Musically tuned Speakers-New Trend. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone actually listened to one of these new tuned, resonating, undamped speakers?

I counted at least 4 companies making newly designed models. Onkyo being the biggest.
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post #2 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 06:59 AM
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Spare me.

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post #3 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 06:59 AM
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The concept of a loudspeaker as an instrument is not new, but it is a flawed concept. An instrument produces sound, and resonance and harmonics are a significant part of that sound. Speakers reproduce sound, and they should be dead as a brick as not to add anything to the source signal.

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post #4 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 07:51 AM
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oh, those are the companies that are too lazy to make a good cabinet for their speakers.
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post #5 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega View Post

oh, those are the companies that are too lazy to make a good cabinet for their speakers.

Sarcasm alert!

They're not lazy. They're just ignoring physics.

Or, they're lazy.

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post #6 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 08:24 AM
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Less respectable version of "voiced".

Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world.
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post #7 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I dunno,

It looks like a trend to me.

Bosendorfer $9000 to $20,000

Micropure Kotaro $3100

Ocellia $to be determined

Onkyo guitar speaker $2000

Didn't Harbeth do a speaker like this?

That ain't chump change friends. I think these folks could easily make an innert/dead box for a lot less money. There appears to be a great deal of thought and tuning involved in the cabinet bracing and materials.

Listening to a Bosendorfer piano VS a Steinway is night and day. They are both pianos and they both have hammers hitting strings to generate sound.
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post #8 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:


There appears to be a great deal of thought and tuning involved in the cabinet bracing and materials.

No, there certainly is no intelligent thought involved. There is a great deal of preying on stupidity and ignorance and milking people for their money.

Quote:


Listening to a Bosendorfer piano VS a Steinway is night and day. They are both pianos and they both have hammers hitting strings to generate sound.

That's because they are instruments used to MAKE sound. Speakers are not instruments, they are tools to accurately reproduce a sonic event.

Resonating speaker cabinets as if they were an instrument has always been a completely ridiculous idea, and continues to be a load of horse manure. No competent engineer would ever put their name to such an inane and fundamentally flawed design theory because it completely eschews any hope of accuracy or quality.

Why would you want your speaker making everything have the resonances of a violin or a piano?

Trend or not, it's stupid.

American Idol is also a trend. The Backstreet Boys and the Spice Girls were a trend. Do you also want all your music to sound like that? Gwen Stefani is a trend. And this idea is also BANANAS.

Stupid.
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post #9 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Now Chris,

People said the same thing about Tube amps a few years ago. Look at them now.
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post #10 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 12:21 PM
 
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It's not comparable to tubes at all.

It is comparable to a reverb filter though.

Do do you you want want all all that that resonance resonance in in your your system system??
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post #11 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

Sarcasm alert!

They're not lazy. They're just ignoring physics.

Or, they're lazy.

Their actually being cheap,their not willing to spend the extra dough,to build a good speaker,and if they skimped on the cabinet,chances are they skipped some other important areas of the design to.
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post #12 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 01:04 PM
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I'm not advocating this design, but they're using the cabinet as a tuned radiator for low frequencies, something like a port/PR/horn etc. It's not like they're tuning the cabinet to sound like a guitar or a piano.
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post #13 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Now Chris,

People said the same thing about Tube amps a few years ago. Look at them now.

The tube amplifiers distortions seems to be pleasing and a sign of "high-end" to some. I wonder when a DSP program called "tube" will be added to a receiver.
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post #14 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allsop4now View Post

The tube amplifiers distortions seems to be pleasing and a sign of "high-end" to some. I wonder when a DSP program called "tube" will be added to a receiver.

Actually you can get that on most computer-based recording systems. Of course, there you use it to simulate a guitar amp or an old mixing console so there's a good reason for it.
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post #15 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the comparison to tube amps is actually perfect to those of us who have been following high end audio for the last 25 years.

The Lamm springs to mind. Cary audio. Audio Research. Wavac. BAT. etc etc.

Class A solid state. You weren't even in the game in the early 80's if you weren't class A. Tubes? I seen a few on my grandma's Victrola. Ya got ta be crazy to make an amp out a them!

"Tube amps? Bah, what a mockery of distortion and poor engineering. Simply cannot sound good."

Look at tubes now. Even the Ipod can be tubed! How ironic is that??????

How can any of you bash a new concept if you haven't heard it?

Why would Onkyo, a rather large company, waste development dollars on a bad concept?
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post #16 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

I dunno,

It looks like a trend to me.

Bosendorfer $9000 to $20,000

Micropure Kotaro $3100

Ocellia $to be determined

Onkyo guitar speaker $2000

Didn't Harbeth do a speaker like this?

Well, I have heard 2 from this list and they sound as one would expect, euphonically but obviously colored.

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post #17 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 03:00 PM
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I was under the impression that many Totems were designed similarly.
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post #18 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Why would Onkyo, a rather large company, waste development dollars on a bad concept?

Because people are willing to part with their money for it, and companies exploit that?

On this very forum (ironic, isn't it?) there is a new thread about bi-wiring loudspeakers, and there are some (well, mostly one) proselyting the benefits of bi-wiring. Utter non-sense, but still this question regularly pop up due in no little part to some fraudulent manufacturers marketing and some audio magazines not calling bi-wire for what it is.
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post #19 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Allsop,

I know all about biwire, triwire, bi amp, tri amp, active speakers, active crossovers, Nordost, Kimber Kable, Beryllium, Diamond, kevlar, Western Electric, MDF, etc, etc.

Even if Onkyo sells out the guitar speaker, it will be a loss for them, I'm thinking.


Kal,

Care to elaborate? Euphonically colored is just what the tube amp naysayers used to say.
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post #20 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Care to elaborate? Euphonically colored is just what the tube amp naysayers used to say.

Not really since they were manufacturer's demos in unfamiliar surroundings. However, neither inspired any interest in hearing more since they imparted distinct characteristics which were uniform, regardless of the musical source. And tubes were used in one of the demos.

BTW, I have nothing against tubes.

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post #21 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 03:31 PM
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This anti-tube dislike is nonsense,if you like real music with color and body to it and a realistic sence of flow,tubes are essential somewhere in the chain if not everywhere.
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post #22 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post

They're not lazy. They're just ignoring physics.

They're not ignoring physics, but not marketing!

John
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post #23 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Euphonically colored is just what the tube amp naysayers used to say.

I like tubes and I still say they're euphonic. I like them at times, but then just want to get back to reality.

John
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post #24 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Ah, see

Ta Da bomber is a perfect candidate for one of the new musical speaker designs.


Open minded folks embrace color, flow, body, euphonia. Accuracy does not always equal enjoyment.

Do any of you enjoy music more after a glass of red wine? Is your hearing more accurate after a glass?
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post #25 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

I like tubes and I still say they're euphonic. I like them at times, but then just want to get back to reality.

And solid state coldness stiffness,2 deminsionality,and over etched and shrill sound are reality?
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post #26 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Ah, see

Ta Da bomber is a perfect candidate for one of the new musical speaker designs.


Open minded folks embrace color, flow, body, euphonia. Accuracy does not always equal enjoyment.

Do any of you enjoy music more after a glass of red wine? Is your hearing more accurate after a glass?

Da'Bomb thinks accuracy doesent have to sound harsh,but hey thats my thoughs others mileage may vary.
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post #27 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty/twenty View Post

Ah, see

Ta Da bomber is a perfect candidate for one of the new musical speaker designs.


Open minded folks embrace color, flow, body, euphonia. Accuracy does not always equal enjoyment.

Do any of you enjoy music more after a glass of red wine? Is your hearing more accurate after a glass?

And what new musical designs are you talking about be specific and what speaker do you own?
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post #28 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:50 PM
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i've never heard this type of speaker but wasnt there a time when people thought an horseless carrige (a car) would NEVER replace a horse driven carrrige?

OP some people just dont like change until they are the last to buy it.

"Guess what? I've got a fever...and the only prescription is more cowbell!" -Bruce Dickinson, famed producer
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post #29 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 04:55 PM
 
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Open minded folks embrace color, flow, body, euphonia.

Could you explain what you mean by:
"color"
"flow"
"body"
"euphonia"

and how that relates to audio reproduction?

For instance, the term color naturally relates to visual perception, flow may relate to fluids, body to physical sensation, and euphonia to dyslexia. None of these things seem to relate in any way to auditory perception. But I may be mistaken, I guess I've been listening with my eyes for years?

Maybe it's salespeople who are listening with their eyes on your wallet...
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post #30 of 166 Old 03-24-2007, 05:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ficosucks View Post

i've never heard this type of speaker but wasnt there a time when people thought an horseless carrige (a car) would NEVER replace a horse driven carrrige?

OP some people just dont like change until they are the last to buy it.

No, some people just don't understand physics.

These designs are inherently high in distortion. That's the whole point. It runs contrary to the basic goal of audio reproduction which is to minimize distortion and increase accuracy. If you want distortion and one-note sound, buy a crappy boombox with boomy bass, or go buy Bose.
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