Tired of subwoofers - it is time for a bookshelf speaker test - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 483 Old 04-25-2007, 06:02 AM
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Is there much of a market where you are? I'm not familiar with Erie.

Are the Paradigm dealers really just custom guys with no showroom or what?

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #152 of 483 Old 04-25-2007, 06:08 AM
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Maybe there are some local folks that would be willing to let you borrow their speakers for the test....
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post #153 of 483 Old 04-25-2007, 09:56 AM
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Craig....

There is a Paradigm dealer here just a couple blocks down from me.

Here is their webpage..

http://www.audiocraft.com/

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post #154 of 483 Old 04-25-2007, 02:51 PM
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Wow, this thread is amazing. Thanks for doing this Craig, what a valuable service for those of us on the hunt.

Been thinking about getting a mixed SCS and SBS SVS system for my new home (and new 104" HT setup), these tests have me thinking I'll go SCS all the way around coupled with my PB12+/2 sub. Maybe trade up to a pair of L/R MTS if/when they arrive.

Good stuff though, thanks again.
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post #155 of 483 Old 04-25-2007, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am going to be in a pretty major city market next week, and will be auditioning the PSB Image B-25 ($479 retail, $375 quoted price) and The Paradigm Mini Monitor V.5 ($379 retail, $379 quoted price) ...

The "best" speaker between the 2 will be finding a new home here for the next round.
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post #156 of 483 Old 04-25-2007, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To complete the second round, I just ordered a pair of NHT Classic 2's in white. They retail for $600 per pair, with a street price of $480.

This is over the $300-$400 limit that was the goal, but it will be interesting to discover what, if anything, the extra $$$$ gets.
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post #157 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 06:18 AM
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Mr. Ashman will be proud of you.

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post #158 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

To complete the second round, I just ordered a pair of NHT Classic 2's in white. They retail for $600 per pair, with a street price of $480.

This is over the $300-$400 limit that was the goal, but it will be interesting to discover what, if anything, the extra $$$$ gets.

craigsub,

What do you do with all the "inferior" loudspeakers that you buy and audition? Do you give them to relatives you dislike? Once I determine one speaker sounds better than another I cannot listen to the lesser speaker again.

When you have a primo system that you normally listen to why spend money on
loudspeakers that won't even come close? Are you a collector of speakers?

I can admit the I have 5 pairs of loudspeakers still in the box, but I'm trying to deal with my demons. I'm glad to see someone else who buys speakers the he does not need.
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post #159 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Jack ... One pair of "dream" speakers for me was the original NHT 3.3's from the early 90's. I am looking forward to the Classic 2's... If you see where I ordered a pair of the Classic 4's and the matching center ... you get the idea.

Sterankman - None of the speakers is "bad", and we have several different listening areas. I occasionally sell speakers at a small loss - it is always nice to help a guy get a great system for a bargain after a review is done.
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post #160 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

To complete the second round, I just ordered a pair of NHT Classic 2's in white.

Do you mind reviewing what's in round 2? xls and classic 2's?
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post #161 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

Do you mind reviewing what's in round 2? xls and classic 2's?

Round 2 will feature 3 of the better "Brick and Mortar" speakers. Monday, I will be auditioning the Paradigm Mini Monitor V.5 vs. the PSB Image B-25.

The "winner" will be coming home with me, and will then be compared to the NHT Classic 2's and the SVS SC-01's.

Street pricing on all range from $348 to about $480.
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post #162 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 09:41 AM
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This is an incredible "service" you are doing. With all the arguing that goes on in these forums, you actually are doing what a lot of us only wish we had time and resources to do, compare head-to-head speakers and subs with an impartial attitude. I'm REALLY interested in how the B&M brands fare against the value ID brands. This should be VERY interesting.

Way to go.

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post #163 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 10:40 AM
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What about the Aperion products? I have never personally heard them, they have gotten some good reviews, but are rarely mentioned in comparison discussions with other ID's such as SVS and Ascend. They provide free shipping both ways as part of their 30 day audition guarantee...maybe include them? no financial cost...
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post #164 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Bchav - When it comes to the ID companies, I will e-mail them ahead of time to see if they want to participate in this process, and if they are opposed, I won't include them. I asked Aperion 2 years ago about being involved in these types of tests, and they declined.

This is not a knock on them, as they have a specific sales model and also get some decent play in magazines like Stereophile.
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post #165 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 03:16 PM
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Thats too bad, because they may be doing themselves a disservice if the product is competitive...wonder if they have changed their mind?
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post #166 of 483 Old 04-26-2007, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bchav View Post

Thats too bad, because they may be doing themselves a disservice if the product is competitive...wonder if they have changed their mind?

Yes, it almost makes like a company like that is scared of the competition, by not wanting to participate in a speaker bake-off.

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post #167 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I sent a message to Aperion to see if they wish to participate. As always, I will purchase the speakers in question. The Intimus 532-LR looks like a natural @ $360 including delivery.
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post #168 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 07:19 AM
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Quote:


To complete the second round, I just ordered a pair of NHT Classic 2's in white. They retail for $600 per pair, with a street price of $480.

Do you have the address on that "street"? At 20% off I might like to get a pair in for my own shoot-out. The NHT rep around here doesn't seem interested in helping me out with accomidation pricing, unlike most of the others.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #169 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 07:20 AM
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No way of knowing, but perhaps Aperion feels there is more to lose than gain by participating. I can't criticize a company for doing what it feels is in it's best interest. However, I'm disappointed by their decision. Aperion is a name I've heard a lot, but a brand I've not heard a lot about.

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post #170 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 10:53 AM
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It's too bad there aren't any speakers with more constant directivity speakers in this comparison. All of the speakers auditioned and planned for audition have the same basic, and to me unacceptable, flaw: they don't maintain a constant power response through the crossover.

I think it would be worth bringing in something like a KEF iQ3 or admittedly more expensive bookshelves (really good design and engineering costs money, unfortunately) such as the Tannoy Eyris DC, SP Technology Timepiece 2.1, Gradient Prelude, Danley Sound Labs SH-50, etc. Or maybe one of the "pro audio" monitors that employs a waveguide to maintain constant treble dispersion.

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post #171 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 12:23 PM
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craigsub,

I noticed in your reviews you are not using a control speaker to judge the contestants against. Did you not think a control speaker the be useful in judging the others? I think it would be useful to include a high quality bookshelf loudspeaker in amongst the contestants for you blind listening tests.

Good luck with your test, I look forward to reading them.
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post #172 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I sent a message to Aperion to see if they wish to participate. As always, I will purchase the speakers in question. The Intimus 532-LR looks like a natural @ $360 including delivery.

If you are going to purchase and keep (or give away, sell, etc.) those Aperion speakers and not return it to them, then why would they need to give you permission to participate in the speaker test?

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temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.

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post #173 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If you are going to purchase and keep (or give away, sell, etc.) those Aperion speakers and not return it to them, then why would they need to give you permission to participate in the speaker test?

I don't "need" to get permission. I ask if the company involved wants to be involved - the dealers from whom I am purchasing the speakers both know about this test process, and even asked for a link to the thread.

I think it is the "right" thing to do.
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post #174 of 483 Old 04-27-2007, 09:10 PM
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And you should hear the 850 signatures ...


You betcha...

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post #175 of 483 Old 04-28-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I don't "need" to get permission. I ask if the company involved wants to be involved - the dealers from whom I am purchasing the speakers both know about this test process, and even asked for a link to the thread.

I think it is the "right" thing to do.

I see, you want them to be informed and agree to participate in the speaker test.

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post #176 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 01:24 AM
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I think it is quite gentlemanly of craigsub to inform the speaker company of his intent to compare the speakers and publicly report the findings/results. It isn't an ethical necessity, IMO, but I do think it's a nice thing to do.

I also understand a company's reluctance to be included, even if they have carefully compared their speakers to the competition and think their offering is superior or at least competitive. In other words, I DON'T think that declining to be included in a comparison is necessarily indicative of a lack of confidence in their product. Everyone hears differently, performance of one speaker versus another can depend heavily on the material used for comparison, it's VERY hard to setup a fair test (though craigsub has done a very nice job in his comparisons), and I think as readers of these kinds of comparisons, it's all too easy for us to "overreact" to what we read. A company may wish to avoid the drama of such comparisons and just keep selling speakers at the rate they are used to.

I'll second the suggestion to try some Kef iQ3s. They can be purchased online for about $320 and I thought they sounded pretty good when I heard them.

-Max
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post #177 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Beowolf and Maxcooper ... You both pretty much nailed it, with Max giving good detail. Aperion has several positive reviews in their arsenal, and are almost a hybrid between the ID and the B&M model. I like how they run the operation, and have no issue with their electing to not participate.

The Kef's are a speaker I am looking to for round 3 ... So far, we have the SVS SC-01's both garnering praise from 16 listeners.

For a reminder, this is not going to be a "which is better" points system. It is going to hopefully help people narrow the search.
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post #178 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 08:06 AM
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Craig how about the Athena Technologies AS-B2.2 retail $249.00 pair, the reviews say there as good or better then speakers two to three times their price
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post #179 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxcooper View Post

I think it is quite gentlemanly of craigsub to inform the speaker company of his intent to compare the speakers and publicly report the findings/results. It isn't an ethical necessity, IMO, but I do think it's a nice thing to do.

I also understand a company's reluctance to be included, even if they have carefully compared their speakers to the competition and think their offering is superior or at least competitive. In other words, I DON'T think that declining to be included in a comparison is necessarily indicative of a lack of confidence in their product. Everyone hears differently, performance of one speaker versus another can depend heavily on the material used for comparison, it's VERY hard to setup a fair test (though craigsub has done a very nice job in his comparisons), and I think as readers of these kinds of comparisons, it's all too easy for us to "overreact" to what we read. A company may wish to avoid the drama of such comparisons and just keep selling speakers at the rate they are used to.

I'll second the suggestion to try some Kef iQ3s. They can be purchased online for about $320 and I thought they sounded pretty good when I heard them.

-Max

I see where you're getting at. But let me play Devil's Advocate for a minute. You know how some people have BYOS (Bring Your Own Speakers) "parties" and they audition each others speakers at one person's location using the same variables (same receiver, speaker wires, room, acoustics, etc.)? Do you think it's an ethical or moral obligation or "nice thing to do" to ask those speakers' manufacturers if they'd like to participate in that speaker test? Again, I'm not arguing, but just presenting another view.

You're right that just b/c a speaker manufacturer declines the invitation doesn't make their product inferior or show a lack of confidence. But to many, it does indicate that stigma. In fact, a speaker test is probably the best way to compare speakers since all other variables that I mentioned above are equal.

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post #180 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Beowolf and Maxcooper ... You both pretty much nailed it, with Max giving good detail. Aperion has several positive reviews in their arsenal, and are almost a hybrid between the ID and the B&M model. I like how they run the operation, and have no issue with their electing to not participate.

...

You might have already mentioned this, but I don't remember. When you do a speaker test, do you test them right out of the box, or do you break them all in for 20-50 (or even 100) hours?

Procrastination is the thief of time.
-- Edward Young

They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
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You shouldn't mix meditation with management.
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