Tweeter closing down all California stores! - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

And thereby equally skewing your perception of the speaker.

Perhaps B&Mers should get a liquor license for their shops--it would equalize the alcohol equation during in-home auditions and put them on equal footing.



We heard this BS 10 years ago, and so far, only the ill-equipped/funded orgs have gone by the wayside. Good dealers think this is good news.



In comparison to what? That's the issue. If you only want to compare what you have to ID stuff, fine. The best time to have an in-home audition is only after the choice has been whittled down at the store--the home test is the final stage to see if they work OK in your environment (although that's kinda silly too, given the fact that your room may not always be the same--or even in the same home, but whatever. Gotta give people what they think they need I suppose).



The only thing that's crystal clear is that all ID brands are put on the same level, even though in no other category of consumer product does that happen. With a broad brush, some here assume (or assert, which is even funnier) that because a brand is ID, the value is superior. This is, without exception, lacking a consistent comparison across all price points. I think what dealers are upset about is the fact that these assertions are made from a seemingly-authoritative perspective, giving credence to the theory without anything other than net hysteria to back it up.



Blah blah blah. Did you cut and paste that phrase from a post in 1998?



Yes--Dealers need to address the net, but the best way is to still draw people into the store and give the customer a contact in-store. Do not confuse ID brand strategy with what B&Mers need to do to satisfy the PERCEPTION that some consumers have that internet purchases are superior.



Thanks to the power of AVS brainwashing, you're a fanboi and haven't even heard your speakers yet. Ca-lassic. And, speaks to the point some of us have been making.



I'm glad a debate online from people you don't know (and probably never will) has influenced your listening decision. I'd stop typing now lest you be branded a lemming my friend.

Somehow, even if you don't like what you hear, I doubt we'll hear anything but superlatives.


Thanks for taking the time to address each of my points. We could bat the ball back on forth on this until blue in the face, so I will leave things as they are.

However you didn't address the one thing I was really really looking for an answer to.

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So I ask my question again to a different person, what would you have done differently in my shoes?

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post #392 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

And here lies the great divide: that set of speakers you take home is going to cost you, if you decide to keep them, much more than if they were sold direct. Why? Middle men.

Non-sequitur. The identical models aren't up for consideration, so your example only resides in theory-ville.

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The middle men have to make a living, too. I just won't pay for it. There's enough choice among ID gear to keep me happy for some time, and it's growing year by year.

You got taken for a ride. Admit it. you fall victim to the fallacy that "middlemen" are the reason ID is cheaper, even though there is no direct comparison to a B&M brand--and if there is, it's usually derivative in nature or dangerously skirts the boundaries of patent infringement. Orb and AG spring to mind.

I shouldn't care--people who embrace marketing messages as their sole reality are who butters my bread.

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Classic example: Outlaw Audio developed their 950 with the help of Eastech and agreed to allow Eastech to sell it to others in order to recoup development costs. Outlaws' price: $899. Sherbourne's, Atlantic Technology etc's price: $1699. So let's say I could get 20% off with good negotiation skills, it was still $1300 compared to $899. Heck, the President of Outlaw (and Atlantic Technology) has his hands in both markets, and I suppose he's realized that the twains do not meet. For guys that need the help of a traditional store and install companies there's AT. For the guys who frequent these forums, there's Outlaw.

I think you mean ONLY example.

With speakers, the same design will rarely (if ever) be found direct vs. at a store. Most companies correctly know that proper representation of their product is a safeguard against selling directly to the end user so that the brand message can't be misrepresented at will.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #393 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bhull302 View Post

However you didn't address the one thing I was really really looking for an answer to.

Purchased a known quantity in product from a known dealer, authorized for mail order.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #394 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by droht View Post

As far as not packing them up to return them, I'm sure that is infinitely easier than taking them back to a B&M. Re-pack them and call UPS or FedX for a pick up, of drop them at one of their stores. All the return paperwork is done on line or via e-mail. Otherwise I have to come in to your store when you are open and maybe wait if you have a sucker...err customer...there. No thanks.

Seems like people from Blue States are used to voting for losers.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #395 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

I think you mean ONLY example.

Not the only one. Emotiva, Sherbourn and Sunfire all share the same design for their current processors and sell for something like $2k, $3k and $4k respectively.

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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

With speakers, the same design will rarely (if ever) be found direct vs. at a store. Most companies correctly know that proper representation of their product is a safeguard against selling directly to the end user so that the brand message can't be misrepresented at will.

So what? Are you saying that a website is not "proper representation?" That's a pretty fancy name for channel added cost - paid for by the end user.
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post #396 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by droht
As far as not packing them up to return them, I'm sure that is infinitely easier than taking them back to a B&M. Re-pack them and call UPS or FedX for a pick up, of drop them at one of their stores. All the return paperwork is done on line or via e-mail. Otherwise I have to come in to your store when you are open and maybe wait if you have a sucker...err customer...there. No thanks.

Well... I can understand why people like buying off the internet (I don't) , but, this is not one of the best reasons. Unless your job is smoking Crack Cocaine, then...err crack pipe.... smoke...Ah.
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post #397 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

Non-sequitur. The identical models aren't up for consideration, so your example only resides in theory-ville.

From the king of non-sequiturs and inanities.

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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

You got taken for a ride. Admit it. you fall victim to the fallacy that "middlemen" are the reason ID is cheaper, even though there is no direct comparison to a B&M brand--and if there is, it's usually derivative in nature or dangerously skirts the boundaries of patent infringement. Orb and AG spring to mind.

Victim? No, you're the victim of a big mark-up that lots of folks will no longer pay.

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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

I think you mean ONLY example.

Only doesn't mean it still isn't classic.

And the various incarnations of this platform:

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...ate_fap_t1.htm

is another CLASSIC example.

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.

Hometown team
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post #398 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by schticker View Post

Seems like people from Blue States are used to voting for losers.

You are implying that you voted for Bush (twice I am sure) and now are gloating about it? Does it really feel good to back the winner when the winner turns out the way he has? That says infinitely more about you Schtick than any smart alecky jibes about speakers possibly could. Now please, trim up that pornstache!
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post #399 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 07:13 PM
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Could we please keep politics out of this?
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post #400 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ericgl View Post

Could we please keep politics out of this?

Moving forward, I concur.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #401 of 401 Old 04-02-2007, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

From the king of non-sequiturs and inanities.

Difference is with me, it's clear when it's used for humor and emphasis rather than the building blocks of an argument.

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Victim? No, you're the victim of a big mark-up that lots of folks will no longer pay.

Just because you do not understand the requirements of running a business in this industry does not mean that everyone also does not. Big markups = lol.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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