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post #1 of 2345 Old 02-11-2007, 05:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Strange, I don't see a thread for this line.
I've had mine a week and really like them so far. I've 50s, C360 and 20s as rears. I've a HSU 3.2 on the way. I was a little intrigued by the review at UltimateAV (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speaker...ty/index1.html) stating that cleaner, quality power results in much better sound from the Betas. Of course it does right? I'm currently running Sony STR975 but looking towards the HDMI 1.3 Denons as a future option. What are others powering their Betas with? How do you describe their sound? Can you compare to other speakers you've owned?
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post #2 of 2345 Old 02-12-2007, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

Strange, I don't see a thread for this line.
I've had mine a week and really like them so far. I've 50s, C360 and 20s as rears. I've a HSU 3.2 on the way. I was a little intrigued by the review at UltimateAV (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/speaker...ty/index1.html) stating that cleaner, quality power results in much better sound from the Betas. Of course it does right? I'm currently running Sony STR975 but looking towards the HDMI 1.3 Denons as a future option. What are others powering their Betas with? How do you describe their sound? Can you compare to other speakers you've owned?

I am slowly building my system and currently have a 3.0 setup running through an old Technics Dolby Prologic Surround Receiver. I've got the 40's and the C360 as well as a pair of Primus 150's running in another room for music. Until last week I had the 150's as my L/R fronts, but when I hooked up my new 40's.... what a difference. Now I know why they mean you have to have the LCR frequency matched, all the nuances between the 3 fronts became seemless and so much more detailed. We watch 40%TV, 30% movies, 30% radio/cd's of all types(classical to metal to country to jazz to rock, but no rap or hiphop).

I was originally going to go for the 50's but after considering my room size and where they would be placed (in addtion to plhart's comments in this forum) I decided to go with the 40's. I will probably only have a 3.1 system in this room which does not lend itself to good placement of the TV/entertainment center or speakers (or WAF).

My next step is to either upgrade my receiver or get a subwoofer. If anyone can give advice which would be better for a 3.1 system I am currently being wooed by the Pioneer 816/1016 or the Denon 2807 or to wait for HDMI 1.3 receivers and get a good sub in the interim (leaning towards a BIC H100 or HSU due to their musicality).

Any advice? Oh, and will getting a digital receiver make a huge difference expecially since I am not running surrounds?

Thanks for starting a Beta thread.
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post #3 of 2345 Old 02-12-2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbehrman View Post

My next step is to either upgrade my receiver or get a subwoofer. If anyone can give advice which would be better for a 3.1 system I am currently being wooed by the Pioneer 816/1016 or the Denon 2807 or to wait for HDMI 1.3 receivers and get a good sub in the interim (leaning towards a BIC H100 or HSU due to their musicality).

Any advice? Oh, and will getting a digital receiver make a huge difference expecially since I am not running surrounds?

Thanks for starting a Beta thread.

From what I've read those would be 2 good choices on subs. The receiver I don't have enough knowledge to tell you to wait for the HDMI 1.3 or not. I'm sure several people will chime in and let you know what the best option is for you.
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post #4 of 2345 Old 02-12-2007, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I also read plharts comments. I thought about getting the 40s but the room I have is 15x30 and pretty well the whole of it is for HT (it's a basement room so WAF is dminished).
I can't comment on your current rec., but I can tell you that I was also considering a 2807. The only reason Im holding off is due to more HDMI inputs in the 08s.
Re: 2ch music listening, how do you find the midrange of your 40s for that? Im finding the 50s a little harsh. The C360 is really great compared with the IL25 I was previously running. Very intelligible. I agree with you that having a matched set across the front makes a difference.
Regarding 3.1, I suppose youve already considered ceiling mounted/inceiling/in wall surrounds?
Adding a sub can really make a significant impact on a system. Ill get back to you with my impressions of the HSU I ordered, should be here tomorrow. Some HSUs are on sale now btw.
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post #5 of 2345 Old 02-12-2007, 04:56 PM
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I A/B'ed the beta 50's using JUST the yamaha rx-v640 receiver and using an external amp (RMB1066 180wpc)

I found that the bass was better with the external amp

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post #6 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

I can't comment on your current rec., but I can tell you that I was also considering a 2807. The only reason Im holding off is due to more HDMI inputs in the 08s.

I am with you there as my current LCD has only 1 HDMI input.

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Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

Re: 2ch music listening, how do you find the midrange of your 40s for that? Im finding the 50s a little harsh.

I have only listened to some Diana Krall, Lee Rittenaur(sp?) and Led Zeppelin IV, and some FM radio and there is no harshness at all (despite hardwood floors). I am very happy with the clarity and neutrality of the sound being produced. The bass extension for me is quite adequate (though I have never heard lower). Even better, my wife and kids seems to be happy with them too (ehe kids love the oldies radio station). Next up is some Thelonious Monk and some music with heavier bass if I can dig it up (maybe some Sonic Youth,Neil Young with Crazy Horse or Nick Cave).


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

Regarding 3.1, I suppose youve already considered ceiling mounted/inceiling/in wall surrounds?

No, not at this time. Primarily because most of our viewing is OTA and there does not seem to be much surround in the broadcast. I also watched "The 5th Element (Suberbit)" and did not hear enough to make me feel that it is needed at the moment. At least that is what I experienced over a weekend having a pair of bookshelves hooked up to my Dolby Pro Logic receiver (hence the question whether a digital receiver would make much difference).
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post #7 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 08:25 AM
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I am very glad you started this thread, I wanted to, but didn't know if there were enough of us floating around here.

I am running
3x Beta 50's for mains
4x Beta 20's for surrounds
I also have, but am not currently using
2x Beta ES250's
1x Beta C250

I originally was powering the 50's with an Onkyo TX-SR504, and I LOVED them. Then I picked up an H/K 3480 stereo reciever to power them, it made a decent difference, and I was very pleased with the results. I am now running the main 50's with a crown XLS402D and am powering the center with a bridged XLS202D, the surrounds are powered by an 80wpc NAD amp I sniped off of ebay.

As for subwoofage, I was running an IL120s but recently ordered an HSU VTF-3 MKIII, however, I canceled the order so that I can build my own sub.

I gotta say, those 50's can really take the heat, I am driving them with 260watts each right now and they just eat it up. Of course, right now I am dealing with a pair of blown tweeters, but if you read the thread, its no testament to their limits, just an accident.
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post #8 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 09:59 AM
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I agree, great thread. I have 2 Beta 50s and a C360 in front, 2 ES250s for L/R surround. I power them with a Yamaha HTR-5750 6.1 digital receiver. I think these speakers sound phenomenal for music and movies. On the ES250 speakers, the ability to switch from dipole to bipole for movies & music, respectively makes a HUGE difference in sound quality, especially for DVD-A recordings. Even without, pro logic or DTS music settings still sound great.

I went with the Beta 50s so that when I move to a bigger house these speakers can fill the extra space. Reviews online seemed to indicate that dialogue clarity from the C360 center speaker out to the sides of the central listening position was sharper than the C250 but I never tested this.

All in all, I'm extremely happy with all of these speakers. To get them all for under $1000 is a great deal and easily done over the internet (or your local Circuit City if they still have some Beta stragglers...)
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post #9 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 01:03 PM
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I currently am running an Infinity Beta C360 and my surrounds arent exactly Beta but the OWS-1 speakers, which have the same C.M.M.D material. I do plan on getting the Beta 50's. At first I was going to get the Primus line, but I have changed my mind. I love the C360 center. I would like to run the Beta 20's but they are too huge for my wall or ceiling.
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post #10 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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armystud0911 I am very glad you started this thread, I wanted to, but didn't know if there were enough of us floating around here.

I am running
3x Beta 50's for mains
4x Beta 20's for surrounds
I also have, but am not currently using
2x Beta ES250's
1x Beta C250

Wow sweet setup.
I think I read the thread you mention a few days ago, something about landlords cat...I remember keying in on it because it was about Betas, too bad hopefully you can get the original parts, or maybe if its a good excuse to customise
So are you using a projector/screen to hide the middle Beta? I suppose with those amps that your mids are just fine alogn with the highs and lows.
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post #11 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshtnut View Post

I currently am running an Infinity Beta C360 and my surrounds arent exactly Beta but the OWS-1 speakers, which have the same C.M.M.D material. I do plan on getting the Beta 50's. At first I was going to get the Primus line, but I have changed my mind. I love the C360 center. I would like to run the Beta 20's but they are too huge for my wall or ceiling.

have you seen the ES250s?
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post #12 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtVandalay7 View Post

I agree, great thread. I have 2 Beta 50s and a C360 in front, 2 ES250s for L/R surround. I power them with a Yamaha HTR-5750 6.1 digital receiver. I think these speakers sound phenomenal for music and movies. On the ES250 speakers, the ability to switch from dipole to bipole for movies & music, respectively makes a HUGE difference in sound quality, especially for DVD-A recordings. Even without, pro logic or DTS music settings still sound great.

I went with the Beta 50s so that when I move to a bigger house these speakers can fill the extra space. Reviews online seemed to indicate that dialogue clarity from the C360 center speaker out to the sides of the central listening position was sharper than the C250 but I never tested this.

All in all, I'm extremely happy with all of these speakers. To get them all for under $1000 is a great deal and easily done over the internet (or your local Circuit City if they still have some Beta stragglers...)

I was also looking at the ES' for upgrading to 7.1 down the road, only prob is that they only come in black and white, of course I have Beta in cherry
I ws wondering how they would sound driven by a Yamaha.
I guess my mid-harsh prob is the rec. ive got, Ive only heard bad things about STRs of that era , soundquality wise.
I also got a great deal on the Betas through 'net. Movies really stand out for sure.
I had some Image Concept 100s before these with Velo sub. They sufficed but the difference with these is huge.
I've heard lots of good things about Primus as well, anyone had a chance to demo both lines?
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post #13 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow this is more posts then Ive made in years!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbehrman View Post

I have only listened to some Diana Krall, Lee Rittenaur(sp?) and Led Zeppelin IV...(despite hardwood floors). I am very happy with the clarity and neutrality of the sound being produced....Next up is some Thelonious Monk and some music with heavier bass if I can dig it up (maybe some Sonic Youth,Neil Young with Crazy Horse or Nick Cave).
...(hence the question whether a digital receiver would make much difference).

First off, I have to say great taste in music! I've got cheap laminate flooring inthe basement, maybe thats contributing in a negative way.
Im far from an expert in this stuff but with digital amp you would have the various virtual sound fields available, with your 3.1 setup you may notice a difference.
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post #14 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

Wow this is more posts then Ive made in years!


First off, I have to say great taste in music! I've got cheap laminate flooring inthe basement, maybe thats contributing in a negative way.
Im far from an expert in this stuff but with digital amp you would have the various virtual sound fields available, with your 3.1 setup you may notice a difference.


Plus you are in a basement (finished/unfinished), have you looked at acoustic treatments and sound diffusers; or added rugs and/or wall hangings to handle the sound waves? I was looking at a company called Auralex(?) for speaker isolation stuff (because I was worried about my space), but they have a lot of other stuff too that I was intrigued with. They had a couple kits for various sized rooms. At least it might give you some ideas to start looking around, from what I have read the room has a lot to do with how stuff sounds. Also check up the forum under Audio Theory, Setup... (I think) they discuss room dynamics there as well.

Oh, and your amp characteristics might have something to do with the sound as well. I hear the Beta's tend to be bright and one should look for a "warm" amp such as a Denon or HK. This is also why I went with the 40's instead of the 50's because of plhart's (and others) comment that the 50's sound was really effected by the placement of the speaker. My placement was very limited and so I needed to have no by-product based upon speaker placement thus I went with the 40's.

Somebody else chime in here because I am getting out of my depth (just read a lot of the threads about the Beta 40 and 50 before I chose)
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post #15 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbehrman View Post

Plus you are in a basement (finished/unfinished), have you looked at acoustic treatments and sound diffusers; or added rugs and/or wall hangings to handle the sound waves? I was looking at a company called Auralex(?).....I hear the Beta's tend to be bright and one should look for a "warm" amp such as a Denon or HK. This is also why I went with the 40's instead of the 50's because of plhart's (and others) comment that the 50's sound was really effected by the placement of the speaker.

Basement is finished/furnished, wallboard (Gyproc) all around.
Both those manufacturers are the ones Ive been checking on for rec. upgrade.
I've got room to move the 50s around/try diff spots.
Do you think you are going to take the plunge with a newer rec/amp also?
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post #16 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

have you seen the ES250s?

Would I use these as the side surround or rear surround?
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post #17 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 04:52 PM
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nice thread. Thinking about getting Beta 40 or 50s. Do people have the black or cherry versions?
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post #18 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshtnut View Post

Would I use these as the side surround or rear surround?

Just that you mentioned you were unable to put them on the wall. These are designed to go on a wall. you can also run 2 sets of wires to them, one for side and one for rear surround.
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/HOM/Ow...taES250-OM.pdf
Just something to consider.
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post #19 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pneusound View Post

nice thread. Thinking about getting Beta 40 or 50s. Do people have the black or cherry versions?

Cherry Beta C360
Cherry Beta 40's (R/L Fronts)
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post #20 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalexan View Post

Do you think you are going to take the plunge with a newer rec/amp also?

I think I am going to wait for multiple HDMI outputs and switching to filter all the way down to the budget models and see what Denon has to offer. Hopefully, they will show up by September. If I would do it now I would probably get a Pioneer 816 (under $300 from BB) and run video straight to the LCD panel. It has Preouts (I have an old Kenwood 125 watt amp to bi-amp the 40's) and allows a second area by using the back surround outputs, but it has (gasp ) no phono preamp or input. If money was not as much a concern I would get the Denon 2807 which has all the above and so much more.

So I will ................wait.
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post #21 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 07:39 PM
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Folks,

Did anyone compare Beta 40 versus 50? I do not care so much about deep bass (I'll get subwoofer), but I'm a little concerned about size of 50's.

And did anyone tried to bi-amp them? I'm planning to get Denon 1907 or similar, that can be used as 5.1 with bi-amping on front. Is it gonna give me better sound?

Or if anyone know where I can listen them in San Francisco Bay Area, I'll appreciate an advice. [Crappy] Infinity site only gives me Fry's Electronics as their dealer
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post #22 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 09:25 PM
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The 40's sound great as well, they are massive improvement over the already well done bookshelves. Both the 40's and 50's have incredibly fast bass so there isn't much of an sonic improvement with the 40's. I don't know about the 40's being easier to place than the 50's, I have my 50's 3 feet away from the wall with my projector screen in front of them. The power amps really bring these guys to life, I'd recommend them to anyone who owns towers with decent driver array. They don't sound much louder, just a lot more dynamic, you don't realize how much your amps can clip without you knowing it.
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post #23 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 09:54 PM
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armystud0911 it's not about placement, it's about the fact that I do not own a house and still move often (may do it couple times a year), and smaller speaker are benificial for me

But thanks for your reply!
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post #24 of 2345 Old 02-13-2007, 10:26 PM
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I a/b'ed the Primus 360 and the BETA 40 ...

the BETA 40 was noticeably better that I bought the 50's sight unseen.

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post #25 of 2345 Old 02-14-2007, 03:17 AM
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ahh, I am still moving quite a bit, I figured, what's another 12lbs? they will be more futureproof this way, but to each his own.

*edit
I could write a book on biamping the beta 50's, I have tried it all - passively with zone 2 of my receiver, "vertical", and with preamp active and passive xovers. Don't bother with any of them, just get a very hefty amp to drive them and be happy.
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post #26 of 2345 Old 02-14-2007, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

..I could write a book on biamping the beta 50's, I have tried it all - passively with zone 2 of my receiver, "vertical", and with preamp active and passive xovers. Don't bother with any of them, just get a very hefty amp to drive them and be happy.

very much agreed. I'm not even using a receiver to bi-amp ... i'm using a dedicated external amp 100wpc x 7, and it still made no difference.

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post #27 of 2345 Old 02-14-2007, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

ahh, I am still moving quite a bit, I figured, what's another 12lbs? they will be more futureproof this way, but to each his own.

Beta 50
Frequency Response (±3dB): 35Hz - 20kHz
30Hz - 40kHz (- 6dB)
Recommended Power Amplifier Range: 10 - 250 watts
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m): 91dB
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Crossover Frequency: 600Hz; 18dB/octave
3,200Hz; 12dB/octave
Low-Frequency Driver: Dual 8" (200mm) CMMD
Midrange Driver: 5" (130mm) CMMD
High-Frequency Driver: 1" (25mm) CMMD
Dimensions
(H x W x D): 41-5/16" x 10-7/16" x 14-11/16" (1050mm x 265mm x 372mm)
Weight: 62.5 lb (28.4kg)

Beta 40
PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS

Frequency Response (±3dB): 45Hz - 22kHz
40Hz - 40kHz (- 6dB)
Recommended Power Amplifier Range: 10 - 200 watts
Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m): 91dB
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Crossover Frequency: 600Hz; 18dB/octave
3,200Hz; 12dB/octave
Low-Frequency Driver: Dual 6-1/2" (165mm) CMMD
Midrange Driver: 5" (130mm) CMMD
High-Frequency Driver: 1" (25mm) CMMD
Dimensions
(H x W x D): 37" x 9-13/16" x 13-1/8" (90.0cm x 22.0cm x 32.0cm)
Weight: 50.2 lb (22.8.5kg)

There is not that much of a physical diff between them. Just as long as you are happy moving them around.
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post #28 of 2345 Old 02-14-2007, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FelixM View Post

Folks,

Did anyone compare Beta 40 versus 50? I do not care so much about deep bass (I'll get subwoofer), but I'm a little concerned about size of 50's.

And did anyone tried to bi-amp them? I'm planning to get Denon 1907 or similar, that can be used as 5.1 with bi-amping on front. Is it gonna give me better sound?

Or if anyone know where I can listen them in San Francisco Bay Area, I'll appreciate an advice. [Crappy] Infinity site only gives me Fry's Electronics as their dealer

See below and thread "Inifinty speakers and bang for your buck " (this is not mispelled copied the thread title).

Here is a selected comment from that thread by plhart which convinced me to get the 40's over the 50's:

"Smaller bass drivers are inherently less sensitive than bass drivers which have larger piston areas. So if you're comparing a Beta 40 at ~89dB/1 watt/meter to a Beta 50 which is ~90.5dB/1 watt/1meter what you'll have in the Beta 50 is a speaker which will play 1.5dB louder for a 1 watt input and will also go about 5 Hz deeper in bass before it rolls off.

The Beta 40 is much preferred by the Europeans who typically have smaller listening rooms than their American counterparts because the bass from the dual 6.5" drivers is smooth and blends more seemlessly into the midrange.

The Beta 50 on the other hand measured flat in the bass (versus the midrange and treble) in the Harman 4pi anechoic chamber but that was with the Beta 50 being virtually suspended in air. Put the Beta 50s in a larger, typical American listening space and you'll be able to basically get as much bass as you'll ever need just be the adjusting the distance from the side and rear walls.

Most times Europeans find this quantity of available bass to be overkill for both their listening tastes and their rooms. Personally, I would rather not listen to and know that the bass is being generated by the speaker. I'd rather listen to the music, not a side effect of the speaker. That why I would go with Beta 40s and a really tight sub like the CSW10 (properly RABOSed for the room/listening position). "



Who is plhart? see this comment from him about the Beta series:

"Interesting comments on the Beta series guys. I designed the entire series with the exception of the C250 and ES250 which was done by Brian C.

The Beta series was basically finished in November 2003. The speakers are made in Harman's Tijuana facility using a European hard vinyl that was originally employed on the Harman-Europe (since closed down) designed Alpha series.

All speakers in the series are of medium-high sensitivity which means for a 2.83 volt input they'll output an average of between 87.5dB for the least efficient Beta 10 to 90.5dB for the Beta 50.

All Beta speakers are rated at 8 ohms but the two three-ways, the 40s and the 50s get down to 4 ohms between 150-300Hz. By edict, no current Harman, JBL, Infinity or Revel speakers can measure below 4 ohms as was often the case with the Infinities in the past.

Many models of the new lower cost Revel series are close clones to the Beta speakers with different, non-CMMD drivers. Even the crossover boards in certain models are the same but with slightly different value components which better match the characteristics of the Revel drivers. Note however that there are a couple of Revel models which have no Beta equivalent and vice versa.

The Revel B12 is a CSW10 with a black painted cone and a different grille. This sub was the the best I've yet designed. It'll hit 104.5 dB at 1 meter at full output and was the source of much investigation after I left Harman because in many situations it could outperform, sound quality-wise, the big $4000 Revel 15" sub with passive.

All Beta speakers went through Harman's double-blind listening Multi Channel Listening Lab and beat out each of four competitive models (selected by Infinity sales) in its price point. They went up against B&Ws, Def Tech, Bostons, Polks and I believe (in a couple of instances) Klipsch.

Hope this helps. I'll be happy to answer questions. "
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbehrman View Post

See below and thread "Inifinty speakers and bang for your buck " (this is not mispelled copied the thread title).

Here is a selected comment from that thread by plhart which convinced me to get the 40's over the 50's:

"Smaller bass drivers are inherently less sensitive than bass drivers which have larger piston areas. So if you're comparing a Beta 40 at ~89dB/1 watt/meter to a Beta 50 which is ~90.5dB/1 watt/1meter what you'll have in the Beta 50 is a speaker which will play 1.5dB louder for a 1 watt input and will also go about 5 Hz deeper in bass before it rolls off.

The Beta 40 is much preferred by the Europeans who typically have smaller listening rooms than their American counterparts because the bass from the dual 6.5" drivers is smooth and blends more seemlessly into the midrange.

The Beta 50 on the other hand measured flat in the bass (versus the midrange and treble) in the Harman 4pi anechoic chamber but that was with the Beta 50 being virtually suspended in air. Put the Beta 50s in a larger, typical American listening space and you'll be able to basically get as much bass as you'll ever need just be the adjusting the distance from the side and rear walls.

Most times Europeans find this quantity of available bass to be overkill for both their listening tastes and their rooms. Personally, I would rather not listen to and know that the bass is being generated by the speaker. I'd rather listen to the music, not a side effect of the speaker. That why I would go with Beta 40s and a really tight sub like the CSW10 (properly RABOSed for the room/listening position). "



Who is plhart? see this comment from him about the Beta series:

"Interesting comments on the Beta series guys. I designed the entire series with the exception of the C250 and ES250 which was done by Brian C.

The Beta series was basically finished in November 2003. The speakers are made in Harman's Tijuana facility using a European hard vinyl that was originally employed on the Harman-Europe (since closed down) designed Alpha series.

All speakers in the series are of medium-high sensitivity which means for a 2.83 volt input they'll output an average of between 87.5dB for the least efficient Beta 10 to 90.5dB for the Beta 50.

All Beta speakers are rated at 8 ohms but the two three-ways, the 40s and the 50s get down to 4 ohms between 150-300Hz. By edict, no current Harman, JBL, Infinity or Revel speakers can measure below 4 ohms as was often the case with the Infinities in the past.

Many models of the new lower cost Revel series are close clones to the Beta speakers with different, non-CMMD drivers. Even the crossover boards in certain models are the same but with slightly different value components which better match the characteristics of the Revel drivers. Note however that there are a couple of Revel models which have no Beta equivalent and vice versa.

The Revel B12 is a CSW10 with a black painted cone and a different grille. This sub was the the best I've yet designed. It'll hit 104.5 dB at 1 meter at full output and was the source of much investigation after I left Harman because in many situations it could outperform, sound quality-wise, the big $4000 Revel 15" sub with passive.

All Beta speakers went through Harman's double-blind listening Multi Channel Listening Lab and beat out each of four competitive models (selected by Infinity sales) in its price point. They went up against B&Ws, Def Tech, Bostons, Polks and I believe (in a couple of instances) Klipsch.

Hope this helps. I'll be happy to answer questions. "

I think it all depends on your listening tastes. I'm not European, I currently have a small listening room, and I LOVE the bass I get from the Beta 50s-it sounds very true to my ear and doesn't sound like an artifact of the speaker to me whatsoever. When I upgrade my sub shortly, however, I won't be going with the CSW10. A lot of reading/online research has told me that a Hsu or SVS will blow the CSW10 out of the proverbial sonic water for accurate, powerful, tight bass--and in the $400-500 neighborhood!
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post #30 of 2345 Old 02-14-2007, 11:21 AM
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Other than the constant Hsu and SVS ads in these forums, what reading and research do you have that says they will outperform the CSW-10. Just so you know, I do not own one. I just get tired of the constant SVS and Hsu promotion. I just Googled the CSW-10 and could find no information comparing these products. I am curious what information you have. Please provide links.
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