Auditioned B&W Speakers--Conclusions? - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 438 Old 02-23-2007, 10:38 AM
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Magnum, I doubt such deep frequencies would cause the lens to vibrate via air. I'm pretty sure it's coming through the duct. Try taking it down and see if you get the problem. I think you're going to just have to build up the mounting point.

John
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post #422 of 438 Old 02-23-2007, 12:00 PM
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Magnum, instead or along with, the SACD of DSotM I would grab the bootleg DVD-A of it - sounds phenomenal IMO. There is a good thread in the multi-channel music subsection about it.

I like home, car, and headphone audio - each has its upsides. Personally the "best" (IOW, enjoyable to me) I've heard has been a car but I could care less about critical listening. Mind you the car had a ridiculous amount of work into it. I'm still waiting to be blown away by speakers (I've limited "hi-fi" experience here) but I've certainly found a pair of headphones that do it for me, Grado PS-1s. BUT overall I prefer to listen to regular old speakers - it's just more convenient.

I have sound equipment.
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post #423 of 438 Old 02-23-2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post



Meanwhile, it occurs to me if I had known I was going to end up putting all the front speakers on stands instead of the left and right speakers in the bookshelves, I would have ordered two pairs of tower PSB speakers instead of bookshelf B-15s.

Does your dealer offer a 30 day return/upgrade period?
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post #424 of 438 Old 02-23-2007, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jkhome View Post

Does your dealer offer a 30 day return/upgrade period?

I don't know. I ordered them from a dealer in Florida because the one in Cleveland refused to return my calls (plus they had the S50s on sale for 50% off, which is how I found them). I'm not sure the floorstanders would be an improvement, though. I'm getting flat response from 25 Hz - 20kHz now (as in less than +/- 2dB at 10 feet for the vast majority of it, so how much better than that I could achieve by using speakers that would only cause bass peaks in the room (the sub is ONLY flat in one spot/configuration in this room), well I really kind of have my doubts about it).

Nothing more can be done with the ceiling mount without seriously screwing up the ceiling there, IMO. I've got toggle bolts that I'll probably lose in the ceiling if I tried to totally remove the mount. I guess I'll just have to deal with it.
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post #425 of 438 Old 02-24-2007, 07:30 AM
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Sometimes bigger isn't always better, I went with Paradigm Studio 60s, instead of the 100s, and am getting plenty bass in my room, especially with a sub. I could see the total dynamic range and impact being improved with larger 100, although I would probably have to pull them further out in the room.

Also sometimes with larger speakers, the SPL has to be louder, in order to get that maximum performance (which would be bad in a smaller room).

I know it stinks for you to have that woulda/coulda/shoulda feeling, hopefully it will pass.
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post #426 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 02:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I can't complain about the movie performance, really. The surround field integrates almost perfectly and the white S50s work great on the side-walls (and look even better; everyone comments on how cool they look when they see them) and certainly the Panasonic PT-AX100U projector's picture is quite exceptional looking, even on the mere $200 Dalite Model B (with controlled return mechanism) matte white finish 93" screen. I can't imagine, though why they make their cases WHITE, though (black would have blended in with the bookshelves behind it much better; maybe they expect a white wall or ceiling mount?)

In any case, it's really just the music performance that gives me some pause. I'm pretty certain the 805s sounded WAY better in the mid-range (I guess they should for $2500 a pair) and given the exceptionally flat frequency repsonse I'm getting out of these PSB B15s, I can only assume it's some other parameter that's making the difference. I just can't help but wonder if I should have gone with the NHT Classic 3's instead (that's their top passive monitor, not their mid-range one) as they didn't really cost a whole lot more.


Oh well. I'm probably splitting hairs because I still have the Carver planar dedicated music only system upstairs to listen to CDs on and I think its midrange is superior to the 805s even. I'm planning on ordering a Sony 400 disc DVD/CD/SACD changer next (995 something model) and if I can get a long enough RCA cable, I'm going to run a set up through the corner/ceiling of the room to the upstairs system and a digital connection to the downstairs one and then I'll be able to listen to my CD collection on both systems at a push of a few buttons plus have SACD capability downstairs on the surround system and still probably be able to fit a sizable portion of my DVD collection in their as well for downstairs (I'd leave out CDs I never listen to and movies I hardly ever watch; 400 should be plenty for now). Then all I'll need is an OTA HDTV tuner to get Cleveland stations (since local cable only carries Pittsburgh HD stations) and eventually a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player (if/when it becomes clear which one I should buy as even a combo player doesn't solve the dual-software buying problem; although Warner's idea for a double-sided disc with one on each side might solve that; the trouble is getting the other studios to follow or pick ONE format).

Actually it'd be really easy to change out the speaker system except for the side surround speakers as the rest are all on stands. The side surrounds were and are the worst problem in that room since they have to go on the side walls with a limited amount of room and on the upper 1/3 of the wall due to seating proxmity.

I've actually been quite pleased with the 6-channel surround mode options on the Yamaha receiver as the one recliner sits BEHIND the side surround speakers and with the rear center engaged, surround comes from all over the place in that seat, which with side surrounds only would have been slightly odd with surround sounds coming in front of me there instead of the more typical side or rear locations. Actually, all 4 seats have a pretty good show and I could add a 2nd row in the back of the room if I really needed it, maybe on a slightly stepped up floor (stadium style), which I saw in one of the showrooms I visited before (can't go too high, though or the duct-mounted projector would start getting in the way as it's a good deal lower than the regular ceiling).
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post #427 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post

Oh well. I'm probably splitting hairs because I still have the Carver planar dedicated music only system upstairs to listen to CDs on and I think its midrange is superior to the 805s even. I'm planning on ordering a Sony 400 disc DVD/CD/SACD changer next (995 something model) and if I can get a long enough RCA cable, I'm going to run a set up through the corner/ceiling of the room to the upstairs system and a digital connection to the downstairs one and then I'll be able to listen to my CD collection on both systems at a push of a few buttons plus have SACD capability downstairs on the surround system and still probably be able to fit a sizable portion of my DVD collection in their as well for downstairs (I'd leave out CDs I never listen to and movies I hardly ever watch; 400 should be plenty for now).

Have you checked into the PC music server rave that's going on now? If not, I highly recommend you do so, as that may work out for you much better than a 400 disc player.

I use a 5 disc DVD/CD/SACD player for movies and SACD multichannel, but all my CDs are ripped (using Apple lossless) onto a PC hard drive. I use the SlimDevices Squeezebox, to play back the ripped music. Since it is buffered data, instead of "real time data reading", it is said to be much more accurate. What is the coolest is sitting in the easy chair, and scrolling through all those albums/ songs on the SB display, to play what ever I choose, at the push of a button. Definitely the future of audio! Plus I use the same program (Itunes) for my Ipod.

You can set the PC up anywhere in the house, and place the Squeezebox at your high end system (wired with Cat5 or wireless). Use the digital outs of the SB into something like the Benchmark or Lavry DAC, and get sound quality that some say rival much more expensive Audiophile CD players.

Of course the SB is not the only game in town, a few DAC manufacturers are now offering USB DACs, to be used with soundcards.
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post #428 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 08:00 AM
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I'd probably just get a Sonos ZP80 pack for $1000. Then you need no wires, have up to 5000 CD capability, full remote with 2-way interface and then just get yourself a nice single disc player for movies or multi-channel music.

John
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post #429 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 08:57 AM
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Kaliedescape or Escient, baby!

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #430 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 09:31 AM
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PSB B15s and Kaleidescape often go hand and hand

John
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post #431 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I'd probably just get a Sonos ZP80 pack for $1000. Then you need no wires, have up to 5000 CD capability, full remote with 2-way interface and then just get yourself a nice single disc player for movies or multi-channel music.

The Sonos looks interesting; it would be a nice upgrade from the SB.
http://stereophile.com/mediaservers/1006sonos

Since I already had a spare PC lying around, the Squeezebox was more cost efficient. The supplied remote is nothing like the Sonos, although since it is just IR, it can be programmed into a universal remote. For something anything close to the Sonos remote, one would have to use a wireless laptop, tied into the Slimserver address. (I have a small one, just for this purpose, but never use it.)
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post #432 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Is that Rhapsody service any good? It sounds like I can pretty much shove most of my CD collection into a closet and listen to almost ANY music I want to listen to on-the-fly for $10 a month. Are they missing major artists or have crappy sound quality or something? I see the Squeezebox is promoting to be used with their product. The Sonus system looks interesting because of that super remote, but I'd need at least two of the remotes. Sonus says Rhapsody service support requires a PC (seems SB can do it straight off the network, from what I read; given my PC is old and still running Win98SE, that's a boon as I'd need a new PC immediately otherwise).

In any case, that's a lot more to think about now. How easy is it to browse through music on the SB? The Sonus looks like it would be much easier to navigate huge collections of music. It can also use a network drive without a PC to play back music collections (not sure about SB there offhand).
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post #433 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 12:12 PM
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Rhapsody is kinda cool. If you buy Sonos, they let you try it for a month with no obligation of any kind. I didn't get into it because I have a ton of music. If you like XM or Sirius, it's at least that good and you can create your own "stations" by adding artists to your favorites. It's one of those things that you get into or you don't. It's hard to tell if anyone is missing really because there's so much stuff! They also don't seem to go by popularity that much on most channels, so much of the time, you're listening to stuff of which you've never heard. My major problem is that, like Sirius and XM, I couldn't find a decent progressive rock station or any other station that really matched my tastes.

That being said, Sonos just rocks. I have only a couple of minor ease of use issues with it, but the software upgradeability gives me hope that they will be resolved.

John
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post #434 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 02:08 PM
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Check out Pandora.c0m and look into the Music Genome project, it''l put you in touch with musicians and songs you never heard of that you love , all based on things you do know you like.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #435 of 438 Old 02-25-2007, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumX View Post

Is that Rhapsody service any good? It sounds like I can pretty much shove most of my CD collection into a closet and listen to almost ANY music I want to listen to on-the-fly for $10 a month.
In any case, that's a lot more to think about now. How easy is it to browse through music on the SB? The Sonus looks like it would be much easier to navigate huge collections of music. It can also use a network drive without a PC to play back music collections (not sure about SB there offhand).

I don't use Rhapsody, but do enjoy Internet Radio through the SB. Sound quality at best is MP3. If your system has high resolution, I certainly wouldn't pack your CDs away. If you rip them, you can go WAV files, with no compression, or some sort of lossless compression, for the best sound quality.

As far as browsing the music library, it isn't too bad; there are different ways to do it. Since it runs off the Slimserver program on the PC, you can also control it there. You can access Internet radio through the SB, but all your ripped music is stored on the hard drive of the PC. Here's a cheesy demo off the you-tube, plus some other links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfExBgofXtk
http://forums.slimdevices.com/
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/bbs.html
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=46.0
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post #436 of 438 Old 02-26-2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robonaut View Post

To me, it almost seems like they lke everything, whether it's the latest uber-speaker from Wilson Audio or some 25w tube amp hand-assembled by a couple of blokes in a small cottage in Wales.

There's so much good stuff out there to praise, why waste time running down the junk. That has been true of test reports on audio equipment since the 60's.
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post #437 of 438 Old 02-26-2007, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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MP3 quality, eh? Blech. With my high speed connection, real time uncompressed WAV could work just fine. Rhapsody should offer that as an option so I CAN put my CD collection away.
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post #438 of 438 Old 02-26-2007, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake Sm View Post

Check out Pandora.c0m and look into the Music Genome project, it''l put you in touch with musicians and songs you never heard of that you love , all based on things you do know you like.


VERY interesting site. nice one.
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