sooloos streaming with an MS600 endpoint/dac
Wyred4Sound STP SE preamp and Krell FPB-200 power amp.

Is it possible the speakers are still breaking in? Anyone else experience anything like this with their Thiel CS 2.7/3.7 speakers?

Many thanks
Mark
I ran my 2.7s for about 300 hours before they really"settled in." I'm driving them with a Bryston 4Bsst2 amplifier,using 12 gage cables. I usually have the 2.7s switched on, and at home-filling volume, for around five to six hours a day (I'm a widower and retired, and the neighbors don't care)

My SS2.2 took about four months to break in, as I didn't deliberately spend to much time playing SACDs or CDs with prominent low frequencies. My tastes are classical, viz., symphonies, concertos, operas, choral and organ.

IMO, the 2.7s are power hungry and need the clean watts that the Bryston (or similar) power amp can supply. BTW: I traded a early pair of 3.5s (infinite baffle) for the 2.7s, and have never looked back.

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post #1004 of 1016 Old 10-20-2014, 02:16 PM
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That's reassuring to hear - thanks

How would you characterise the sound you heard during early break-in vs what you hear now? Did you hear any harshness at all?

Cheers
Mark


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I ran my 2.7s for about 300 hours before they really"settled in." I'm driving them with a Bryston 4Bsst2 amplifier,using 12 gage cables. I usually have the 2.7s switched on, and at home-filling volume, for around five to six hours a day (I'm a widower and retired, and the neighbors don't care)

My SS2.2 took about four months to break in, as I didn't deliberately spend to much time playing SACDs or CDs with prominent low frequencies. My tastes are classical, viz., symphonies, concertos, operas, choral and organ.

IMO, the 2.7s are power hungry and need the clean watts that the Bryston (or similar) power amp can supply. BTW: I traded a early pair of 3.5s (infinite baffle) for the 2.7s, and have never looked back.

Old Fud
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post #1005 of 1016 Old 10-20-2014, 09:03 PM
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No, not harsh, It reminded me of the sound of my old ADS monitor speakers - - a little high bass heavy and a higher mid treble. A after about 100 hours, the mid and lower bass cleaned up, and and the sound gradually became linear and without any forward-sounding output in the mid tones and treble. I might not be saying this correctly, as I'm not used to the audiophile lingo for describing sound. All I can say is that at around the 300 hour point, the sound became linear from low bass to upper treble, without stressing any band of frequencies. One thing: Some speakers will "wear" on you after a couple of hours, the 2.7s do not. I can listen to them for hours at a stretch without becoming irritated. For me, the capability to enjoy protracted listening without becoming fatigued is the hallmark of an exceptional speaker.

I usually listen in the late evenings via my STAX Lambda Pro headphones , and I'd say that the sound of the 2.7s closely replicate the Lambda Pros from around the high 30 cps to the 12,000 - 15,000 range. My Pros go both higher and lower.

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post #1006 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 01:34 PM
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Thanks FUD,

I did some more experimenting last night. I couldn't find an instance where a single or even a pair of violins gave me any distortion.
I hear harshness when the mix gets 'busy' and reaches a crescendo - i.e. with massed violins.

I saw another post on Audiogon where congestion & distortion were mentioned. I guess from other information in the post that the 2.7's where not broken in.

So I'll let it go for a while and see how things turn out. Problem is my partner and I only do about 2 hours listening a week. It's gonna take quite a while to get to 100 hours

Cheers!

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No, not harsh, It reminded me of the sound of my old ADS monitor speakers - - a little high bass heavy and a higher mid treble. A after about 100 hours, the mid and lower bass cleaned up, and and the sound gradually became linear and without any forward-sounding output in the mid tones and treble. I might not be saying this correctly, as I'm not used to the audiophile lingo for describing sound. All I can say is that at around the 300 hour point, the sound became linear from low bass to upper treble, without stressing any band of frequencies. One thing: Some speakers will "wear" on you after a couple of hours, the 2.7s do not. I can listen to them for hours at a stretch without becoming irritated. For me, the capability to enjoy protracted listening without becoming fatigued is the hallmark of an exceptional speaker.

I usually listen in the late evenings via my STAX Lambda Pro headphones , and I'd say that the sound of the 2.7s closely replicate the Lambda Pros from around the high 30 cps to the 12,000 - 15,000 range. My Pros go both higher and lower.

Old Fud
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post #1007 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Thanks FUD,

I did some more experimenting last night. I couldn't find an instance where a single or even a pair of violins gave me any distortion.
I hear harshness when the mix gets 'busy' and reaches a crescendo - i.e. with massed violins.

I saw another post on Audiogon where congestion & distortion were mentioned. I guess from other information in the post that the 2.7's where not broken in.

So I'll let it go for a while and see how things turn out. Problem is my partner and I only do about 2 hours listening a week. It's gonna take quite a while to get to 100 hours

Cheers!
Well, if you're both out of the house on a regular basis, just crank up your CD player, put on a wide-range CD, set the player on repeat, turn up the volume a little and hit PLAY!

It works!

Cheers,

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post #1008 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM
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I did something similar with my 2.4s

I had a Logitech Squeezebox running - and used remote access to my pc when I was in the office to crank the volume up when my wife and I were out.

At home we used to watch Telly with the speakers for sound so that helped too.
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post #1009 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 04:20 PM
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I think it was Stereophile who put out a test CD many years ago with a track specifically intended to break in speakers. It wasn't music, it was a noisy mess of people banging on pots and pans, blowing whistles, etc.

The advice I remember from the old days is to wire one speaker with inverse polarity. Point the two speakers at each other a foot or 2 apart. Crank 'em up, set CD on repeat, and get out of there. The out-of-phase signal was supposed to help cancel the noise.

In any case, I seriously doubt "ear piercing distortion" is due to lack of break-in. I've broken in 10 Thiels in my life (no 2.7s, the closest being 2.2s) and never heard ear piercing distortion before, during, or after break-in. (I have blown some Thiel drivers, but that results in sudden silence in part of the audio band.)
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post #1010 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM
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That upper mid harshness is part of all newer Thiels with metal cones. The older models with Vifa and Seas drivers sounded much better.
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post #1011 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 07:14 PM
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Please tell me that goes away with break-in

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That upper mid harshness is part of all newer Thiels with metal cones. The older models with Vifa and Seas drivers sounded much better.
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post #1012 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 07:17 PM
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It doesn't go away. It's cone break-up. Having said that, I still enjoy the 2.4s for example.
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post #1013 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 07:25 PM
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I have the XLO/ REFERENCE RECORDINGS TEST & BURN-IN CD. There is a 15min burn-in track that sounds like a frequency sweep overlaid on top of white noise. I put blankets over the speakers and let it run on repeat while I am at home.

I don't want to have anything running while I'm not at home because I can't trust the bloody cat! I've already had to chase it away from the stereo when he's gone to investigate. I can't imagine what I'd do if he used my new 2.7s as a scratching post. I've mentioned 'lethal injection' several times but I don't think he understands

I've heard of the speakers facing each other out of phase trick and will probably do it. Just gotta get motivated...

The distortion at a certain frequency was ear piercing. It had me cringing in my chair and reaching for the remote to turn it down.
I played the same track again (last few minutes of Peter Gabriel's 'Signal to Noise' on his album 'Up') last night and it was perhaps a little better after a couple of hours of that burn-in track. Maybe...

Regards

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Originally Posted by bweissman View Post
I think it was Stereophile who put out a test CD many years ago with a track specifically intended to break in speakers. It wasn't music, it was a noisy mess of people banging on pots and pans, blowing whistles, etc.

The advice I remember from the old days is to wire one speaker with inverse polarity. Point the two speakers at each other a foot or 2 apart. Crank 'em up, set CD on repeat, and get out of there. The out-of-phase signal was supposed to help cancel the noise.

In any case, I seriously doubt "ear piercing distortion" is due to lack of break-in. I've broken in 10 Thiels in my life (no 2.7s, the closest being 2.2s) and never heard ear piercing distortion before, during, or after break-in. (I have blown some Thiel drivers, but that results in sudden silence in part of the audio band.)

Last edited by markus46; Yesterday at 07:29 PM.
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post #1014 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 07:35 PM
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Both speakers are making this noise? Cone break up is nasty, but not as drastic as you make it out to be. Maybe one of the drivers is bad?

Last edited by NagysAudio; Yesterday at 07:49 PM.
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post #1015 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 09:22 PM
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I don't want to have anything running while I'm not at home because I can't trust the bloody cat! I've already had to chase it away from the stereo when he's gone to investigate. I can't imagine what I'd do if he used my new 2.7s as a scratching post. I've mentioned 'lethal injection' several times but I don't think he understands
Whoa, flashback! Sorry, off topic alert!

Back circa 1995, my cat Nipper used my left front 2.2 as a climbing post. She put a claw neatly through the tweeter, punching a clean hole. I think it's that backward slope that makes the Thiel towers attractive to cats.

I phoned Thiel in Kentucky and they said (a) they would mail me a new tweeter at a reasonable price and (b) they were surprised I could hear the difference. (I forget who in Kentucky I talked to. If it wasn't Gary, it was before his time.) In any case, the guy on the phone thought the metal tweeter domes were rigid enough that a clean puncture would be inaudible. That turned out not to be the case, but soldering in a new tweeter was easy enough.

Anyway, markus46, why would the speaker be more attractive to the cat when it's playing sound than when it's not? I think the cat would rather avoid the sound and prefer to jump on a quiet speaker. Mine did.

Last edited by bweissman; Yesterday at 09:27 PM.
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post #1016 of 1016 Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM
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The only time I've seen the cat show any interest in the stereo is when the burn-in CD was playing. Obviously no one was listening nearby. It could be he thought while no one was around he'd check it out (I was in another room and saw him slink past). I've never seen him show any interest when no music is playing.

While I find the burn-in track deadly dull and repetitive, perhaps the cat likes it? Maybe I should play him some Status Quo?

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Whoa, flashback! Sorry, off topic alert!
<snip>
Anyway, markus46, why would the speaker be more attractive to the cat when it's playing sound than when it's not? I think the cat would rather avoid the sound and prefer to jump on a quiet speaker. Mine did.
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