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post #481 of 503 Old 05-07-2014, 06:46 AM
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Hi,
I have an opportunity to purchase a pair of Canton Ergo 81 DC in nice condition. How well do these perform? Used mostly for music with some use in a bedroom 2.1 for movies.

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post #482 of 503 Old 05-07-2014, 08:02 AM
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Ho,
... How well do these perform? ..
from 1995-1997, were rated high-end entry level, with 19kg rather heavy, solid bass, 200W@4ohms, need powerfull amp to show their potential, a German dealer asks 350 EUR a pair at the moment...go listen yourself before purchase wink.gif
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post #483 of 503 Old 05-07-2014, 08:09 AM
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Thanks
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post #484 of 503 Old 05-10-2014, 03:10 PM
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Hey guys, I hate to say it but I put up my Cantons for sale on AVS just now. I just want to try something new and different. If I had a bigger space I would keep them but I already have my speakers for HT, so these have to go. It has been nice reading and conversing with the Canton crowd! Take care, Rob

Music Room: Marantz PM8004, Marantz SA8004, Audioquest ICs, Emotiva speaker cables, Quad 22L2, Pioneer DV610AUK universal player
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post #485 of 503 Old 06-11-2014, 04:40 AM
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Hi guys, I'm new to this forum and I'm glad I found it. I'm planning to start building my HT. I was thinking to go with Ventos 880.2 for LR, 858.2 for center and later on add the 830.2s for rears. I was wondering what kind of power amp will be suitable for this setup? I was thinking maybe Emotiva XPA- 5 or Outlaw 7500 with 200W per channel. I've been reading that Canton's need proper juice to sound good. Is that enough power or I need something bigger? For AV probably Marantz or Denon. Any suggestions/comments. I live in Las Vegas, USA and was wondering about any retailers stateside? I'd greatly appreciate your advices.
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post #486 of 503 Old 06-13-2014, 03:52 AM
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I'm planning to start building my HT. I was thinking to go with Ventos 880.2 for LR, 858.2 for center and later on add the 830.2s for rears.
If you plan on adding subwoofers (which you definitely should for a HT), I would skip on the 880s and get 4 830s plus the 858 or even 5 identical 830s. The 880s have smaller woofers and might not harmonize perfectly with the bigger ones in the center.

I had the opposite setup (820 as LR with 7in and 856 center with 6in woofers) and often noticed the difference in the front stage. Currently I run a phantom center (as I sit in a perfect stereo triangle) and it sounds better. If I could properly fit the 858, I would get that one.

If on the other hand you alo want to use the setup for stereo music listening and don't want to use the subwoofer(s) for that or never plan on getting subs, I would strongly recommend the 890 instead of the 880. The bass is much superior. But if you're getings subs, I really don't see any need for floorstanders.

Don't let the frequency response values in Canton's homepage fool you, even the bigger 890 only go down to about 48Hz (at -3db), that's not really good for HT use, so I would save the money, get the 830 instead and at least one (better two) decent 12in sub from SVS, Epic, XTZ etc..
I had the 820 running with an SVS SB12+ and it sounded great for movies AND music. Also try not to mix the series (.1 and .2) as the newer one uses different (ceramic) tweeters.
My ideal Canton front setup (if I currently had the money) would probably be the Ref9 as LR and the 858 as center (the Ref 50.2 is not really worth the upgrade imho).

Regarding the power required I think this is totally overrated. The bigger ones like Ref3 and up are really power hungry, but the Vento series, especially the 830s, will work perfectly with a decent 100W per channel AVR.
The aforementioned Ergo 81s for example have bigger woofers (200mm) and need a little more power... I'd say you'd benefit more from a cheaper amp and better Front, maybe even the Ref9 (e.g. the old series).

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post #487 of 503 Old 06-13-2014, 06:22 AM
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Sir, thank you for your response. You are bringing very good points.I read somewhere that the 830s sound like big speakers and you get a lot for your buck. I don't think I can afford the ref. 9.2 but I can get the 830s along with 858.2 . Also the Vento sub is pricy but like you said I can go with other brand. I'll be using the set up mostly for movies, games and of course music occasionally. I'm glad I don't need to buy separates and a high end receiver will do the job. Thanks again for your advice.
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If you plan on adding subwoofers (which you definitely should for a HT), I would skip on the 880s and get 4 830s plus the 858 or even 5 identical 830s. The 880s have smaller woofers and might not harmonize perfectly with the bigger ones in the center.

I had the opposite setup (820 as LR with 7in and 856 center with 6in woofers) and noften noticed the difference in the front stage. Currently I run a phantom center (as I sit in a perfect stereo triangle) and it sounds better. If I could properly fit the 858, I would get that one.

If on the other hand you alo want to use the setup for stereo music listening and don't want to use the subwoofer(s) for that or never plan on getting subs, I would strongly recommend the 890 instead of the 880. The bass is much superior. But if you're getings subs, I really don't see any need for floorstanders.

Don't let the frequency response values in Canton's homepage fool you, even the bigger 890 only go down to about 48Hz (at -3db), that's not really good for HT use, so I would save the money, get the 830 instead and at least one (better two) decent 12in sub from SVS, Epic, XTZ etc..
I had the 820 running with an SVS SB12+ and it sounded great for movies AND music. Also try not to mix the series (.1 and .2) as the newer one uses different (ceramic) tweeters.
My ideal Canton front setup (if I currently had the money) would probably be the Ref9 as LR and the 858 as center (the Ref 50.2 is not really worth the upgrade imho).

Regarding the power required I think this is totally overrated. The bigger ones like Ref3 and up are really power hungry, but the Vento series, especially the 830s, will work perfectly with a decent 100W per channel AVR.
The aforementioned Ergo 81s for example have bigger woofers (200mm) and need a little more power... I'd say you'd benefit more from a cheaper amp and better Front, maybe even the Ref9 (e.g. the old series).
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post #488 of 503 Old 06-14-2014, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyvelev View Post
Sir, thank you for your response. You are bringing very good points.I read somewhere that the 830s sound like big speakers and you get a lot for your buck. I don't think I can afford the ref. 9.2 but I can get the 830s along with 858.2 . Also the Vento sub is pricy but like you said I can go with other brand. I'll be using the set up mostly for movies, games and of course music occasionally. I'm glad I don't need to buy separates and a high end receiver will do the job. Thanks again for your advice.
Also, I was wondering whether the Reference 9.2s are that much better than Vento 830s, because they cost twice more? Thx.
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post #489 of 503 Old 06-14-2014, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyvelev View Post
Sir, thank you for your response. You are bringing very good points.I read somewhere that the 830s sound like big speakers and you get a lot for your buck. I don't think I can afford the ref. 9.2 but I can get the 830s along with 858.2 . Also the Vento sub is pricy but like you said I can go with other brand. I'll be using the set up mostly for movies, games and of course music occasionally. I'm glad I don't need to buy separates and a high end receiver will do the job. Thanks again for your advice.
Also, I was wondering whether the Reference 9.2s are that much better than Vento 830s, because they cost twice more? Thx.
The 830.2 (as the 820 before them) already sound very "big". They go down to around 60 Hz which may not be enough on their own, but together with a sub they're great. The Ref series is really expensive, so if anything, I would get the older series speakers, e.g. the Ref 9 DC. That one still uses the aluminum tweeters. I'd say you probably hear more of a difference between the different tweeters (so the series 1 and 2) than between the Vento and the Ref, but that's very subjective, you'd have to compare for yourself. The piano finish on the Ref is definitely a little better.
In Germany the Ref 9 DC in used but perfect condition goes for around 1300$ these days which is a little cheaper than the 830.2 new, so I'd be tempted to get the Refs, but you'd lose warranty etc. so you're not wrong in buying the 830.2.

Regarding the subs, the Vento sub is nice but insanely overpriced for what it offers (which imho is the case with almost every sub from a regular speaker series). I would go with a good american brand here or XTZ.
XTZ are also a good choice for speakers btw, as are a direct distributor. The woofers and tweeters they use are usually used in much more expensive speakers (e.g. the relatively inexpensive 99 series uses parts that are also used in the expensive MA Platinum speakers and similar). You could have a look at them but may find it hard to test them anywhere near you.
Another very good speaker in your price bracket might also be the KEF LS50. 5 of those would also make a sweet HT setup.
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post #490 of 503 Old 06-14-2014, 01:30 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm narrowing down my speaker search and Canton are on the short list, but it's hard to find good info about them. At roughly the same price, here are the Canton and non-Canton options I'm considering. Please rank them from best to worst, or give you opinions. I will be connecting them to a Yamaha rxv1075 and mostly listening to Vinyl. But also some CDs, movies and sports. Here's my shortlist:

Monitor Audio Silver 6
Canton GLE 490.2
Canton Karat 770DC
KEF Q900
Canton Chrono 509.2
Canton Ergo 607 DC
Monitor Audio Silver 8

For what it's worth, my wife prefers wood tone to shiny black/white, so all things being equal I'd lean that way. But, ultimately, my main consideration is sound....especially vinyl (everything from jazz to classical to old school funk to punk, metal and garage rock). I may want to add a centre channel later but for now going 2.0.

thanks.
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post #491 of 503 Old 06-16-2014, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Keasley View Post
Hey guys,
I'm narrowing down my speaker search and Canton are on the short list, but it's hard to find good info about them. At roughly the same price, here are the Canton and non-Canton options I'm considering. Please rank them from best to worst, or give you opinions. I will be connecting them to a Yamaha rxv1075 and mostly listening to Vinyl. But also some CDs, movies and sports.
Just my two cents below, but yould should definitley compare those speakers yourself as they can sound very different depending on the music you feed them.

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Monitor Audio Silver 6
Canton GLE 490.2
Canton Karat 770DC
KEF Q900
Canton Chrono 509.2
Canton Ergo 607 DC
Monitor Audio Silver 8
I'd rule out the GLE series as they are entry level speakers (you can hear it and the finish is subpar) and they cannot really compete with the others listed. The KEF and MA speakers imho sound warmer than Canton speakers, which might be a good thing for vinyl and rock/metal/punk music. Some people also find Canton to be a little annoying with Jazz and other music with higher frequencies (I don't).

I've listened to the MA RX8 and found it to be a little heavy on the bass ("warm") for my liking, but you may feel differently. It's definitely a nice speaker but due to the bass you'd have to give it same space in your room (i.e. not in the corner or cramped between furniture), otherwise the bass will probably overshadow everything else.
The smaller RX6 and the Canton Karat are somewhat lacking in the mids due to their smaller woofers and size. I'd always prefer more volume if your listening space is not too small.
I'd even go with bigger bookshelf speaker than a "flimsy" floorstander (if the WAF is not all-important).

Which bring us to the Kef Q900, which is a HUGE speaker and its looks reall underline that. I like it but you have to be able to accomodate it properly for it to sound well and not look totally out of place. I guess my wife wouldn't have let me get that one .
The Karat 770, though very slim, are also hard to place well in the room due to their sideways woofer and the problems you'll be getting in the bass (especially if corners are close).
I haven't listened to the Ergo series but its oldschool look never really appealed to me.

So from your selection I'd choose between the Q900, the MA RX8 and the Chrono 509.2 (or better an older/used Vento 890), pretty much based on subjective listening between them and my room situation. The Q900 would probably be my front runner in that comparison if you're not going up to a Chrono SL or Vento series with Canton.
Your AVR might be a little on the weak side for the Q900, but their efficency is very good (91dB I think) which should be enough even for loud sessions.
There are also quite a lot of other brands in that price bracket, to make your choices even harder , like ELAC with their totally different JET tweeters, the "bang-for-the-buck" XTZ 99 series, Dali Ikon 5/6/7, Cabasse with their great coax woofers, etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Keasley View Post
For what it's worth, my wife prefers wood tone to shiny black/white, so all things being equal I'd lean that way. But, ultimately, my main consideration is sound....especially vinyl (everything from jazz to classical to old school funk to punk, metal and garage rock). I may want to add a centre channel later but for now going 2.0.
Kef and MA should support vinyl and rock/metal music but after the initial impressions you may find the bass to be too heavy in the long run. That's why I went with my Canton Vento in the end. The wood finish on both the MA and the better Cantons (Chrono, Vento, Ref) is really good, no need to worry there. The Q900 might look closest to piece of wooden furniture, but its appearance is otherwise pretty overwhelming.
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post #492 of 503 Old 06-16-2014, 09:09 AM
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Some great advice here DefRay. It's really hard to find info and reviews for Canton gear in English. Ultimately, I'll A/B as many of these speakers as I can and choose the one that sounds best. But it's good to get the impressions of others as well.
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post #493 of 503 Old 06-22-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Keasley View Post
Hey guys,

I'm narrowing down my speaker search and Canton are on the short list, but it's hard to find good info about them. At roughly the same price, here are the Canton and non-Canton options I'm considering. Please rank them from best to worst, or give you opinions. I will be connecting them to a Yamaha rxv1075 and mostly listening to Vinyl. But also some CDs, movies and sports. Here's my shortlist:

Monitor Audio Silver 6
Canton GLE 490.2
Canton Karat 770DC
KEF Q900
Canton Chrono 509.2
Canton Ergo 607 DC
Monitor Audio Silver 8

For what it's worth, my wife prefers wood tone to shiny black/white, so all things being equal I'd lean that way. But, ultimately, my main consideration is sound....especially vinyl (everything from jazz to classical to old school funk to punk, metal and garage rock). I may want to add a centre channel later but for now going 2.0.

thanks.
Hi Keasley!

I can chime in here. Hope my information is not to late?

I have a pair of Canton Vento 830.2 and a pair of Canton's GLE 403's in my home as of right now. The GLE is what led me to purchase the Vento's.

Now the Vento's are absolutely a remarkable speakers and will give you countless hours of enjoyment. Mind you, the Vento's are in a two channel room and the GLE are in a home theater.

I drive the Vento's with Vincent preamp SA-T1, and Vincent power amp SP 331 MK. Both have tubes. I also use all copper cabling as well...no silver or silver over copper but Ohno Cast Copper..this is what lets the Vento as well as the Vincent sound natural without adding in fake highs to the sound....so its all a natural sound with great body all through the sound spectrum. Nothing rolled off. The Vincent/Vento presentation is a very dynamic and all the emotion of the music will be felt through the system. The Vento's are a very balanced speaker with a nice warm and rich/romantic midsection. Some one above said the Vento 830'2 will go down to 60 Hz...thats not true, the speakers in a two channel configuration can go down as low as 30, even tho the Canton web site says 27.

Before purchase of the Vento's I had a shoot out with the slightly more expensive Monitor audio's....the Monitor GX 100 which retailed at $2500. They where ear bleed with that ribbon tweeter. The Vento's trounced the Monitors. I suspect they will also trounce the KEF Q900 as well , seeing they trounced the KEF LS50's. I also have a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7's v3 which the Vento's also trounced as well as a pair of Klipsch towers. In-fact the only problem I find with the Vento as well as all of Canton speakers is no one knows about them,,,,at least here states side. My pair are in a very nice piano grade Cherry finish. I love them!

Hope this helps!
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post #494 of 503 Old 06-27-2014, 05:48 AM
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Some one above said the Vento 830'2 will go down to 60 Hz...thats not true, the speakers in a two channel configuration can go down as low as 30, even though the Canton web site says 27.
Sorry to be so blunt, but this is ********. Simple physics do not allow those kind of woofers to play that low.
A frequency graph in a magazine test of the older but technically equivalent 802 proves that the lower frequency limit (-3dB) is at 67 Hz which is also pretty much what I heard and also measured on my 820. The 830.2 has the same woofer and should be very comparable. Positioning in the room's corners might help with the bass but will also make it less uniform.
Even the big 890 has a lower limit of about 48 Hz.
You may have heard 30Hz but certainly not at the same volume as the higher frequencies...

Canton is often criticized for those "fake" frequency numbers on ther website (deliberately omitting the -3dB or -6dB point), which many other serious manufacturers DO provide.
But Canton, being one of Germany's most popular brands does this for marketing/better sales of course.

That being said, around 60Hz is plenty for most music (kick-bass etc. is around 80Hz and up), and any other manufacturer is limited in the same way (except maybe for electrically "active" speakers). But if one frequently listens to electronic bass or the lower notes on bass guitars (around 40 Hz), the 830.2 alone might be a little thin without a subwoofer helping out. Nothing can beat surface area for a woofer except more surface area. That's why I would refrain from buying the smaller speakers like 820.2 or 880.2 as the bass on them is even thinner due to smaller woofers. The Canton Ergo with their 8in woofers would be an alternative though...

The 830.2 are great speakers and well worth their money. I wouldn't say they trounce the MA GX100 and the like, you may simply find the different tweeter concept more appealing than a ribbon (or other) principle. E.g. I found the ELAC speakers (with their JET tweeter) very good and comparable (though different) to the Vento series. The same goes for the Kef LS50.
In the end it's up to the subjective perception of every individual.
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post #495 of 503 Old 06-27-2014, 06:26 AM
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Sorry to be so blunt, but this is ********. Simple physics do not allow those kind of woofers to play that low.
A frequency graph in a magazine test of the older but technically equivalent 802 proves that the lower frequency limit (-3dB) is at 67 Hz which is also pretty much what I heard and also measured on my 820. The 830.2 has the same woofer and should be very comparable. Positioning in the room's corners might help with the bass but will also make it less uniform.
Even the big 890 has a lower limit of about 48 Hz.
You may have heard 30Hz but certainly not at the same volume as the higher frequencies...

Canton is often criticized for those "fake" frequency numbers on ther website (deliberately omitting the -3dB or -6dB point), which many other serious manufacturers DO provide.
But Canton, being one of Germany's most popular brands does this for marketing/better sales of course.

That being said, around 60Hz is plenty for most music (kick-bass etc. is around 80Hz and up), and any other manufacturer is limited in the same way (except maybe for electrically "active" speakers). But if one frequently listens to electronic bass or the lower notes on bass guitars (around 40 Hz), the 830.2 alone might be a little thin without a subwoofer helping out. Nothing can beat surface area for a woofer except more surface area. That's why I would refrain from buying the smaller speakers like 820.2 or 880.2 as the bass on them is even thinner due to smaller woofers. The Canton Ergo with their 8in woofers would be an alternative though...

The 830.2 are great speakers and well worth their money. I wouldn't say they trounce the MA GX100 and the like, you may simply find the different tweeter concept more appealing than a ribbon (or other) principle. E.g. I found the ELAC speakers (with their JET tweeter) very good and comparable (though different) to the Vento series. The same goes for the Kef LS50.
In the end it's up to the subjective perception of every individual.

IF you'd notice my post, I said they didn't go as low as Canton said, but they go pretty low for a stand monitor. I have a youtube clip thats playing music. Simply go to youtube and type in Canton 830.2 and you will hear the bass. Its a poor recording and video as I recorded it all with a nexus 5 cell phone, but if you put on earphones you can cleary hear the bass on the 830.2's. And I can assure you, what you hear on those clips, I've played music that has even lower and deeper base than that.

Now you talk about physics...physics can allow it if the technology is there. The 820's are very much different from the 820.2's and very much different from the 830.2's. The 820's have the older tweeter as the 820.2 as well as the 830.2 have a tweeter upgrade from the Reference line, and had to be tweaked with the crossover and woofer to play correctly with the new tweeter. So the Vento 820 series is a different animal altogether.

As far as the ear test goes....You simply don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the bass of the later models of the Canton. I have been into audio for years, from the 70's, so I as well as my audio buddies have a very good ear and the Cantons are found to have very good staging, as well as 3D imaging. The dispertion is as wide as I've heard in a class such as these. Canton has unbelievable technology when it comes to the Vento series.

The Cantons I have are a good 3 feet from the back walls and a good 4-5 feet from the side wall so no corners. Read the reviews and you will find the bass is outstanding. Cantons, like all German speakers are clear, transparent and very accurate....they have a very nice midrange warmth and will let you hear all you gear upstream. IF you use junk amps, you will hear your junk amps.

And you are simply wrong as well as to saying all manufactures are limited in the same way. THere are plenty of monitors that can go low. The 830.2 needs no sub unless you are playing rap music with the subsonic bass, but other than that....you need no sub as the Canton bass is very powerful. I run mine with 150 watts as every one knows Cantons like power.

You're crazy.....there was 3 of us in the shoot out with the 830.2 and the Monitor Audio GX100. The Canton 830.2's trounced the Monitor in high infrequence response, warmth and control. The ribbon on the GX100 is ear bleed and we heard it with other amps as well with the same results. The bass on the GX100 was really bass heavy and the tweeter was really bright...if one uses a Monitor GX100, he had better use an amp the leans to the dark side as to balance out the sound of the Monitor GX100 a bit. The Cantons Vento series is simply in another class than the KEF LS50's and is really no comparison to what the 830'2 or even the smaller 820.2 as far as refinement.

Last edited by rantzmar; 06-28-2014 at 05:34 AM.
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post #496 of 503 Old 06-30-2014, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
IF you'd notice my post, I said they didn't go as low as Canton said, but they go pretty low for a stand monitor. I have a youtube clip thats playing music. Simply go to youtube and type in Canton 830.2 and you will hear the bass. Its a poor recording and video as I recorded it all with a nexus 5 cell phone, but if you put on earphones you can cleary hear the bass on the 830.2's. And I can assure you, what you hear on those clips, I've played music that has even lower and deeper base than that.
Well, good for you, but do you have anything substantial to back that up? Your claim is going aginst any serious measurement done so far...

The German "Audio" magazine measured the 802 at 67 Hz (-3dB): http://www.audio.de/produkte/canton-...02-348339.html
The guys from Absolute Sound measured the 820 at 53 Hz (-3dB): http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...eaker-tas-209/
This coincides pretty well with the measurements I did in my room.
Quite a while ago I posted other measurements in this very thread:
- Vento 890: 48hz
- Vento 870: 51hz
- Vento 880: 52hz
- Vento Reference 9/9.2: 48hz (impressive!)
- Vento Reference 3: 46hz

As you see, not even the big Ref 3 with its two(!) 9in woofers reaches anywhere near 30 Hz. That's what subwoofers are for after all.

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
Now you talk about physics...physics can allow it if the technology is there. The 820's are very much different from the 820.2's and very much different from the 830.2's. The 820's have the older tweeter as the 820.2 as well as the 830.2 have a tweeter upgrade from the Reference line, and had to be tweaked with the crossover and woofer to play correctly with the new tweeter. So the Vento 820 series is a different animal altogether.
The Vento 802, 820 and 830.2 are very similar regarding low frequencies. As you said yourself, the main changes have been to the tweeter and crossover, not the woofer.
The technology for those kind of low frequencies is NOT there of course, as the membrane surface area is simply too small.

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
As far as the ear test goes....You simply don't know what you are talking about when it comes to the bass of the later models of the Canton. I have been into audio for years, from the 70's, so I as well as my audio buddies have a very good ear and the Cantons are found to have very good staging, as well as 3D imaging. The dispertion is as wide as I've heard in a class such as these. Canton has unbelievable technology when it comes to the Vento series.
Oh really? How come you presume I don't know the later models? I listened to pretty much all the .2 series speakers as they are available at "every corner" around here in Germany.
The 830.2 sound VERY similar to the 820, espacially regarding the bass. The ceramic tweeter makes for a slight change in the higher frequencies but the midtones and bass are very similar.
That's why I didn't see the need for an upgrade. If anything I'd go for the Ref 9 instead ...

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
The Cantons I have are a good 3 feet from the back walls and a good 4-5 feet from the side wall so no corners. Read the reviews and you will find the bass is outstanding. Cantons, like all German speakers are clear, transparent and very accurate....they have a very nice midrange warmth and will let you hear all you gear upstream. IF you use junk amps, you will hear your junk amps.
As of today there hardly are any junk amps on the market, in regard to high fidelity (linear frequency response). The Cantons work perfectly with any well-constucted amp delivering enough power (no need for 200W or more). In my opinion adding a tube amp to an otherwise quite neutral speaker like the Canton more closely fits your statement of a "junk amp" and contradicts any notion of high fidelity. You could just use a warmer sounding speaker instead...

I also like Canton a lot, but there are many German brands delivering much more accurate sound and way more "outstanding" bass ... just in a different price bracket (like ME Geithain, Backes & Müller, etc.). Canton offers solid speakers for a competetive price, no more no less. If money was no object, I'd never look to Canton (not even the Ref 1.2 or 2.2) ...

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
And you are simply wrong as well as to saying all manufactures are limited in the same way. There are plenty of monitors that can go low. The 830.2 needs no sub unless you are playing rap music with the subsonic bass, but other than that....you need no sub as the Canton bass is very powerful. I run mine with 150 watts as every one knows Cantons like power.
Yes, there are (active!) monitors that can achieve that kind of bass by amplifying the lower frequencies, unlike passive speakers.
Saying you don't need a sub with the Cantons is a very wrong generalization.
If you listen to bass-heavy music or even just rock/metal and especially if the speakers are also used for movies, the 830.2 most definitely need a proper sub to cover the 20 - 60 Hz range.
For movie use I wouldn't even be content with the big 890.2 withut a sub.
Maybe you don't feel that way, but the objective measurements show otherwise and every Canton owner I know on the German boards would happily contradict you in that regard. The 830.2 are quite dwarfish in size compared to many full-range speakers out there. Where do you suppose that magical "deep bass" should come from? The 7in woofers? I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
You're crazy.....there was 3 of us in the shoot out with the 830.2 and the Monitor Audio GX100. The Canton 830.2's trounced the Monitor in high infrequence response, warmth and control. The ribbon on the GX100 is ear bleed and we heard it with other amps as well with the same results. The bass on the GX100 was really bass heavy and the tweeter was really bright...if one uses a Monitor GX100, he had better use an amp the leans to the dark side as to balance out the sound of the Monitor GX100 a bit. The Cantons Vento series is simply in another class than the KEF LS50's and is really no comparison to what the 830'2 or even the smaller 820.2 as far as refinement.
Well, I don't think I'm crazy. If I were you i'd look up the definition of "subjective", which explains why you find dome tweeters so much better than other forms like a ribbon. Plenty of people disagree with that opinion. I personally find the MA's ribbon quite pleasing while the ELAC JET tweeter sounded a little weird for my taste.
I'd never say that MA's or ELAC's speakers are rubbish though, they're just not my preference.

In my "crazy" opinion, the GX100, the Vento 830.2, the Kef LS50, as well as the Kef Q300, ELAC BS 403, Cabasse Minorca/Bora, and many more, are all very comparable speakers and definitely in the same "class".
Before you start freaking out again: I listened to all of the above speakers by the way and simply found the Cantons to be the best/most balanced package (but nowhere near trouncing all competition).
Other people (you obviously not) might feel differently as those impressions are entirely subjective and other people might actually like the sound that ribbons or coax woofers etc. produce.
So I'd encourage them to listen to as many contenders as possible before jumping to conclusions.

But I also wouldn't get people's hopes up by saying that compact speakers like the Canton 830.2 offer deep bass. That just silly and I, at least, would be very disappointed listening to my typical music (not rap ) or watching movies with just the 830.2s for all low frequency content. For music alone, the 890s might be enough (with a properly sized room), otherwise, and especially for movies, there's just no way around adding a sub in my opinion...

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post #497 of 503 Old 06-30-2014, 08:04 AM
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DefRaY....many of us care less about what a review or stats say. The proof is always in the hearing. But please don't get me wrong...im not talking about watching movies without a sub with Cantons. I use the 830.2's strictly in a 2 channel configuration and the bass is plenty and most people who come and listen can't believe the bottom end of the Canton's.

DefRay....you must understand. You cant just take a new tweeter and put it with the old woofers without tweaking the crossover. You must tweak the entire thing.

The Reference 9 is also a great speaker.

Your remarks:

" In my opinion adding a tube amp to an otherwise quite neutral speaker like the Canton more closely fits your statement of a "junk amp" and contradicts any notion of high fidelity."

I find that a odd statement by you..... Are you aware there are many flavors of tube amps? Not all of them are warm.....ever heard a ARC tube amp, or a Van Alstine tube amp? You are basically saying all tube amps with Canton are junk amps.

Also....in audio, there is always something better. Those ME Geithain, Backes & Müller are very attractive speakers..and no doubt they sound really great.

No one is arguing that Canton has the deepest bass....especially for movies. But I listen in a 2 channel configuration and for those needs, the bass can go really low for most audiophiles needs.

Elac are nice speakers...but for my taste and a few others who have tried the latest offerings from Monitor Audio...nothing but rubbish!

Between the the Vento 830.2, and the Kef LS50...the price class of the Vento and LS50 are different. And the Cantons offer more in refinement. Question....did you listen to the youtube clip with earphones of the Cantons I posted?

Have a great day!

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post #498 of 503 Old 07-02-2014, 10:14 AM
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Hi DefRay....I listen to 2 channel music with the 830.2's only. Listening to Maria Markensini now, and with all music I play I need no sub as the bass is outstanding. I have a dedicated 2 channel room. I have hybrid amp/preamp, turntable as well as a CDP. I have nice cables and speaker wire which both are pure cast copper...no silver in my cabling. I have some sound treatments and will be adding more as I continue to tweak my room.

Canton list this response at their site for the 830.2: 27...40.000 Hz. I dont know if they go down that low or not, but keep in mine, that was probably measured within 1-3 feet of the speakers. But this is what we do know and is factual.

20-40 Hz - Sub Bass
41-80 Hz - Low Bass
81-160 Hz - Mid Bass
161-320 Hz - Upper Bass

Now at 27 hz, that would shake the room! I've never felt the 830.2's shake the room. But we do know at low bass you can also feel it on your couch, and low bass you can feel it in you body. I can feel the 830.2's on my couch with certain music and can feel it in my body on numerous occasions. So I would say they can go into the low bass range and most definitely have outstanding mid bass range. Cantons are great speakers...and I know with the DC technology with less distortion in the lower ranges.....I would bet the floor standers are excellent into low bass as well as going into sub bass.
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post #499 of 503 Old 07-09-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
DefRaY....many of us care less about what a review or stats say. The proof is always in the hearing. But please don't get me wrong...im not talking about watching movies without a sub with Cantons. I use the 830.2's strictly in a 2 channel configuration and the bass is plenty and most people who come and listen can't believe the bottom end of the Canton's.
DefRay....you must understand. You cant just take a new tweeter and put it with the old woofers without tweaking the crossover. You must tweak the entire thing.
Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean. For most music the 830.2 will have plenty bass, no doubt about that. But there is a lot of low frequency content, be it in movies or bass-heavy music, that the Canton simply cannot reproduce at the same volume. Hence the internationally respected -3dB mark I mentioned.
Measurements don't lie. I did plenty of comparisions with my subs turned on and off and there is certainly a difference with the right content.

The 27Hz stated on the Canton website are nowhere near the same volume as the rest of the range, probably around -10dB or even lower. You may still be able to hear that, but it will never sound like it was intended, being played at the same volume as the rest of the frequencies in the music, while from about 55Hz upward it will.
I suspect that your room modes might amplify lower bass below what the Canton's can properly reproduce. I had the same problem and 4 different frequencies btw. and used a room correction suite (look at miniDSP or Dirac) to correct that. No I get very uniform bass without any noticable crossover from subs to front at all audible frequencies...

Be that as it may, I don't find tha 830 to be "thin" or lacking in bass at all. I think it's a great overall speaker but the bass shouldn't be overestimated.
The crossover between woofer and tweeter (being at 3000Hz) has nothing to do with the low frequency response of the woofer vs the higher frequencies. The woofer will still behave the same if the the rest of the speaker (like its dimensions and front geometry) hasn't changed.

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
Your remarks:
" In my opinion adding a tube amp to an otherwise quite neutral speaker like the Canton more closely fits your statement of a "junk amp" and contradicts any notion of high fidelity."

I find that a odd statement by you..... Are you aware there are many flavors of tube amps? Not all of them are warm.....ever heard a ARC tube amp, or a Van Alstine tube amp? You are basically saying all tube amps with Canton are junk amps.
I didn't say the Cantons are junk with tube amps. Just that
a) you don' need an expensive or powerful amp to properly drive the 830s, they will sound fine with any half-decent amp on the market
b) tube amps will never have the perfectly linear frequency response of transistor amps, that's a technological fact, but many people like that

There are many people favouring tube amps with "neutral" or "analytical" speakers like the Cantons, but it will change the reproduction of the musical content a little depending on the amps characteristics, as do "warmer" speakers etc.
If you like it, do it. I prefer the amp to simply amplify the content with as little influence as possible...
Then again, speakers from Backes&Müller, Geithain etc. are a lot better at that than Canton's, but there are many factors keeping me from getting those instead (mainly money and the WAF).

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Originally Posted by rantzmar View Post
Elac are nice speakers...but for my taste and a few others who have tried the latest offerings from Monitor Audio...nothing but rubbish!
Between the the Vento 830.2, and the Kef LS50...the price class of the Vento and LS50 are different. And the Cantons offer more in refinement. Question....did you listen to the youtube clip with earphones of the Cantons I posted?
I just find saying that Brand A or B is "rubbish" is too hard a statement and an unfair generalization. You could say you personally found them to sound inferior to Canton (which I also did), but they are certainly not bad speakers.
Regarding the LS50, around here in Germany they're about the same price as the Cantons, so are the other ones mentioned, so I'd put them in the same class and I also find them quite comparable.

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Have a great day!
You too! Let's just enjoy our Cantons
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post #500 of 503 Old 07-12-2014, 12:07 PM
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Hi,

I have read the last couple of pages to see if my question is answered elsewhere, and I found one exchange from last year but no definite answer.

So, I decided to upgrade my front speakers in my music+HT system and picked the Canton Chrono 507.2 simply based on reviews and a nice discount from an online store. What I did not know when I ordered the speakers (they are on backorder at the store so have not been delivered yet) is that the 4-8 ohm nominal impedance with the somewhat low sensitivity can be a problem in my setup. I have a Marantz SR7001 AVR, which I love but the back panel says the speakers should be above 6 ohms when one pair of front speakers (plus center plus surrounds) are connected. I just saw the impedance curve of the Chrono 507.2 on the net and it does go down to 4 in 2 places. The avr is 110 watts per channel for 8 ohms and I am really worried that either the Chronos will get damaged or the AVR will shut down in protective mode all the time. Has anyone got any experience with a similar setup? Should I cancel the order before the speakers get delivered?
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post #501 of 503 Old 07-14-2014, 03:39 AM
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stupidity of this industry

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Originally Posted by warp2600 View Post
... a Marantz SR7001 AVR, which I love but the back panel says the speakers should be above 6 ohms when one pair of front speakers (plus center plus surrounds) are connected....
hm, why not ask Marantz then what they think 6 ohms speakers would look like?
But even without asking Marantz - the amp will do just fine with the Cantons. These speakers do rather well behave in case of variance of ohm across the frequency band when compared to other brands.
To dig more into technical things i recommend to read http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calcula...gebridging.htm
Basically 4ohms, 6ohms, 8ohms rating are kind of a marketing and simplification blah that aim to guide you, its rather a defense line for the amp manufacturer to tell you a lower limit, on average with music or movies (e.g. no synthetic test sounds) the Chronos will behave lika a "6ohms speaker" setup. It is just a non standardised term speaker manufacturers may use without taking into account what the ohms curve really looks like. But Canton is more correct in saying these operate in the range from 4-8ohms, as you have figured out in the test graphs yourself.
You might loose sound quality with very heavy load but no technical risk. Since the amp didn't switch off before at the noise levels of your choice, i doub't it would do so with the Chronos, the difference should not be that big. So no need to worry on your side. In case the amp will reach its limits in surround setups just offload the very heavy sub stuff using an active sub....
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post #502 of 503 Old 07-14-2014, 05:03 AM
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Thanks for the reply.
In the meantime I did read the whole thread and I came to the conclusion I would probably have no problems driving the Chrono 507s with my Marantz. I also bought a quiet electric fan for cooling the AVR.
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post #503 of 503 Old 07-21-2014, 09:23 AM
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Hi guys,
I new to this forum and first time posting, let me tell my journey. I do have the Canton Vento 809's(she really are crazy for power never enough) , 807's and subwoofer 850. First drive with Emotiva UPA-1 monos and Emotiva USP-1 (good value for the money) sounds good, so I bought power amp Vincent SP-331 (worth every penny) the sound get so much better (2 channel) latter I used the Vincent for the highs and Emotiva monos for lowes on 809's and have even better(600watts for speaker), then Parasound C2 controller used (I no think can get better for +-$900 for 2 channel or home theater), lot of improvement on sound. In the meantime I bought Mcintosh C2200 Tube Preamplifier(gorgeous and heavy) the sound get better(no a lot but better) now I bought Mcintosh MC352 300watts for channel and now the sound are amazing(every type of music sound much better ). I wish I have the cash for another Mc352 so I drive on mono(809's can take no problem) and Mcintosh MC275 for Canton 807's.
Cd player Yamaha CD-S700
Turntable Technics SL1200
turntable PRO-JECT

I hope you guys enjoy and sorry for my english
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