Thiel Audio Owner's Thread - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 1240 Old 10-26-2014, 02:01 PM
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Coax distortion

Hi folks,

Just to update you on the 2.4SE issue with the coax: after 5 (FIVE!) different coaxes, I have a working pair of speakers that I have been enjoying for a few months now. Some audiophile friends were staggered by the revealing nature of the speaker. i.e. hearing things on recordings that they hadn't realised were there, even after 20+ years of becoming intimately familiar with them.

What I have learned, about the construction of these speakers, through the various trials and tribulations, is that the tolerances in the voice coil gap is so small, that any slight offset in the driver assembly will produce audible distortion as the coil physically rubs against the side.

Link: http://www.thielaudio.com/wp-content...highlights.jpg

This brings me to a point with marcus46's CS2.7 dilemma: clearly these drivers are hand-assembled with some jigs and fixtures. Is it possible that the same human error can occur in the 2.7/3.7 coax assembly? And that there is the possibility of him just having a bad driver in need of replacing?

Cheers,
Warren
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post #1022 of 1240 Old 10-27-2014, 01:17 PM
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Oh dear. Well that would be a major PITA.
I'll keep burning them in for a little while longer before I go down that particular route.

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
I heard the same distortion with my dealer’s pr of CS2.7 last May, I thought they were just not totally broken in yet. Maybe Thiel got a bad batch of drivers, as yours would be made around same time as the pr in my dealer. I didn’t ask the dealer about it, after I heard the CS3.7, I was not interested in the CS2.7.
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post #1023 of 1240 Old 11-08-2014, 10:40 AM
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Question

[QUOTE=markus46;28577929]Oh dear. Well that would be a major PITA.
I'll keep burning them in for a little while longer before I go down that particular route.

Hi Marcus,

Getting any better?
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post #1024 of 1240 Old 11-09-2014, 12:33 PM
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Hi Fud,

I probably have only put another 20 hours on them (I'm not long back from vacation) so now around the 60 hour mark and I have to say they are definitely improving. I had my son over and asked him for his thoughts and he couldn't hear any distortion that he didn't think was deliberate - i.e. close miked guitars on some Beatles songs.

My partner who originally described them as 'toppy' now thinks they have mellowed.

I had my Linn LP12 upgraded and spent a bit of time over the weekend listening to vinyl and had a thoroughly enjoyable time. The mid-upper frequency harshness is definitely greatly reduced

I'm a happy (well happier) man!

Cheers
Mark

[quote=Old Fud;28886842]
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus46 View Post
Oh dear. Well that would be a major PITA.
I'll keep burning them in for a little while longer before I go down that particular route.

Hi Marcus,

Getting any better?

Last edited by markus46; 11-09-2014 at 07:49 PM.
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post #1025 of 1240 Old 11-09-2014, 02:57 PM
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[quote=markus46;28908538]Hi Fud,

I probably have only put another 20 hours on them (I'm not long back from vacation) so now around the 60 hour mark and I have to say they are definitely improving. I had my son over and asked him for his thoughts and he couldn't hear any distortion that he didn't think was deliberate - i.e. closed miked guitars on some Beatles songs.

My partner who originally described them as 'toppy' now thinks they have mellowed.

I had my Linn LP12 upgraded and spent a bit of time over the weekend listening to vinyl and had a thoroughly enjoyable time. The mid-upper frequency harshness is definitely greatly reduced

I'm a happy (well happier) man!

Cheers
Mark

Mark,

Stay with it. It took several hundred hours for mine to really get "broken in." I'm more than satisfied at this juncture. I did put on CDs of organ music and set "repeat" before leaving the house. I'm doing the same for the SS2.2 Smart Sub.

One other suggestion: The 2.7s, like all of the floor-standing Thiels, are power hungry and have lower than nominal impedances at some frequencies.. Be sure your amplifier can put out clean watts when the impedance goes down to around 2 Ohms. (I'm driving mine with a Bryston 4BssT2)

Just give 'em time. They'll give you years of pleasure.

Fud
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post #1026 of 1240 Old 11-20-2014, 07:31 PM
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not sure when that happened, CS3.7 is now officially dead, it is in the discontinued models page.


http://www.thielaudio.com/products/discontinued-models/
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post #1027 of 1240 Old 11-23-2014, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
not sure when that happened, CS3.7 is now officially dead, it is in the discontinued models page.


http://www.thielaudio.com/products/discontinued-models/
They probably sold out their remaining inventory.
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post #1028 of 1240 Old 11-23-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
not sure when that happened, CS3.7 is now officially dead, it is in the discontinued models page.


http://www.thielaudio.com/products/discontinued-models/
The whole Thiel line has been dead for a year. New designer Mark Mason has been working on the new speakers for over a year. They will unveil them at the 2015 CES. They are nothing like the original Jim Thiel designs. I find it ironic that in this months TAS Jim Thiel was inducted in the audio Hall of Fame and the Thiel company congratulated the late Jim Thiel while scrapping all of his designs.
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post #1029 of 1240 Old 11-24-2014, 07:37 AM
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So the bass line in the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrowkilled my old Velodyne F1500 the other night, and one thing led to another, Iwon a SS1 on ebay and it is on its way to my house now…I should’ve donemore research before I bid on that thing, I didn’t know all Thiel subs don’t have abuilt in crossover. I guess I am in themarket for an used PX02 or PX05 at $500, that’s close to what I paid for thesub! I might get an active crossoverlike the Behringer CX2310for$80 and adjust the crossover point by ear. Does anyone know the PX02/05 crossover point for CS3.7? I doubt Thiel support will tell me that info.I hope this won’t be a downgrade from my F1500.
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post #1030 of 1240 Old 11-24-2014, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
So the bass line in the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrowkilled my old Velodyne F1500 the other night, and one thing led to another, Iwon a SS1 on ebay and it is on its way to my house now…I should’ve donemore research before I bid on that thing, I didn’t know all Thiel subs don’t have abuilt in crossover. I guess I am in themarket for an used PX02 or PX05 at $500, that’s close to what I paid for thesub! I might get an active crossoverlike the Behringer CX2310for$80 and adjust the crossover point by ear. Does anyone know the PX02/05 crossover point for CS3.7? I doubt Thiel support will tell me that info.I hope this won’t be a downgrade from my F1500.
You still might be able to get a PX05 wired for the 3.7 from Thiel. It's worth a try. I got mine for the 2.7. The PX02 is no longer available.
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post #1031 of 1240 Old 11-24-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fud View Post
You still might be able to get a PX05 wired for the 3.7 from Thiel. It's worth a try. I got mine for the 2.7. The PX02 is no longer available.
Just Checked: They have the PX05 in stock and for 3.7
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post #1032 of 1240 Old 11-24-2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fud View Post
Just Checked: They have the PX05 in stock and for 3.7


they do at $500 shipped from Crutchfield, a bit too steep for me, I ain't no 1%er. My local ex-Thiel dealer also has a PX02 demo for sale at ~$250, but it is set up for higherplane. Thiel will upgrade the PX02 from the HIgherplane1.2 to work with the CS3.7 for $60 each (not sure what they meant by 'each', each channel, so $120??, I didn't ask, as that's not the route I wanna go) plus shipping both ways, so by the time it's done it would be like $350+ for a passive crossover for only 2 channels. I will most likely go with the active crossover solution for $80. This is more around my price range.
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post #1033 of 1240 Old 11-25-2014, 02:34 PM
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I have some bad news. The SS2 I had was great for music. But when I was watching Source Code, I noticed the rattling was quite severe. Had to tune myS1 integrator to 25Hz to get rid of it.

Doubt you can get the S1 for 50 bucks. The Thiel subs aren't designed the same way as regular subs. You really should get the PX or S1. Read some of the reviews.
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post #1034 of 1240 Old 11-26-2014, 07:59 AM
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I have some bad news. The SS2 I had was great for music. But when I was watching Source Code, I noticed the rattling was quite severe. Had to tune myS1 integrator to 25Hz to get rid of it.

Doubt you can get the S1 for 50 bucks. The Thiel subs aren't designed the same way as regular subs. You really should get the PX or S1. Read some of the reviews.
I haven't noticed any rattling with my SS2.2; however, my setup is for two-channel classical music / organ only.
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post #1035 of 1240 Old 11-26-2014, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fud View Post
I haven't noticed any rattling with my SS2.2; however, my setup is for two-channel classical music / organ only.

I did say it was fine for music

But Source Code had a major explosion within the first 5 minutes that kept repeating.

I use a JL sub for movies now.

But have upgraded the SS2s to SS2.2s for music.
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post #1036 of 1240 Old 11-26-2014, 05:37 PM
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got the SS1 and the active crossover today. The Auto on feature doesn't seem to work, does it require the trigger cable for it to work?
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post #1037 of 1240 Old 12-02-2014, 04:28 PM
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the 3 new models that will come out early 2015.


TM3 MSRP $3498/pr
http://soundapproach.com/speakers/bo...ming-soon.html


TT1 $5798/pair...price mistake? this is supposed to replace CS3.7?
http://soundapproach.com/speakers/to...ming-soon.html


TC1 $2495 each
http://soundapproach.com/thiel-tc1-c...ing-soon.html?
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Multi order crossover. Ugh.
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post #1039 of 1240 Old 12-03-2014, 07:16 AM
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TT3 is new Thiel TOL

I think that the TT3 will be the replacement at the price level of the now discontinued 3.7. The TT1 comes in a little above the current 1.7 price. Will there be a TT2 to fill in where the 2.7 now sits? Haven't seen any mention yet. Subwoofers? I've heard they are planned but no pics or product announcements yet.

Glad I picked up a new pair of 3.7's earlier this year. The like of them won't be seen again any time soon.
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post #1040 of 1240 Old 12-03-2014, 12:15 PM
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Multi order crossover. Ugh.


The designer is from the school of 'more is better'. lol
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I think that the TT3 will be the replacement at the price level of the now discontinued 3.7. The TT1 comes in a little above the current 1.7 price. Will there be a TT2 to fill in where the 2.7 now sits? Haven't seen any mention yet. Subwoofers? I've heard they are planned but no pics or product announcements yet.

Glad I picked up a new pair of 3.7's earlier this year. The like of them won't be seen again any time soon.


oh yeah forgot about the TT3, but that is just 2 bigger woofers and a 4-5" midrange driver above the tweeter for $10k more. hmmm..No thank you!
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post #1042 of 1240 Old 12-08-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
I heard the same distortion with my dealer’s pr of CS2.7 last May, I thought they were just not totally broken in yet. Maybe Thiel got a bad batch of drivers, as yours would be made around same time as the pr in my dealer. I didn’t ask the dealer about it, after I heard the CS3.7, I was not interested in the CS2.7.
Folks, I need some advice. It sounds like there is some risk buying a new pair of these speakers sight unseen, but I have a chance to buy a demo pair or brand new pair. They will be pretty much the same price either way, because I am in Canada shipping cancels out any savings with the dealer demo.

I have personally inspected the CS2.7 demos at a US dealer about 4 hrs from my house and there was no distortion, no flaws at all. They would be boxed up and shipped via freight to my house (won't fit in the car). My other option is to order a brand new pair from Thiel - dealer says they still have some Amberwood and Satin Black left - and suffer the break-in torture.

Cost is not a factor and shipping damage is a risk either way. Which way would you go - demo or new?

The warranty is supposed to be 10 years but how long will Thiel stock spare parts?

"This one goes to eleven." Martin Logan Descent-i subwoofer

Last edited by AVfile; 12-08-2014 at 10:16 AM.
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post #1043 of 1240 Old 12-08-2014, 12:29 PM
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Honestly? I'd go the demo route. You get a known good pair with some amount of break-in already done. Ask the dealer to estimate the number of hours on them. You still may have some break-in to do...

As for warranty - I asked Thiel the same question. They responded "While it is true that THIEL will be introducing many new models beginning next year and thus our current product line will be discontinued, there are no changes to the 10 year warranty offered on our current product line.".

I know that statement doesn't help if there are no spare parts. I obviously no nothing about the stock of spares at Thiel. I'm not sure what the situation would be if our CS2.7's broke during the 10 year warranty period and they couldn't be repaired or replaced. I'm not too worried though - my last pair of speakers (Yamaha NS1000M) have worked flawlessly for 38 years!

Regards
Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
Folks, I need some advice. It sounds like there is some risk buying a new pair of these speakers sight unseen, but I have a chance to buy a demo pair or brand new pair. They will be pretty much the same price either way, because I am in Canada shipping cancels out any savings with the dealer demo.

I have personally inspected the CS2.7 demos at a US dealer about 4 hrs from my house and there was no distortion, no flaws at all. They would be boxed up and shipped via freight to my house (won't fit in the car). My other option is to order a brand new pair from Thiel - dealer says they still have some Amberwood and Satin Black left - and suffer the break-in torture.

Cost is not a factor and shipping damage is a risk either way. Which way would you go - demo or new?

The warranty is supposed to be 10 years but how long will Thiel stock spare parts?
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post #1044 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 06:54 AM
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Need help finding speaker wires with correct connectors for a pair of Thiel CS.5 floor speakers. I looked everywhere including the Thiel website, eBay, Amazon.com etc. and don't see any wires or connectors for sale. They seem to take a unique style with 2 thin threaded posts on the back of each speaker. Any help would be great, thanks, Bill
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post #1045 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post
Folks, I need some advice. It sounds like there is some risk buying a new pair of these speakers sight unseen, but I have a chance to buy a demo pair or brand new pair. They will be pretty much the same price either way, because I am in Canada shipping cancels out any savings with the dealer demo.

I have personally inspected the CS2.7 demos at a US dealer about 4 hrs from my house and there was no distortion, no flaws at all. They would be boxed up and shipped via freight to my house (won't fit in the car). My other option is to order a brand new pair from Thiel - dealer says they still have some Amberwood and Satin Black left - and suffer the break-in torture.

Cost is not a factor and shipping damage is a risk either way. Which way would you go - demo or new?

The warranty is supposed to be 10 years but how long will Thiel stock spare parts?
I have the 2.7s and am very pleased with the sound - - - once broken in. IMO, it takes around 200-300 hours, but then they're excellent speakers. One issue with the 2.7s: Their sensitivity is 87db, and they are rated @ 4 ohms, dipping to just over 2 ohms around 150 cps, so, you'll need a power amp that can cope with that. (I'm using a Bryston 4BssT2)

Just my t wo cents
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post #1046 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus46 View Post
I know that statement doesn't help if there are no spare parts. I obviously no nothing about the stock of spares at Thiel. I'm not sure what the situation would be if our CS2.7's broke during the 10 year warranty period and they couldn't be repaired or replaced.
I just asked Thiel about price and availability for CS2.7 parts and here is the answer:

The CS2.7 coax is a rebuild, the rebuild cost is $525.00 ea. plus shipping. The CS2.7 tweeter rebuild is $250.00 ea. plus shipping and the CS2.7 woofer is available new for $300.00 ea. plus shipping.

I think the biggest risk is that coax unit. If it blows and you can send it in for rebuild then the risk is mitigated in my mind, so long as the company stays in business. Down the road there may be an issue if you blow a woofer and they have no parts. It might be a good idea to buy a spare before that happens.
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post #1047 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 12:19 PM
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Have you got the nuts that screw down on the threaded posts? If so you have two options: Spades or bare wire.
If you don't have the nuts you'll have to source 2 pair. Take one speaker to a hi-fi store and see if they have some lying around.

I googled "Thiel CS.5 image picture" and came up with this...
http://ws.gzhifi.com/images/201001/1...5155775757.JPG

Good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decobill View Post
Need help finding speaker wires with correct connectors for a pair of Thiel CS.5 floor speakers. I looked everywhere including the Thiel website, eBay, Amazon.com etc. and don't see any wires or connectors for sale. They seem to take a unique style with 2 thin threaded posts on the back of each speaker. Any help would be great, thanks, Bill
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post #1048 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 02:19 PM
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Thanks for your response. I am clearly not an audiophile, but I have had many different types of speakers over the years. All of the ones I have had and still have use screw down nuts about twice as wide as the Thiel posts, so I assumed I needed a specific set of wires with properly fitting connectors. I may just have to find thinner screw on connectors if I can figure out what size I need and where to get them. I would hate to drag one of these heavy speakers to the store. Thanks again, Bill
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post #1049 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 03:37 PM
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Decobill, just phone Thiel at 855-878-1911 (Toll Free) or email them at service@thielaudio.com and ask them to send you a set of nuts.
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post #1050 of 1240 Old 12-09-2014, 11:38 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post
the 3 new models that will come out early 2015.


TM3 MSRP $3498/pr
http://soundapproach.com/speakers/bo...ming-soon.html


TT1 $5798/pair...price mistake? this is supposed to replace CS3.7?
http://soundapproach.com/speakers/to...ming-soon.html


TC1 $2495 each
http://soundapproach.com/thiel-tc1-c...ing-soon.html?

interesting .......not sure the sound of new thiel will become , it seems totally different driver nomatter tweeter or woofer and also the material not the same , hope the signature of jim thiel will stay and become even better !!!
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