Tired of subwoofers - it is time for a bookshelf speaker test - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf7 View Post

Do you think it's an ethical or moral obligation or "nice thing to do" to ask those speakers' manufacturers if they'd like to participate in that speaker test? Again, I'm not arguing, but just presenting another view.

I can answer for Max. Definately he does not think one has a moral or ethical obligation to have a "speaker party" or listening test. Check out this picture from his house earlier this year ....
LL
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post #182 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 09:22 AM
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I think the main point for Craig is he is a business man and while he does this for fun he has a great respect for all these companies and as such prefers to get their permission to maintain good relations with all. You never know when a business opportunity will present itself.

Also - I suspect - as a businessman - he understands there are potentially legal issues involved as rediculous as that may seem.

Lets face it - Craig's opinion carrys a huge amount of weight around here so much so that people have accused him of being a shill for certain companies.
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post #183 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUCHO View Post

I think the main point for Craig is he is a business man and while he does this for fun he has a great respect for all these companies and as such prefers to get their permission to maintain good relations with all. You never know when a business opportunity will present itself.

Lets face it - Craig's opinion carrys a huge amount of weight around here so much so that people have accused him of being a shill for certain companies.

I suspect Craig sees himself developing into a "gentleman audio reviewer".
Sort of like a "gentleman farmer". Of course I could be wrong.
Something he does for fun, maybe a little money, but mostly personal enjoyment. This is a good thing - everybody should have one or more hobbies. With that goal in mind it would be silly to upset a company who might one day send him a free demo/review sample. . .
While Craig's opinion might "carry a huge amount of weight around here", just remember he is one person, whos opinion may or may not agree with yours. Just like any other reviewer. . .

This sound like a really fun comparison. Likely a big service to the readers of this forum. I have nothing but respect and encouragement for what Craig is doing. I look forward to reading his opinions.

I'd like to see Craig include one of the low end B&W speakers in the comparison. A few months ago I purchased B&W 600 for a computer/office speaker. They were the best I could find at the time for my tastes that were less than $400 and less than 12" tall. But since b&w is apparently going to replace these soon it would perhaps not make sense to include them.

Have fun Craig, and good luck in whatever you hope to achieve. It is a noble and difficult task you have chosen to take on. Cheers. David.

Everything I say here is my opinion. It is not my employers opinion, it is not my wife's opinion, it is not my neighbors opinion, it is My Opinion.
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post #184 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 05:16 PM
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please bring back the Paradigm Mini ..please

super dirty , super clean , pow
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post #185 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

In this case, 2-4 sales people at the store are participating in the blind test - and our voting wil decide which I buy.

I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that you bring your level-adjusting switch with you on the road when you travel ...
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post #186 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

I guess we shouldn't be too surprised that you bring your level-adjusting switch with you on the road when you travel ...

I need to get my wife to take some pics of this unit. The folks at Axiom offered to build an extra for me when they were making some for their traveling demos - for example - trade shows and consumer shows.

It looks a lot like a lunch box when closed, and is very easy to take with me.

Here are the PSB's (That is a 6.5 inch bass driver):



And the Paradigms ... also a 6.5 inch bass driver:

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post #187 of 483 Old 04-29-2007, 06:16 PM
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I'm looking forward to see how the Paradigm "Mini" and PSB B-25s do in relation to the other speakers. Both of these models would be on my short list for a B&M purchase. In fact, I had the bigger brother, the Titan Monitor v.5 in my home - but, stumbled on a new pair of v.4 Monitor 5s for a steal of a price. Needless to say, I picked them up and the "S" stands just like are pictured with the Minis above. The stands are very solid for the $120 price tag - plus, one of the tubes acts as a wire channel to hide your speaker wire while the other tube can be filled with sand or kitty litter - once you've taken careful precautions to apply caulking to the lower part of the tube so the sand doesn't leak out.
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post #188 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 12:53 AM
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craig did you ever decide if you were going to audition some of the mission bookshelves? tsto i believe is sort of near you in PA (jenkintown) so would probably be a 1 day ship timeframe. also the only U.S. retailer.

love to hear your opinions on the m31 or the elegante bookshelves.

http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...7/Catalog/1076
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post #189 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by adamanteus View Post

craig did you ever decide if you were going to audition some of the mission bookshelves? tsto i believe is sort of near you in PA (jenkintown) so would probably be a 1 day ship timeframe. also the only U.S. retailer.

love to hear your opinions on the m31 or the elegante bookshelves.

http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...7/Catalog/1076

They are in future plans - I almost ordered a pair last week, but this opportunity to audition two of the better known and respected B&M companies from Canada plus the pair of NHT Classic 2's was too good to miss.

Add a pair of B&W 601's to the mix, and those 4 companies represent the entry level high end, in regards to sales volume and width of distribution, quite well.

For "round 3", the B&W's, the Missions, and possibly a pair of Energies are looking good ... and maybe a pair of the Rocket "X" series.
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post #190 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 07:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamanteus View Post

craig did you ever decide if you were going to audition some of the mission bookshelves? tsto i believe is sort of near you in PA (jenkintown) so would probably be a 1 day ship timeframe. also the only U.S. retailer.

love to hear your opinions on the m31 or the elegante bookshelves.

http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.sto...7/Catalog/1076

FYI Jenkintown is near Philadelphia and Erie is closer to Pittsburgh.
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post #191 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerdyone View Post

FYI Jenkintown is near Philadelphia and Erie is closer to Pittsburgh.

For those not familiar, Phila. and Pitts. are about 6 hrs. apart driving time.

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post #192 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUCHO View Post

I think the main point for Craig is he is a business man and while he does this for fun he has a great respect for all these companies and as such prefers to get their permission to maintain good relations with all. You never know when a business opportunity will present itself.

Also - I suspect - as a businessman - he understands there are potentially legal issues involved as rediculous as that may seem.

Lets face it - Craig's opinion carrys a huge amount of weight around here so much so that people have accused him of being a shill for certain companies.

I see; as a businessman, he has other interests to consider. I personally would still be a little suspicious of a company that declines to participate in a review when their products won't be returned.

If craigsub keeps on reviewing more speakers and gets away from reviewing subs, he'll have to change his username to craigspkr.

Procrastination is the thief of time.
-- Edward Young

They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.

-- Benjamin Franklin

You shouldn't mix meditation with management.
The mind gets too empty.

-- Scott Adams, "Dilbert"
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post #193 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nerdyone View Post

FYI Jenkintown is near Philadelphia and Erie is closer to Pittsburgh.


cool but, surely a 1-2 day ship via UPS.
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post #194 of 483 Old 04-30-2007, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is where blind testing gets to be a lot of fun. The PSB Image B-25's were picked 5 to 0 over the Paradigm Mini-monitors. It came down to the PSB's being more musical in every sense - both were very good, but even the Paradigm sales guys preferred the PSB's.

The NHT's arrived today, too - when I get back on Wednsday, it will be back to "work".

And yes, the B-25's are coming home with me.
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post #195 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 04:39 AM
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Interesting. I wish I could've been there to see you talk a bunch of salesman into blind testing the products they sell. Amazing!

Jack
 

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post #196 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Interesting. I wish I could've been there to see you talk a bunch of salesman into blind testing the products they sell. Amazing!

Why? Many of us do it quite often.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #197 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Rijax View Post

Interesting. I wish I could've been there to see you talk a bunch of salesman into blind testing the products they sell. Amazing!

Jack - It was pretty easy: I stopped in both stores, and the guys all like each other. They are competitors, but are friendly competitors. As one said, their real competition is things like cars, watches and boats.

The Paradigm guys were not even all that suprised at the results. They asked me to stop back in a month or so to check out the B&W DM 601 S3 (they were out of stock) - they sell both products. The "street price" on the Paradigms is $325 per pair - they will knock off a few $$$ when you ask in person. The "street price" on the PSB's is $375, and the B&W's is $425 "street price".

I use the street price because most ID companies have a fairly firm price, especially in the under $500 market - where most B&M outlets have a 10-20% "play" in the pricing.

It was a great time with these guys - as I am also a car guy, we all had fun talking about the sales experience.
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post #198 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Speaking of the business stuff, I just saw some prototypes of a speaker design I have been working on with some really smart guys. They are looking really good - and the possibility that I will actually eventually be in the speaker business just took a jump up.

Until I saw the prototype, this was strictly a "who knows, this could be fun" project ... now it is more feasible than ever.

I am posting this as it seems like the right thing to do to always be up front about things. Production, if it happens, is still several months off.
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post #199 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 02:46 PM
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So you have a bit of a metal/metalized thing going in the new additions, though not entirely

First round -

Ascend 170 - 1" soft dome / 6.5" polygel
SVS SC-01 - 1" ClearSilk / 2 x 5.25" polypro

Added for the second round -

NHT Classic 2 - 1" aluminum / 6.5" polypro
PSB Image B-25 - 1" aluminum / 6.5" metalized polypro
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post #200 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 04:27 PM
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They asked me to stop back in a month or so to check out the B&W DM 601 S3 (they were out of stock)

IN A MONTH OR SO THE NEW ONES WILL BE IN STOCK, you could be one of the first here to review them.

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(But not today....)

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post #201 of 483 Old 05-01-2007, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Jack - It was pretty easy: I stopped in both stores, and the guys all like each other. They are competitors, but are friendly competitors. As one said, their real competition is things like cars, watches and boats.

Sounds like a really fun time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigsub View Post

Speaking of the business stuff, I just saw some prototypes of a speaker design I have been working on with some really smart guys. They are looking really good - and the possibility that I will actually eventually be in the speaker business just took a jump up.

Well THAT'S an interesting development. I'll be eager to hear more about this.

Jack
 

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post #202 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Both the PSB's and NHT's are here and hooked up, going through the standard several day burn in. For kicks, I had the Ascend's and SVS hooked up for a while, too, and was flipping between the four of them.

All four are quite good, even with no special care taken in positioning/toe-in.
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post #203 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 07:04 PM
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So the Paradigm Mini's weren't worthy...

super dirty , super clean , pow
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post #204 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf7 View Post

For those not familiar, Phila. and Pitts. are about 6 hrs. apart driving time.

Gosh, who's drivin'? Gramma? In her Rambler?

I can make that drive in a little over 4 hours, usually. It depends on traffic on the PA Turnpike. Of course, my Valentine One is on the whole way.

Craig (John)

Lombardi said it:
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post #205 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So the Paradigm Mini's weren't worthy...

They are very good - just not quite as good as the PSB's.
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post #206 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

They are very good - just not quite as good as the PSB's.

are psb's more expensive than the minis?

super dirty , super clean , pow
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post #207 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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are psb's more expensive than the minis?

Retail ... $80 more, street price, $50 more.
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post #208 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 10:14 PM
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Those PSBs may be a nice sound upgrade forom my bedroom Cantons ... if i can find a used pair for around 300

Beech veneer, silver-metallic grill, thats the right combo.



Heres my current Cantons:
LL
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post #209 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Gosh, who's drivin'? Gramma? In her Rambler?

I can make that drive in a little over 4 hours, usually. It depends on traffic on the PA Turnpike. Of course, my Valentine One is on the whole way.

Craig (John)

Those 2 cities are over 300 mi. apart. I figured avg. speed of 60 MPH., 45 min. of rest stops/breaks, and 15 min. of local driving (e.g. getting out of Phila. and into Pitts. or vice versa).

Procrastination is the thief of time.
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The mind gets too empty.

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post #210 of 483 Old 05-02-2007, 10:53 PM
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Valentine-1= avg speed of about 80 mph
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