Infinity Beta Owners - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2337 Old 12-19-2007, 09:06 PM
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As I believe it has been made clear to all, timbre matching the entire BETA set-up would be the best, but that is not an option, so you made an educated presumption that the next best choice would be to go with another Infinity product, in hope that it would somehow tie into your system better than that of one from another company.

It all sounds very reasonable to me.
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post #542 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 03:17 AM
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Thanks for your help. I am now seeing that the speaker will be delivered today. I will let you know how everything sounds when all hooked up.
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post #543 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exerciseguy View Post

As I believe it has been made clear to all, timbre matching the entire BETA set-up would be the best option, but that is not an option, so you made an educated presumption that the next best choice would be to go with another Infinity product, in hope that it would somehow tie into you system better than that of one from another company.

It all sounds very reasonable to me.

Agreed. I'm using Alpha 20s as surrounds in an Interlude system; and the timbre differences, especially on multi-channel music, are negligible. But in my case all the speakers share CMMD drivers.

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post #544 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 05:43 AM
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I have been cooresponding with the Infinity technical people. they all say the same as what I am hearing here. They also tell me that the difference will most probably not be noticable. Here is my last email from them....

There is no real performance difference between the Beta C250 and TSS 4000 Center regarding sound quality. They both sound very good. The TSS 400 may play a little louder due to the fact that it has twice as many drivers as the C250. However, the sum of the cone surface area of both speakers is almost identical. So in my opinion there is no real disadvantage of either application...they both will sound good and it seems as though space is really a factor in your application so the TSS 4000 Center is more than likely the best option which is a good one also....Don't forget, the TSS 4000 uses the same cone material for the midrange and tweeter as what is used in the Beta. To distortion is not a factor.

So maybe I made a good choice. I will find out shortly.....I just hooked up the speaker wire to my Sony reciever! Someone mentioned making an adjustment to the reciever settings to make this center sound better....can someone elaborate as to what I should do? Thanks to all.
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post #545 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perry563 View Post

The beta 250 center shows a frequency response of 55-20khz while the 4000center is 120-20,000khz.

Because the 4000 has an apparent -3dB point of 120Hz you should change the crossover setting for the center channel in your receiver to no lower than 120Hz. Doing this will eliminate a serious dip in audible performance below that frequency as compared to leaving the setting at 80Hz. If you left the setting at 80Hz for the center channel male voices and music in that range would sound very thin and anemic.

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post #546 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 08:27 AM
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So once I make this change the resulting issues with using this center over the beta series 250 center is eliminated? Anything else i need to alter? Thanks for the help.
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post #547 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perry563 View Post

So once I make this change the resulting issues with using this center over the beta series 250 center is eliminated? Anything else i need to alter? Thanks for the help.

Aside from the fact that they aren't from the same speaker family, yes. But you already know that based on your past posts and outstanding communication with Infinity's help desk. Offhand I can't think of anything else that would be a cause of concern. You already know that the soundfield across the front won't be completely seamless because of the speaker mismatch, but only you can decide whether or not it's annoying. I think you'll enjoy your system very much. Post pictures and how you've set your receiver if and when you can.

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post #548 of 2337 Old 12-20-2007, 10:02 PM
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Ok....its all set up. I have been playing with everything most of the day. Driving my family nuts. Here is what I did to make things sound the best..at least I THINK it sounds the best....

1) As recommended I changed the center channel frequency to 120hz.
2) Raised the base level +5.
3) Raised the center channel level +5.
4) The tricky part was trying to select the best surround mode...Before I hooked up the center speaker I had the reciever set to 2 channel (just had the left and right 50's). What I found though after I set up the center speaker was when I switched to the mode that just showed the left, center and right speakers the sound was poor. Once I switched to a Dolby 5.1 mode the sound depth greatly improved (I could hear the layers of instruments better). Can someone tell me why this would sound so good when I only have the three speakers set up? When I look on the Sony reciever screen it shows I am in a Dolby II* mode which is 5.1.........also a little diagram pops up on the reciever screen showing a 5.1 setup....center, left, right and two rear satillites. Funny thing is when I tried a 6.1 mode the sound became "muddy". Any ideas as to why?

Well...in terms of sound here is what I notice....

1) Vocals are more distinct and clear.
2) I hear the layers of sound......vocals from the center, drums left and right....some instruments coming from one side or another. As opposed to just having the 50's I feel the sound is better in most songs and much better with others with the added center.

Still bugs me that I could be experiencing better sound with a beta center so I am still debating if I should send this 4000 back and then buy a beta 250. I think I could fit the beta into my system if I got rid of my VCR and double stacked the cable box onto my reciever on the bottom shelf. Would be a tight fit however.

Anyway.....any thoughts about how I set up that center? Any further advise would be highly appreciated. I dont want to miss something that could improve the sound quality. The Sony reciever is so complicated and the instruction manual nearly useless. thanks, Perry.
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post #549 of 2337 Old 12-24-2007, 07:03 AM
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OK.....I now want to buy the Infinity SW12 500 watt subwoofer to further expand my system. Anyone see any issues with my system as currently set up? Right now I am only listening to music with this system but the long range goal is to have it set up for surround sound on my 46 inch Sharp LCD.

Also in terms of left, right and rear speakers....should I stay with the beta line or try to match the TSScenter4000 by buying speakers from that product group?
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post #550 of 2337 Old 12-24-2007, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perry563 View Post

OK.....I now want to buy the Infinity SW12 500 watt subwoofer to further expand my system. Anyone see any issues with my system as currently set up? Right now I am only listening to music with this system but the long range goal is to have it set up for surround sound on my 46 inch Sharp LCD.

Also in terms of left, right and rear speakers....should I stay with the beta line or try to match the TSScenter4000 by buying speakers from that product group?

Hi Perry. I've been enjoying your messages here. About 3 months ago, I updated my receiver and speakers, going with all Infinity Betas. I also purchased an SW12. I can speak to your first question. It isn't necessary to stay with Infinity for your SW. I like mine, but I wish I had spent more time at the Subwoofer forum here before making my purchase. If you go there, I think you'll find a couple of brands recommended above the SW12.

I have the R.A.B.O.S. kit, and have measured a low frequency drop off. My baseline was normal at 24Hz, and then dropped -2dB at 22Hz, -4dB at 21Hz and -6dB at 20Hz. What this means is that I'm not getting the 'feeling' of the sound waves below 20Hz. There are other SWs on the market that will out perform the SW 12 in this low frequency range. This is not as critical for music as it is for movies. It seems I've been told that the T-rex footsteps in 'Jurassic Park' go down to 6Hz whereas musical instruments can't produce that low of bass -- unless it's synthesized.

Just MHO, but something to consider.

As for the surround speakers, again, all I have are the Beta's and really can't venture an opinion about what would happened if you mixed and matched.

The Devil's in the Details
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post #551 of 2337 Old 12-24-2007, 04:17 PM
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Well......I would love to drive down to Bb or Circuit city on Wednesday and buy a great sub. (as opposed to buying online the Infinity Sub and waiting a week for delivery). Do either BB or CC sell a sub that is better than the Infinity? If so what are your recommendations? Thanks
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post #552 of 2337 Old 12-24-2007, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perry563 View Post

Well......I would love to drive down to Bb or Circuit city on Wednesday and buy a great sub. (as opposed to buying online the Infinity Sub and waiting a week for delivery). Do either BB or CC sell a sub that is better than the Infinity? If so what are your recommendations? Thanks

No, no, a thousand times NO! Qualified that if the BB has a Magnolia Store inside it, then they may have something equal. But before ordering that Infinity sub, take a look at

http://www.svsound.com/index.cfm
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/index.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/index.php?cPath=2_41

Any and all of these companies make quality subwoofers that will outperform virtually any store-bought, name-brand sub...and at a better price. Don't rush. Go for gold.

Greg

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post #553 of 2337 Old 12-25-2007, 05:00 AM
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What about Martin Logan? I am reading some good stuff about this brand.
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post #554 of 2337 Old 12-27-2007, 11:14 AM
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Here's a question for any of you beta owners that used to have RS5's:

Is the Beta 50 (or 40) a significant improvement over the RS5?
If not, has anyone regretted upgrading and preferred the RS5 over the Beta 50?

It's funny, I was just going to add Beta 20's rear speakers to my existing RS5 setup (other similar Infinity's for the center and surround speakers) when someone suggested I should try the Beta 20's as replacements for the RS5's because they might be better. Which made me think that the 50's would be much better. Given the current prices on them because of them being discontinued, and because there doesn't seem to be a replacement for them coming from Infinity, now I'm thinking that it seems like a good time to upgrade everything. Looks like these rear speakers are going to end up costing me a lot more than I expected.
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post #555 of 2337 Old 12-27-2007, 02:48 PM
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post #556 of 2337 Old 12-27-2007, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post

Here's a question for any of you beta owners that used to have RS5's:

Is the Beta 50 (or 40) a significant improvement over the RS5?
If not, has anyone regretted upgrading and preferred the RS5 over the Beta 50?

It's funny, I was just going to add Beta 20's rear speakers to my existing RS5 setup (other similar Infinity's for the center and surround speakers) when someone suggested I should try the Beta 20's as replacements for the RS5's because they might be better. Which made me think that the 50's would be much better.

The RS series used polypropylene drivers that also appeared in their high-end Overture line and possibly in their first Prelude line. I see substantial improvement over the years with CMMD drivers making a big contribution. As well as a world-class design staff. I would try the Beta 20s as mains to see how they sound before doing anything rash. If they are truly a big improvement over your RS5s then you might consider an entire Beta upgrade. Most who do, smile.

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post #557 of 2337 Old 12-28-2007, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post

Here's a question for any of you beta owners that used to have RS5's:

Is the Beta 50 (or 40) a significant improvement over the RS5?
If not, has anyone regretted upgrading and preferred the RS5 over the Beta 50?

It's funny, I was just going to add Beta 20's rear speakers to my existing RS5 setup (other similar Infinity's for the center and surround speakers) when someone suggested I should try the Beta 20's as replacements for the RS5's because they might be better. Which made me think that the 50's would be much better. Given the current prices on them because of them being discontinued, and because there doesn't seem to be a replacement for them coming from Infinity, now I'm thinking that it seems like a good time to upgrade everything. Looks like these rear speakers are going to end up costing me a lot more than I expected.

I recently went from an RS5 setup (RS5's, CC3, RS2's,Bu-120 sub) to a Beta 50 setup (Beta 50's, C360, ES250's, CSW-10) and don't regret it for a second! I always loved the way my RS speakers sounded, but as GLBright said, I smile every time hear my new Betas!

To my ears, everything sounds crisper, clearer, more detailed, and more realistic. I've been watching some of my more well-used DVD's whose sound I'd heard repeatedly through the RS's. With the Betas, I hear instruments more distinctly, and hear details that I'd never heard before. For example, voices in the background in certain scenes were just background mumbles with the RS's but with the Betas, I can actually make out what they're saying, even when the main characters are talking in the foreground! I'm simply amazed every time I watch a movie. I've done less testing with music CDs, but there too, the music sounds cleaner, clearer and more natural.

In short, I'd now rate the RS's as very good speakers, but the Betas are excellent! If you upgrade to Beta's all around you simply won't regret it.

Aloha
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post #558 of 2337 Old 12-28-2007, 11:42 AM
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Damn, there goes more money.

Guess I'm upgrading everything. The regular speakers are an easy choice now, but the sub is another question. I figure I might as well go for one that handles really low frequencies, which seems to be the weak point of the Infinity BU2 that I have now, and the current Infinity subs don't thrill me. Off to the sub forum...
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post #559 of 2337 Old 12-28-2007, 02:46 PM
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Hi - Please forgive me if for jumping on this thread. I placed the below questions on the Speaker forum then thought since you guys are the Beta experts I may get more advice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking at new speakers and am thiking about either the Infinity Beta 40 or 50. I do have some questions:

Can someone compare the two? I have read many reviews about the 50 - not so many on the 40's.

Can an Onkyo sr505 (was fortuneate yesterday and got one cheap, more money for speakers) with 75 watts drive the 40 and 50? I did read on this thread that someone was happy driving the 50's with a 504.


What woud be better for 70% music and 30% video:

2 Beta 50's ($500) - may not need a sub

or

2 Beta 40's ($400) and eventually a sub - most likely a h-100 or x-sub

Although I have room for the Beta 50, its large by todays standards and I would prefer something smaller. Then again, the 50 could save space if it doesnt require a sub?

If someone thinks their are better speakers for the same price, suggestions are appreciated. It seems that given the beta 50 reviews and what it used to sell for, that speaker would be hard to beat at current price point.

Also, if the 505 cant drive the speakers, I may be able to get a great deal on Yamaha that has 95 watts per channel - not sure if that would help a lot or not?
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post #560 of 2337 Old 12-28-2007, 04:23 PM
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Hey guys, I am new to the audio world, but have been doing quite a bit of research on speakers and components in my price range.

I just recently picked up a Samsung 5271 LCD and am now looking into a surround setup that is affordable

Heres what I have come up with so far

-Onkyo 605
-Beta 20s for the Front L and R
-C250 Center
-Beta 10s for the Rears (or should I get the 20s for the rear as well?)
-PS12 Subwoofer

This is right in my price point and I have read very good things about these speakers within there respective price range when matched up with other brands. Does this sound like a decent setup or am I going about this all wrong?

I live in a condo so I do not want sound to be super overpowering, I do not need wall shaking sound but I want crisp, smooth, and clean sound when watching movies and listening to music. I am coming from absolutely no audio equipment whatsoever and using TV sound only. I would like to hear back from anyone who might be able to offer me some positive feedback or suggestions on perhaps other Infinity products that are comparable.
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post #561 of 2337 Old 12-28-2007, 08:16 PM
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That would be a great setup. The 250 matches well with the 20's, and you should have enough sub there to get away just fine with using bookshelf speakers for the left/right. Personally, I'd go with the 20's for surrounds IF you plan to listen to SACD/DVD-Audio regularly. The extra bass response from the 20's as opposed to the 10's would be worth it with well-engineered discs, especially since you'll have the 20's up front and it'd be nice to have them matched. For movies, the 10's would be sufficient--for that matter they'd be fine for SACD/DVDA as well, and I'd only be going for the 20's as a matter of personal preference.
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post #562 of 2337 Old 12-28-2007, 09:36 PM
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Thanks zworykin for the tip. Is it bad to mount 20s or 10s on the wall? If so are ES250s good? I know these are a bit more money then I was looking to spend, but the way my room is set up the rears need to be mounted.
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post #563 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 01:20 AM
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i so want this system, but i don't have that kind of money. ****ina, you guys all talking how good this setup is, man! somebody just shoot me already.
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post #564 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbiv View Post

Thanks zworykin for the tip. Is it bad to mount 20s or 10s on the wall? If so are ES250s good? I know these are a bit more money then I was looking to spend, but the way my room is set up the rears need to be mounted.

Unless I'm mistaken, the 10's and 20's are rear-ported just like most Infinity bookshelf speakers. So, ideally, you'd need some space between them and the wall...perhaps 4 to 6 inches or so. I'm sure someone can give you a more exact recommendation. If you mount them flush against the wall, you'll be reducing the effectiveness of the woofers, losing some quality in the mid- to low- frequencies. At least in theory.

Back when I was running RS2 bookshelf units and before I had a clue what the hell I was doing, they were against the wall, and I never noticed much of a problem with surround effects. I might have noticed it more with music but I was only using the mains for that. When I upgraded to Betas and went with a 7.1 setup, I decided to go with the ES250's after hearing them in my cousin's home theater setup. So, I can't tell you how the 10's or 20's would sound in your setup, but I can say that I'm very pleased with the ES250's, and they're designed for wall-mounting.

The bottom line is, go with whatever your budget will support.

Aloha
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post #565 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbiv View Post

Is it bad to mount 20s or 10s on the wall? If so are ES250s good? I know these are a bit more money then I was looking to spend, but the way my room is set up the rears need to be mounted.

I overcame that rear-ported issue by buying a pair of front-ported Alpha 20s on e***. Still wish I had a pair of 250s though.

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post #566 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbiv View Post

Heres what I have come up with so far

-Onkyo 605
-Beta 20s for the Front L and R
-C250 Center
-Beta 10s for the Rears (or should I get the 20s for the rear as well?)
-PS12 Subwoofer

gbiv,

I've gotten a similar setup recently, and absolutely love it.

Beta 20s in the front
c360 center
Beta 10s for rears
PS212 sub

This setup is currently in a room that's 15' square, and it's plenty. I too debated whether to get 20s front and rear, but went with 10s for the rears and they're fine. An option for you with the C250 center is to go with Beta 10s all around - with a sub I don't see much difference between the 10s and 20s. I only got the 20s in front to match the 360, so that I'll have 6.5" woofers across the front.

I have my 20s and 360 on stands, and the 10s wall mounted. As long as you can get a few inches between the speakers and the wall, I don't notice much, if any, degradation in sound.

Eventually, I'm going to move the whole setup to the home theater I'm working on that's about 20' by 17', and I think it'll be more than enough, even for the larger room.

Whatever you go with, you'll enjoy it - these are great speakers!
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post #567 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tburley6 View Post

I have my 20s and 360 on stands, and the 10s wall mounted. As long as you can get a few inches between the speakers and the wall, I don't notice much, if any, degradation in sound.

First off thanks everyone for the help. Question for you tburley6. I will have my fronts and center on stands as well, do you recommend a stand for these speakers?
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post #568 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 01:36 PM
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First off thanks everyone for the help. Question for you tburley6. I will have my fronts and center on stands as well, do you recommend a stand for these speakers?

Based on recommendations I received on this forum, I went with the Wood Technology WC-30.5 for the fronts, and the Wood Technology CC Series for the center. I got mine from standsandmounts, nice stands and very reasonably priced.
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post #569 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 07:44 PM
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To chime in again here regarding wall-mounted/rear-ported speakers--

As others have said, as long as you get a few inches of separation you should be fine. Just buy some nice-looking shelves about 4 inches deeper than the speakers and toss them up on the wall, I'd say. If you can't afford to have shelves that deep, the designed-to-be-wall-mounted ES250 is a fantastic speaker and incredibly versatile--you can even run two wires to it and use just the one speaker (which has two woofers and two tweeters) as both the surround and the rear surround speaker for a 7.1 setup. It'd be a personal decision as to whether the extra cost is justified by the extra versatility and the low profile wall-mount design. For me, it was an easy decision--I've got two lovely black ES250s on my side walls; however, if you can live with deep enough shelves to get space between the 10s/20s and the wall, the sound quality would be just about the same.

My one minor nitpick with the ES250 is that its wall-mounted design makes it basically impossible to use banana plugs with. Of course, that's a very minor nitpick
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post #570 of 2337 Old 12-29-2007, 10:27 PM
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Ok I have made up my mind, I am going with ES250s in the rear. Thanks for the heads up about the banana plugs not being usable with the way these need to be mounted.

Last question why are center stands generally shorted in size then L and Rs. I thought it was best to have everything the same height, but every center stand I find is about 18-20 inches in height the speaker stands are about 30 inches or so.
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