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post #2041 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by secstate View Post

Most of the time when the IL50 amps crap out it is 5 cent resistor than burns out. Pretty easy fix. This has happened to one of the two IL50s I have. The IL60s are more reliable from what I can tell. Other than that one resistor my IL50s have been flawless for 10 years (knock on wood).

My sister has the IL50s that I bought 9 years ago. They are still going strong - even with her kids playing (ugh) rap with them. She also has IL40s for surrounds. I tried to talk my bro-in-law into the IL30s or IL10s for surrounds but he's a tower guy. They also have the IL36c center driven by a 10 year old Harman Kardon AVR 520 - a very stout machine. They bought that from me too.

I've read more than a few places that the IL60 amps are very robust compared to the IL50s.

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post #2042 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Hey, what's going on here. I step away from my desk and Beta talk turns into Interlude talk.

'Bout time, too. One of the most underappreciated lines in the Infinity pantheon. The Interludes were basically Intermezzos with cheaper cabinetry and no beauty. I mean, look at the Intermezzo 4.1t.



It's essentially the same driver complement of the IL60 at 3x the price. I still crave a pair. This was Infinity's first CMMD speaker.

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post #2043 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 06:49 PM
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What led me to the Interludes was a pair of Preludes in a Magnolia HiFi - back when they were a great audio store to shop at. The Preludes were the best speaker I'd ever heard regardless of price - but I still had a pair of kids at home. I think they were 'on sale' for $5999 or some ungodly thing like that. When Magnolia got the first of the Interludes in I knew I could finally afford some great sounding speakers - so I bought the 40s and 50s - and it's been a none-stop love affair ever since. Well ... I did 'divorce' from the 50s but only because I didn't like the sub placement - every place I set them where the subs sounded good they were in the way of something else - and the rest of the speakers didn't sound so good.

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post #2044 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

military duty?

no internet where you are going I guess?

I'll later get internet access, but I won't be anywhere near my audio equipment.

The design is not mine. You buy the kit with a premade crossover and go from there. I don't have the time or skill to design a 'quality' design from scratch. Due to my lack of skill, I could kludge something together and it'd work ok and eventually refined into something good, but that's where the lack of time part comes in.

Here's how it started. (center and L/R's pictured)


How it's progressed.
http://clearwave.forumotion.net/cld-...mk2-s-t108.htm

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post #2045 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

You buy the kit with a premade crossover and go from there. I don't have the time or skill to design a 'quality' design from scratch. Due to my lack of skill, I could kludge something together and it'd work ok and eventually refined into something good, but that's where the lack of time part comes in.


forgive me for asking, but how do you know if it's actually better then the interludes/betas until you have spent all that time and money and plug 'em in?

speaking of...would I be rude asking how much one of those towers cost you?
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post #2046 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

http://clearwave.forumotion.net/cld-...mk2-s-t108.htmHow it's progressed....I bought some Beta-50 towers... All I needed was the matching Beta-c360 (3way) center channel and I'd be done. I showed my wife what they looked like and the put the tape measure on our TV stand in order to get perspective on how big it was. It's 24" wide, the same width as our TV base, but not as deep. She just shook her head and said no. She said it would look dumb having what would look like a real tall base on our TV. Instead, she wanted it BIGGER; the same width as the TV.


I don't know...its a lot just to please the wife....

possible alternatives:

1) put two beta c360's side by side....51.2"....problem solved
(just don't tell her one doesn't work )

2) extend the wood on either side by 12" or

3) take a 50" pieces of wood...put sides on it and stretch a piece of cloth over the front. Then slip your c360 from behind instant center sound bar or

4) find a junky old speaker box on craigslist...gut it....slide yours in....use the grill it came with our make your own

it seems like any of these would have been cheaper if not more viable options

just be ready, soon she'll be asking you to build a bigger house
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post #2047 of 2451 Old 09-18-2010, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by GLBright View Post

The Interludes were basically Intermezzos with cheaper cabinetry and no beauty.

I guess we have a different idea about beauty...I think the beveled edge and cloth grill of the Interludes look far classier then the metal grills on the betas

even better in cherry or maple.....but black was what I ended up with
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post #2048 of 2451 Old 09-19-2010, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

I guess we have a different idea about beauty...I think the beveled edge and cloth grill of the Interludes look far classier then the metal grills on the betas

even better in cherry or maple.....but black was what I ended up with

I agree they're better looking than the Betas. I was only comparing them to the Intermezzos. Anything that sounds this good is beautiful anyway.

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post #2049 of 2451 Old 09-19-2010, 03:16 AM
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I know that the folks over on the Primus thread really love that speaker line. Has anyone done a head to head comparison of them vs. Betas/Interludes? I'd be interested in seeing how much of the older Infinity sound has carried over to these inexpensive siblings. Same with the Classia line (which nobody seems to talk about).

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post #2050 of 2451 Old 09-19-2010, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLBright View Post

I know that the folks over on the Primus thread really love that speaker line. Has anyone done a head to head comparison of them vs. Betas/Interludes? I'd be interested in seeing how much of the older Infinity sound has carried over to these inexpensive siblings. Same with the Classia line (which nobody seems to talk about).

I've done something of a comparison. I have a 4 Infinity TSS speakers - two 750s and two 800s - both have the same 3/4" tweeter used in the primus line. The tweeters are very good - nearly but not quite as good as the 1" CMMD. I was surprised that they sound so good given what I paid for them - I have under $100 for the four - including floor stands for the 750s. Both are the same speaker (model change) with a 3 1/2" 'woofer' and the 3/4" MMD tweeter - so the 'woofer' is a bad joke - but the tweeter is very good. Where the CMMD leaves the MMD tweeter in the dust is when you crank up the sound - and it doesn't take that much to separate them. I A/Bed them with my Cascade Three Vs for about a week - using the Cascade sub with both - connected to the HK 3390. It was fairly easy to tell the two apart after only a short time. For what I paid for these little wonders they sound pretty damned good - just nothing below about 150hz to speak of. The Cascades roll off at 80hz.

I use these small speakers with the Cascade sub for my tv and computer 'noise' - two in the living room and two in the exercise room driven by a Denon 589 AVR. Works for me and keeps the wear and tear down on the HT stuff. I fire up the Integra/upa-7/Interludes when I want to rock or watch a movie.

The Classia 336 - top of that lineup - gets good marks from reviewers for the tweeters - no surprise since they have the 1" CMMD tweeters we all love so much - but takes a hit fairly regularly in the mid-bass - most reviewers report it as being muddy. No surprise since the single 4" mid-bass cone is being swamped out by the three 6.5" woofers.

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post #2051 of 2451 Old 09-19-2010, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

forgive me for asking, but how do you know if it's actually better then the interludes/betas until you have spent all that time and money and plug 'em in?

Well, I don't know for sure, I'm just hoping it does. I'll find out in about 2-3hrs once I get the cabinet wiped down and drivers installed.

This kit was picked mostly due to a lack of options. Of all the designs/kits I came across that I believed to be quality, the 4CC center (uses the exact same drivers as the 4T towers) was the biggest. And I needed the biggest center I could find to fit the width of the TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaGregg View Post

speaking of...would I be rude asking how much one of those towers cost you?

The basic kit for the towers $1040 shipped and goes up from there depending on what you want.
http://www.clearwavespeakers.com/products.html

Mine is upgraded with better capacitors, resistors, inductors, and silver coated speaker wire. However, I bought my kit from someone else who needed money and sold the kit unused. I don't know what the actual price of my kit would cost. The caps and resistors I was able to find and add up, $366.90, but I couldn't identify the inductors, so I have no idea how much they cost.

YID DIY
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post #2052 of 2451 Old 09-27-2010, 02:33 PM
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Not sure how I missed this thread but checking in. I've got Beta 50's in front (I've had for about 6 years) and a Beta C360 that picked up on fleabay a few months ago to replace an undersized C250 for my room (17x19x9).

I've been pleased with the Betas since I've had them but wow does Infinity get knocked around on the boards and amongst fellow HT owners! Makes me wonder if I need to hear some more systems to appreciate what I have or jump ship.

Another option I'm considering is throwing an Emotiva XPA-2 amp on the fronts to see it does any better with the extra headroom vs. what's coming out of my Denon 4308. Anyone heard a set of Betas with 300 watts per channel?
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post #2053 of 2451 Old 09-27-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Leifashley27 View Post

Not sure how I missed this thread but checking in. I've got Beta 50's in front (I've had for about 6 years) and a Beta C360 that picked up on fleabay a few months ago to replace an undersized C250 for my room (17x19x9).

I've been pleased with the Betas since I've had them but wow does Infinity get knocked around on the boards and amongst fellow HT owners! Makes me wonder if I need to hear some more systems to appreciate what I have or jump ship.

Another option I'm considering is throwing an Emotiva XPA-2 amp on the fronts to see it does any better with the extra headroom vs. what's coming out of my Denon 4308. Anyone heard a set of Betas with 300 watts per channel?

Yeah you may want to listen to more systems. Your Denon is plenty to drive those speakers. Do not waste your time with Emotiva or more power for your Betas. I am not trying to rain on your parade, i am just speaking from experience.

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post #2054 of 2451 Old 09-27-2010, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leifashley27 View Post

... Anyone heard a set of Betas with 300 watts per channel?

No, I haven't. But I'm running my Interlude IL-60s with 350wpc of Carver power. Does it make a difference over the 100wpc Onkyo receiver that would otherwise be powering them? Yes. A big difference? Umm.. I listen to Kenton, British Brass Band, Drum Corps, Mahler. So in this case, yes. YMMV. Oh, and those knocking Infinity just haven't heard them yet.

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post #2055 of 2451 Old 09-27-2010, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leifashley27 View Post


I've been pleased with the Betas since I've had them but wow does Infinity get knocked around on the boards and amongst fellow HT owners! Makes me wonder if I need to hear some more systems to appreciate what I have or jump ship.

You'll have to spend a lot of money to get better than the Beta 50s. You can't sell them for anything close to what they are worth performance wise. As for the forum members that knock Infinity they are probably thinking HTIB speakers - which as you know - these ain't. Most forum members that have heard the Interlude Alpha and Beta line recognize how good they are. The Cascades are good too - I have a 5.0 set of them - but I went back to the Interludes for the better bass performance with music.

I have an all Interlude front sound stage (IL40s & IL36c center) and they sound incredibly good. I owned a pair of Emotiva ERT towers for about 8 months - they have dual 8" woofers - I could hardly hear any bass from them although the mid and upper range was good. Even with 280wpc they had problems making bass. My IL40s can play down to 35hz and I can hear bass in music without the need for subs (I have two very good ones) and in fact turning on a sub just makes it too much bass. I sold the ERTs as soon as I got a decent offer.

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post #2056 of 2451 Old 09-27-2010, 08:32 PM
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Mmm. Nice to see plenty of Infinity fans around still.

Ten year Interlude owner here, still going strong. I did have a tweeter partially fail in one of the IL40's about a year ago sadly. Harman still stocks the parts and it was very simple to replace the bad tweeter and get her singing again. One of the things I've enoyed the most about these speakers is that as I hook them up to better and better equipment I keep finding they have more and more to give and never reveal themselves as the weak link in the system. I put my dedicated 2.0 gear (Virtue TWO amp and Channel Islands VDA-2 DAC) on the IL40's for fun just before moving this summer and was just astonished at the transparency and realism. The sense of listening to a recording was nonexistent. Not bad for a ten year old pair of towers.
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post #2057 of 2451 Old 09-28-2010, 12:50 AM
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I had a Primus system (2 360s, C25, 2 160s) for a year before acquiring Betas (2 50s, c360, 2 ES250s) while they were on clearance. I swapped them out twice ( for CL sale demos) and IMO in my room the Betas were clearly better. I am well aware of the placebo effect but even taking that into account I am sure the difference I heard was real.

In my experience the best way to know for sure is some time later when I am not thinking about the speaker itself and I hear something that clearly was not there before. I was washing dishes with music playing when I had that moment and was sure I was right in keeping the Betas. I am very picky and would not have hesitated sending them back if there was any doubt on my part.

I recently replaced my Onkyo 605 with an 805 and with my setup I feel the same way with that purchase. In my experience more power does make a difference but I cannot say even more power would again achieve the same benefit.

Edit: I should mention the 805 has a much better implementation of Audyssey (MultiEQ XT vs 2EQ) which likely would account for some of the difference.

I don't really know anything. I am just repeating what I have either heard or read elsewhere.
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post #2058 of 2451 Old 09-28-2010, 05:06 PM
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OK, there's some powered Interlude owners on this thread. How do you have them hooked up? The two options: run the whole thing as one big speaker w/ the 150Hz low pass filter engaged; or run the subwoofer separately via line in and disengage the 150Hz low pass filter. And do (have) you used RABOS? I've not yet gone with option 2, but I'm sorely tempted.

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post #2059 of 2451 Old 09-28-2010, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLBright View Post

OK, there's some powered Interlude owners on this thread. How do you have them hooked up? The two options: run the whole thing as one big speaker w/ the 150Hz low pass filter engaged; or run the subwoofer separately via line in and disengage the 150Hz low pass filter. And do (have) you used RABOS? I've not yet gone with option 2, but I'm sorely tempted.

Actually there are 5 different combinations to set up the IL50s and 60s. RTFM...

I sold my IL50s three years ago but still remember how I set them up. I always ran an RCA to my IL50s from the sub-out from the AVR with the low pass filter off (all switches down actually) - called 'method 3a' in the manual. I used them in a HT speaker setup at all times. Any way you set them up you you should run rabos - it'll make a huge difference. The subs in the IL50s were just out of control before I bought the rabos meter. Boomy bass isn't easy on the ears - at least mine. I like nice tight bass and that is what I got after running the rabos setup. It takes about half an hour or so.

I have my Cascade Model 15 sub set up with rabos - it has the same three dials as on the IL50s/60s. It sounds very good but doesn't play lower than 30hz but it's designed that way. For music it's as good a sub as I've heard - or owned. My Elemental Designs A5-350 is good with music but can't come close to the Model 15 for music. For movies it's the other way round. I use both for movies.

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post #2060 of 2451 Old 09-29-2010, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post


I always ran an RCA to my IL50s from the sub-out from the AVR with the low pass filter off (all switches down actually) - called 'method 3a' in the manual. I used them in a HT speaker setup at all times.

I use RABOS. Cut the 60Hz peak big time, but I had to leave the 30Hz peak alone. I've always run my IL60s full-range and not used the sub out from the receiver. I just figured the 150Hz low-pass filter on the front woofer was there for a reason. No sense over-taxing it by making it run down to 80Hz. Somehow I think that's what Infinity engineers were wanting owners to do.

But there is a drawback for this implemetation. The receiver "sees" lots of power going to the speaker even though the subs are powered. Consequence: occasional protection mode. I may try the sub out approach until such time that I get the amp on my DefTech PF1500 sub repaired. And when using sub out the light towers on the Carver amp don't go near as high. Strange.

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post #2061 of 2451 Old 11-27-2010, 02:58 AM
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My Speakers are 5.0, Infinity Beta 40s (bi-wired), 20s and C360
My Onkyo TX-SR706B shows two options for ohm settings.
Offers 4 ohm or 6 ohm setting
What would each setting do and what is recommended?

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Infinity Beta 5.1

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post #2062 of 2451 Old 11-28-2010, 09:52 AM
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The trick with setting up a satellite-sub system properly is to always, always shoot for a splice frequency of 80Hz. Tom Holman determined this frequency back in the eighties when he was developing THX up at George Lucas' ranch. And the Dolby guys, who were (and still are) up in SF at the time agreed that 80Hz was a best splice frequency because most (mostly ported designs) 5.25" mid-woofer monitoring systems rolled off (-3dB) around 80Hz.

A well-designed 4" mid-woofer will roll-off around 100HZ -3dB, but a 3" does really well if it can get down to 120Hz @-3dB. A 2.25" Bose sat doesn't start getting on the flat low-end part of the frequency curve until around 150Hz but psycho-acoustically it is much "easier on the ears" to have a suck-out in the 80Hz to 150Hz region, which most people think of as being flatter sounding, than to have a phony bump which, when coupled with a poorly set-up sub, non-flat at the 80Hz splice-point, sounds like mud. )

The object of the whole 80Hz splice is to be able to obtain a Flat response at 80Hz, not one hyped with a bump via porting designed to make the satellite itself sound like it can put out more bass that it should be doing in the first place. So a trick to try in addition to running RABOS on the sub is to plug the port on a 5.25" or 6" satellite speaker at the same time.

About RABOS. Greatest invention that nobody ever used. Seriously. I run two Infinity subs, a CSW-10" and an Intermezzo 1.2 12", both of which have RABOS built-in. Both subs are also in room corners so I get a whole lot of free SPL gain which naturally comes in the form of a huge bass boost at ~70.5 Hz because my ceiling is 8 feet high and 8 feet is the half-wavelength (of 1130' /sec divided by 8' = 141.25 Hz). Without RABOS to get rid of the 70Hz hump(s) I'd have more than a 9dB boost at my listening position. And my Audyssey Sound Equalizer (ASE) is software-driven to only account for a maximum of 9dB when it does its magic. So my bass-room calibration procedure was to first spend about two hours tweaking the response of my two subs across the three-person listening positions of my sofa. Using the RABOS on each sub I was trying for the best flatness-balance of the two subs across the three sofa listening positions. I did this Before I ran Audyssey's calibration sequence on the ASE. So, by the time I did run the ASE calibration the huge 70Hz room peaks were already gone from the bass-to-midrange signal Audyssey's calibrated microphone would "hear". My left-right front sats are my (own-design) Beta 10s and my current center is an Infinity Modulus which was designed by Pedro Manrique who is now at M-Audio.

Regarding setting a 4 ohm or 6 ohm switch on the back of a receiver. Two reasons for using the 4 ohm or the 6 ohm. This can be a crap-shoot. First, at Infinity (and JBL and Harman and Revel) the design edict for at least the last 10 years as far is impedance is concerned is that no loudspeaker can dip below 4 ohms within it's passband, even as we designers rated our speaker's as "8-ohms", knowing that almost all of our designs dipped to just above or slightly below 4-ohms most times in the low bass region. Second, bear in mind that receiver manufacturers have to get their designs through UL before they sell them. And receiver manufacturers aren't (usually) also speaker manufacturers.

Having a 4-ohm switch on the back of a receiver may mean that to pass UL when using a 4-ohm resistor load the receiver's protection circuitry has been designed to go into protection sooner because of temperature rise (caused by increased current). Conversely, the 6-ohm position may typically correspond to the receiver being able to more easily pass UL before temperature rise causes the protection circuitry to kick in; that is, a speaker which dips to 4-ohms with the receiver switch set to 6-ohm may be able to play very slightly louder because it might have a tiny bit more headroom, more power kinda-sorta "in reserve" available before heat-tripped amplifier protection circuitry cuts in.

In practice it may be very, very difficult to tell what was the amp manufacturer's thinking when they put that switch on the back. But all manufacturers want to a) get their their products sold first, and for that reason b) a switch is put on the back so they can get the receiver through UL in the first place. Use full bandwidth pink noise such as can be found on the RABOS CD while switching between the 4 or 6 ohm position. If you can hear a difference in SPL pick the switch position which appears to play a bit louder. You may be letting the receiver's power a bit more breathing room as far as heat build-up is concerned before the protection circuitry kicks in.

As far as I've been able to determine this switch thing is a modern day patch made to protect receiver manufacturers so that they can keep their products sold and their reputations for building quality products in tact. The genesis for this switch, again, as far as I've been able to determine, goes back to the early eighties when I was Yamaha's first product manager and I would get on Yamaha Japan's case for not quoting their R-300,R-500, R-700, R-1000 and R-2000 receivers' power into the traditional 8-ohm load. Yamaha was trying to cut costs by abandoning discrete power transistors and going to VLSI's which couldn't run into a 4-ohm load for more than about 30 seconds. Conversely, these VLSI's couldn't put out rated power at 8-ohms so Yamaha chose to go to the 6-ohm rating at the same time they introduced their atrocious sounding VLSIs. Fortunately I got Yamaha to see the error of their ways and they went back to discrete transistor power amp designs after that R-series.

And what happened to the VLSI's? Yamaha Japan sold those VLSI's to the Koreans who were just getting into consumer audio and didn't any better at the time. Orphaned Yamaha VLSIs showed up in the next generation Sherwood receivers. Glad we're past that period in crummy sounding audio! Say what you will about bit-rate limited iPods. If asked to equivocate I would guess those Yamaha VLSi's of almost thirty years ago would sound like a ~32kB/sec music stream today.
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post #2063 of 2451 Old 12-14-2010, 07:49 AM
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My beta 40's that I bought a while back didn't come with spikes . They have the plastic feet but I never seen any spikes in the box. Do you have any suggestions? Would something like this work?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=240-715
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post #2064 of 2451 Old 01-16-2011, 04:57 PM
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To plhart: Thank you for your extensive post here. I wonder how may speaker designers here on AVS put in the time that you do on a speaker you designed that is no longer in production? I have Betas throughout my 5.1 system, including two SW12 subs using RABOS to tame a 40Hz boost caused by my room. It sounds outstanding.

The Devil's in the Details
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post #2065 of 2451 Old 02-01-2011, 12:37 PM
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so what current speakers beat the betas. i have beta 40s and don't wanna spend my hard earned $$$ if I'm not going to notice a difference. I have around $1500 to spend on a L/C/R combination.
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post #2066 of 2451 Old 02-01-2011, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post

so what current speakers beat the betas. i have beta 40s and don't wanna spend my hard earned $$$ if I'm not going to notice a difference. I have around $1500 to spend on a L/C/R combination.

What improvements are you looking for? That would help recommendations. More clarity? Warmer sound? Music or home theater?
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post #2067 of 2451 Old 02-01-2011, 01:46 PM
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I was thinking myself of getting Energy RC 70 as my mains. http://www.energy-speakers.com/na-en...c-70-overview/

My reasons are:

1) they are a bit smaller in cabinet size (but I would be giving up my 8 inch
woofers in the beta my 6.5 inch woofers in the Energy)
2) they have real wood veneer (even though only in black). Even so the
Energy does look nicer!
3) they are at closeout prices (MSRP $2000/pr - sale $800/pr)
4) beta 50's retail new was $1,000/pr and Energy is $2,000/pr so maybe
Energy is built better?

But would Energy sound better? Anyone compared the two?
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post #2068 of 2451 Old 02-01-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackzarg View Post

What improvements are you looking for? That would help recommendations. More clarity? Warmer sound? Music or home theater?

Home theater specifically...I'm a movie buff.
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post #2069 of 2451 Old 02-01-2011, 03:15 PM
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Home theater specifically...I'm a movie buff.

Are you using a center and surrounds right now? Subwoofer? If not.... I'd definitely invest in that!

You could give pro speakers a try, if they don't need to look like furniture. The CHT SHO-10 or PRO-10 are within your budget, with room for a sub.
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post #2070 of 2451 Old 02-01-2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juiceblrc View Post

I was thinking myself of getting Energy RC 70 as my mains. http://www.energy-speakers.com/na-en...c-70-overview/

My reasons are:

1) they are a bit smaller in cabinet size (but I would be giving up my 8 inch
woofers in the beta my 6.5 inch woofers in the Energy)
2) they have real wood veneer (even though only in black). Even so the
Energy does look nicer!
3) they are at closeout prices (MSRP $2000/pr - sale $800/pr)
4) beta 50's retail new was $1,000/pr and Energy is $2,000/pr so maybe
Energy is built better?

But would Energy sound better? Anyone compared the two?

I'm a Beta 40s owner, which I'm happy with.
I'm going to "guess" the Energy RC-70s are better sounding as they use Kevlar.
And I've never seen a bad review on Energy speakers.

Yamaha RX-V671 receiver
Infinity Beta 5.1

Vizio D58U-D3 (Costco) TV
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